Groups > comp.lang.forth > #34159 > unrolled thread

Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi

Started by	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
First post	2014-10-26 12:02 -0400
Last post	2014-10-28 14:06 -0500
Articles	20 on this page of 130 — 29 participants

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  Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0400
    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 16:11 +0000
      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:20 -0400
        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:44 -0400
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 17:09 +0000
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 14:45 -0400
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-26 18:57 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:14 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:47 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:10 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:43 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:31 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:18 +0000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:15 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 13:24 -0700
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:48 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Raymond Wiker <rwiker@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 22:12 +0100
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:20 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 14:39 -0700
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:46 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:11 -0700
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 18:25 -0400
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:58 -0700
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:20 +0000
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-29 07:02 -0700
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-30 11:20 +0100
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:56 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:14 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:48 +0000
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:35 -0400
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:24 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-10-28 15:52 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:49 -0400
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Ray <ray@invalid.com> - 2014-10-28 17:22 +0000
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:02 -0400
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-10-27 10:07 +0100
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:22 +0000
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-27 11:30 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:37 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 12:41 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:51 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 18:44 +0000
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-27 11:49 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:51 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 20:31 -1000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:01 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 21:14 -1000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:45 -0400
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 22:14 -1000
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 14:09 -0400
                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2014-10-28 21:50 +0000
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 00:01 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:50 -0400
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 01:20 +0000
                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 00:58 +0000
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-28 18:04 -0700
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-29 01:40 -0400
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 12:41 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 15:34 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-11-16 12:01 -0500
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-16 17:22 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:06 +0000
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 18:27 +0000
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:19 +0000
                                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 20:11 +0000
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-17 11:56 +0000
                                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 13:42 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-11-17 10:14 -0800
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 17:25 +0000
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:40 +0000
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:12 +0000
                                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 19:50 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 21:22 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-11-16 17:38 -0500
                                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 00:12 +0000
                                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2014-11-16 19:53 -0600
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-11-17 01:00 +0100
                                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-17 12:03 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-18 20:03 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 18:20 +0000
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-29 11:53 +0000
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 06:52 -0700
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:18 -0400
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 20:24 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:09 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 22:05 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 20:27 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 17:45 -0700
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 21:09 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 18:22 -0700
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 23:20 -0400
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 20:53 -0700
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 10:23 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:36 -0700
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 22:23 +0000
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:43 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:26 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:15 +0000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 14:12 +0000
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:34 +0000
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:31 -0400
                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:50 -0700
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 19:26 -0400
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 16:37 -0700
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 20:17 -0400
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 17:24 -0700
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:10 -0400
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-28 09:13 -0400
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 04:14 -0400
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:15 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-28 10:22 +0100
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 15:53 -0400
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:10 -0400
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:23 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2014-11-15 23:09 +0100
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 00:35 +0000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-11-16 00:06 -0500
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:36 +0000
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:24 -0400
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 23:48 +0200
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-28 05:27 -0700
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 16:02 -0400
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-28 22:57 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 19:54 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:01 -0400
      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-27 04:10 +0100
    QUESTIONS and ANSWERS pass in the dark  ;< - was [ Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi ] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2014-10-28 14:06 -0500

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#34437

From	The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date	2014-11-16 17:22 +0000
Message-ID	<m4amgc$bh2$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#34435

On 16/11/14 17:01, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:34:20 -0500, Theo Markettos
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> In comp.sys.raspberry-pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I was working with some folks who run Linux in their network boxes.  I
>>> couldn't do anything without specific instructions because they are so
>>> used to the command line editor.  They would do stuff and it would be in
>>> a "mode" where I couldn't type and didn't know to hit esc to get out.
>>> lol  I think he said it was like vi.  You point may be very valid.
>>
>> vi is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric tools
>> with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick it up and
>> use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself first.
>>
>
> While I prefer EDIT, on MS-DOS, or a very similar editor, Leafpad,
> on Linux, you only need to know 6 VI commands and 3 EX/ED commands
> to use VI very effectively.  If you use GREP, you probably already
> familiar the regular expressions that VI uses.  One of the areas
> where VI excels, due to the EX/ED commands, is matching many lines
> on a line-by-line basis from a command instead of visually editing,
> although it has a visual editing mode too, at least on Linux nowadays.
> The line-by-line ability makes VI excellent for processing lists or
> word dictionaries or DNS names or Usenet groups list or C program
> output or system logs, etc.  The other area where VI excels is that
> good ports of it are available on nearly every platform, even
> including DOS.  It's probably worth learning just for that.
>
>
> Rod Pemberton

Its worth pointing out that a wordstar compatible editor exists for 
80x25 screens using curses, not a GUI.


