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Apple's top secret Swift language

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  Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 18:30 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-06 15:47 -1000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 18:55 -0700
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 05:12 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-07 10:58 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 11:11 -0700
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 18:06 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Zbigniew <empty.buffersYOU-DONT-WANT-THIS@gmail.NEITHER-THIS.com> - 2014-06-08 09:00 +0000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 14:46 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-07 15:05 -0700
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-07 18:30 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 22:41 -0400
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-07 02:20 -0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 04:20 -0400
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-07 07:04 -0400
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-07 15:05 +0200
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 06:43 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 09:58 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-07 11:14 -0700
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 18:15 -0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-08 22:46 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-09 13:12 +0000
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 14:13 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-09 12:48 -1000
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 20:49 -0400
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-09 18:54 -0700
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-09 18:41 -0700
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 20:05 -0700
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language anonymous <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-10 00:21 -0400
                Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-09 18:43 -1000
                  Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-10 01:31 -0400
                  Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-10 15:55 -0700
                    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-10 16:32 -0700
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-10 16:49 -0700
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-10 16:28 -1000
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-11 18:51 -0400
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-11 19:22 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-11 20:10 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-06-10 00:37 +0000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-06-10 09:17 +0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language babruehl@gmail.com - 2014-06-11 20:14 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-11 20:48 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 01:24 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-11 20:28 -1000
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-06-12 12:00 +0100
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-12 15:06 +0200
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 13:22 -0400
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-16 13:34 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-07-21 14:16 -1000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-07-21 21:39 -0700
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 07:49 +0300
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 02:21 -0400
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-22 04:10 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-07-21 22:09 -1000
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualFORTH.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-07-23 18:59 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-07-21 21:11 -1000
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2014-07-22 11:23 +0200
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Buz Powers <wpowers@ll.mit.edu> - 2014-07-24 10:58 -0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-25 11:35 -0700

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#31249 — Apple's top secret Swift language

Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?

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#31250

On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>

No. However, FORTH, Inc. has taken note of the unfortunate choice of 
name on Apple's part, and are taking appropriate steps. You'd think 
someone at Apple would know how to use Google!

Aloha,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#31251

On Friday, June 6, 2014 9:47:58 PM UTC-4, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
> 
> > Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> No. However, FORTH, Inc. has taken note of the unfortunate choice of 
> 
> name on Apple's part, and are taking appropriate steps. You'd think 
> 
> someone at Apple would know how to use Google!
> 
> 
> 
> Aloha,
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
> 
> FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
> 
> 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
> 
> Los Angeles, CA 90045
> 
> http://www.forth.com
> 
> 
> 
> "Forth-based products and Services for real-time
> 
> applications since 1973."
> 
> ==================================================

Good to know!

Everything should be done for publicity!

Cheers,
Dirk.

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#31268

Go get 'em, 'Lizzy :-)

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#31273

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 5:12:59 AM UTC-7, Mark Wills wrote:
> Go get 'em, 'Lizzy :-)

Apple should have called their language "Quick" instead.

Go get 'em, 'Lizzy :^O

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#31275

> Apple should have called their language "Quick" instead.
> Go get 'em, 'Lizzy :^O

Too obvious and funny!

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#31285

On 6/7/2014 2:11 PM, Clyde W. Phillips Jr. wrote:
>> Apple should have called their language "Quick" instead.
>> Go get 'em, 'Lizzy :^O
>
> Too obvious and funny!

Apple already has a Quicktime video tool, no?  Not sure if that would be 
good or bad.  They probably don't want to have the two confused.

-- 

Rick

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#31292

In comp.lang.forth, Clyde W. Phillips Jr. wrote:

>> Apple should have called their language "Quick" instead.
>> Go get 'em, 'Lizzy :^O
>
> Too obvious and funny!

What about "Fluffy"?
-- 
May the Forth be with you!

