Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #38693 > unrolled thread

What happened to forthfreak.net ?

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth

Contents

  What happened to forthfreak.net ? Andreas Wagner <andreas.wagner@lowfatcomputing.org> - 2015-04-28 10:35 -0700
    Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 11:24 -0700
    Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 11:29 -0700
      Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-30 21:04 +0100
        Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 13:10 -0700
        Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 13:18 -0700
          Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-30 15:58 -0700
      Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-01 08:52 +0000
        Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-01 08:04 -0700
          Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-01 16:36 +0100
            Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-01 17:00 +0100
            Re: What happened to forthfreak.net ? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-01 20:11 -0700

#38693 — What happened to forthfreak.net ?

Is http://www.forthfreak.net/ offline forever? Has anyone archived a complete copy of its contents?

http://web.archive.org/web/*/forthfreak.net

Why is so much Forth programming content going 404?

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#38728

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 at 10:35:14 AM UTC-7, Andreas Wagner wrote:

> Why is so much Forth programming content going 404?

I expect that eventually most Forth websites will go down
the tubes.

When Elizebeth dies, and the rest of the old school Forth
programmers die, there won't be much of anybody left to
carry on the Forth way.   Will Forth die out?  Possibly.

Jason

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38729

The internet is not a collection of books.
Books can exist past the lifetime of the
people who created them. Can a website?

When you gain something, you loose something, 
when you loose something, you gain something.  
This is an immutable fact of the multiverse.
Not even the sun goddess or the storm god can
change this fact with all of their strength
behind them.

The price of having an internet in the form
that it exists now, is that knowledge becomes
more ephemeral.  A book may last 100 years, 
and does not need electricity to work.  A 
book written on hempen paper may last 1000 years.

A cuneiform tablet may last 4000 years buried
in the ground, or lost in some tomb.  A myth
passed down from one generation to the next
may last 10,000 years.  Genetic codes may
last billions of years.  Do you see a pattern
emerging?

Jason

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38730

on 30/04/2015 19:29:51, Jason Damisch wrote:
> The internet is not a collection of books.
> Books can exist past the lifetime of the
> people who created them. Can a website?

Yes; see apple.com for a recent example. But I suspect you want pickled
in aspic, frozen in time websites.

> 
> When you gain something, you loose something,
> when you loose something, you gain something.
> This is an immutable fact of the multiverse.
> Not even the sun goddess or the storm god can
> change this fact with all of their strength
> behind them.

Ferwhut? 

> 
> The price of having an internet in the form
> that it exists now, is that knowledge becomes
> more ephemeral.  

Do you mean dynamic? The internet is dynamic for sure, but the knowledge
it contains seems to be growing and has a distinct solidity and
increasing vintage to it. Ask any wikipedia editor.

> A book may last 100 years,
> and does not need electricity to work.  A
> book written on hempen paper may last 1000 years.

And? Knowledge implies it's the words on the page and not the paper that
has value.

> 
> A cuneiform tablet may last 4000 years buried
> in the ground, or lost in some tomb.  A myth
> passed down from one generation to the next
> may last 10,000 years.  Genetic codes may
> last billions of years.  

Unless you're still some kind of gloopy bacterial mat, there's been a
huge amount of change there.

> Do you see a pattern
> emerging?
> 

Yes. You've been on the Glühwein. You're having difficulty
differentiating between bit rot and knowledge preservation. Try
http://openpreservation.org/ as a sobering antidote.

> Jason
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38731

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:04:54 PM UTC-7, Alex McDonald wrote:

> Yes. You've been on the Glühwein. You're having difficulty
> differentiating between bit rot and knowledge preservation. Try
> http://openpreservation.org/ as a sobering antidote.

I tried searching for "Forth" on their website, and I didn't find
anything relating to Forth on that website.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38732

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:04:54 PM UTC-7, Alex McDonald wrote:

> Unless you're still some kind of gloopy bacterial mat,

Then there is Ye Olde

http://www.computerhistory.org/

Which actually has physical objects,
including hardware and Forth books.
I visited there once.  It was when they
had the working replica of a Babbage 
Engine.  Neato stuff!

Maybe in the far future our distant
descendants, who would have evolved 
into a new non-human species, could
go digging at the site of the Computer
History Museum to reconstruct an I.T.
infrastructure?

Jason

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38736

On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 1:18:27 PM UTC-7, Jason Damisch wrote:

> Neato stuff!

This may or may not pertain, but I found this
website today and just had to post it here
before I forgot.

** 80 words that starting with cruft **

https://mawords.com/starting-with/cruft

Here are some

cruftalicious
cruftbloaty
cruftdom
crufteriffic
cruftmongers
cruftology

take a look!

Jason

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38740

Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> writes:
>The internet is not a collection of books.
>Books can exist past the lifetime of the
>people who created them. Can a website?