Its called JOE IIRC.


Part of stock debian install.

But there's nano and pico too for console editing.

Whatever rocks your boat...

Find one with GOOD documentation and - er - just learn it!



-- 
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the 
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll

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#34436

From	Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com>
Date	2014-11-16 17:06 +0000
Message-ID	<20141116170602.3b81353e@ntlworld.com>
In reply to	#34434

On 16 Nov 2014 15:34:20 +0000 (GMT)
Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> vi is horrible.

vi, or more likely these days Vim, is very powerful but you don't need
to learn much to use it for basic editing.  It's worth spending a few
minutes with it, because it's the editor most likely to be installed on
any UNIX-like machine.  GVim can also be useful in the GUI - you can
point-and-click if you want to avoid using the keyboard commands, and
it works well with large or binary files.

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#34442

From	Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date	2014-11-16 18:27 +0000
Message-ID	<m4aq9j$nun$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34436

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:06:02 +0000, Rob Morley wrote:

> vi, or more likely these days Vim, is very powerful but you don't need
> to learn much to use it for basic editing.  It's worth spending a few
> minutes with it, because it's the editor most likely to be installed on
> any UNIX-like machine.  GVim can also be useful in the GUI - you can
> point-and-click if you want to avoid using the keyboard commands, and it
> works well with large or binary files.
>
Agreed, and as vi/vim is about the one editor that is virtually 
guaranteed to installed in every UNIX, Linux or related operating system, 
its worth learning the basics of using it simply because its almost 
always there. 

In addition its a very useful 'get out of jail free' card because of you 
can use it on a terminal without cursor keys or in situations when cursor 
keys are borked. If its in neutral, i.e. not in one of the text entry 
modes, the keys h,j,k,l act as cursor keys:
  h - moves one place left
  l - moves one place right
  j - moves down a line
  k - moves up a line

This can get you out of trouble if you're trying to revive a nearly dead 
system. For instance, you may be reduced to using a 'glass teletype' 
screen because anything better has ceased to work.

That said, my favourite editor is microEmacs. If its not installed and 
not available for your distro or OS, you can get the source here:
http://www.aquest.com/emacs.htm

There's quite a decent manual and, because its fairly easily configured 
for almost and terminal, all the function keys, etc work on almost any 
hardware.

Despite its name, its a full featured text editor and uses function keys 
etc defined by the traditional /etc/termcap file. It is written in C very 
fast. It is easily configured and compiled for almost any OS on any 
hardware: the only restrictions are that you must have a C compiler and 
termcap must be supported on the target system. It can edit many files at 
once (limit set by system memory) and display any two loaded files for 
comparison, text copying, etc. 

I first met microEmacs on Microware's OS/9 operating system, but have 
since ported it to at least two flavours of UNIX (on NCR and DEC alpha 
boxes at $work), and currently use it on my Linux systems (Fedora and 
RaspberryPi) as well as on OS/9-68000.  

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#34445

From	Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net>
Date	2014-11-16 19:19 +0000
Message-ID	<m4atc4$dn8$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34442

In article <m4aq9j$nun$1@dont-email.me>,
Martin Gregorie  <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>I first met microEmacs on Microware's OS/9 operating system, but have 
>since ported it to at least two flavours of UNIX (on NCR and DEC alpha 
>boxes at $work), and currently use it on my Linux systems (Fedora and 
>RaspberryPi) as well as on OS/9-68000.  

I ported it to a version of minix running on a transputer some 25 years
ago. To port it I had to write the whole termcap thing from scratch as
there wasn't a public domain one I could find (and we didn't have the
internet then) I was also tasked with porting the full-blown emacs,
but even back then it wouldn't work on the somewhat limited system we
had. (More a minix issue then IIRC)

But to help write termcap I had to port a vi-like editor first, (STeVIe)
then use that to test termcap, then that to port microEmacs...

It was all somewhat intersting at the time...