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#31281

On Friday, June 6, 2014 9:47:58 PM UTC-4, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
> 
> > Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> No. However, FORTH, Inc. has taken note of the unfortunate choice of 
> 
> name on Apple's part, and are taking appropriate steps. You'd think 
> 
> someone at Apple would know how to use Google!
> 
> 
> 
> Aloha,
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
> 
> FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
> 
> 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
> 
> Los Angeles, CA 90045
> 
> http://www.forth.com
> 
> 
> 
> "Forth-based products and Services for real-time
> 
> applications since 1973."
> 
> ==================================================

I just got the message that yesterday a Meetup SWIFT Programming group in San Mateo, CA, organized by Carlos Icaza, has been started:  
http://www.meetup.com/SWIFTProgramming/

May be we have some Swift Forth users at c.l.f. - they could start a SWIFT Forth Progamming group?

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#31282

Does Apple want to take away the Forth Inc name for their programming language?  

I state that it now becomes OK to *DIS* on Apple.

I found this.

"Worked For Atari"
"Known as Scuzzy Guy Due to Poor Hygiene"
http://www.kzoz.com/jeff-and-jeremy/2013/01/09/ 

Forth helped get the Mac off the ground.  Many early Mac applications were written in Forth.  Now they do this?

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#31283

On Friday, June 6, 2014 6:47:58 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
> > Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
> 
> No. However, FORTH, Inc. has taken note of the unfortunate choice of 
> name on Apple's part, and are taking appropriate steps. You'd think 
> someone at Apple would know how to use Google!
> 
> Aloha,
> Elizabeth

The only chance that Forth Inc. has to make money, is by suing people --- you can't make money legitimately, by writing computer programs, because you aren't any good at programming --- so you do what most liberals do, which is lob lawsuits at random targets, whining continuously about being a victim.

People go to college for computer programming, and they graduate without having ever heard of the Forth programming language. When I have told people that I am a Forth programmer, they typically think that I am mispronouncing "Fortran." Realistically, how likely is it that anybody at Apple has ever heard of Forth, much less SwiftForth? I did google "swift programming" and I didn't find SwiftForth. Forth Inc. is a very obscure company, and for good reason.

The word "swift" is pretty generic; I don't think your lawsuit is going to succeed. Maybe you can hire Passanitti to say that Apple's programming language "sucks," and when somebody at Apple complains that this is inappropriate language, you can sue Apple for being homophobic. Go get 'em Liberal Lizzie!

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#31255

On 6/6/2014 9:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?

Yeah, trademarks are one of those things that is use it (and defend it) 
or lose it.  If you don't defend others infringement you lose your 
trademark.

I am next door to a mom and pop burger place that used to be named 
"Cheeseburgers 'n Paradise".  Then Jimmy Buffet's lawyers found out 
about them and they exchanged some letters.  It is now called "Beef 'n 
Buns in Paradise".  lol  Their business is no worse for the change I 
think, same mural on the outside wall too.  But JB's lawyers didn't have 
a choice in the matter.  He has a chain of restaurants and if they 
didn't stop this guy from using the name, anyone would have been able to 
open a restaurant with the same name.

-- 

Rick

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#31258

On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 22:41:49 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/6/2014 9:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?

> Yeah, trademarks are one of those things that is use it (and defend
> it) or lose it.  If you don't defend others infringement you lose
> your trademark.
>
> I am next door to a mom and pop burger place that used to be named
> "Cheeseburgers 'n Paradise".  Then Jimmy Buffet's lawyers found out
> about them and they exchanged some letters.  It is now called "Beef 'n
> Buns in Paradise".  lol  Their business is no worse for the change
> I think, same mural on the outside wall too.  But JB's lawyers didn't
> have a choice in the matter.  He has a chain of restaurants and if
> they didn't stop this guy from using the name, anyone would have been
> able to open a restaurant with the same name.
>

Hamburger joints...

Richard, you're so on-topic, yet again, I see.  There
is nothing like discussing Forth.  You're so good at it.
Hey, why don't we just go ahead discuss McDonald's?
I could talk about their food for a while, for real.
Richard, would you have any objections to that? ...

As for the restaurant you mentioned, they opened in 1995,
while Buffett's chain opened in 2002.  The house next to
your house probably had legal standing.

