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Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae

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  Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-06-14 14:06 -0700
    Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 15:30 -0700
      Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-15 10:48 -0700
        Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae beeflo <beeflobill@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 13:49 -0700
          Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-15 22:31 -0700
          Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-16 04:42 -0400
        Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 23:04 -0400
          Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-15 22:55 -0700
            Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 03:39 -0400
            Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-16 20:43 +0100
              Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 17:47 -0400
                Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-16 16:41 -0700
          Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-06-16 07:22 -0700
            Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-16 20:19 -0700
        Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-16 04:42 -0400
    Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2015-06-14 20:15 -0300
      Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 20:34 -0700
        Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2015-06-15 07:32 -0300
          Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-15 22:29 -0700
            Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2015-06-16 07:48 -0300
    Re: Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-13 11:01 -0700

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#39744 — Number 5 Lives again - sorry it is Forth and Philae

The batteries are up again and data sent to planet Earth. 
Forth is active again, and it seems that VFX is not as bad as some people here try to make it.
SUCCESS at last - and back to live.

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#39749

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 2:06:30 PM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
> The batteries are up again and data sent to planet Earth. 
> Forth is active again, and it seems that VFX is not as bad as some people here try to make it.
> SUCCESS at last - and back to live.

I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people of Earth on it --- first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun! (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you won't get burned up).

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#39763

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people 
> of Earth on it --- 

Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
series?

> first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun! 
> (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you 
> won't get burned up).

If there is a place in which it is appropriate to advertise in 
a message base for Forth, it is here.  I didn't consider that to
be an advertisement though.

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#39766

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 11:48:33 AM UTC-6, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people 
> > of Earth on it --- 
> 
> Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
> series?
> 

Yeah, all the people with useless jobs were tricked to get onto the starship and it crash landed it on some remote and unfashionable planet.  Unfortunately, that was prehistoric earth, and humans were descended from the survivors.

Author Dent was pretty disappointed when he figured that out.

> > first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun! 
> > (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you 
> > won't get burned up).
> 
> If there is a place in which it is appropriate to advertise in 
> a message base for Forth, it is here.  I didn't consider that to
> be an advertisement though.

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#39776

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 1:49:07 PM UTC-7, beeflo wrote:
> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 11:48:33 AM UTC-6, Jason Damisch wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people 
> > > of Earth on it --- 
> > 
> > Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
> > series?
> > 
> 
> Yeah, all the people with useless jobs were tricked to get onto the starship and it crash landed it on some remote and unfashionable planet.  Unfortunately, that was prehistoric earth, and humans were descended from the survivors.
> 
> Author Dent was pretty disappointed when he figured that out.
> 
> > > first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun! 
> > > (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you 
> > > won't get burned up).
> > 
> > If there is a place in which it is appropriate to advertise in 
> > a message base for Forth, it is here.  I didn't consider that to
> > be an advertisement though.

Yes --- that is where my joke came from --- all of my jokes are original and good (unfortunately, the original ones aren't good and the good ones aren't original).

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#39782

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 16:49:05 -0400, beeflo <beeflobill@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 11:48:33 AM UTC-6, Jason Damisch wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:

>> > I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people
>> > of Earth on it ---
>>
>> Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
>> series?
>>
>
> Yeah, all the people with useless jobs were tricked to get onto the  
> starship and it crash landed it on some remote and unfashionable  
> planet.  Unfortunately, that was prehistoric earth, and humans were  
> descended from the survivors.
>
> Author Dent was pretty disappointed when he figured that out.
>

Wasn't the plot to the Battlestar Galactica TV series?


Rod Pemberton

-- 
It's time to put an end to gun violence!
Use a hammer ...

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#39773

On 6/15/2015 1:48 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people
>> of Earth on it ---
>
> Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
> series?
>
>> first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun!
>> (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you
>> won't get burned up).
>
> If there is a place in which it is appropriate to advertise in
> a message base for Forth, it is here.  I didn't consider that to
> be an advertisement though.

Hugh has it in for Juergen it seems.  I believe he has some connection 
with MPE and Hugh has decided it is evil somehow.  So now Juergen gets 
dissed periodically just for being a salesman whether he is or not.  I 
do know he is a big promoter of Forth.  But then who isn't?  ;)

-- 

Rick

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#39777

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 8:04:03 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:
> On 6/15/2015 1:48 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people
> >> of Earth on it ---
> >
> > Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
> > series?
> >
> >> first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun!
> >> (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you
> >> won't get burned up).
> >
> > If there is a place in which it is appropriate to advertise in
> > a message base for Forth, it is here.  I didn't consider that to
> > be an advertisement though.
> 
> Hugh has it in for Juergen it seems.  I believe he has some connection 
> with MPE and Hugh has decided it is evil somehow.  So now Juergen gets 
> dissed periodically just for being a salesman whether he is or not.  I 
> do know he is a big promoter of Forth.  But then who isn't?  ;)

Read this page: http://www.mpeforth.com/about.htm
"Juergen is our marketing and sales person promoting MPE Forth and MPE Consultancy Services."

