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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #27495 > unrolled thread

PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?

Started byPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
First post2013-12-28 23:39 -0800
Last post2014-01-03 14:52 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 330 — 25 participants

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Contents

  PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-28 23:39 -0800
    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-28 21:52 -1000
      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-12-29 11:28 +0100
        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-29 23:12 +1100
        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-29 07:45 -0600
          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-12-29 18:33 +0100
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-29 16:57 -0600
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-12-30 00:25 +0100
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-01 13:29 +1100
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-01 14:18 +0000
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-01-01 15:46 +0100
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-01-01 15:26 +0100
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-03 13:22 +1100
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-01-03 11:54 +0100
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-06 10:57 +1100
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-03 14:07 +0100
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-06 12:42 +1100
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 14:22 +0000
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-03 09:06 -0800
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 11:10 -0600
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-04 11:49 +0000
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-05 13:14 +1100
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-04 16:35 -1000
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-05 11:35 +0000
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-05 06:15 -0600
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-05 15:11 +0100
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-05 10:07 -0600
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-05 21:14 +0100
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-06 04:44 -0600
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-06 12:42 +1100
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-06 21:51 +0100
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-06 22:41 +0000
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-07 03:29 +0100
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2014-01-07 11:48 +0100
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-07 12:58 +0000
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-07 15:13 +0100
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-07 10:22 -0800
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-08 02:20 +1100
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-07 14:13 +0000
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-09 23:19 +1100
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-10 17:19 +0000
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-10 09:02 -1000
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-13 13:28 +1100
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-14 09:05 +0000
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? mhx@iae.nl - 2014-01-14 04:05 -0800
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-14 12:36 +0000
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-15 11:37 +1100
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-13 17:07 +0000
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-11 01:40 +0100
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-13 11:21 +1100
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-01-13 01:50 +0100
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-13 12:05 +1100
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-13 03:19 +0100
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-13 03:36 +0100
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-12 19:22 -0800
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-11 17:09 +1100
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-02 17:06 +0000
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-02 08:13 -1000
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-02 18:59 +0000
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 12:54 +0000
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 07:19 -0600
          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-12-29 22:32 -0500
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 16:46 +0000
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-12-30 18:37 -0500
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2013-12-31 11:53 +0100
          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:21 +0000
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 12:03 -0600
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 18:09 +0000
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 12:43 -0600
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-02 16:52 +0000
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-02 08:32 -1000
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-05 13:26 +1100
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-04 16:55 -1000
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-07 12:45 +1100
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-06 22:15 -1000
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-15 08:39 +1100
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-05 12:53 +0000
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-02 13:45 -0600
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-01-02 20:17 -0500
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 04:03 -0600
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 13:43 +0000
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 11:53 -0600
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-01 23:57 +0100
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-01 13:19 -1000
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-02 19:48 +0100
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-02 19:13 +0000
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-02 15:44 -0600
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-02 23:56 +0100
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-02 15:43 -0800
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-02 15:34 -1000
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 04:14 -0600
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-03 17:49 +0100
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 12:03 -0600
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-03 10:31 -0800
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-03 19:19 +0000
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-03 09:56 -1000
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-04 04:18 -0600
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-04 12:39 +0000
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-03 21:43 +0100
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-03 13:45 -0800
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-03 23:10 +0100
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-03 15:41 -0800
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-10 22:05 -0800
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-04 04:21 -0600
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2014-01-10 06:46 -0800
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-07 13:33 +0000
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-07 08:44 -0600
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-08 14:52 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-08 08:41 -1000
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-09 08:14 +0000
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-07 18:41 +0100
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-08 15:09 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-08 20:00 +0100
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-08 12:45 -1000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-09 00:16 +0100
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-10 22:34 -0800
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-10 22:41 -0800
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-10 23:12 -0800
                                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-10 23:04 -0800
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-10 22:08 -1000
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-09 02:16 +0000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 04:18 -0600
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-09 11:19 +0000
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 09:04 -0600
                                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-10 17:27 +0000
                                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-10 11:37 -0800
                                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2014-01-10 12:47 -0800
                                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-10 13:37 -0800
                                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2014-01-10 14:24 -0800
                                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-13 16:53 +0000
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-09 14:50 +0100
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 09:08 -0600
                                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-09 18:33 +0100
                                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 12:32 -0600
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-09 20:49 +0000
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-09 09:10 +0000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-09 14:37 +0100
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-07 08:48 -1000
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-08 15:24 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-08 08:50 -1000
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-09 08:28 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-08 16:21 -0600
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-09 09:39 +0000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 04:28 -0600
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-09 11:27 +0000
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-09 14:42 +0100
                                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 09:41 -0600
                                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-09 18:44 +0100
                                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 12:35 -0600
                                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-10 00:20 +0100
                                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-10 05:22 -0600
                                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-01-10 03:48 -0800
                                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-10 09:31 -0600
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-09 09:40 -0600
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-10 21:54 -0800
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-11 03:41 -0600
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-11 13:33 +0000
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-11 11:44 -0800
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-11 10:40 -1000
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-11 04:11 -0600
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-11 13:31 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-11 07:52 -0600
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-11 19:35 +0000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-12 02:57 -0600
                                          chipFORTH [Was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?] Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-12 03:12 -0600
                                            Re: chipFORTH Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-12 08:43 -0800
                                              Re: chipFORTH Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-12 10:40 -0600
                                                Re: chipFORTH albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-12 18:00 +0000
                                                Re: chipFORTH Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-01-12 11:18 -0800
                                                Re: chipFORTH anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-13 16:03 +0000
                                                  Re: chipFORTH "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-01-13 17:21 +0000
                                                Re: chipFORTH stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-13 19:10 +0000
                                            Re: chipFORTH [Was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?] "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-01-13 02:28 -0500
                                              Re: chipFORTH [Was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?] Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-12 21:39 -1000
                                              Re: chipFORTH [Was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?] Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-13 03:16 -0600
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-12 11:38 +0000
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-12 07:46 -0600
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-13 15:46 +0000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-13 10:45 -0600
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-13 19:05 +0000
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-13 20:53 +0100
                                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-14 03:41 -0600
                                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-14 13:07 +0000
                                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-14 17:53 +0100