Here, I'll go ahead and post your links for you, since
you're "dying" to do so anyway:

"Beef 'n Buns in Paradise"
http://www.beefnbunsnparadise.com/

Arius
http://www.arius.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ariusinc

You _could_ put those in your signature, but not the
"Beef 'n Buns in Paradise" one or someone might think
you're a male stripper.

Hey, wouldn't you rather be kayaking for a living?
That'd be the life, right?  Buy a GoPro camera, pick
some famous and not-so-famous U.S. rivers, put up
some videos on Youtube, have a few minutes of video
fame for capturing some rare bird or tree, or a Asian
carp busting up your new, expensive camera, and earn a
few cents from video ads.  Well, from your resume, it
would seem you are kayaking for a living, or would
rather be kayaking than working for a living.  You've
still got at least another five to seven to go to retire.

Please don't harass him by calling his phone numbers
or spamming his emails.  It's not like he spams c.l.f.


Rod Pemberton

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#31259

On 6/7/2014 2:20 AM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 22:41:49 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/6/2014 9:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>
>> Yeah, trademarks are one of those things that is use it (and defend
>> it) or lose it.  If you don't defend others infringement you lose
>> your trademark.
>>
>> I am next door to a mom and pop burger place that used to be named
>> "Cheeseburgers 'n Paradise".  Then Jimmy Buffet's lawyers found out
>> about them and they exchanged some letters.  It is now called "Beef 'n
>> Buns in Paradise".  lol  Their business is no worse for the change
>> I think, same mural on the outside wall too.  But JB's lawyers didn't
>> have a choice in the matter.  He has a chain of restaurants and if
>> they didn't stop this guy from using the name, anyone would have been
>> able to open a restaurant with the same name.
>>
>
> Hamburger joints...
>
> Richard, you're so on-topic, yet again, I see.  There
> is nothing like discussing Forth.  You're so good at it.
> Hey, why don't we just go ahead discuss McDonald's?
> I could talk about their food for a while, for real.
> Richard, would you have any objections to that? ...
>
> As for the restaurant you mentioned, they opened in 1995,
> while Buffett's chain opened in 2002.  The house next to
> your house probably had legal standing.
>
> Here, I'll go ahead and post your links for you, since
> you're "dying" to do so anyway:
>
> "Beef 'n Buns in Paradise"
> http://www.beefnbunsnparadise.com/
>
> Arius
> http://www.arius.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ariusinc
>
> You _could_ put those in your signature, but not the
> "Beef 'n Buns in Paradise" one or someone might think
> you're a male stripper.
>
> Hey, wouldn't you rather be kayaking for a living?
> That'd be the life, right?  Buy a GoPro camera, pick
> some famous and not-so-famous U.S. rivers, put up
> some videos on Youtube, have a few minutes of video
> fame for capturing some rare bird or tree, or a Asian
> carp busting up your new, expensive camera, and earn a
> few cents from video ads.  Well, from your resume, it
> would seem you are kayaking for a living, or would
> rather be kayaking than working for a living.  You've
> still got at least another five to seven to go to retire.
>
> Please don't harass him by calling his phone numbers
> or spamming his emails.  It's not like he spams c.l.f.
>
>

The really weird part of this is that I just watched an episode of "The 
Mentalist"... you know, the show with the serial killer who stalks 
Patrick Jane...

Too bad you are just soooooo totally inept as a stalker.  I'm already 
retired for all practical purposes.

-- 

Rick

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#31263

On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 04:20:29 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

> Too bad you are just soooooo totally inept as a stalker.

Who's stalking?  Forgetful?  You told "us" that you worked for Arius:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.forth/HurNMFo_qsM/gqJT1ys7gV0J
msg-id 396EAD0E.9CDE5614@yahoo.com


Rod Pemberton

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#31270

rickman wrote:

> On 6/6/2014 9:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
> 
> Yeah, trademarks are one of those things that is use it (and defend it)
> or lose it.  If you don't defend others infringement you lose your
> trademark.