Selling a specific vendor's ANS-Forth compiler is not the same as promoting Forth.

Up until quite recently, Elizabeth Rather was pretending that Forth Inc. worked for NASA. She would show private emails from Leon Wagner on comp.lang.forth in which he discussed Forth Inc.'s work with NASA. All of this was fake. Nobody from NASA claimed that Forth Inc. was working for them. It was just a marketing gimmick designed to impress potential customers so they would buy SwiftForth --- after they eventually find out that Forth Inc. doesn't work for NASA, it is too late for them to get their money back. The whole idea is absurd --- at the same time that Elizabeth Rather was doing this, she was also on comp.lang.forth teaching novices that PAD is the standard for temporary-storage --- I'll bet that impressed the NASA engineers! Now Juergen is doing the same thing, pretending that VFX was used in this Philae spaceship project. All sales-people are full of grandiose but fake claims about the product they are selling...

Eventually Elizabeth Rather will die (maybe the next assassination attempt will involve a hit-man rather than a hit-bimbo). I predict that Juergan Pintaske will become the new "leading expert" of ANS-Forth and Forth-200x --- he will smoothly take over the helm and do all the same things that Elizabeth Rather is currently doing.

I remember that John Passaniti relentlessly flamed Jeff Fox and tormented him on comp.lang.forth. After Jeff Fox died, John Passaniti stopped showing up on comp.lang.forth. Obviously, Passaniti had not interest in Forth other than tormenting Jeff Fox (also, Passaniti never posted any Forth code, but only posted Perl code; afaik, Perl is the only programming language he knows). Why would John Passaniti be interested in tormenting Jeff Fox? I think that Elizabeth Rather was paying him to do this. After Jeff Fox died, the job was no longer needed and so she stopped paying him and he left. If this is true, and I think that it is, then Elizabeth Rather effectively murdered Jeff Fox --- all that torment on comp.lang.forth was a major contributing factor in his declining health.

Passaniti was blatantly homosexual and pretty much every post he made on comp.lang.forth contained unsubtle sexual references. The following post is his very last (note the "massive throbbing" part). He mostly focused on attacking Jeff Fox, but he would also attack me as well (attacking me apparently wasn't important enough aspect of his job for Elizabeth Rather to continue paying him though).

On Saturday, October 6, 2012 at 9:24:21 AM UTC-7, John Passaniti wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:34:54 PM UTC-4, Brad Eckert wrote:
> > Yes, ANS is 1990s Forth encased in amber. Maybe 
> > you can do better. You should write a specification 
> > first and present it to c.l.f for review.
> 
> That specification has been in comp.lang.forth for months now, distributed over many messages.  To understand his Straight Forth, you only have to understand one thing:
> 
> All of ANS Forth beyond the simplest primitives is wrong and he will do it better in Straight Forth.  You don't know /how/ he will do it better, but details like that don't matter.  The mere fact that Hugh's massive throbbing intellect says he will do better is all you need to know.  For now, just assume ANS Forth is wrong, download his "novice" package (because that's what you are), and see how Forth is supposed to be done by a master.  Asking the question "What Would Hugh Do" is the first step towards accelerating your career and coming to a deeper understanding of Forth.

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#39780

On 6/16/2015 1:55 AM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:

<a bunch of stuff that was rude, mean and just plain stupid, all of it 
snipped>

Where is that silly boy who was saying Hugh was worth listening to? 
Yes, Hugh knows something about Forth, but I disagree that he is worth 
listening to.  There is just far too much ranting and vitriol.  I'm 
sorry I woke him up.  I guess I forgot that there are a number of people 
here Hugh has a phobia about.  Some I don't think we've even heard from 
for months.  Yet Hugh has to invoke their name... Beetlejuice, 
Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice!

-- 

Rick

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#39788

on 16/06/2015 06:55:43, Paranoid Hugh from Massive Throbbing Spaceship
Loonjuice wrote:

> 
> Read this page: http://www.mpeforth.com/about.htm"Juergen is our
> marketing and sales person promoting MPE Forth and MPE Cons ultancy
> Services."
> 
> Selling a specific vendor's ANS-Forth compiler is not the same as
> promoting Forth.

Ah, how interesting. 

> 
> Up until quite recently, Elizabeth Rather was pretending that Forth
> Inc. wo rked for NASA. She would show private emails from Leon Wagner
> on comp.lang. forth in which he discussed Forth Inc.'s work with NASA.
> All of this was fa ke. Nobody from NASA claimed that Forth Inc. was
> working for them. It was j ust a marketing gimmick designed to impress
> potential customers so they wou ld buy SwiftForth --- after they
> eventually find out that Forth Inc. doesn' t work for NASA, it is too
> late for them to get their money back. The whole idea is absurd --- at
> the same time that Elizabeth Rather was doing this, she was also on
> comp.lang.forth teaching novices that PAD is the standard f or
> temporary-storage --- I'll bet that impressed the NASA engineers! Now
> Ju ergen is doing the same thing, pretending that VFX was used in this
> Philae spaceship project. All sales-people are full of grandiose but
> fake claims a bout the product they are selling...