                                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-14 17:35 +0000
                                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-14 08:23 -1000
                                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-14 13:19 -0600
                                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? oh2aun@gmail.com - 2014-01-14 12:31 -0800
                                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-14 21:37 +0100
                                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-14 16:12 -0600
                                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-14 12:18 -1000
                                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-15 04:19 +0100
                                                  DOES> and flash (was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-15 17:52 +0000
                                                    Re: DOES> and flash (was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-15 21:56 +0000
                                                      Re: DOES> and flash (was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-16 09:30 +0000
                                                        Re: DOES> and flash Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-01-17 12:44 +0100
                                                          Re: DOES> and flash oh2aun@gmail.com - 2014-01-17 08:05 -0800
                                                            Re: DOES> and flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-17 16:43 +0000
                                                              Re: DOES> and flash Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-17 20:37 +0100
                                                                Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-18 04:40 -0600
                                                                  Re: DOES> and flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-18 11:56 +0000
                                                                    Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-18 10:54 -0600
                                                                      Re: DOES> and flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-18 17:36 +0000
                                                                        Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-18 12:17 -0600
                                                                          Re: DOES> and flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-18 18:23 +0000
                                                                            Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-18 14:00 -0600
                                                                          Re: DOES> and flash Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-18 20:24 +0100
                                                                            Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-18 14:05 -0600
                                                                              Re: DOES> and flash Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-18 23:12 +0100
                                                                                Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-19 03:38 -0600
                                                                                  Re: DOES> and flash Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-19 14:03 +0100
                                                                                    Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-19 09:17 -0600
                                                                                      Re: DOES> and flash albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-19 15:31 +0000
                                                                                        Re: DOES> and flash Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-19 19:48 +0100
                                                                    Re: DOES> and flash Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-18 18:11 +0100
                                                                    Re: DOES> and flash Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-01-19 01:12 +0100
                                                                      Re: DOES> and flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-19 21:53 +0000
                                                                  Re: DOES> and flash Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2014-01-20 11:32 +0100
                                                    Re: DOES> and flash (was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-16 02:02 +0100
                                                      Re: DOES> and flash Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-01-16 07:19 +0100
                                                        Re: DOES> and flash Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-16 00:22 -0800
                                                          Re: DOES> and flash Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-16 15:38 +0100
                                                          Re: DOES> and flash Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-01-20 09:45 +0100
                                                      Re: DOES> and flash (was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-16 09:33 +0000
                                                        Re: DOES> and flash (was: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based?) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-16 16:09 +0100
                                                          Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-17 03:28 -0600
                                                            Re: DOES> and flash albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-17 11:39 +0000
                                                              Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-17 08:16 -0600
                                                                Re: DOES> and flash "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-01-17 16:06 +0000
                                                            Re: DOES> and flash anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-18 17:21 +0000
                                                            Re: DOES> and flash stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-19 12:32 +0000
                                                              Re: DOES> and flash Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-19 09:19 -0600
                                                                Re: DOES> and flash stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-19 18:20 +0000
                                                              Re: DOES> and flash Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-20 01:25 -0800
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-14 08:31 +0000
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-14 01:33 -0800
                                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-14 10:05 +0000
                                                CREATE...DOES> on program-in-flash systems anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-14 11:58 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-11 08:43 -1000
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-11 19:37 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-11 11:28 -0800
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-11 12:24 -0800
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-03 18:19 +0000
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-03 22:03 +0100
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 13:28 +0000
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-03 15:09 +0100
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-02 03:41 -0600
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-02 18:09 +0000
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 04:16 -0600
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-02 22:58 +0100
    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-12-29 22:34 -0500
      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-29 19:30 -1000
        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-12-29 22:49 -0800
          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-12-30 08:48 +0100
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 16:24 +0000
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 11:18 -0600
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:32 +0000
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 12:05 -0600
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-02 11:02 +0000
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-02 05:48 -0600
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 11:00 +0000
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-31 21:42 +1100
          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-12-30 09:14 +0100
          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 03:35 -0600
            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 16:06 +0000
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 10:41 -0600
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-12-30 17:50 +0000
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 12:21 -0600
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-02 11:21 +0000
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-02 07:08 -0600
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 11:13 +0000
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 07:36 -0600
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 15:23 +0000
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Tristan Plumb <firth@trstn.net> - 2014-01-03 16:02 +0000
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-03 08:54 -1000
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Tristan Plumb <firth@trstn.net> - 2014-01-03 19:59 +0000
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-03 10:12 -1000
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Tristan Plumb <st@trstn.net> - 2014-01-03 20:17 +0000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Tristan Plumb <firth@trstn.net> - 2014-01-03 20:29 +0000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-03 11:48 -1000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-04 12:00 +0000
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Tristan Plumb <firth@trstn.net> - 2014-01-04 13:12 +0000
                                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-04 08:22 -0600
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-01-10 21:37 -0800
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-02 16:58 +0100
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-02 16:41 +0000
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-01-02 16:54 +0000
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-02 23:22 +0100
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-02 23:20 +0100
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 11:56 +0000
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-30 08:14 -1000
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-30 12:54 -0600
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-12-31 23:15 +1100
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-31 07:05 -0600
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-31 09:26 -1000
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-01 13:27 +1100
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-31 18:21 -1000
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-01-01 12:12 +0000
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-03 15:59 +1100
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? mhx@iae.nl - 2014-01-03 00:19 -0800
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-05 13:25 +1100
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? mhx@iae.nl - 2014-01-04 19:03 -0800
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-06 14:08 +1100
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-01-06 01:47 -0800
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-07 12:43 +1100
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-08 13:29 +0000
                                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-01-08 16:30 +0100
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2014-01-11 23:12 +1100
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 14:30 +0000
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-01-04 13:57 -0800
                          Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-04 12:17 -1000
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-04 15:08 -0800
                              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-05 04:57 -0600
                                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-05 09:14 -0800
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-05 12:20 -0600
                                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-08 13:05 +0000
                                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-01-08 08:55 -1000
                                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-09 08:49 +0000
                                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-01-19 11:24 -0500
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-01-04 16:06 -0800
                            Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-07 13:47 +0000
              Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Tristan Plumb <firth@trstn.net> - 2013-12-30 18:29 +0000
                Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-02 09:34 +0000
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-01-02 20:06 -0500
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-01-03 11:34 +0100
                      Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2014-01-03 08:04 -0500
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-01-03 07:38 -0600
                        Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-01-03 15:57 +0100
                    Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-01-03 14:17 +0000
                  Re: PICK changed from 1-based to 0-based? Tristan Plumb <firth@trstn.net> - 2014-01-03 14:52 +0000

