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[PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project

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  [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 12:52 -0700
    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-02 01:37 +0200
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in pro all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2014-10-01 20:11 -0400
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:26 -0400
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 18:46 -0700
          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 18:57 -0700
            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 19:05 -0700
              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 19:49 -0700
                Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:03 -0700
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 20:15 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:33 -0700
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 20:59 -0700
                        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 21:11 -0700
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 21:23 -0700
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 00:41 -0400
                            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 22:22 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-02 12:20 +0000
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-02 16:20 +0200
                        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 08:00 -0700
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-10-03 12:16 -0700
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:02 +0200
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 15:13 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:39 +0200
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 19:11 -0400
                        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 01:32 +0200
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 16:43 -0700
                            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 01:51 +0200
                              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 17:25 -0700
                                Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 02:38 +0200
                                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 21:25 -0400
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 16:42 -0700
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-01 22:02 -1000
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 03:18 -0700
          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:57 +0200
            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 22:44 -0700
              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-02 21:42 -1000
                Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-03 16:17 -0700
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 23:28 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-04 11:25 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-04 16:44 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 18:40 -0700
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 17:30 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 19:07 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-04 21:22 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-10-05 02:05 -0700
              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 10:12 +0200
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:02 +0200
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 15:44 -0700
    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 02:45 -0700
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 05:11 -0700
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 05:14 -0700
    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-02 08:56 -0400
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 06:19 -0700
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-02 13:30 +0000
          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 08:36 -0700
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 10:49 -0700
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-02 08:24 -1000
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-02 16:03 -0400
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:18 +0200

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#33608 — [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project

I am looking for someone to help me kick StudioUI into high gear.  StudioUI is a new development environment for SwiftForth that adds a visual dimension to Forth by enabling the user to quickly create his own custom GUI's to aid in application development as well as serve as the GUI engine for applications themselves.  I will be using it to develop games and game development tools.

The program is starting to take shape but it's becoming apparent that it is too much for me alone.

I have some preliminary documentation on StudioUI on the Trello board.  (https://trello.com/b/7GYI7XaG/studioui-3)

This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo).  $1000/mo, 6-12 month contract.  Negotiable.  Potential for more, and/or profit-share if involved in games or StudioUI-based standalone applications later on.

You must:

* Have Windows 7+ or be willing to work prior to employment to get my stuff to run on previous Window versions
* Have a PC with OpenGL 2.0+ compliant video card
* Be willing and able to adopt my coding conventions
* Be willing and able to learn ForestLib (https://bitbucket.org/rogerlevy/forestlib) and Allegro 5 (http://alleg.sourceforge.net/a5docs/refman/index.html)
* Be familiar with Mercurial (use of TortoiseHg will be preferred)
* Be able to analyze and find obscure bugs as well as untangle tough program design problems.

Big plus if you have SwiftX/SwiftForth/Linux and C++ compiler knowledge and could potentially get my stuff + Allegro 5 to run on Raspberry Pi. (More money will be involved if so.)

If interested, send an email to roger.levy@gmail.com with "SwiftForth Assistant" in the subject.

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#33613

Roger Levy wrote:

> This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo).  $1000/mo, 6-12 month contract.
>  Negotiable.  Potential for more, and/or profit-share if involved in games
> or StudioUI-based standalone applications later on.

Hm, I get between $12.5 and $16.6 per hour out of your offer; what are you 
looking for?  This is barely above minimum wage.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#33614 — Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in pro

 On 02 Oct 14 at group /comp/lang/forth in article m0i38a$b1g$1@online.de
 <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>  (Bernd Paysan)  wrote:

>Roger Levy wrote:

>> This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo).  $1000/mo, 6-12 month
>>  contract. Negotiable.

>Hm, I get between $12.5 and $16.6 per hour out of your offer; what are
>you looking for?  This is barely above minimum wage.