Ah, I think I'm getting your point... Elizabeth Rather is a poor
programmer, who uses private emails to sell software to NASA, that
resulted in the claim that Philae uses VFX.

> 
> Eventually Elizabeth Rather will die (maybe the next assassination
> attempt will involve a hit-man rather than a hit-bimbo). I predict
> that Juergan Pin taske will become the new "leading expert" of
> ANS-Forth and Forth-200x --- he will smoothly take over the helm and
> do all the same things that Elizabe th Rather is currently doing.

Yes, I see now. Ms Rather is also going to be assassinated.

> 
> I remember that John Passaniti relentlessly flamed Jeff Fox and
> tormented h im on comp.lang.forth. After Jeff Fox died, John Passaniti
> stopped showing up on comp.lang.forth. Obviously, Passaniti had not
> interest in Forth other than tormenting Jeff Fox (also, Passaniti
> never posted any Forth code, but only posted Perl code; afaik, Perl is
> the only programming language he kno ws). Why would John Passaniti be
> interested in tormenting Jeff Fox? I think that Elizabeth Rather was
> paying him to do this. After Jeff Fox died, the job was no longer
> needed and so she stopped paying him and he left. If this is true, and
> I think that it is, then Elizabeth Rather effectively murdere d Jeff
> Fox --- all that torment on comp.lang.forth was a major contributing
> factor in his declining health.

That's an interesting additional detail. Ms Rather also commissioned a
murder! Before she gets assassinated, which seems to make some sense.

> 
> Passaniti was blatantly homosexual and pretty much every post he made
> on co mp.lang.forth contained unsubtle sexual references. The
> following post is h is very last (note the "massive throbbing" part).

Goodness, that's incriminating. Ms Rather paid the writer of a post that
mentioned massive throbbings to harrass and kill Jeff Fox on the
internet, prior to Juergen getting her position after she's assassinated.
Interesting.

Hugh, do you realise there's a name for this theory? 

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#39792

On 6/16/2015 3:43 PM, Alex McDonald wrote:
> on 16/06/2015 06:55:43, Paranoid Hugh from Massive Throbbing Spaceship
> Loonjuice wrote:
>
>>
>> Read this page: http://www.mpeforth.com/about.htm"Juergen is our
>> marketing and sales person promoting MPE Forth and MPE Cons ultancy
>> Services."
>>
>> Selling a specific vendor's ANS-Forth compiler is not the same as
>> promoting Forth.
>
> Ah, how interesting.
>
>>
>> Up until quite recently, Elizabeth Rather was pretending that Forth
>> Inc. wo rked for NASA. She would show private emails from Leon Wagner
>> on comp.lang. forth in which he discussed Forth Inc.'s work with NASA.
>> All of this was fa ke. Nobody from NASA claimed that Forth Inc. was
>> working for them. It was j ust a marketing gimmick designed to impress
>> potential customers so they wou ld buy SwiftForth --- after they
>> eventually find out that Forth Inc. doesn' t work for NASA, it is too
>> late for them to get their money back. The whole idea is absurd --- at
>> the same time that Elizabeth Rather was doing this, she was also on
>> comp.lang.forth teaching novices that PAD is the standard f or
>> temporary-storage --- I'll bet that impressed the NASA engineers! Now
>> Ju ergen is doing the same thing, pretending that VFX was used in this
>> Philae spaceship project. All sales-people are full of grandiose but
>> fake claims a bout the product they are selling...
>
> Ah, I think I'm getting your point... Elizabeth Rather is a poor
> programmer, who uses private emails to sell software to NASA, that
> resulted in the claim that Philae uses VFX.
>
>>
>> Eventually Elizabeth Rather will die (maybe the next assassination
>> attempt will involve a hit-man rather than a hit-bimbo). I predict
>> that Juergan Pin taske will become the new "leading expert" of
>> ANS-Forth and Forth-200x --- he will smoothly take over the helm and
>> do all the same things that Elizabe th Rather is currently doing.
>
> Yes, I see now. Ms Rather is also going to be assassinated.
>
>>
>> I remember that John Passaniti relentlessly flamed Jeff Fox and
>> tormented h im on comp.lang.forth. After Jeff Fox died, John Passaniti
>> stopped showing up on comp.lang.forth. Obviously, Passaniti had not
>> interest in Forth other than tormenting Jeff Fox (also, Passaniti
>> never posted any Forth code, but only posted Perl code; afaik, Perl is
>> the only programming language he kno ws). Why would John Passaniti be
>> interested in tormenting Jeff Fox? I think that Elizabeth Rather was
>> paying him to do this. After Jeff Fox died, the job was no longer
>> needed and so she stopped paying him and he left. If this is true, and
>> I think that it is, then Elizabeth Rather effectively murdere d Jeff
>> Fox --- all that torment on comp.lang.forth was a major contributing
>> factor in his declining health.
>
> That's an interesting additional detail. Ms Rather also commissioned a
> murder! Before she gets assassinated, which seems to make some sense.
>
>>
>> Passaniti was blatantly homosexual and pretty much every post he made
>> on co mp.lang.forth contained unsubtle sexual references. The
>> following post is h is very last (note the "massive throbbing" part).
>
> Goodness, that's incriminating. Ms Rather paid the writer of a post that
> mentioned massive throbbings to harrass and kill Jeff Fox on the
> internet, prior to Juergen getting her position after she's assassinated.
> Interesting.
>
> Hugh, do you realise there's a name for this theory?