-Gordon

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#34451

From	Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date	2014-11-16 20:11 +0000
Message-ID	<m4b0du$kiq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34445

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:19:32 +0000, Gordon Henderson wrote:

> I ported it to a version of minix running on a transputer some 25 years
> ago. To port it I had to write the whole termcap thing from scratch as
> there wasn't a public domain one I could find (and we didn't have the
> internet then) I was also tasked with porting the full-blown emacs,
> but even back then it wouldn't work on the somewhat limited system we
> had. (More a minix issue then IIRC)
>
Been there, done that. A while back I decided I needed a version of 
Curses for Java - there wasn't anything particularly portable or well 
enough documented at the time (it used JINI), so I wrote my own and, of 
course, to make that work in a sane and sensible fashion, I also ended up 
writing termcap for Java, which my Curses implementation uses for its low-
level screen handling. FWIW I went for termcap rather then terminfo 
because its innards are better defined than terminfo. There are at least 
two incompatible versions of terminfo out there and ditto for tic: since 
there's no easily accessible documentation for the tic output file (that 
I could find, anyway), sticking with termcap seemed like the most 
sensible option.

> But to help write termcap I had to port a vi-like editor first, (STeVIe)
> then use that to test termcap, then that to port microEmacs...
> 
I already have microEmacs, which I've been using since about 1992. As it 
does everything I need, I'm not too keen on using anything else for my 
everyday editing needs. Besides, its dead easy to port to another OS.

Needless to say, porting it to my RPi was amongst the first things I did 
when I got one. microEmacs is termcap based: the RPi doesn't support 
termcap, but there's a nice GNU version at the Free Software Foundation 
which was trivially easily ported to the RPi. Its only drawback is that 
it doesn't support tc links between termcap definitions, but a quick hand 
edit soon fixed my usual /etc/termcap by setting up a monolithic xterm 
entry. Did the lot, including finding the GNU termcap, in about half an 
afternoon once I'd fired up the RPi, configured it for headless operation 
on my LAN and set up CVS on it.

> It was all somewhat interesting at the time...
> 
Yes, indeed. All good fun too.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#34460

From	albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date	2014-11-17 11:56 +0000
Message-ID	<5469e27e$0$15822$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to	#34442

In article <m4aq9j$nun$1@dont-email.me>,
Martin Gregorie  <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:06:02 +0000, Rob Morley wrote:
>
>> vi, or more likely these days Vim, is very powerful but you don't need
>> to learn much to use it for basic editing.  It's worth spending a few
>> minutes with it, because it's the editor most likely to be installed on
>> any UNIX-like machine.  GVim can also be useful in the GUI - you can
>> point-and-click if you want to avoid using the keyboard commands, and it
>> works well with large or binary files.
>>
>Agreed, and as vi/vim is about the one editor that is virtually
>guaranteed to installed in every UNIX, Linux or related operating system,
>its worth learning the basics of using it simply because its almost
>always there.
>
>In addition its a very useful 'get out of jail free' card because of you
>can use it on a terminal without cursor keys or in situations when cursor
>keys are borked. If its in neutral, i.e. not in one of the text entry
>modes, the keys h,j,k,l act as cursor keys:
>  h - moves one place left
>  l - moves one place right
>  j - moves down a line
>  k - moves up a line
>
>This can get you out of trouble if you're trying to revive a nearly dead
>system. For instance, you may be reduced to using a 'glass teletype'
>screen because anything better has ceased to work.
>
>That said, my favourite editor is microEmacs. If its not installed and
>not available for your distro or OS, you can get the source here:
>http://www.aquest.com/emacs.htm
>
>There's quite a decent manual and, because its fairly easily configured
>for almost and terminal, all the function keys, etc work on almost any
>hardware.
>
>Despite its name, its a full featured text editor and uses function keys
>etc defined by the traditional /etc/termcap file. It is written in C very
>fast. It is easily configured and compiled for almost any OS on any
>hardware: the only restrictions are that you must have a C compiler and
>termcap must be supported on the target system. It can edit many files at
>once (limit set by system memory) and display any two loaded files for
>comparison, text copying, etc.
>
>I first met microEmacs on Microware's OS/9 operating system, but have
>since ported it to at least two flavours of UNIX (on NCR and DEC alpha
>boxes at $work), and currently use it on my Linux systems (Fedora and
>RaspberryPi) as well as on OS/9-68000.

I had it available on Coherent (1991 a 16 bit Unix clone). I use its
manual to this day. So I have a micro emacs manual in print.
Maybe give it a try.

In 1985 one of my collegues Edwin disapproved of both vi and emacs.
Subsequently he wrote an editor that removed the disadvantage of both.
I'm using it right now. Works on linux,windows and I have the source.

