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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #34733 > unrolled thread
| Started by | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-12-01 18:55 -0800 |
| Last post | 2014-12-25 21:08 +0000 |
| Articles | 9 — 4 participants |
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Program or be Programmed ! visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-12-01 18:55 -0800
Re: Program or be Programmed ! Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-12-02 11:36 +0000
Re: Program or be Programmed ! the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-13 12:47 -0800
Re: Program or be Programmed ! Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-12-13 20:54 +0000
Re: Program or be Programmed ! visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-12-17 16:51 -0800
Re: Program or be Programmed ! "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-19 08:20 +0000
Re: Program or be Programmed ! Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-12-19 09:29 +0000
Re: Program or be Programmed ! "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-27 07:57 +0000
Re: Program or be Programmed ! "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-25 21:08 +0000
| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-01 18:55 -0800 |
| Subject | Program or be Programmed ! |
| Message-ID | <98f287f7-fc54-4cd6-95c5-3c62100c89fd@googlegroups.com> |
I just started to read Douglas Rushkoff's book "Program or be Programmed" and found some lines which should tell us that it is an important task of us to educate young people in programming: "Computers and networks finally offer us the ability to write. And we do write with them on our websites, blogs, and social networks. But the underlying capability of the computer era is actually programming -- which almost none of us knows how to do . We simply use the programs that have been made for us, and enter our text in the appropriate box on the screen. We teach kids how to use software to write, but not how to write software . This means they have access to the capabilities given to them by others, but not the power to determine the value-creating capabilities of these technologies for themselves." We should be proud that with the power of Forth we can teach kids how to write software, to give them access to the power to determine the value-creating capabilities of this technology for themselves. I accidentally found this by a special e-book offer from O/R Books: http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/program/ And I am sure another one is worth reading: "Technocreep - The Surrender of Privacy" by Thomas P. Keenan, http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/technocreep/ And there are more: http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/ I am writing this because this offer is available this week only, with O/R books celebrating it's fifth birthday. Of course these books are available as printed books, too. I ordered "Autopilot" as printed edition.
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| From | Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-02 11:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ce5mhdFctpU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #34733 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > I just started to read Douglas Rushkoff's book "Program or be Programmed" > and found some lines which should tell us that it is an important task of > us to educate young people in programming: > > "Computers and networks finally offer us the ability to write. And we do > write with them on our websites, blogs, and social networks. But the > underlying capability of the computer era is actually programming -- which > almost none of us knows how to do . We simply use the programs that have > been made for us, and enter our text in the appropriate box on the screen. > We teach kids how to use software to write, but not how to write software > . This means they have access to the capabilities given to them by others, > but not the power to determine the value-creating capabilities of these > technologies for themselves." > > We should be proud that with the power of Forth we can teach kids how to > write software, to give them access to the power to determine the > value-creating capabilities of this technology for themselves. > > I accidentally found this by a special e-book offer from O/R Books: > http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/program/ > > And I am sure another one is worth reading: "Technocreep - The Surrender > of Privacy" by Thomas P. Keenan, > http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/technocreep/ > > And there are more: http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/ > I am writing this because this offer is available this week only, with O/R > books celebrating it's fifth birthday. Of course these books are available > as printed books, too. I ordered "Autopilot" as printed edition. I managed to outline the very basics of Forth to a 5 year-old at a recent Imagineering Exhibition. In about 5 minutes spent with him he managed to grasp the concepts of the parameter stack and postfix operations. He was, to admit, quite bright in that he had suggested a small modification to the programme I was running on the stand. I was displaying a sine-wave of asterix characters scrolling continuously down the screen. 3 lines of code generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers and the other 30 or so lines did scaling and arrangements for its display. I was showing the source code in a separate window. With a bit of role play in the class-room and the aid of a few blocks and sheets of acrylic and some dry marker pens (shame we can't use chalk anymore) Forth would be a very good language to teach our primary school children. It would probably not take many sessions of this before you could let them loose on a Forth on a computer and have them programming for real. There are some tutorial books that can help the teachers at this level too. -- ******************************************************************** Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979 Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk.. ********************************************************************
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| From | the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-13 12:47 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <43dadfc9-2e26-4e57-8a0e-4489ab2cde66@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #34748 |