This newsgroup is starting to read like Breaking Bad.

-- 

Rick

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#39793

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 2:47:11 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote:

> This newsgroup is starting to read like Breaking Bad.

What do you expect with Usenet, or any message board
for that matter?  It's an open party and it's been
going on for a long time. :^)

Jason

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#39785

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 4:04:03 AM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
> On 6/15/2015 1:48 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people
> >> of Earth on it ---
> >
> > Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
> > series?
> >
> >> first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun!
> >> (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you
> >> won't get burned up).
> >
> > If there is a place in which it is appropriate to advertise in
> > a message base for Forth, it is here.  I didn't consider that to
> > be an advertisement though.
> 
> Hugh has it in for Juergen it seems.  I believe he has some connection 
> with MPE and Hugh has decided it is evil somehow.  So now Juergen gets 
> dissed periodically just for being a salesman whether he is or not.  I 
> do know he is a big promoter of Forth.  But then who isn't?  ;)
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick

Rick, the world is simple. Hugh has a mental deficiency. There are a lot of those around - undetected and dangerous - until they cause harm to other people around them. 
That he knows how to write Forth does not cure it nor balance it. My next activity in this respect is planned already.
The preliminary title: H A T E - Hugh Aguilars Total Excrements

By the way, one issue he cannot grasp as of his mental defect is the fact that he will be on the same spaceship. He is either a part sales man - otherwise he cannot sell his product or programming - or he sells himself on a monthly basis - others call it salary. How he succeeds to get an order every month and keeps away from those people what type of personality he is - is an achievement already. He must be a brilliant salesman - and ashamed of admitting it.

I assume the relevant company he works for has erased all work ethics they might have adhered to in the past. Does anybody know which company this is?

Every time he generates such excrements in the direction of people I just imagine we all the attacked stand around him have as well a big relief - in his direction, and this image always makes me smile and compensates for any possible grief. 
There is a brown alternative - but we keep this for later. We still have to learn how to compile it into a big application ...

How an adult person can behave against people he does not even know, has never met is beyond me.

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#39797

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 7:22:28 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 4:04:03 AM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
> > On 6/15/2015 1:48 PM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people
> > >> of Earth on it ---
> > >
> > > Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
> > > series?
> > >
> > >> first spaceship ever to land on the surface of the sun!
> > >> (don't worry Juergen; the landing will be at night so you
> > >> won't get burned up).
> > >
> > > If there is a place in which it is appropriate to advertise in
> > > a message base for Forth, it is here.  I didn't consider that to
> > > be an advertisement though.
> > 
> > Hugh has it in for Juergen it seems.  I believe he has some connection 
> > with MPE and Hugh has decided it is evil somehow.  So now Juergen gets 
> > dissed periodically just for being a salesman whether he is or not.  I 
> > do know he is a big promoter of Forth.  But then who isn't?  ;)
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Rick
> 
> Rick, the world is simple. Hugh has a mental deficiency. There are a lot of those around - undetected and dangerous - until they cause harm to other people around them. 
> That he knows how to write Forth does not cure it nor balance it. My next activity in this respect is planned already.
> The preliminary title: H A T E - Hugh Aguilars Total Excrements
> 
> By the way, one issue he cannot grasp as of his mental defect is the fact that he will be on the same spaceship. He is either a part sales man - otherwise he cannot sell his product or programming - or he sells himself on a monthly basis - others call it salary. How he succeeds to get an order every month and keeps away from those people what type of personality he is - is an achievement already. He must be a brilliant salesman - and ashamed of admitting it.
> 
> I assume the relevant company he works for has erased all work ethics they might have adhered to in the past. Does anybody know which company this is?
> 
> Every time he generates such excrements in the direction of people I just imagine we all the attacked stand around him have as well a big relief - in his direction, and this image always makes me smile and compensates for any possible grief. 
> There is a brown alternative - but we keep this for later. We still have to learn how to compile it into a big application ...
> 
> How an adult person can behave against people he does not even know, has never met is beyond me.