>martin@   | Martin Gregorie

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#34462

From	Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date	2014-11-17 13:42 +0000
Message-ID	<m4ctvl$duq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34460

On Mon, 17 Nov 2014 11:56:46 +0000, Albert van der Horst wrote:

> In article <m4aq9j$nun$1@dont-email.me>,
> Martin Gregorie  <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:06:02 +0000, Rob Morley wrote:
>>
>>> vi, or more likely these days Vim, is very powerful but you don't need
>>> to learn much to use it for basic editing.  It's worth spending a few
>>> minutes with it, because it's the editor most likely to be installed
>>> on any UNIX-like machine.  GVim can also be useful in the GUI - you
>>> can point-and-click if you want to avoid using the keyboard commands,
>>> and it works well with large or binary files.
>>>
>>Agreed, and as vi/vim is about the one editor that is virtually
>>guaranteed to installed in every UNIX, Linux or related operating
>>system,
>>its worth learning the basics of using it simply because its almost
>>always there.
>>
>>In addition its a very useful 'get out of jail free' card because of you
>>can use it on a terminal without cursor keys or in situations when
>>cursor keys are borked. If its in neutral, i.e. not in one of the text
>>entry modes, the keys h,j,k,l act as cursor keys:
>>  h - moves one place left l - moves one place right j - moves down a
>>  line k - moves up a line
>>
>>This can get you out of trouble if you're trying to revive a nearly dead
>>system. For instance, you may be reduced to using a 'glass teletype'
>>screen because anything better has ceased to work.
>>
>>That said, my favourite editor is microEmacs. If its not installed and
>>not available for your distro or OS, you can get the source here:
>>http://www.aquest.com/emacs.htm
>>
>>There's quite a decent manual and, because its fairly easily configured
>>for almost and terminal, all the function keys, etc work on almost any
>>hardware.
>>
>>Despite its name, its a full featured text editor and uses function keys
>>etc defined by the traditional /etc/termcap file. It is written in C
>>very fast. It is easily configured and compiled for almost any OS on any
>>hardware: the only restrictions are that you must have a C compiler and
>>termcap must be supported on the target system. It can edit many files
>>at once (limit set by system memory) and display any two loaded files
>>for comparison, text copying, etc.
>>
>>I first met microEmacs on Microware's OS/9 operating system, but have
>>since ported it to at least two flavours of UNIX (on NCR and DEC alpha
>>boxes at $work), and currently use it on my Linux systems (Fedora and
>>RaspberryPi) as well as on OS/9-68000.
> 
> I had it available on Coherent (1991 a 16 bit Unix clone). I use its
> manual to this day. So I have a micro emacs manual in print.
> Maybe give it a try.
>
FWIW, I'm using the Martin Whittaker version of microEmacs V4.00,
though I admit I couldn't tell you how that differs from vanilla me v4.0

Has anybody used microEmacs v5? I see the beta is available from the 
aquest website as ports to several OSen..


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#34464

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2014-11-17 10:14 -0800
Message-ID	<7xwq6t7kzl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
In reply to	#34462

Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> writes:
> Has anybody used microEmacs v5? I see the beta is available from the 
> aquest website as ports to several OSen..

MicroEmacs is a program I didn't realize was still around.  I use ZILE
sometimes on small VPS's, but really, a Raspberry Pi is plenty powerful
enough to run Emacs.

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#34438

From	Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net>
Date	2014-11-16 17:25 +0000
Message-ID	<m4amlj$jak$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34434

In article <mQx*-dJgv@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
Theo Markettos  <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>In comp.sys.raspberry-pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was working with some folks who run Linux in their network boxes.  I 
>> couldn't do anything without specific instructions because they are so 
>> used to the command line editor.  They would do stuff and it would be in 
>> a "mode" where I couldn't type and didn't know to hit esc to get out. 
>> lol  I think he said it was like vi.  You point may be very valid.
>
>vi is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric tools
>with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick it up and use
>it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself first.

Emacs is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric
tools with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick it
up and use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself first.

Gordon

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#34439

From	Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com>
Date	2014-11-16 17:40 +0000
Message-ID	<20141116174040.01213780@ntlworld.com>
In reply to	#34438

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:25:08 +0000 (UTC)
Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:

> In article <mQx*-dJgv@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Theo Markettos  <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> >vi is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric
> >tools with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick
> >it up and use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself
> >first.
> 
> Emacs is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric
> tools with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick it
> up and use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself first.
> 
I was hoping we could avoid the vi/Emacs wars.

