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+DO and programming without stack manipulation words

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  +DO and programming without stack manipulation words anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-18 13:41 +0000
    Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-18 17:30 +0100
      Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-18 16:50 +0000
        Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-18 18:56 +0100
          Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-03-18 18:25 +0000
            Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-18 22:21 +0100
              Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-19 11:42 +0000
                Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-19 14:59 +0100
                  Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-03-20 02:13 -0500
                  Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-20 12:50 +0000
              Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-03-19 20:47 -0700
              Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-03-19 21:24 -0700
              Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-03-19 23:35 -0700
            Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-03-20 01:27 -0700
          Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-18 12:24 -0700
      Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-18 19:23 +0000
      Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-03-19 18:36 +0000
        Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Spam@ControlQ.com - 2014-03-19 17:32 -0400
          Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-19 23:48 +0100
        Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-19 23:17 +0100
          Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-03-20 01:47 +0000
            Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-20 23:00 +0100
        Re: +DO and programming without stack manipulation words albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-20 13:00 +0000

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#29089

On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 23:17:36 +0100, Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
wrote:

>
>Not even boot?  You've got it bricked?  Wow ;-).
>

Indeed!  A lovely little gift.  (Who cannot fail to value the lovely
gift of time wasted on a phone that doesn't work? ;)


>On any reasonable phone you won't even notice this time.  This "just be 
>patient" is for people who have /sdcard on a slow extern real SD-card.

Samsung Galaxy Ace GT-S5830i.  Not the worlds fastest phone for sure.

>
>It is totally harmless to exit the application while unpacking.  If it 
>hasn't completed, it will so next time.  If it has completed, it will know 
>that and not unpack next time (this is trivial to do: as last step, I write 
>a file containing a sha256-checksum of all the files - to verify that the 
>unpacking did work, I read that file in and check for the correct checksum).  
>This stuff is meant to be fool-proof.  
>
> Your story is the weirdest thing I've 
>heard.  No, you can't brick a phone by installing an app that writes a few 
>megabytes into /sdcard.  Ok, maybe if /sdcard is already almost full, and 
>the rest of the system needs some free space there.
>


!!  Aha!  That might have been what did it.  Last week there was a
notification of low memory space.  I uninstalled a few apps, cleared
the browser cache and then forgot about it...

It could well have been this unpacking...  I have read a few google
leads that point to interrupted installations due to insufficient
memory causing corruption to the /data partition.  And indeed the
systm is now unable to mount /dataRebooting.  So plausible.


>About displaying something: As I wrote, at that point in time I have 
>absolutely *nothing*.  Not even control over the screen, just a small 
>program that can unpack stuff.  So I can't display anything.  To gain 
>control, I must unpack all this stuff and then load it into the Forth 
>system.  You know, I need OpenGL, I need JNI, I need a Gforth image, all 
>that stuff has to be unpacked before it can be used.

For what it's worth --- the 2 intertwining GNUs image showed up.
Briefly.  Then black screen.   And nothing for a while.

>
>Did you manage it?  But you didn't find the root cause?  What I can imagine 
>is that your /sdcard was full, and the files couldn't be extracted correctly 
>- and then trying to run a corrupted Gforth image caused some harm.
>

Sadly, no.  It's boot-looping.  Wiped the cache.  No joy.  Then wiped
all user data (factory install).  No joy.  Accidentally got into
download mode once.  Which gave the idea to find something to flash it
with.  Once I got everything ready to do this (ODIN + Kieve files from
Samsung mobile) could not get it back into download mode!

I will have to leave it for an expert, perhaps a trip to the phone
shop... ;)

>I probably can fix that with the recent changes, since I've got rid of the 
>native activity and have my own activity.  This activity could display 
>something (a popup window showing a spinning wheel or so) while the 
>unpacking is going on, at least if it's taking more than 0.3s.  On my Galaxy 
>Note 2 I see no difference between the unpacking start and the non-unpacking 
>start; it's probably completely hidden in the animation (I can unpack during 
>animation, but I have to wait for the animation to finish to display 
>something).

Sadly, I'm not in a position to reproduce the error condition :)


But, yes -- a spinning wheel sounds like a good idea.


Cheers
- Assad

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#29102

Assad Ebrahim wrote:
> Sadly, no.  It's boot-looping.  Wiped the cache.  No joy.  Then wiped
> all user data (factory install).  No joy.  Accidentally got into
> download mode once.  Which gave the idea to find something to flash it
> with.  Once I got everything ready to do this (ODIN + Kieve files from
> Samsung mobile) could not get it back into download mode!

Can you take out the SD card?  I suppose this thing does use the SD card as 
/sdcard (it has very little internal memory), and the external SD card is 
*never* wiped when you do a factory reset.  Take it out, put it into a 
computer, and make space.

> I will have to leave it for an expert, perhaps a trip to the phone
> shop... ;)

Probably if you have troubles getting into download mode.

> But, yes -- a spinning wheel sounds like a good idea.

Yes, fortunately that's not too difficult.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#29097

In article <7moji9d3bc47f13iqiud50s16qunq45amb@4ax.com>,
Assad Ebrahim  <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 17:30:40 +0100, Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
>wrote:
>
>> can get Gforth from the Play Store.
>
>
>Bernd:
>
>I saw this and downloaded GForth for Android onto my Samsung phone.
>
>Well, after starting up nothing happened for a while, so I killed the
>program...  and appear to have crashed my phone -- as it it does not
>work or boot.

I install and run gforth on my Asus memopad just fine.
There is even another Forth in the android ap-store, (with
virtually no documentation), and Arie Kattenberg has started
working on ciforth for ARM (read android).

I have no idea what is going on when I click to install from the
ap-store but it works for me.
Takes less than 20 seconds. Downloading itself takes the most time.
>
>A little googling came up with the following:
>
>"Starting the app first time unpacks the Gforth sources to the SD
>card. That's a few megabytes, and therefore it takes its time.
>Gforth's loader can't display any status at this stage, and won't
>respond to inputs, so just be patient."
>(http://www.forth-ev.de/wiki/doku.php/en:projects:gforth-android:start)
>
>Ahhh...  now I am told ;)
>
>So, a suggestion: perhaps have the start screen show a small message
>like "Please Wait - this may take a few minutes the first time..."
>and an (!) warning icon, perhaps even -- while unpacking do NOT exit
>the application...
>
>That could potentially save a few less patient souls like myself
>several hours of having to figuring out now how to get my phone to
>turn on and restored to a working state  ;)
>
>
>
>(But I look forward to trying GForth for Android once that's done... )
>
>Cheers
>-
>Assad
>
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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