IIRC, the following is the first thread in which I responded to Juergen. At this time, I didn't realize that he was a salesman for MPE and I thought that he was a novice Forth programmer, so I offered my typical advice to novices:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.lang.forth/juergen$20hugh%7Csort:date/comp.lang.forth/pYZEhsI08I8/-yhAUcCPoGsJ

On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 1:27:09 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Sunday, March 22, 2015 at 12:52:52 AM UTC, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > The beginner at learning Forth does benefit from having a small "word set" (your term) of high-level words, because that is what he is dealing with. For example, in my language I get rid of a lot of cruft such as DO loops (done better with BEGIN and locals) and TO (done better with !), and >R (done better with locals). Although I have some new features (lambda functions), I get rid of a lot of old features, so my language comes out smaller than ANS-Forth, and presumably easier to learn (DO loops are very difficult for beginners to grasp, especially if >R is also available as it clashes). I don't actually know "how many words" I have, as the language design is still in flux --- it is somewhat of a meaningless statistic anyway, as it is more important to keep the understandable words and get rid of the confusing words, than to worry about counting how many words there are.
> > 
> > The beginner at learning Forth mostly benefits from having code libraries available so he doesn't have to write everything from scratch. This is the point that I have made repeatedly, and which Elizabeth Rather is dead set against. The beginner needs to succeed at writing programs in order to learn anything and to be motivated to continue. All programs work with data, and that data has to be held in data-structures --- so the beginner (expert too), is hugely benefited from having general-purpose data-structures available that he can use. If the beginner is forced to write custom data-structures, he will get bogged down, and he will quit without having ever completed a single program --- this is primarily why nobody is learning Forth (all Forth programmers are over 40 years old, and there is no next generation) --- nobody really wants to spend time implementing self-balancing binary trees or hash tables or any other kinds of data-structures, as this is both difficult and boring, and it is really more a job for mathematicians than programmers (binary trees were studied as far back as the 19th century, at a time when being an expert on electricity primarily involved scuffing your boots on the rug and then zapping a cat in the nose with static-discharge).
> > 
> > I think that people who worry about the size of the word-set, are doomed to failure anyway. They believe that learning the language involves reading a reference manual and learning what each word does, and so they suppose that the fewer words they have to learn and the thinner the manual, the sooner they will finish. They are doomed! This is not how programming languages are learned! To learn how to program in a language, it is necessary to write programs in that language. It is best to start writing a program on day one, before you have learned hardly any of the words in the language. As you go, you will find that you need words to do something in your program, so you scan through the reference manual until you find something likely, and you use it. You get your program to work, and then you are happy because you have succeeded. Your program may be badly written though, so you rewrite it using your new knowledge and you do a better job. Write a lot of programs, and write increasingly difficult programs, and pretty soon it will become easy. Never "study" the language though --- this is boring and you will fall asleep --- even if you drink coffee to stay awake, you won't learn anything, and you won't be any closer to being capable of writing a program in the language than you were before you began studying.
> 
> A lot of wasted time here - for you to write and for all of us to read.
> 
> What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth 
> - this was the question. 
> 
> Do you have anything to contribute - otherwise stay out of my thread. 
> I will do what I think necessary anyway and it is a lot of fun 
> - except for answering postings like this.
> 
> If you know so well how and why it does not work - by definition you know the inverse, how it works ....

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#39781

On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 13:48:32 -0400, Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com>  
wrote:
> On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 3:30:08 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
>

>> I'd like to build a big spaceship and put all the sales-people
>> of Earth on it ---
>
> Didn't something like that happen in the Hitchikers Guide to
> the Galaxy series?

(since we are clearly off-topic)

What science fiction author didn't do that at some point?

Arthur C. Clarke, Robert Heinlein, Philip K. Dick, ...

Star Trek, Stargate Atlantis, Battlestar Galactica TV series, ...

To a lesser extent, as background in Blade Runner, Total Recall,
Aliens, Red Dwarf, ...


Rod Pemberton

-- 
It's time to put an end to gun violence!
Use a hammer ...

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#39754

 On 14 Jun 15 at group /comp/lang/forth in article 03bde4d2-47af-4663-bee0-9968f8d0ad23@googlegroups.com
 <epldfpga@aol.com>  (JUERGEN)  wrote:

>The batteries are up again and data sent to planet Earth.

That`s good.

>Forth is active again,

Also good.

>and it seems that VFX is not as bad as some
>people here try to make it. SUCCESS at last - and back to live.

No its nothing to blame on VFC! They use LMI metacompiler... They told  
me, that they also bought a source license from LMI, because there was  
some trouble with VFX and MPE. Stephen should know more about it.

I gave them some consulting on metacompiling with the LMI RTX2000 and  
LMI.

Also some parts of my routines are now on Tschuri and in orbit around  
it.



Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

-- 
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit)      iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

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#39759

On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-7, Wolfgang Allinger wrote:
> On 14 Jun 15 at group /comp/lang/forth in article 03bde4d2-47af-4663-bee0-9968f8d0ad23@googlegroups.com
>  <epldfpga@aol.com>  (JUERGEN)  wrote:
> 
> >The batteries are up again and data sent to planet Earth.
> 
> That`s good.
> 
> >Forth is active again,
> 
> Also good.
> 
> >and it seems that VFX is not as bad as some
> >people here try to make it. SUCCESS at last - and back to live.
> 
> No its nothing to blame on VFC! They use LMI metacompiler... They told  
> me, that they also bought a source license from LMI, because there was  
> some trouble with VFX and MPE. Stephen should know more about it.
> 
> I gave them some consulting on metacompiling with the LMI RTX2000 and  
> LMI.
> 
> Also some parts of my routines are now on Tschuri and in orbit around  
> it.

This is all news to me. When I worked at Testra in the mid-1990s, they had the source-code for UR/Forth from LMI. I was told that they had to beg Ray Duncan for this, and he only gave it to them because they were long-term users of UR/Forth, and he made them sign a non-disclosure statement. I wasn't allowed to see the source-code because I hadn't signed the non-disclosure statement --- I was told that if I needed anything written they would do it for me --- I was actually able to write everything I needed myself though, as I had disassembled UR/Forth extensively on my own and knew how it worked internally.

I'm very surprised that anybody else has the source-code to UR/Forth, considering how Ray Duncan didn't want to give it out. I also was unaware that LMI had any involvement in the RTX2000. Was this UR/Forth running on the RTX2000, or a cross-compiler for the RTX2000 written in UR/Forth running on an x86 under MS-DOS?

Back in the early-1990s, UR/Forth was the primary professional Forth system available. There were other MS-DOS Forth systems such as Tom Almy's, but UR/Forth was the leading light of the era. There were a lot of cross-compilers sold by LMI for UR/Forth, but I never used any of them --- I wrote my own.

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#39760

 On 14 Jun 15 at group /comp/lang/forth in article 0da49147-1231-41d5-9564-0a32e569775d@googlegroups.com
 <hughaguilar96@gmail.com>   wrote:

>On Sunday, June 14, 2015 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-7, Wolfgang Allinger wrote:
>> On 14 Jun 15 at group /comp/lang/forth in article
>>  03bde4d2-47af-4663-bee0-9968f8d0ad23@googlegroups.com
>>  <epldfpga@aol.com>  (JUERGEN)  wrote:
>>
>>>The batteries are up again and data sent to planet Earth.
>>
>> That`s good.
>>
>>>Forth is active again,
>>
>> Also good.
>>
>>>and it seems that VFX is not as bad as some
>>>people here try to make it. SUCCESS at last - and back to live.
>>
>> No its nothing to blame on VFC! They use LMI metacompiler... They
>> told me, that they also bought a source license from LMI, because
>> there was some trouble with VFX and MPE. Stephen should know more
>> about it.
>>
>> I gave them some consulting on metacompiling with the LMI RTX2000
>> and LMI.
>>
>> Also some parts of my routines are now on Tschuri and in orbit
>> around it.

>This is all news to me.

There are more things between heaven and earth...

>When I worked at Testra in the mid-1990s, they
>had the source-code for UR/Forth from LMI.
>[...]
>he made them sign a non-disclosure statement.

I`m shure the DLR has signed a non disclosure agreement. AFAIR it was  
for UR-Forth and the RTX2000 MC.

I received about 95% of the UR/Forth, PC/Forth, the MC and RTX2000  
sources by Ray`s mistake. He managed it to copy it all to a 5,25" Floppy  
but labeled it as RTX2000 target. :] It wasn`t very well documented,  
more like a hack. Anyhow I found 2 or 3 bugs, which Ray always denied  
and told me, that I was not a good programmer :) Maybe, but on some  
places I was better than Ray :)  Q.E.D.

BTW Ray also send a very unpolite email to his German afiliate about my  
skills and would like that they give me my money back und kick me out as  
customer. He didn`t like me any more, because I insisted on a debugged  
product. Think he feels like a pissed king :)

I met him on 4 or 5 meetings in USA and Germany. The genius Ray managed  
to send me a copy of this email. That was a very interesting letter for  
me and my lawyer :) and makes a very interesting turn in my business  
with LMI.

>I'm very surprised that anybody else has the source-code to UR/Forth,
>considering how Ray Duncan didn't want to give it out.

Money makes the world go round :)

>I also was unaware that LMI had any involvement in the RTX2000. Was  
this UR/Forth running on the RTX2000, or a cross-compiler for the  
RTX2000 written in UR/Forth running on an x86 under MS-DOS?

MC incl. the targets look more to PC/Forth.
Anyhow, the target where very similar to the UR/Forth or the older PC/ 
Forth

>Back in the early-1990s, UR/Forth was the primary professional Forth
>system available.

But with a little unprofessional head, beginning in the mid-1980s with  
PC/Forth :)

At that time I worked for NDT, medical, aerospace, offshore, MIL...  
products running my own small consultant company and never was blamed  
for bad or untested SW. I shipped high quality uC developments.