If you pay peanuts, you should not worry about monkeys do the job :)



Saludos (an alle Vernünftigen, Rest sh. sig)
Wolfgang

-- 
Wolfgang Allinger, anerkannter Trollallergiker :) reply Adresse gesetzt!
Ich diskutiere zukünftig weniger mit Idioten, denn sie ziehen mich auf
ihr Niveau herunter und schlagen mich dort mit ihrer Erfahrung! :p
(lt. alter usenet Weisheit)      iPod, iPhone, iPad, iTunes, iRak, iDiot

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#33615

On 10/1/2014 7:37 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> Roger Levy wrote:
>
>> This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo).  $1000/mo, 6-12 month contract.
>>   Negotiable.  Potential for more, and/or profit-share if involved in games
>> or StudioUI-based standalone applications later on.
>
> Hm, I get between $12.5 and $16.6 per hour out of your offer; what are you
> looking for?  This is barely above minimum wage.

I think it is more than Hugh was making when he was a Forth programmer...

-- 

Rick

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#33617

> I think it is more than Hugh was making when he was a Forth programmer...
> Rick

Thanks Rick.

To the geniuses who pointed out that the pay is peanuts, yes, surprise, I am not a big company with deep pockets.  I have an interesting project with tons of potential.  

I live comfortably on $2000 a month.  I'd be over the moon for a gig like this.  A person with higher expenses who's very interested in Forth could sacrifice some savings to help actually do something instead of trolling comp.forth.lang every day.

TL;DR it's not all about money!

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#33619

Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes:
> I live comfortably on $2000 a month.  I'd be over the moon for a gig
> like this.  A person with higher expenses who's very interested in
> Forth could sacrifice some savings to help actually do something
> instead of trolling comp.forth.lang every day.

But they probably have projects of their own to pursue.  The idea of
working on (and accepting responsibility for) somebody else's project in
exchange for money is that it's enough money to be competitive with what
you could get doing something else.  If you're doing it for fun or
personal improvement, it's probably better to not accept any money, so
that you don't have responsibilities.

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#33620

> But they probably have projects of their own to pursue.  The idea of
> working on (and accepting responsibility for) somebody else's project in
> exchange for money is that it's enough money to be competitive with what
> you could get doing something else.  If you're doing it for fun or
> personal improvement, it's probably better to not accept any money, so
> that you don't have responsibilities.

Except that some people like to work on projects that they're interested in and like getting paid for it so that they can pay the bills and do whatever else they want with their free time.

Free open-source projects are a joke.  That experiment has proved a failure.  I want someone who would accept money IN ORDER for them to take responsibility, improving the quality of the product and helping it get done in a reasonable timeframe.

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#33622

Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes:
> Free open-source projects are a joke.  That experiment has proved a
> failure. 

Erm, what software are you running on your computer and where do you
think it came from?  You're using gmail; what software do you think is
running on the Google servers, other than the gmail application itself?

> I want someone who would accept money IN ORDER for them to
> take responsibility,

Yes, that's the idea of being employed.  One accepts money in exchange
for taking responsibility.  But if it's real responsibility for somebody
else's business venture, then it should be real money.  Otherwise it
combines the financial sacrifice of working for free with the headache
of having a job.  I could imagine doing that if there was a unique
personal opportunity or cause to be served.  But it's hard to justify
developing someone else's commercial product on such a basis.

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#33623

> Erm, what software are you running on your computer and where do you
> think it came from?  You're using gmail; what software do you think is
> running on the Google servers, other than the gmail application itself?

Uh, Micro$oft???  And applications usually run on an OS, but that doesn't mean the OS-writers wrote the applications???

> Yes, that's the idea of being employed.  One accepts money in exchange
> for taking responsibility.  But if it's real responsibility for somebody
> else's business venture, then it should be real money.  Otherwise it
> combines the financial sacrifice of working for free with the headache
> of having a job.  I could imagine doing that if there was a unique
> personal opportunity or cause to be served.  But it's hard to justify
> developing someone else's commercial product on such a basis.

Then don't apply, Paul.  

I accepted $2000 from a big vendor to spend a few weeks FT on some graphics code.  It was fun and I got paid for it.  How many Forth job offers are there on CLF?  2 including mine.  Get real.

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#33624

Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes:
>> think it came from?  You're using gmail; what software do you think is
>> running on the Google servers, other than the gmail application itself?
> Uh, Micro$oft??? 