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#34444

From	Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net>
Date	2014-11-16 19:12 +0000
Message-ID	<m4asun$dn8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34439

In article <20141116174040.01213780@ntlworld.com>,
Rob Morley  <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:25:08 +0000 (UTC)
>Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <mQx*-dJgv@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
>> Theo Markettos  <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> >vi is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric
>> >tools with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick
>> >it up and use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself
>> >first.
>> 
>> Emacs is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric
>> tools with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick it
>> up and use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself first.
>> 
>I was hoping we could avoid the vi/Emacs wars.

Me too, but someone always starts it ...

vi (these days vim) is just a tool I use. It happens to be one I'm
very comfortable with using, having used it for about 25 years now.

Gordon

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#34446

From	Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk>
Date	2014-11-16 19:50 +0000
Message-ID	<76699d6754.Alan.Adams@iyonix.adamshome.org.uk>
In reply to	#34444

In message <m4asun$dn8$1@dont-email.me>
          Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:

> In article <20141116174040.01213780@ntlworld.com>,
> Rob Morley  <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:25:08 +0000 (UTC)
>>Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <mQx*-dJgv@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
>>> Theo Markettos  <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>vi is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric
>>>>tools with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick
>>>>it up and use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself
>>>>first.
>>> 
>>> Emacs is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric
>>> tools with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick it
>>> up and use it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself first.
>>> 
>>I was hoping we could avoid the vi/Emacs wars.

> Me too, but someone always starts it ...

> vi (these days vim) is just a tool I use. It happens to be one I'm
> very comfortable with using, having used it for about 25 years now.

> Gordon

which I think sums it up well. An editor is a tool you have to be 
comfortable with, since you are using it, not for its own utility, but 
to handle something else. You want to be able to concentrate on the 
something else, not to have to keep thinking about the editor.

For this reason most people have a deep affection for the first editor 
that got really familisr with, and resist atttempts to get them to 
switch to something else.

In my case the first was ECCE on a VAX. Later EDT, and better the EDT 
emulation in EVE. A colleague swore by TECO - most others swore AT 
TECO.

These days StrongED on RISC OS, and Ovation Pro for DTP work, and if I 
have to use Windows, Notepad++

-- 
Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire
alan@adamshome.org.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/

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#34453

From	Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net>
Date	2014-11-16 21:22 +0000
Message-ID	<m4b4j0$aur$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34446

In article <76699d6754.Alan.Adams@iyonix.adamshome.org.uk>,
Alan Adams  <alan@adamshome.org.uk> wrote:

>In my case the first was ECCE on a VAX. Later EDT, and better the EDT 
>emulation in EVE. A colleague swore by TECO - most others swore AT 
>TECO.

ECCE - The Edinburgh Compatible Context Editor. Looks like it's
been re-written in C:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ecce/

I used it once upon a time on Emas and Mouses..

Not used TECO. No plans to either :)

Gordon

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#34454

From	Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com>
Date	2014-11-16 17:38 -0500
Message-ID	<dj9i6apu9nk34ncb9kep4erdvvrcmgoudf@4ax.com>
In reply to	#34446

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:50:22 GMT, Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk>
declaimed the following:


>
>In my case the first was ECCE on a VAX. Later EDT, and better the EDT 
>emulation in EVE. A colleague swore by TECO - most others swore AT 
>TECO.
>
	Never encountered ECCE... I used SOS until it was removed from the OS
release -- when I had to pick up EDT (and later mapped the Blaise editor of
TRS-80 Alcor Pascal to look much like EDT [tricky as the numeric pad only
had three function row keys, not four])

	Think I encountered TECO on my college OS theory class... as I recall,
most commands looked like swearing...

	Having to relearn vi(m) -- never got comfortable with (micro)EMACS
<control-this-to><control-that> sequences.

-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#34456

From	Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Date	2014-11-17 00:12 +0000
Message-ID	<m4beh4$b74$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34454

On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:38:59 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> 	Having to relearn vi(m) -- never got comfortable with (micro)EMACS
> <control-this-to><control-that> sequences.
>
AFAICT microEmacs shares a partial name and about nothing else with emacs. 
Almost all its keyboard actions can be redefined to suit your keyboard by 
a combination of editing /etc/termcap and/or its config files.

microEmacs doesn't (necessarily) use those complex sequences beloved of 
emacs. Though it uses them by default, almost all can be reassigned to Fn 
keys etc. and your chosen sequences can generally be more less painlessly 
transferred to other hosts. 