I got 3 or 4 testifications by TÜV and Swiss Ex lab, without any  
interview or personal discussion I passed all tests without any failure.
That happened never before. Normaly 2 or 3 rounds with a lot of  
discussion. BTW this where a couple multi uC hard real time systems  
completely my design in HW and SW including the prototypes.

The only thing I had to alter once was a label for the mains internal  
connector from `~ ~` to L1 and N. The Swiss expert didn`t understand,  
that I was right and the German SCHUKO System has no fixed polarisation.  
Anyhow he was the god and I gave him his candy :)





Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

-- 
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit)      iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

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#39775

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 4:51:48 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Allinger wrote:
> On 14 Jun 15 at group /comp/lang/forth in article 0da49147-1231-41d5-9564-0a32e569775d@googlegroups.com
>  <hughaguilar96@gmail.com>   wrote:
> >When I worked at Testra in the mid-1990s, they
> >had the source-code for UR/Forth from LMI.
> >[...]
> >he made them sign a non-disclosure statement.
> 
> I`m shure the DLR has signed a non disclosure agreement. AFAIR it was  
> for UR-Forth and the RTX2000 MC.
> 
> I received about 95% of the UR/Forth, PC/Forth, the MC and RTX2000  
> sources by Ray`s mistake. He managed it to copy it all to a 5,25" Floppy  
> but labeled it as RTX2000 target. :] It wasn`t very well documented,  
> more like a hack. Anyhow I found 2 or 3 bugs, which Ray always denied  
> and told me, that I was not a good programmer :) Maybe, but on some  
> places I was better than Ray :)  Q.E.D.

I found a bug in 16-bit UR/Forth that I bought. The word HEADER (which is like my :NAME in the novice-package) would use memory in the dictionary past what was already being used (by WORD). This worked because normally that memory was unused and so corrupting it didn't matter (it was the memory that the next ALLOT would use). This didn't work for me though, because I was using a string that didn't come from WORD but which I constructed myself in the string circular-buffer, and when HEADER used that memory it over-wrote another string. This was a difficult bug to track down because it wasn't noticed until that other string was used and its count-byte was corrupt. I told Ray Duncan about this and he said that he wouldn't fix the bug because HEADER was supposed to be an internal routine that users didn't know about, and HEADER worked fine in the context that it was being used (colon used it), and it would slow down compilation to move the string to somewhere else (the string circular-buffer) rather than just use it in place. I was very unimpressed! Later when I worked at Testra and they had the 32-bit version of UR/Forth, I found the same bug there, which was also unimpressive. I told John Hart about this, and he said that they had found the bug too and were aware of it, and that Ray Duncan had ignored their bug-report too.

I also found bugs in the software-floating-point (this was also before I worked at Testra and I was still using my own 16-bit UR/Forth). I wrote my own software-floating-point (I was very interested in floating-point in those days). I tried to sell this to Ray Duncan for $500 but he wouldn't take it --- he said I could have a free copy of the 32-bit UR/Forth, but I wouldn't take that, so I dropped the issue. Also, at about this time I bought a computer with an 80287 so I no longer needed software-floating-point anyway. I doubt that he ever fixed those bugs either, but I never checked in the 32-bit UR/Forth when I was working at Testra.

> BTW Ray also send a very unpolite email to his German afiliate about my  
> skills and would like that they give me my money back und kick me out as  
> customer. He didn`t like me any more, because I insisted on a debugged  
> product. Think he feels like a pissed king :)
> 
> I met him on 4 or 5 meetings in USA and Germany. The genius Ray managed  
> to send me a copy of this email. That was a very interesting letter for  
> me and my lawyer :) and makes a very interesting turn in my business  
> with LMI.

I never managed to piss off Ray Duncan, so I never saw his dark side. Nowadays I am less diplomatic and I piss off everybody...

You seem to have managed to piss off both Ray Duncan and Stephen Pelc --- good job! --- now you should strive to piss off Elizabeth Rather for a trifecta.

> >I'm very surprised that anybody else has the source-code to UR/Forth,
> >considering how Ray Duncan didn't want to give it out.
> 
> Money makes the world go round :)

The Hart brothers seemed to be friends with Ray Duncan. I assume they did have to pay him for the source-code though --- they didn't mention that part.

> At that time I worked for NDT, medical, aerospace, offshore, MIL...  
> products running my own small consultant company and never was blamed  
> for bad or untested SW. I shipped high quality uC developments.
> 
> I got 3 or 4 testifications by TÜV and Swiss Ex lab, without any  
> interview or personal discussion I passed all tests without any failure.
> That happened never before. Normaly 2 or 3 rounds with a lot of  
> discussion. BTW this where a couple multi uC hard real time systems  
> completely my design in HW and SW including the prototypes.
> 
> The only thing I had to alter once was a label for the mains internal  
> connector from `~ ~` to L1 and N. The Swiss expert didn`t understand,  
> that I was right and the German SCHUKO System has no fixed polarisation.  
> Anyhow he was the god and I gave him his candy :)

Apparently Europe is the same as America in that there are a lot of bureaucrats who act like little tin gods --- likely the same everywhere on Earth...