I don't think the Google servers are running Micro$oft--in fact I know
they are running GNU/Linux.  Maybe you yourself are running Windows for
good reasons or bad, but most computers don't use it any more.  There
are now more deployed Linux systems (think of all those Android phones)
than Windows systems.

> I accepted $2000 from a big vendor to spend a few weeks FT on some
> graphics code.  It was fun and I got paid for it.

A few weeks is different from a full year.

> How many Forth job offers are there on CLF?  2 including mine.

I can't see yours as a real job offer.  It seems more like a
semi-volunteer stint with a token payment.  It would be more interesting
if it offered a lot of direct collaboration (presenting an educational
opportunity if someone was heavily interested in Forth), but that wasn't
mentioned.

Well, I'll be interested to know how many qualified applicants you get.

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#33625

You troll, Paul,  I was talking about what I was running on my computer.  That would be Windows.  Which is not free.

> Maybe you yourself are running Windows for
> good reasons or bad, but most computers don't use it any more.  
This is hilarious.  You have turned my job ad into an OS war.

> > I accepted $2000 from a big vendor to spend a few weeks FT on some
> > graphics code.  It was fun and I got paid for it.
> 
> 
> A few weeks is different from a full year.
Which would pay $12000+ and be PT???  Honestly, are you pretending to be this stupid to get my goat?

> I can't see yours as a real job offer.  It seems more like a
> semi-volunteer stint with a token payment.  It would be more interesting
> if it offered a lot of direct collaboration (presenting an educational
> opportunity if someone was heavily interested in Forth), but that wasn't
> mentioned.

Thanks for the feedback on the ad, even though it was presented negatively.  This could indeed be a paid learning opportunity.  

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#33626

Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes:
> Thanks for the feedback on the ad, even though it was presented
> negatively.  This could indeed be a paid learning opportunity.

My feeling is such opportunities are more valuable if they involve
getting to work in an office with a real expert in person, and get
significant amounts of interaction and advice.  That's worth paying for.
I did something like that at a nonprofit as an undergraduate, and it was
one of the best things I ever did.  But if it's just online and remote,
and the programmer is already experienced, it's less attractive.

GreenArrays offered a deal where they'd give you a GA144 evaluation
board if you went up to their office and developed an application and
wrote an app note about it.  They didn't pay anything but you'd get to
hang out with the GA guys and stay at the president's house, and it
sounded like a typical length for such a visit might be a week or so.
That seemed pretty cool too, and if I were more into Forth and the GA
chip I might have been seriously tempted.  I couldn't imagine keeping it
up for a year though.

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#33627

> My feeling is such opportunities are more valuable if they involve
> getting to work in an office with a real expert in person, and get
> significant amounts of interaction and advice.  That's worth paying for.
> I did something like that at a nonprofit as an undergraduate, and it was
> one of the best things I ever did.  But if it's just online and remote,
> and the programmer is already experienced, it's less attractive.
> 
> GreenArrays offered a deal where they'd give you a GA144 evaluation
> board if you went up to their office and developed an application and
> wrote an app note about it.  They didn't pay anything but you'd get to
> hang out with the GA guys and stay at the president's house, and it
> sounded like a typical length for such a visit might be a week or so.
> That seemed pretty cool too, and if I were more into Forth and the GA
> chip I might have been seriously tempted.  I couldn't imagine keeping it
> up for a year though.

I worked on a game in SwiftForth remotely with a guy in Baton Rouge for ~5 months.  I was paid peanuts because I did it for the love of Forth and also the economy is currently shit.  I assume that most people around my age can't  hop on a plane and get accommodations just to work with me in person.

Forth programmers are rare.  I do not have an office except the one in my apartment.  Who would fly to Baltimore to work with me for a couple weeks for free, or peanuts?  I didn't even consider that as something anyone would be willing to do, but I'm not against it.

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#33628

Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes:
> I worked on a game in SwiftForth remotely with a guy in Baton Rouge
> for ~5 months.  I was paid peanuts because I did it for the love of
> Forth and also the economy is currently shit.  I assume that most
> people around my age can't hop on a plane and get accommodations just
> to work with me in person.

