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suggestions for word names?

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  suggestions for word names? Marcos Cruz <null_email_so_use_my_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2014-02-14 20:15 +0000
    Re: suggestions for word names? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-02-14 10:30 -1000
      Re: suggestions for word names? Marcos Cruz <null_email_so_use_my_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2014-02-14 22:07 +0000
        Re: suggestions for word names? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2014-02-15 10:00 -0800
          Re: suggestions for word names? Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-02-18 05:04 -0800
            Re: suggestions for word names? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-02-18 05:45 -0800
            Re: suggestions for word names? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-02-18 18:17 -0500
              Re: suggestions for word names? Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-02-18 21:38 -0800
              Re: suggestions for word names? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-19 02:00 -0800
                Re: suggestions for word names? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-19 02:44 -0800
                Re: suggestions for word names? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-02-19 20:13 +0000
            Re: suggestions for word names? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-02-19 03:49 -0600
      Re: suggestions for word names? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-02-15 14:55 +0100
    Re: suggestions for word names? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-02-14 20:44 -0500
      Re: suggestions for word names? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-02-15 14:52 +0100
        Re: suggestions for word names? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-02-15 15:43 +0100
        Re: suggestions for word names? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-02-15 12:06 -0500
          Re: suggestions for word names? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-02-15 18:30 +0100
          Re: suggestions for word names? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 16:45 +0100
            Re: suggestions for word names? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-02-18 18:17 -0500
              Re: suggestions for word names? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-02-19 09:44 +0100
              Re: suggestions for word names? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-02-19 09:47 +0100
                Re: suggestions for word names? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-19 01:38 -0800
                  Re: suggestions for word names? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-02-19 16:59 +0100
              Re: suggestions for word names? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-02-19 10:11 +0100
                Re: suggestions for word names? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-02-19 05:39 -0500
                  Re: suggestions for word names? Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2014-02-19 03:31 -0800
      Re: suggestions for word names? Marcos Cruz <null_email_so_use_my_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2014-02-15 15:41 +0000

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#28559

Rod Pemberton wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:45:10 -0500, Hans Bezemer
> <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Pemberton wrote:
>> Are you aware that Chuck Moore, the very first Forther in
>> the world has repeatedly stated in public that he hates
>> words that don't mean anything?
>>
> 
> No.  He's not a talkative guy ...  So, did he actually say that?
Yes. And I think he's got a point. I don't think you should take it as far
as braindead COBOL, but it helps.

Hans Bezemer

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#28560

Rod Pemberton wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:45:10 -0500, Hans Bezemer
> <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Pemberton wrote:
 
> No.  He's not a talkative guy ...  So, did he actually say that?
Actually, AFAIK he didn't even like ROT, because ROT (contrary to SWAP and
DROP) is not a word. But I'm not as sure on this quote as I'm on I'M.

Hans Bezemer

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#28563

Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> writes:
> Actually, AFAIK he didn't even like ROT, because ROT (contrary to SWAP and
> DROP) is not a word.

Chuck never heard of bit rot?  ;-)

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#28582

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> writes:
>> Actually, AFAIK he didn't even like ROT, because ROT (contrary to SWAP
>> and DROP) is not a word.
> 
> Chuck never heard of bit rot?  ;-)
I think afterwards he would have liked to use it for a very slow DROP. ;-)

Hans Bezemer

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#28562

Rod Pemberton wrote:

> No.  He's not a talkative guy ...  So, did he actually say that?
For your reading pleasure I've pulled some actual Moore quotes on using
English words, including "I'M":

The choice of I’M is another invention of Moore, who says:
"I detest the word LOGON. There is no such word in English. I was looking
for word that said, “I’m . . . ” It was a natural. I just stumbled across
it. Even though it’s clumsy with that apostrophe, it has that sense of
rightness. All these little words are the nicest way of getting the “Aha!”
reaction. If you think of the right word, it is obviously the right word.
If you have a wide recall vocabulary, you’re in a better position to come up
with the right word.

I would distinguish between reading nicely in English and reading nicely. In
other languages such as Spanish, adjectives follow nouns. We should be inde-
pendent of details like which language we’re thinking in.
It depends on your intention: simplicity, or emulation of English. English
is not such a superb language that we should follow it slavishly."

ENDCASE

Hans Bezemer

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#28574

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 04:11:04 -0500, Hans Bezemer  
<the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Pemberton wrote:

>> No.  He's not a talkative guy ...  So, did he actually say that?
>
> For your reading pleasure I've pulled some actual Moore quotes on using
> English words, including "I'M":
>
> The choice of I’M is another invention of Moore, who says:
> "I detest the word LOGON. There is no such word in English. I was looking
> for word that said, “I’m . . . ” It was a natural. I just stumbled across
> it. Even though it’s clumsy with that apostrophe, it has that sense of
> rightness. All these little words are the nicest way of getting the
> “Aha!” reaction. If you think of the right word, it is obviously the  
> right
> word.  If you have a wide recall vocabulary, you’re in a better position  
> to
> come up with the right word.
>
> I would distinguish between reading nicely in English and reading  
> nicely. In
> other languages such as Spanish, adjectives follow nouns. We should be  
> inde-
> pendent of details like which language we’re thinking in. It depends on  
> your
> intention: simplicity, or emulation of English.  English is not such a  
> superb
> language that we should follow it slavishly."
>
> ENDCASE

A man who struggles with wording in a programming language that is word  
bound,
by choice not design, most assuredly would prefer symbols.  C is clearly  
far
richer in symbols than Forth.  I would dare to posit that he would love C.

Hatred or repulsion of COBOL or aversion to it is usually a key factor in
people preferring symbol rich languages.


Rod Pemberton

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#28576

I agree mostly with all of you.

Maybe a better approach would be to hide these fancy words inside an optimizing compiler that would translate e.g. "nip dup" into "dip", so the programmer doesn't have to learn words that are used rarely.

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#28452

En/Je/On 2014-02-15, Rod Pemberton escribió/skribis/wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 15:15:48 -0500, Marcos Cruz  wrote:
>>   2>r dup dup 2r>  ( x1 x2 x3 -- x1 x1 x1 x2 x3 )
>>   >r dup dup r>  ( x1 x2 -- x1 x1 x1 x2 )

> For the fist sequence "2>r dup dup 2r>",
> That sequence is also equivalent to this:
>    >r nup nup r>
> The second sequence ">r dup dup r>" is:
>    nup nup

>    nup ( x1 x2 -- x1 x1 x2 )

Thank you, Rod. I didn't know that word. I think it's what I need, a
common usage word that can make those repeated code pieces simpler or
easier to factor.

> This depends on how efficiently nup is implemented

Even if implemented in high level (I use Gforth and it doesn't include
it), 'nup' is worth in this case because the speed is not a problem.

Thank you.

-- 
Marcos Cruz
http://programandala.net

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