Thanks to the waybackmachine and its supporters, it can.  Concerning
Forthfreak.net, it gives me

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://forthfreak.net

The last good version seems to be

http://web.archive.org/web/20140517100727/http://forthfreak.net/


>  A myth
>passed down from one generation to the next
>may last 10,000 years.  Genetic codes may
>last billions of years.

I have my doubts about both of these.  Do you have examples?

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2015: http://www.mpeforth.com/euroforth2015/euroforth2015.htm

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38747

On Friday, May 1, 2015 at 1:59:17 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote:
> ...
> I have my doubts about both of these.  Do you have examples?
> 
> - anton
> 

The "myth" of Atlantis dates back approximately 11,000 years.

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/atlantis/

There is evidence that certain genetically-related cellular
  characteristics date back two billion years.

"... The oldest eukaryotic cells are from deposits that
  are about 2 billion years old [...] For example, all
  eukaryotic cells share common traits such as the presence
  of a cytoskeleton, a nucleus, membrane-bound organelles,
  linear chromosomes, and endomembrane systems ..."

Source: Kaplan AP Biology, p. 78.

There are several sources stating that stories of post ice-
  age flooding from over 10,000 years ago by Native American
  oral tradition are supported by actual forensic evidence.

Mike B.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38748

on 01/05/2015 16:04:13, Michael Barry wrote:
> On Friday, May 1, 2015 at 1:59:17 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> ...
>> I have my doubts about both of these.  Do you have examples?
>>
>> - anton
>>
> 
> The "myth" of Atlantis dates back approximately 11,000 years.
> 
> http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/atlantis/

Your source doesn't say that. Plato appears to be the earliest source, so
about 2400 years.

> 
> There is evidence that certain genetically-related cellular
> characteristics date back two billion years.
> 
> "... The oldest eukaryotic cells are from deposits that
> are about 2 billion years old [...] For example, all
> eukaryotic cells share common traits such as the presence
> of a cytoskeleton, a nucleus, membrane-bound organelles,
> linear chromosomes, and endomembrane systems ..."
> 
> Source: Kaplan AP Biology, p. 78.

Those are phenotypes. The claim was for genotypes. 

> 
> There are several sources stating that stories of post ice-
> age flooding from over 10,000 years ago by Native American
> oral tradition are supported by actual forensic evidence.

Citations?

> 
> Mike B.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38749

on 01/05/2015 16:36:02, "Alex McDonald" wrote:
> on 01/05/2015 16:04:13, Michael Barry wrote:

>>
>> There is evidence that certain genetically-related cellular
>> characteristics date back two billion years.
>>
>> "... The oldest eukaryotic cells are from deposits that
>> are about 2 billion years old [...] For example, all
>> eukaryotic cells share common traits such as the presence
>> of a cytoskeleton, a nucleus, membrane-bound organelles,
>> linear chromosomes, and endomembrane systems ..."
>>
>> Source: Kaplan AP Biology, p. 78.
> 
> Those are phenotypes. The claim was for genotypes.

This took me back to my Uni years, and after a bit of digging through
pubmed, I found this; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10617571

The TATA box is an element of many genes that is thought to have been
present throughout evolution; it's "highly conserved". It is, however,
not a gene and is only 8 base pairs long. Even then it has some variation
in the form TATAxAxy where x is A or T and y is A or G. I can't find any
papers that show genes with anything like the same degree of conservation
over billions of years. Millions perhaps.

DNA is not a very good way of storing data through the aeons to be frank.
Copying errors will turn Forth into C in just a few generations.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#38761

On Friday, May 1, 2015 at 8:35:58 AM UTC-7, Alex McDonald wrote:
> 
> > http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/atlantis/
> 
> Your source doesn't say that. Plato appears to be the earliest source, so
> about 2400 years.
> 
The earliest surviving _written_ source.  Plato claimed that the story
  predated him by about 9000 years, but there may be insufficient
  corroborating evidence to support that claim, so I may have chosen
  a poor example.

> 
> > Source: Kaplan AP Biology, p. 78.
> 
> Those are phenotypes. The claim was for genotypes. 
> 
You got me again ... at least I think so.  My last biology class
  was over thirty years ago, and probably not advanced enough to
  address your concern properly anyway.

> 
> > 
> > There are several sources stating that stories of post ice-
> > age flooding from over 10,000 years ago by Native American
> > oral tradition are supported by actual forensic evidence.
> 
> Citations?
> 
It's been a couple of years since I devoted any browsing time to
  the subject, and I can't come up with my original links, since
  they died with my last desktop computer.

This one's not too bad, but certainly not as good as the ones I
  was studying at the time:

http://www.sott.net/article/250719-Ancient-flood-myths-may-have-a-basis-in-geological-history

All things considered, I would say that you schooled me rather
  handily, whether or not that was your intention.  Well done, sir!

Mike B.

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth

csiph-web