At least where I am, the economy for programmers is pretty strong.

> Forth programmers are rare.  I do not have an office except the one in
> my apartment.  Who would fly to Baltimore to work with me for a couple
> weeks for free, or peanuts?  I didn't even consider that as something
> anyone would be willing to do, but I'm not against it.

I think that would be a more attractive proposition for someone highly
interested in Forth than the one you're currently advertising.  At my
somewhat lower interest level the travel and lodging expenses would kill
it for me, but if you were local I could imagine pursuing it.  Or if it
was in a technical area that I thought had more future value, I could
even see doing the travel thing.  

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#33629

On 10/2/2014 12:11 AM, Roger Levy wrote:
>> My feeling is such opportunities are more valuable if they involve
>> getting to work in an office with a real expert in person, and get
>> significant amounts of interaction and advice.  That's worth paying for.
>> I did something like that at a nonprofit as an undergraduate, and it was
>> one of the best things I ever did.  But if it's just online and remote,
>> and the programmer is already experienced, it's less attractive.
>>
>> GreenArrays offered a deal where they'd give you a GA144 evaluation
>> board if you went up to their office and developed an application and
>> wrote an app note about it.  They didn't pay anything but you'd get to
>> hang out with the GA guys and stay at the president's house, and it
>> sounded like a typical length for such a visit might be a week or so.
>> That seemed pretty cool too, and if I were more into Forth and the GA
>> chip I might have been seriously tempted.  I couldn't imagine keeping it
>> up for a year though.
>
> I worked on a game in SwiftForth remotely with a guy in Baton Rouge for ~5 months.  I was paid peanuts because I did it for the love of Forth and also the economy is currently shit.  I assume that most people around my age can't  hop on a plane and get accommodations just to work with me in person.
>
> Forth programmers are rare.  I do not have an office except the one in my apartment.  Who would fly to Baltimore to work with me for a couple weeks for free, or peanuts?  I didn't even consider that as something anyone would be willing to do, but I'm not against it.

A couple messages back you said Paul was trolling.  If so, you are 
feeding the troll.

So let me ask you some serious questions about your endeavor.  You say 
this will be a new development environment for SwiftForth.  Why just 
SwiftForth?  Wouldn't it be more generally useful if it supported a 
range of Forths?  Is that really so hard to do?

How do you plan to market this?  How many do you expect to sell?  Any 
idea of what your selling price will be?

I don't know much about Forth tools in general, but from what I gather 
there is not a lot of market.  It seems like there is barely enough work 
to keep two small companies going.

Finally, in what way is the work "too much" for you alone?  Is it a 
question of getting the work done quicker?  If that were the case I'd 
think you would want to get someone working on it full time.  Are you 
looking for some expertise you don't have?

I'm not asking these questions because I am interested in the job.   I 
don't feel at all qualified relative to your requirements.  I'm always 
curious about what motivates people to do projects.  If you don't feel 
like answering, that's perfectly ok.

-- 

Rick

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#33630

> So let me ask you some serious questions about your endeavor.  You say 
> this will be a new development environment for SwiftForth.  Why just 
> SwiftForth?  Wouldn't it be more generally useful if it supported a 
> range of Forths?  Is that really so hard to do?

Ideally it would become a standalone Forth eventually.  My capacity is finite and the project is very new.  I mean it is really, really new.  Juggling knowledge about more than one Forth is beyond what I can ask of myself and not go crazy from how much time that would add.  What's important is finishing it.  Then worry about porting it.

I am not against it running on other Forths but it is a question of time.  I'm not the one to do it.  Thus there are some SwiftForth dependencies, done in the interest of saving time.  I try to keep it light but I just can't manage the demands of multiple hosts.  I imagine porting it won't be hard for a person knowledgable in another Forth.  I don't want to learn other Forths, I wear enough hats already.  (Game designer, musician, coder...)

> How do you plan to market this?  How many do you expect to sell?  Any 
> idea of what your selling price will be?