Back in the days of WfW 3.1 and Win 95 the my preferred Windows editor 
was PFE, which came from British academia. It was fast, very configurable 
depending on the file extension, and would load near-infinite numbers of 
files into cascaded windows. It had capabilities for running compilers 
etc with the output returned in yet another window. Its main deficiency 
was its inability to use regular expressions for search and replacement 
matches.

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#34457

From	Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com>
Date	2014-11-16 19:53 -0600
Message-ID	<477549190437881856.412290mjmahon-aol.com@news.giganews.com>
In reply to	#34454

Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:50:22 GMT, Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk>
> declaimed the following:
> 
> 
>> 
>> In my case the first was ECCE on a VAX. Later EDT, and better the EDT 
>> emulation in EVE. A colleague swore by TECO - most others swore AT 
>> TECO.
>> 
> 	Never encountered ECCE... I used SOS until it was removed from the OS
> release -- when I had to pick up EDT (and later mapped the Blaise editor of
> TRS-80 Alcor Pascal to look much like EDT [tricky as the numeric pad only
> had three function row keys, not four])
> 
> 	Think I encountered TECO on my college OS theory class... as I recall,
> most commands looked like swearing...
> 
> 	Having to relearn vi(m) -- never got comfortable with (micro)EMACS
> <control-this-to><control-that> sequences.

Ah, control-meta-hyper-alt-<key>...great fun!
-- 
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

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#34455

From	Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl>
Date	2014-11-17 01:00 +0100
Message-ID	<p43o1sq6156v.1r99y2sd56jqn$.dlg@40tude.net>
In reply to	#34446

Op Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:50:22 GMT schreef Alan Adams:

<snip>
> These days StrongED on RISC OS, and Ovation Pro for DTP work, and if I 
> have to use Windows, Notepad++

With the NppFTP plugin in Notepad++ one can edit on Windows remote files on
the RPi.

-- 
Coos

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#34461

From	Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk>
Date	2014-11-17 12:03 +0000
Message-ID	<9479f66754.Alan.Adams@iyonix.adamshome.org.uk>
In reply to	#34455

In message <p43o1sq6156v.1r99y2sd56jqn$.dlg@40tude.net>
          Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> wrote:

> Op Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:50:22 GMT schreef Alan Adams:

> <snip>
>> These days StrongED on RISC OS, and Ovation Pro for DTP work, and if I
>> have to use Windows, Notepad++

> With the NppFTP plugin in Notepad++ one can edit on Windows remote files on
> the RPi.

That's neat. I will play with that.

-- 
Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire
alan@adamshome.org.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/

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#34496

From	druck <news@druck.org.uk>
Date	2014-11-18 20:03 +0000
Message-ID	<m4g8ls$c0k$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34446

On 16/11/2014 19:50, Alan Adams wrote:
> These days StrongED on RISC OS, and Ovation Pro for DTP work,

Bah, Zap and Impression Publisher. :-)

>  and if I have to use Windows, Notepad++

I agree with you on that one.

---druck

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#34441

From	druck <news@druck.org.uk>
Date	2014-11-16 18:20 +0000
Message-ID	<m4aptp$1l4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#34434

On 16/11/2014 15:34, Theo Markettos wrote:
> vi is horrible.  It's like one of those early 20th century electric tools
> with no safety features whatsoever, so you couldn't just pick it up and use
> it, you had to learn how to not electrocute yourself first.

The same could be said for the Unix command line. If you take the time 
to learn it, vi is enormously powerful, but if you have the attention 
span of a goldfish then use a desktop editor.
>
> There are some other command line editors about that aren't quite so bloody:
> 'nano' usually ships with most Linux distros.

A clone of DOS's EDIT for those who haven't cut the apron strings.

> emacs might come in handy here too, except its keypresses are more arcane
> and it's harder to find them out in the program.

I'll agree with you on that one.

> For some of these tools, discoverability is a complete disaster.

Easily found by putting "editor" in to a package manager search.

---druck

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csiph-web

Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi

Contents

#34437

#34436

#34442

#34445

#34451

#34460

#34462

#34464

#34438

#34439

#34444

#34446

#34453

#34454

#34456

#34457

#34455

#34461

#34496

#34441