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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #37188 > unrolled thread

What is greenarrays up to lately?

Started bypolymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com>
First post2015-03-11 21:54 -0700
Last post2015-03-22 22:38 -0400
Articles 4 on this page of 64 — 14 participants

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  What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-11 21:54 -0700
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-15 14:08 -0700
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-15 19:10 -0700
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2015-03-16 21:58 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 12:19 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-17 13:24 -0700
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-16 18:03 +0000
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-16 19:42 +0000
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:26 -0400
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 11:24 +0000
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:12 -0400
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 23:03 +0000
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 21:14 -0400
                  Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-22 00:38 -0700
                    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 18:35 -0400
                      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 16:18 -0700
                        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 01:06 +0100
                          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:20 -0400
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-23 08:02 -0700
                              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 16:13 -0400
                  Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-08 09:51 +0100
                    Re: Offer + Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 00:47 -0400
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 16:24 -0400
        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 13:57 -0700
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 14:36 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-17 16:36 -0700
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 07:00 -0700
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-18 15:54 -0700
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 19:27 -0400
                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 16:44 -0700
                  Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 20:24 -0400
                    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:22 -0700
                      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-19 22:20 +0000
                        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 00:14 +0100
                          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:24 -0700
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-20 15:30 +0000
                              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:49 -0700
                                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 09:04 -0700
                              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 20:32 +0100
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:31 -0400
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-20 19:44 +0100
                        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:20 -0700
                      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:22 -0400
                        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 03:07 -0700
                          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-20 08:41 -0700
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:49 -0400
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-03-21 13:29 +0000
                          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 12:43 -0400
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-20 09:48 -0700
                    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:34 -0700
                      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-19 13:23 -0700
                        Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:51 -0400
                          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-20 21:05 -0700
                            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 04:04 -0400
                              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 09:16 -0700
                                Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-21 14:02 -0400
                      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 00:39 -0400
                  Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-19 07:15 -0700
            Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-18 00:09 -0700
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-18 00:23 -0700
              Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-03-19 23:40 +0000
          Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-17 23:16 -0400
      Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-18 11:05 +0000
    Re: What is greenarrays up to lately? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 22:38 -0400

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#37447

Fromlynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null>
Date2015-03-19 23:40 +0000
Message-ID<mefmpq$7p7$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#37374
In <141925bb-230a-4966-972d-ffbedaea8c47@googlegroups.com> Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> writes:

>Yes - the SoftSim GA144 simulator is written in ArrayForth.
>The link you gave :
>http://www.greenarraychips.com/home/support/download-02b.html
>is indeed a Windows binary, but when run it installs ArrayForth, and when you run the command file Okad.bat in the C:\GreenArrays\EVB001 folder you can run the simulator by typing 
>softsim 
>( in normal QWERTY mode, just type  softsim  and press the Enter key )

>The full source is there from block 148 - you can view it by typing 
>148 edit
>after which you escape the world of QWERTY and ASCII, and have to use the editor keypad commands. You can press the Escape key to exit the editor.

I'm not sure why folks are under the impression that everything
GreenArrays has on tap is "closed" source, so I'm glad you clarified
this.  The 'softsim' is even touched on in the arrayForth tutorial (pdf)
on the GA website, and therefore should have been hard for anyone to
miss.

With that said, I believe the only bits not available to the public is
the PC arrayForth kernel (which I'm assuming is pretty similar to the
versions of colorForth Jeff Fox passed around prior to the formation of
GA), the Win32 wrapper for the arrayForth executable, and the actual
Okad program Chuck uses to design his chips.  Everything else is there,
including the source to the chip ROM, as well as GA144 versions of
polyForth and eForth in their entirety.  And the licensing for much of
it--while not "liberal" in the BSD sense--is such that anyone who
intends to develop for GA chips using GA software won't find themselves
unreasonably restricted from doing what they please.  Personally, I
think GA supplies enough source and documentation to make the evaluation
board a pretty good value, even if it remains relatively expensive in an
absolute sense.