On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:36:15 AM UTC-5, Paul E Bennett wrote: > visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > > > I just started to read Douglas Rushkoff's book "Program or be Programmed" > > and found some lines which should tell us that it is an important task of > > us to educate young people in programming: > > > > "Computers and networks finally offer us the ability to write. And we do > > write with them on our websites, blogs, and social networks. But the > > underlying capability of the computer era is actually programming -- which > > almost none of us knows how to do . We simply use the programs that have > > been made for us, and enter our text in the appropriate box on the screen. > > We teach kids how to use software to write, but not how to write software > > . This means they have access to the capabilities given to them by others, > > but not the power to determine the value-creating capabilities of these > > technologies for themselves." > > > > We should be proud that with the power of Forth we can teach kids how to > > write software, to give them access to the power to determine the > > value-creating capabilities of this technology for themselves. > > > > I accidentally found this by a special e-book offer from O/R Books: > > http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/program/ > > > > And I am sure another one is worth reading: "Technocreep - The Surrender > > of Privacy" by Thomas P. Keenan, > > http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/technocreep/ > > > > And there are more: http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/ > > I am writing this because this offer is available this week only, with O/R > > books celebrating it's fifth birthday. Of course these books are available > > as printed books, too. I ordered "Autopilot" as printed edition. > > I managed to outline the very basics of Forth to a 5 year-old at a recent > Imagineering Exhibition. In about 5 minutes spent with him he managed to > grasp the concepts of the parameter stack and postfix operations. > > He was, to admit, quite bright in that he had suggested a small modification > to the programme I was running on the stand. I was displaying a sine-wave of > asterix characters scrolling continuously down the screen. 3 lines of code > generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers and the other 30 or so lines > did scaling and arrangements for its display. I was showing the source code > in a separate window. > > With a bit of role play in the class-room and the aid of a few blocks and > sheets of acrylic and some dry marker pens (shame we can't use chalk > anymore) Forth would be a very good language to teach our primary school > children. It would probably not take many sessions of this before you could > let them loose on a Forth on a computer and have them programming for real. > There are some tutorial books that can help the teachers at this level too. > > -- > ******************************************************************** > Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> > Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk> > Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 > Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979 > Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk.. > ******************************************************************** sounds wishful
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| From | Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-13 20:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cf3nbmFi4kdU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #34904 |
the_gavino_himself wrote: [%X] >> I managed to outline the very basics of Forth to a 5 year-old at a recent >> Imagineering Exhibition. In about 5 minutes spent with him he managed to >> grasp the concepts of the parameter stack and postfix operations. >> >> He was, to admit, quite bright in that he had suggested a small >> modification to the programme I was running on the stand. I was >> displaying a sine-wave of asterix characters scrolling continuously down >> the screen. 3 lines of code generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers >> and the other 30 or so lines did scaling and arrangements for its >> display. I was showing the source code in a separate window. >> >> With a bit of role play in the class-room and the aid of a few blocks and >> sheets of acrylic and some dry marker pens (shame we can't use chalk >> anymore) Forth would be a very good language to teach our primary school >> children. It would probably not take many sessions of this before you >> could let them loose on a Forth on a computer and have them programming >> for real. There are some tutorial books that can help the teachers at >> this level too. > > sounds wishful Not that wishful Gav. I have run some of the ideas by some ex-teachers and have some contacts in the Teacher Training arena. The 5 year-old was probably easier to deal with. I know the real challenge is teaching the teachers on how to approach the material. -- ******************************************************************** Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979 Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk.. ********************************************************************
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-17 16:51 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <82065429-d3fe-49ad-aef7-4772b889d39b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #34904 |
On Saturday, December 13, 2014 3:47:39 PM UTC-5, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:36:15 AM UTC-5, Paul E Bennett wrote:
> > visualforth.com wrote:
> >
> > > I just started to read Douglas Rushkoff's book "Program or be Programmed"
> > > and found some lines which should tell us that it is an important task of
> > > us to educate young people in programming:
> > >
> > > "Computers and networks finally offer us the ability to write. And we do
> > > write with them on our websites, blogs, and social networks. But the
> > > underlying capability of the computer era is actually programming -- which
> > > almost none of us knows how to do . We simply use the programs that have
> > > been made for us, and enter our text in the appropriate box on the screen.