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#39784

 On 15 Jun 15 at group /comp/lang/forth in article 57527f65-853d-4c9b-82c6-460965928c7f@googlegroups.com
 <hughaguilar96@gmail.com>   wrote:

>On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 4:51:48 AM UTC-7, Wolfgang Allinger wrote:
>>  <hughaguilar96@gmail.com>   wrote:

>> I`m shure the DLR has signed a non disclosure agreement. AFAIR it
>> was for UR-Forth and the RTX2000 MC.
>> [...]
>> Anyhow I found 2 or 3 bugs, which Ray
>> always denied and told me, that I was not a good programmer :)
>> Maybe, but on some places I was better than Ray :)  Q.E.D.

>I found a bug in 16-bit UR/Forth that I bought. The word HEADER (which
>[...]
>supposed to be an internal routine that users didn't know about, and
>HEADER worked fine in the context that it was being used (colon used
>it), and it would slow down compilation to move the string to
>somewhere else (the string circular-buffer) rather than just use it in
>place. I was very unimpressed!
[...]
>had the 32-bit version of UR/Forth, I found the same bug there, which
>was also unimpressive. I told John Hart about this, and he said that
>they had found the bug too and were aware of it, and that Ray Duncan
>had ignored their bug-report too.

I should have known this behavior of Ray earlier. Anyhow it`s  
interesting, that Ray showed his bad attitude also to other customers.

But at this time there was no usenet and c.l.f. (for me?)

>I also found bugs in the software-floating-point (this was also before
>I worked at Testra and I was still using my own 16-bit UR/Forth).
>I wrote my own software-floating-point (I was very interested in
>floating-point in those days)
>.
I found also bugs in the ddiv (don`t remember the context and words) Ray
denied the error: nowbody else claimed this as bug! So he didn`t
understand mathmatics or bend it. I then used my own lib of div and
long-div, because that error was in the MC cores too.

Same story, other theater :(

>> BTW Ray also send a very unpolite email to his German afiliate about
>> [...]
>> out as customer. He didn`t like me any more, because I insisted on a
>> debugged product. Think he feels like a pissed king :)
>>
>> I met him on 4 or 5 meetings in USA and Germany. The genius Ray
>> managed to send me a copy of this email. That was a very interesting
>> letter for me and my lawyer :) and makes a very interesting turn in
>> my business with LMI.

>I never managed to piss off Ray Duncan, so I never saw his dark side.
>Nowadays I am less diplomatic and I piss off everybody...

I was always an engineer, never a diplomat. If looks, smells and taste  
like shit, I called it undoubtly shit. But there are a lot of insane  
people which sell it as gold.

>You seem to have managed to piss off both Ray Duncan and Stephen Pelc
>--- good job! --- now you should strive to piss off Elizabeth Rather
>for a trifecta.

Now, I never had any problems with Beth or Stephen. I met them two or  
three times on some congress at UofR and had a dinner with Beth.

My customer DLR for the Philae... searched for a RTX2000 development  
system.

I had a MC from LMI as a forerunner in Europe. My collegue won one of  
(3?) of that processors at UofR from HARRIS and it was the 1st in  
Europe. I think.

Even MIL didn`t now about that. Some time later I had a consultat job  
for Rheinmetall. The startet to ship a lot of RTX2000(MIL) with  
grenades. IIRC the Leopard tanks and M109(?) howizer shot them. Start  
acceleration over 30.000g !

So I and my 3 friends beside the german LMI representant and MPE where  
the only people in Europe knowing something about RTX2000. An we had the  
only and lonely chip :) Starting with a quick and dirty MC hack from  
LMI. IIRC after 3 weeks we held the 1st working board with this RTX2000,  
which I also presented at UofR the next year. Interesting days.

Back to the DLR: they also bought the LMI stuff. Later they want a  
source license for a RTX2000 system. MPE shoot their own feet by not  
responding to DLR.

But I had no problems when Stephen didn`t wan`t a good deal :)

IIRC the lander Philae has 9 RTX2000 rad hard on board. I forgot how  
many the Orbiter ROSETTA carried, may be some more.


>>>I'm very surprised that anybody else has the source-code to
>>>UR/Forth, considering how Ray Duncan didn't want to give it out.
>>
>> Money makes the world go round :)

>The Hart brothers seemed to be friends with Ray Duncan. I assume they
>did have to pay him for the source-code though --- they didn't mention
>that part.

I don`t know the Hart brothers or heard of them..

>> I got 3 or 4 testifications by TÜV and Swiss Ex lab, without any
>> [...]
>> Anyhow he was the god and I gave him his candy :)

>Apparently Europe is the same as America

All white americans have european anchestors :)

>in that there are a lot of bureaucrats who act like little tin gods ---
>likely the same everywhere on Earth...

ACK.



Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

-- 
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit)      iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

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