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New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore

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  New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 13:23 -0700
    Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Christian Kellermann <ckeen@pestilenz.org> - 2014-05-22 22:38 +0200
      Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-22 21:44 +0100
    Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 01:13 -0700
      Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 01:19 -0700
        Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 01:37 -0700
          Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 01:54 -0700
            Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 02:16 -0700
            Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-28 09:06 -1000
              Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-07-02 13:33 -0700
                Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-07-02 13:34 -1000
                  Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-07-02 23:16 -0700
                    Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-07-03 13:11 -0700
    Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-05-30 00:01 -0700
      Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 02:20 -0700
        Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-05-30 03:05 -0700
          Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 03:21 -0700
    Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-05-30 00:12 -0700
      Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-05-30 00:35 -0700
        Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-31 10:40 -0700
    Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-05-30 11:33 +0100
      Re: New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-05-30 04:32 -0700

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#30588 — New Forth Book Written by Charles Moore

I stumbled upon this today at Amazon. It's an eBook

Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language 

http://www.amazon.com/Forth-Background-information-beginnings-Computer-ebook/dp/B00JZI64U8%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJ6B7MBOFQFSIL6PQ%26tag%3Distitforthead-20%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZI64U8

Try the long URL (yuck) or try the title in the search box at Amazon. 

Author: Charles H Moore
Kindle Price: 	$1.99 
Publication Date: April 27, 2014
Print Length: 27 pages

Jason

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#30589

Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> writes:

> I stumbled upon this today at Amazon. It's an eBook
>
> Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language 
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Forth-Background-information-beginnings-Computer-ebook/dp/B00JZI64U8%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJ6B7MBOFQFSIL6PQ%26tag%3Distitforthead-20%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZI64U8
>
> Try the long URL (yuck) or try the title in the search box at Amazon. 
>
> Author: Charles H Moore
> Kindle Price: 	$1.99 
> Publication Date: April 27, 2014
> Print Length: 27 pages

I wonder whether it is really different from the HOPL paper Chuck has
published on colorforth.com. As that domain is not reachable for me atm,
please see the archive.org [1] for reference.

Kind regards,

Christian

[1]: http://web.archive.org/web/20140429043342/http://www.colorforth.com/HOPL.html

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#30590

on 22/05/2014 21:39:01, Christian Kellermann wrote:
> Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
>> I stumbled upon this today at Amazon. It's an eBook
>>
>> Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Forth-Background-information-beginnings-Computer-ebook/dp/B00JZI64U8%3FSubscriptionId

%3DAKIAJ6B7MBOFQFSIL6PQ%26tag%3Distitforthead-20%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZI64U8
>>
>> Try the long URL (yuck) or try the title in the search box at Amazon.
>>
>> Author: Charles H Moore
>> Kindle Price: 	$1.99
>> Publication Date: April 27, 2014
>> Print Length: 27 pages
> 
> I wonder whether it is really different from the HOPL paper Chuck has
> published on colorforth.com. As that domain is not reachable for me
> atm, please see the archive.org [1] for reference.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Christian
> 
> [1]:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20140429043342/http://www.colorforth.com/HOPL.html
> 

The "Look Inside" would suggest it's identical.
http://www.colorforth.com/HOPL.html

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#30870

On Thursday, 22 May 2014 21:23:37 UTC+1, Jason Damisch  wrote:
> I stumbled upon this today at Amazon. It's an eBook
> 
> 
> 
> Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Forth-Background-information-beginnings-Computer-ebook/dp/B00JZI64U8%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJ6B7MBOFQFSIL6PQ%26tag%3Distitforthead-20%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZI64U8
> 
> 
> 
> Try the long URL (yuck) or try the title in the search box at Amazon. 
> 
> 
> 
> Author: Charles H Moore
> 
> Kindle Price: 	$1.99 
> 
> Publication Date: April 27, 2014
> 
> Print Length: 27 pages
> 
> 
> 
> Jason

There's a second one:

Programming A Problem Oriented Language: Forth - how the internals work 

http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Problem-Oriented-Language-internals-ebook/dp/B00K3PIYX2/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kstore_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=08F1DTR3R9WJNQDCNBMJ

170 pages. $4.11

I bought both. It'll be nice to have them on my kindle and smartphone.

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#30872

Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> writes:
> Programming A Problem Oriented Language: Forth - how the internals work 
> 170 pages. $4.11
> I bought both. It'll be nice to have them on my kindle and smartphone.