> > > We teach kids how to use software to write, but not how to write software
> > > . This means they have access to the capabilities given to them by others,
> > > but not the power to determine the value-creating capabilities of these
> > > technologies for themselves."
> > >
> > > We should be proud that with the power of Forth we can teach kids how to
> > > write software, to give them access to the power to determine the
> > > value-creating capabilities of this technology for themselves.
> > >
> > > I accidentally found this by a special e-book offer from O/R Books:
> > > http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/program/
> > >
> > > And I am sure another one is worth reading: "Technocreep - The Surrender
> > > of Privacy" by Thomas P. Keenan,
> > > http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/technocreep/
> > >
> > > And there are more: http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/
> > > I am writing this because this offer is available this week only, with O/R
> > > books celebrating it's fifth birthday. Of course these books are available
> > > as printed books, too. I ordered "Autopilot" as printed edition.
> >
> > I managed to outline the very basics of Forth to a 5 year-old at a recent
> > Imagineering Exhibition. In about 5 minutes spent with him he managed to
> > grasp the concepts of the parameter stack and postfix operations.
> >
> > He was, to admit, quite bright in that he had suggested a small modification
> > to the programme I was running on the stand. I was displaying a sine-wave of
> > asterix characters scrolling continuously down the screen. 3 lines of code
> > generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers and the other 30 or so lines
> > did scaling and arrangements for its display. I was showing the source code
> > in a separate window.
> >
> > With a bit of role play in the class-room and the aid of a few blocks and
> > sheets of acrylic and some dry marker pens (shame we can't use chalk
> > anymore) Forth would be a very good language to teach our primary school
> > children. It would probably not take many sessions of this before you could
> > let them loose on a Forth on a computer and have them programming for real.
> > There are some tutorial books that can help the teachers at this level too.
> >
> > --
> sounds wishful
Gavino,
This isn't wishful at all. More than thirty years ago, one year before the RTX2000 was launched, at Munich's electronica fair I showed RSC-Forth on a 100mm x 100mm MINIBEE R6511 Microprocessor board to school kids on Saturday morning, when everybody was allowed to enter the fair. I showed how easy it is to make sounds writing some lines of Forth code.
While typing the code, one of the kids immediately told me that I had made a typo, and he was right! Imagine that! A seven year old kid! Back then programming wasn't taught in schools yet!
I read you have problems programming in Forth. So try this, what I showed to these school kids. You only need a TI MSP430 G2 LaunchPad (10$ - if you don't have the money, I'll send it to you), a little 8 Ohm Speaker (90 Cents at Sparkfun) and the 4E4th-IDE, an Integrated Development Environment for this Launchpad, free download at http://www.4e4th-ide.org/
Here it is - copy this text and use the IDE's 'Download / Clipboard / All' menu:
( ---------------------------------------------- )
HEX
: TIMER
1 2A C! 1 2E C!
80 182 !
;
: SET-TIMER ( n -- )
192 !
;
: TIMER-ON
210 180 !
;
: TIMER-OFF
0 180 !
;
: TIMER-START ( n -- )
TIMER DUP SET-TIMER TIMER-ON
;
: DOWN-TIMER
0 DO 1 MS I - DUP SET-TIMER
DUP 1 < IF LEAVE THEN LOOP TIMER-OFF
;
: CHIRP
1000 TIMER-START 100 DOWN-TIMER
;
DECIMAL
: CHIRP3 CHIRP 100 MS CHIRP 50 MS CHIRP ;
: CHIRPS BEGIN CHIRP3 300 MS KEY? UNTIL ;
( ---------------------------------------------- )
You will get it running within a few minutes, following the IDE's advice.
Let me know about your success or problems!
Take the chance!
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| From | "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-19 08:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m70n3m$vmk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #34748 |
Paul E Bennett wrote:
> I was displaying a sine-wave of
> asterix characters scrolling continuously down the screen. 3 lines of code
> generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers and the other 30 or so lines
> did scaling and arrangements for its display. I was showing the source code
> in a separate window.