Funny I just sat down to think about this kind of stuff. I'm thinking that it will not initially be for sale, only applications made with it, by me.  When it becomes mature and standalone, I would offer it publicly and the price point will be somewhere between $20 and $80, probably with an intro price.  Or I might release it for free.

It's really important to note that I am developing this not to sell but to make money indirectly - i.e. with the stuff that is made with it.  I'm betting on it speeding up and improving the game development process enough to justify all this up-front work I'm putting in.

> I don't know much about Forth tools in general, but from what I gather 
> there is not a lot of market.  It seems like there is barely enough work 
> to keep two small companies going.

That's okay.  Again, the tool is primarily for me and maybe a handful of others to start.  For at least a year.  

Forth is outdated.  ForestLib is a stride toward updating it, or at least providing a case study for discussion.  I really enjoy working in it.  Getting people to try Forth/ForestLib/StudioUI these days requires proof that it would be worth their time.

> Finally, in what way is the work "too much" for you alone?  Is it a 
> question of getting the work done quicker?  If that were the case I'd 
> think you would want to get someone working on it full time.  Are you 
> looking for some expertise you don't have?

I found out I'm a poor systems programmer and I just can't keep abreast of everything - and there's a lot, look at the Trello board I linked to in the OP.  This project is essentially an umbilical operating system.  You are intended to spend most of your time in it instead of the host OS.  It is intended to eventually replace SwiftForth's IDE.  I went through so many revisions just getting the low level stuff involving the management of widgets and untangling bugs it became apparent I wasn't the best man for the job - it's really tough to direct the design of a thing of this size and be responsible for coding and debugging it too.  Besides the difficulty of coding, many questions are tough to answer alone - I have a friend I sometimes discuss things with.  Having a dedicated assistant I could bother some days of the week would be better.  Questions such as, what effects a certain widget attribute should have on certain operations.

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#33639

In article <7xwq8jduvt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes:
>>> think it came from?  You're using gmail; what software do you think is
>>> running on the Google servers, other than the gmail application itself?
>> Uh, Micro$oft???
>
>I don't think the Google servers are running Micro$oft--in fact I know
>they are running GNU/Linux.  Maybe you yourself are running Windows for
>good reasons or bad, but most computers don't use it any more.  There
>are now more deployed Linux systems (think of all those Android phones)
>than Windows systems.
>
>> I accepted $2000 from a big vendor to spend a few weeks FT on some
>> graphics code.  It was fun and I got paid for it.
>
>A few weeks is different from a full year.
>
>> How many Forth job offers are there on CLF?  2 including mine.
>
>I can't see yours as a real job offer.  It seems more like a
>semi-volunteer stint with a token payment.  It would be more interesting
>if it offered a lot of direct collaboration (presenting an educational
>opportunity if someone was heavily interested in Forth), but that wasn't
>mentioned.
>
>Well, I'll be interested to know how many qualified applicants you get.

I think the offer is interesting, but I'm drowning in my own projects.

The calculation of Bernd Paysan is off. He could do the work in 1/3 of
the time (I know) and nobody would notice, which would tiple the hourly
rate.

If all fair ( and I'm pretty sure the OP is not a lawyer), the
offer to get a share in a potential interesting project is fair enough
to set any jobless programmer thinking.

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#33645

Albert van der Horst wrote:
> The calculation of Bernd Paysan is off. He could do the work in 1/3 of
> the time (I know) and nobody would notice, which would tiple the hourly
> rate.

Haha.  Hiding the progress is probably then the toughest part.

Getting higher hourly rates from being faster is what I found pretty tough 
in my career.  The boss at Mikron did understand this, after some discussion 
with other people in the team, and decided to charge the customers twice for 
every Bernd-hour.  The estimation of my coworkers however was that a Bernd-
hour was five times as much as their hours.  Getting just twice the salary 
kept them from being too jealous.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#33646

Bernd, what kinds of applications did you work on?

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#33681

On Thursday, October 2, 2014 11:00:57 AM UTC-4, Roger Levy wrote:
> Bernd, what kinds of applications did you work on?

Roger, it's always good to do some research before starting a project.

My suggestion: google for 

Visual Forth Bernd 

Cheers,
Dirk.

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