That one is also online:

http://www.forth.org/POL.pdf

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#30873

Sure. It's nice to have them on the kindle though. And at a little over £3 (~$5) it's not going to break the bank ;-)

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#30878

Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> writes:
> Sure. It's nice to have them on the kindle though. And at a little
> over £3 (~$5) it's not going to break the bank ;-)

You can easily kindle-ize a pdf for free and there are many programs
around that do that.

It doesn't seem nice for someone to be charging for it under the
circumstances.  I wonder if they bothered to get Chuck's permission.  I
wonder if they bothered telling you where you can download the file
yourself.

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#30881

It does say in the documents that Charles Moore gave his permission, so I was okay with it.

The Kindle can read PDFs directly; no need to convert them to native Kindle format, though it's not as convenient as native Kindle format (which I believe is some form of HTML type markup).

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#30919

On 5/27/14 10:54 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> writes:
>> Sure. It's nice to have them on the kindle though. And at a little
>> over £3 (~$5) it's not going to break the bank ;-)
>
> You can easily kindle-ize a pdf for free and there are many programs
> around that do that.
>
> It doesn't seem nice for someone to be charging for it under the
> circumstances.  I wonder if they bothered to get Chuck's permission.  I
> wonder if they bothered telling you where you can download the file
> yourself.
>

There's a fair amt of labor involved in making a book into a Kindle 
file. It's reasonable to get paid for it. But certainly Chuck's 
permission should be involved, and it would be best if he got some of 
the revenue.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#32131

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:06:23 PM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 5/27/14 10:54 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
> > Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >> Sure. It's nice to have them on the kindle though. And at a little
> 
> >> over £3 (~$5) it's not going to break the bank ;-)
> 
> >
> 
> > You can easily kindle-ize a pdf for free and there are many programs
> 
> > around that do that.
> 
> >
> 
> > It doesn't seem nice for someone to be charging for it under the
> 
> > circumstances.  I wonder if they bothered to get Chuck's permission.  I
> 
> > wonder if they bothered telling you where you can download the file
> 
> > yourself.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> There's a fair amt of labor involved in making a book into a Kindle 
> 
> file. It's reasonable to get paid for it. But certainly Chuck's 
> 
> permission should be involved, and it would be best if he got some of 
> 
> the revenue.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
> 
> FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
> 
> 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
> 
> Los Angeles, CA 90045
> 
> http://www.forth.com
> 
> 
> 
> "Forth-based products and Services for real-time
> 
> applications since 1973."
> 
> ==================================================

Sorry Elizabeth - you let unused for 20 to 30 years, somebody does the effort, 
obviously gets the ok before publishing, and now you complain?? Which revenue?

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#32136

On 7/2/14 10:33 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:06:23 PM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
...
>> There's a fair amt of labor involved in making a book into a Kindle
>> file. It's reasonable to get paid for it. But certainly Chuck's
>> permission should be involved, and it would be best if he got some of
>> the revenue.

>
> Sorry Elizabeth - you let unused for 20 to 30 years, somebody does the effort,
> obviously gets the ok before publishing, and now you complain?? Which revenue?

You are having this discussion with the wrong person. Chuck wrote it, it 
is his permission you need, and Chuck who should get any revenue there 
may be.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#32140

On Thursday, July 3, 2014 12:34:36 AM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 7/2/14 10:33 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:06:23 PM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> >> There's a fair amt of labor involved in making a book into a Kindle
> 
> >> file. It's reasonable to get paid for it. But certainly Chuck's
> 
> >> permission should be involved, and it would be best if he got some of
> 
> >> the revenue.
> 
> 
> 
> >
> 
> > Sorry Elizabeth - you let unused for 20 to 30 years, somebody does the effort,
> 
> > obviously gets the ok before publishing, and now you complain?? Which revenue?
> 
> 
> 
> You are having this discussion with the wrong person. Chuck wrote it, it 
> 
> is his permission you need, and Chuck who should get any revenue there 
> 
> may be.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ==================================================
> 
> Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
> 
> FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
> 
> 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
> 
> Los Angeles, CA 90045
> 
> http://www.forth.com
> 
> 
> 
> "Forth-based products and Services for real-time
> 
> applications since 1973."
> 
> ==================================================

I just find it very unusual that you imply I would follow illegal procedures, implying I did not ask for permission.

Just to update you and the rest of the community here.
I asked Chuck for book number one - granted by Chuck before publication
I asked Chuck for book 2 - granted by Chuck before publication
I asked Leo Wong for the tutorial - granted before publication, and Leo actually handed over the copyright to me so I could do more modifications and add to it.