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#37369

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-17 23:16 -0400
Message-ID<meaqk8$vep$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#37356
On 3/17/2015 4:57 PM, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 8:24:15 PM UTC, rickman wrote:
>> On 3/15/2015 5:08 PM, JUERGEN wrote:
>>   > On Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 4:54:08 AM UTC, polymorph self wrote:
>>   >> Can anyone speak to some forth working in the field apps greenarrays
>> has achieved?
>>   >>
>>   >> What kind of projects are they up to?
>>   >
>>   > It seems, not much, as the whole clf community does not know anything
>> - and even Greenarrays does not care to give any comment.
>>   >
>>   > It seems that the core used in the Green Arrays Project is not
>> relevant to the whole CLF community.
>>   >
>>   > I can understand that the HW is too expensive to try it out,
>>   > and Greenarrays does not use any of the existing SW emulations either.
>>
>> The hardware is not expensive.  I have two or three GA144 chips on
>> boards from http://www.schmartboard.com/  I haven't fired them up for
>> lack of a truly interesting project...
>>
>>
>>   > But he existing Forth community does not take it serious, otherwise a
>> simlation in Forth of the core would have been done.
>>
>> I don't follow that reasoning.  Actually there have been several
>> simulators produced.  I would expect the one by GA themselves was done
>> in Forth although I don't know that for sure.  Someone else did one that
>> was better in some regard, but I don't recall what it was.  They did a
>> demo for the SVFIG monthly meeting once.  If you want to search through
>> their videos or maybe contact someone there they might be able to point
>> you to the right video.
>>
>>
>>   > The only guess I could have is that the military applications pay for
>> the salaries of the people involved.
>>
>> You don't need the military to pay salaries.  Last I heard no one takes
>> a salary...  Trust me, there are no military projects using the GA144.
>> GA as a company doesn't meet the minimum requirements for their devices
>> being used in a military project.
>>
>>
>>   > So part of the next generation star wars - or Mars?
>>   > Well just guessing - it seems too many NDAs involved?
>>
>> For sure no Mars projects without a *lot* more work.  To go on a space
>> craft the chips have to be rad hardened.
>>
>> Last I heard they had a project to produce a 32 bit version of the
>> CPU... an F32 I suppose.  We'll see if they fix any of the many utility
>> issues of the GA144.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick
>
> Sorry Rick, Is there a link that works? I used yours and it got me nowhere useful, sorry. No GA, no price.

I don't know what to tell you.  I tried it and the link works fine. 
Takes you right to the Schmartboard home page.


> Which Simulators in Forth are there - sorry - no links again  - no info.
> If you comment - please add helpful info - no grey area.
> I was asking the whole CLF community - and it seems there no relevant info.

Sorry.  I don't have links handy.  If you want to find the GA simulator 
you just download the tools.  I can't give you any more clear 
instructions than that.

I already told you about the other simulator.  It was presented at the 
SVFIG monthly talks and you can either contact someone with SVFIG who 
may be able to point you to the presentation on youtube or they may have 
an online index of their monthlies.


> So you are just supporting my assumption - no known projects.

GA has indicated that they have sold chips to customers who use them in 
products.  They have provided no details that I am aware of.  One 
alleged app involved a rather complicated hearing aid algorithm that 
maxed out a pair of TMS6700 DSPs or something similar.  Again no details 
on it going into production.


> As I assumed we are all guessing - no official information. Possibly NDA covered projects.

Both the hearing aid app and the 32 bit version were discussed by 
reputable sources connected to GA.


> Thanks for the feedback.
> Or do we rather wait for the F64, F128 ...
>
 > My ASIC background tells me 3-6 months for masks sets, another 3 - 6 
moths for chips - so we are talking 2016 / 2017.

How do you know what point in the process they are currently at?  They 
may not even have started layout or they may have already ordered mask sets.

Why are you so interested?  I would love to hear about anything they are 
doing, but I'm not holding my breath in any way.  They are a shoestring 
operation designing a very unique product.  Don't expect them to meet 
anyone else's idea of a schedule or other measures of progress.

-- 

Rick

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#37384

Fromalbert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2015-03-18 11:05 +0000
Message-ID<55095c06$0$3069$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#37273
In article <42d25675-3529-4aa7-8ff9-08f4ad256cef@googlegroups.com>,
JUERGEN  <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 4:54:08 AM UTC, polymorph self wrote:
>> Can anyone speak to some forth working in the field apps greenarrays has achieved?
>>
>> What kind of projects are they up to?
>
>It seems, not much, as the whole clf community does not know anything - and even
>Greenarrays does not care to give any comment.
>
>It seems that the core used in the Green Arrays Project is not relevant to the whole CLF community.
>
>I can understand that the HW is too expensive to try it out,
>and Greenarrays does not use any of the existing SW emulations either.
>
>But he existing Forth community does not take it serious, otherwise a simlation in Forth of
>the core would have been done.

You didn't look hard enough. Leon Koning (current chairman of the Dutch
FIG chapter) made one with a liberal license (BSD)
    www.arrayfactor.org
It is written in Factor which counts as a Forth-related language.

<SNIP>
Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#37569

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2015-03-22 22:38 -0400
Message-ID<menu90$p80$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#37188
On 3/12/2015 12:54 AM, polymorph self wrote:
> Can anyone speak to some forth working in the field apps greenarrays has achieved?
>
> What kind of projects are they up to?

Oh yeah, I just remembered a project I was discussing with another 
engineer for a control loop processor.  It needed 5 ADCs and DACs or 
something like that.  He selected a four channel ADC with a 48 kHz 
sample rate and used two of them harnessed to an ARM CM4.  He wasn't 
sure the I/O would be fast enough and I realized the GA144 might do the 
entire thing in one device.  One limitation was his perceived need for a 
high resolution on the ADC which the GA144 might not have quite been 
able to achieve.

The real deal killer was that he wanted programming talent that lived 
within 10 miles of his house so they could work together at a moment's 
notice.  Oh well... But the GA144 might serve very well in such a 
controller app.  They typically have low I/O count requirements but need 
a fair amount of processing.  Here the 18 bit word size would be a 
benefit too.

-- 

Rick

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