You actually have a second option: You can sublicense a trademark.  That 
way, you get a fee (how much doesn't need to be disclosed in public), and 
your trademark is still protected, even though the other party can use it.

If I was Forth Inc., I would do so.  This prevents Apple from actually 
owning "Swift", and at the same time they can continue to use it.  They 
won't be in the position to block anybody else (e.g. someone who releases a 
"GNU Swift" - these people would just need to go to Forth Inc. to buy a 
sublicense), but could keep using that name.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#31271

That sounds like a good idea. Might be preferable to a full-on legal fight with Apple, as ultimately (and unfortunately) these things are often won by those with the deepest pockets when it comes to litigation. 

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#31272

On 6/7/2014 9:43 AM, Mark Wills wrote:
> That sounds like a good idea. Might be preferable to a full-on legal fight with Apple, as ultimately (and unfortunately) these things are often won by those with the deepest pockets when it comes to litigation.

I seriously doubt Apple would accept such a sublicense.  They won't want 
anyone else coming out with a "Swift" language of their own.  But who 
knows?  It will be interesting seeing what happens.

-- 

Rick

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#31276

On Saturday, June 7, 2014 9:58:36 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
> On 6/7/2014 9:43 AM, Mark Wills wrote:
> > That sounds like a good idea. Might be preferable to a full-on legal fight with Apple, as ultimately (and unfortunately) these things are often won by those with the deepest pockets when it comes to litigation.
> 
> I seriously doubt Apple would accept such a sublicense.  They won't want 
> anyone else coming out with a "Swift" language of their own.  But who 
> knows?  It will be interesting seeing what happens.

From confrontation to cooperation - I minced these words at the electronica fair in Munich in the eighties, and Todor Shergovsky made it even more complete:
From confrontation over communication to cooperation.

What I like to say: it is good to get in friendly contact with Apple Inc., may be reminding them on the early days when Mitch Bradley introduced Forth to Apple Inc. supporting their success, and may be getting  a result like having Forth running on their gadgets.

By the way, there is a trucking company: "Swift Trucking", see http://www.swifttrans.com/

May be it need some research if Swift Forth or Swift Trucking was earlier. 
Swift Programming Language surely was the last one, and Jonathan Swift the first. And there is Swift Engineering, Swift Bus Rapid Transit, and, last but not least, the "Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication". 

It's an interesting story, and if I would own Forth Inc., I would do everything to get out of the cave, end hiding, cutting Gulliver's chains.

Wasn't it a while ago when some people claimed that Forth Inc. doesn't have enough money for public relations? Now the time is there, don't let slip it away!

Cheers,
Dirk.

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#31286

On 6/7/2014 2:14 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:
> By the way, there is a trucking company: "Swift Trucking", see http://www.swifttrans.com/
>
> May be it need some research if Swift Forth or Swift Trucking was earlier.
> Swift Programming Language surely was the last one, and Jonathan Swift the first. And there is Swift Engineering, Swift Bus Rapid Transit, and, last but not least, the "Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication".

All these Swifts are not relevant.   A trademark conflict only applies 
in the relevant field or if there would be some "irreparable harm" from 
the use of the name.  So surely "Swift" language and "Swift Forth" 
compiler are in conflict since there will be a similar tool for the 
"Swift" language and it would be expected that many would confuse the 
two products.  But Swift Trucking is clearly not in conflict as it would 
take a rather dense person to confuse the two products.

Of course it is  not always about what is right or wrong.  Sometimes it 
is about who has the bigger cojones and more lawyers.  :(


> It's an interesting story, and if I would own Forth Inc., I would do everything to get out of the cave, end hiding, cutting Gulliver's chains.
>
> Wasn't it a while ago when some people claimed that Forth Inc. doesn't have enough money for public relations? Now the time is there, don't let slip it away!

It is not an absolute that "any publicity is good publicity".  But I 
expect this would give Forth Inc a bit of a shot in the arm.  It might 
work out best if they didn't stop Apple but rather took advantage of the 
exposure and confusion.

-- 

Rick

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