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#32174

On Thursday, July 3, 2014 7:16:23 AM UTC+1, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Thursday, July 3, 2014 12:34:36 AM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> 
> > On 7/2/14 10:33 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > > On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:06:23 PM UTC+1, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > ...
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> There's a fair amt of labor involved in making a book into a Kindle
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> file. It's reasonable to get paid for it. But certainly Chuck's
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> permission should be involved, and it would be best if he got some of
> 
> > 
> 
> > >> the revenue.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > >
> 
> > 
> 
> > > Sorry Elizabeth - you let unused for 20 to 30 years, somebody does the effort,
> 
> > 
> 
> > > obviously gets the ok before publishing, and now you complain?? Which revenue?
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > You are having this discussion with the wrong person. Chuck wrote it, it 
> 
> > 
> 
> > is his permission you need, and Chuck who should get any revenue there 
> 
> > 
> 
> > may be.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Cheers,
> 
> > 
> 
> > Elizabeth
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ==================================================
> 
> > 
> 
> > Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
> 
> > 
> 
> > FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
> 
> > 
> 
> > 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
> 
> > 
> 
> > Los Angeles, CA 90045
> 
> > 
> 
> > http://www.forth.com
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > "Forth-based products and Services for real-time
> 
> > 
> 
> > applications since 1973."
> 
> > 
> 
> > ==================================================
> 
> 
> 
> I just find it very unusual that you imply I would follow illegal procedures, implying I did not ask for permission.
> 
> 
> 
> Just to update you and the rest of the community here.
> 
> I asked Chuck for book number one - granted by Chuck before publication
> 
> I asked Chuck for book 2 - granted by Chuck before publication
> 
> I asked Leo Wong for the tutorial - granted before publication, and Leo actually handed over the copyright to me so I could do more modifications and add to it.

... oh, and just to complete the picture, and as you are part of FORTH INC.: I asked Leon and got his permission to publish the Starting Forth PDF - in contrast to other PDF versions that were and probably still are there on the web.
Just the professional way we work.

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#31004

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:23:37 PM UTC+1, Jason Damisch wrote:
> I stumbled upon this today at Amazon. It's an eBook
> 
> 
> 
> Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Forth-Background-information-beginnings-Computer-ebook/dp/B00JZI64U8%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJ6B7MBOFQFSIL6PQ%26tag%3Distitforthead-20%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZI64U8
> 
> 
> 
> Try the long URL (yuck) or try the title in the search box at Amazon. 
> 
> 
> 
> Author: Charles H Moore
> 
> Kindle Price: 	$1.99 
> 
> Publication Date: April 27, 2014
> 
> Print Length: 27 pages
> 
> 
> 
> Jason


Hi All,
as I am the one who did the work and published it, I joined the group now to give some background to it, as I got feedback about this thread.

When I started looking at Forth again in 2012 I was surprised how little there was to be found in one location to learn myself. Beginner's level, background ...

Well, as I looked myself I decided why not collect and display it for others to use.
You can find it as it is now on www.exemark.com.

I like a printed version and pagination, so did it myself, pagination, all. And I am probably the only one having a version professionally printed and bound - for the fun of it. And by the way that was not free either. 
A lot of work to prepare such a book, and get the spelling of the original right - try it yourself.

So you could find the Early Years, the Programming ... as PDFs and free

And I even went through the pain of doing the same for Starting Forth.

In each case the relevant people were asked if ok for publishing - and Chuck has definitely given his ok. As well did FORTH INC for Starting Forth

I got requests that people wanted to have Starting Forth on their own website for download - there was a NO from Leon, only on the ExMark website, so I found the way around with the one pager and the link to my website. As well oked by Leon.


As one of the links further up shows, my PDFs end up on other peoples website WITHOUT giving recognition for the work done - fine with me.

In contrast to other people on this thread I think nothing in this world is free, it all needs the energy to be done, one of the basic laws in physics  - so somebody will pay for it. I did already.

Anyway

Thinking about how to to widen the accessibility of this documentation and to to bring it into the world of tablets I started the project amazon. And Chuck gave the ok here as well. As well that they would not be for free. Ask a marketing agency how much it would cost to do this work. 

Has it made any money yet ? No 
Will it ever? Unclear.
Will it promote Forth? Yes
How many of the Forth community or on comp.lang.forth are interested in this promotion? 
        I would like to know
Will it widen accessibility for tablets usage? Yes
Can you do more on a tablet with it then just reading the PDF? Yes
Will it start discussions why not free? Yes
Do I bother? No, I knew it would happen

As usual, anything that is free has no value, 
but we all want things for free 

You do not like to pay for it - do not buy it. 