Gauche Scheme:
(define line-length 79)
(define mid-point (div line-length 2))
(define one-line (string-append
(make-string mid-point #\space) "|" (make-string mid-point #\space)))
(define (pause) (sys-nanosleep 5e7))
(let loop ((x 0.0))
(when (< x 22)
(let ((this-line (string-copy one-line))
(p (round->exact (+ mid-point (* mid-point (sin x))))))
(string-set! this-line p #\*)
(print this-line)
(pause))
(loop (+ 0.1 x))))
Partial output:
* |
* |
* |
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| From | Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-19 09:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cfi9flFbihrU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #35021 |
WJ wrote: > Paul E Bennett wrote: > >> I was displaying a sine-wave of >> asterix characters scrolling continuously down the screen. 3 lines of >> code generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers and the other 30 or so >> lines did scaling and arrangements for its display. I was showing the >> source code in a separate window. > > Gauche Scheme: > > (define line-length 79) > (define mid-point (div line-length 2)) > (define one-line (string-append > (make-string mid-point #\space) "|" (make-string mid-point #\space))) > (define (pause) (sys-nanosleep 5e7)) > (let loop ((x 0.0)) > (when (< x 22) > (let ((this-line (string-copy one-line)) > (p (round->exact (+ mid-point (* mid-point (sin x)))))) > (string-set! this-line p #\*) > (print this-line) > (pause)) > (loop (+ 0.1 x)))) > > Partial output: [%X] Ok, now do that without using the sin x function (which I did not in my example). I shall post the full source of my example shortly. I have just had a quick look and there is a total of 65 lines defining 7 words including the comments and a more vertical style than most use. You will see (eventually) that had I used a more horizontal style it would probably have been just seven lines. The reason I started playing with the central sine-wave generation was for a small robotic project that required me to generate such a waveform. The three line sine-wave generation code is all that I am using from this example for the robotics project. -- ******************************************************************** Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979 Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk.. ********************************************************************
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| From | "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-27 07:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mf32hu$9ld$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #35021 |
WJ wrote:
> Paul E Bennett wrote:
>
> > I was displaying a sine-wave of
> > asterix characters scrolling continuously down the screen. 3 lines of code
> > generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers and the other 30 or so lines
> > did scaling and arrangements for its display. I was showing the source code
> > in a separate window.
>
> Gauche Scheme:
>
> (define line-length 79)
> (define mid-point (div line-length 2))
> (define one-line (string-append
> (make-string mid-point #\space) "|" (make-string mid-point #\space)))
> (define (pause) (sys-nanosleep 5e7))
> (let loop ((x 0.0))
> (when (< x 22)
> (let ((this-line (string-copy one-line))
> (p (round->exact (+ mid-point (* mid-point (sin x))))))
> (string-set! this-line p #\*)
> (print this-line)
> (pause))
> (loop (+ 0.1 x))))
>
> Partial output:
>
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
> * |
Oforth:
79 Constant new: line-length
line-length 2.0 / ceil Constant new: mid-point
func: make-line {
ListBuffer init( line-length, #[ ' ' ] )
dup put( mid-point, '|' ) }
func: pause { System sleep(50) }
func: go {| i x old-x delta char |
0 -> old-x
0 220 for: i [
i 10.0 / sin mid-point -- * mid-point + -> x
x old-x - -> delta
delta abs 0.5 <
ifTrue: [ '|' ]
else: [ delta sgn 2 + "/ \\" at ] -> char
make-line dup put( x round, char )
charsAsString println
pause
x -> old-x
]
}
Partial output:
/ |
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|/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-12-25 21:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m7hubk$7ll$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #34748 |
Paul E Bennett wrote:
> I was displaying a sine-wave of
> asterix characters scrolling continuously down the screen. 3 lines of code
> generated the sine-wave (and cosine) numbers and the other 30 or so lines
> did scaling and arrangements for its display.
Factor:
USING: sequences literals locals math.ranges math.functions ;
<< CONSTANT: line-length 79 >>
CONSTANT: mid-point $[ line-length 2 /i ]
: one-line ( -- string )
mid-point " " first <string>
dup "|" prepend append ;
:: starred-line ( i -- string )
one-line :> str
CHAR: * i str set-nth
str ;
0.0 22.0 0.1 <range>
[ sin mid-point * mid-point +
round >fixnum starred-line print
] each
Partial output:
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