Chuck's information was around for how many years? 
Even Starting Forth on the website. 
But not for off-line usage, or making notes, whatever.

I like Forth and as I am working with Stephen now I started press work as well. Just ask Google for MPE FREE COMPILERS

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#31013

Thanks for posting, Juergen.

I personally am pleased that they are now
available for purchase and I am happy with
my purchases. I wish you success.

Mark

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#31018

On Friday, May 30, 2014 10:20:36 AM UTC+1, Mark Wills wrote:
> Thanks for posting, Juergen.
> 
> 
> 
> I personally am pleased that they are now
> 
> available for purchase and I am happy with
> 
> my purchases. I wish you success.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark

Thanks for the feedback. 

The next one being worked on is a Forth Tutorial. Probably not for many in this group, but looking at a beginner's requirements again. 
And with examples running on FREE MPE and the results in the book, so you can look at it in the book only - or have it on your screen, start VFX, copy and paste and run in VFX.

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#31020

On Friday, 30 May 2014 11:05:41 UTC+1, JUERGEN  wrote:
> The next one being worked on is a Forth Tutorial. Probably not for many in this group, but looking at a beginner's requirements again. 
> 
> And with examples running on FREE MPE and the results in the book, so you can look at it in the book only - or have it on your screen, start VFX, copy and paste and run in VFX.

I may be able to help you with that. If you're interested in
any assistance, that is. Please contact me offline:

mark wills 1970 at gmail dot com

Mark

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#31005

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:23:37 PM UTC+1, Jason Damisch wrote:
> I stumbled upon this today at Amazon. It's an eBook
> 
> 
> 
> Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Forth-Background-information-beginnings-Computer-ebook/dp/B00JZI64U8%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJ6B7MBOFQFSIL6PQ%26tag%3Distitforthead-20%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZI64U8
> 
> 
> 
> Try the long URL (yuck) or try the title in the search box at Amazon. 
> 
> 
> 
> Author: Charles H Moore
> 
> Kindle Price: 	$1.99 
> 
> Publication Date: April 27, 2014
> 
> Print Length: 27 pages
> 
> 
> 
> Jason

There are short links to both eBooks:

Early Years   	goo.gl/y2Zlud

Programming a Problem Oriented Language goo.gl/SVRdyF

The third one is a new project, this was just published, not Forth yet	
MyCo  Starting Programming for beginners - and ported to Forth soon
	goo.gl/vnuivT
Just for fun, a "handheld" computer lowest end possible, no PC, no keyboard, no display, just 4 LEDs and 3 switches and you can program it, a veeeery small PLC.
Why did I add it in here? We will port it fronm C to Forth as exercise.
... and YES, the C code and the Forth code will be free.

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#31006

On Friday, May 30, 2014 8:12:32 AM UTC+1, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:23:37 PM UTC+1, Jason Damisch wrote:
> 
> > I stumbled upon this today at Amazon. It's an eBook
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Forth - The Early Years: Background information about the beginnings of this Computer Language 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > http://www.amazon.com/Forth-Background-information-beginnings-Computer-ebook/dp/B00JZI64U8%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJ6B7MBOFQFSIL6PQ%26tag%3Distitforthead-20%26linkCode%3Dsp1%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00JZI64U8
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Try the long URL (yuck) or try the title in the search box at Amazon. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Author: Charles H Moore
> 
> > 
> 
> > Kindle Price: 	$1.99 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Publication Date: April 27, 2014
> 
> > 
> 
> > Print Length: 27 pages
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Jason
> 
> 
> 
> There are short links to both eBooks:
> 
> 
> 
> Early Years   	goo.gl/y2Zlud
> 
> 
> 
> Programming a Problem Oriented Language goo.gl/SVRdyF
> 
> 
> 
> The third one is a new project, this was just published, not Forth yet	
> 
> MyCo  Starting Programming for beginners - and ported to Forth soon
> 
> 	goo.gl/vnuivT
> 
> Just for fun, a "handheld" computer lowest end possible, no PC, no keyboard, no display, just 4 LEDs and 3 switches and you can program it, a veeeery small PLC.
> 
> Why did I add it in here? We will port it fronm C to Forth as exercise.
> 
> ... and YES, the C code and the Forth code will be free.

... and Jason, thank you very much for starting the thread. 
I just realized you must have known - it was my birthday. Thanks again.

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#31082

On Friday, May 30, 2014 12:35:25 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:

> ... and Jason, thank you very much for starting the thread. 
> I just realized you must have known - it was my birthday. Thanks again.

<smile>

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