Page 6 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 4 5 [6] 7 8 … 17  Next page →


#27662

FromBernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Date2014-01-03 23:10 +0100
Message-ID<la7cg6$tov$1@online.de>
In reply to#27660
Paul Rubin wrote:

> Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>> We had Gerald programming our name tags with a MSP430, 8k flash, 512
>> bytes
>> RAM.  4k of the flash is for the Forth system (which is a typical
>> fig-Forth style system written in assembler), the other 4k are for the
>> program...
>> And of course you want to program it interactively, it is Forth!  It is
>> fun to program, and these 4k were sufficient to drive an LCD dot-matrix
>> screen,
> 
> Do you really want to write a 4k program interactively with no way to
> save or edit?  I thought interactivity was mostly for debugging.

Of course the editor is on the host.  Interactive programming is for trying 
things.  And Gerald usually wrote code into the terminal program and then 
cut&pasted it into the editor.

> Is your 4k MSP430 Forth released?  4e4th is around 8k, I think.

It's mecrisp from Matthias Koch, and released here:

http://mecrisp.sourceforge.net/

I haven't checked the size, Gerald said 4k, the download page speaks of 
9k...

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#27663

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-01-03 15:41 -0800
Message-ID<7xtxdkmy4o.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
In reply to#27662
Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>> Is your 4k MSP430 Forth released?  4e4th is around 8k, I think.
> It's mecrisp from Matthias Koch, and released here:
> http://mecrisp.sourceforge.net/
> I haven't checked the size, Gerald said 4k, the download page speaks
> of 9k...

Oh cool, I've looked at mecrisp and it's a very nice system, but I do
wonder about that 4k vs 9k discrepancy.  There are a bunch of minimal
ATTiny85 boards (8k flash, 512B eeprom, 512B ram) and it would be
amazing to have a resident Forth in something like this:

  http://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/

I suspect the AVR code density is worse than the MSP430's though.

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#27792

Fromvisualforth@rocketmail.com
Date2014-01-10 22:05 -0800
Message-ID<b486cb21-535d-4e2b-ab2b-44cedef47644@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#27660
On Friday, January 3, 2014 4:45:02 PM UTC-5, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Do you really want to write a 4k program interactively with no way to
> save or edit?  I thought interactivity was mostly for debugging.
> 
> Is your 4k MSP430 Forth released?  4e4th is around 8k, I think.

You are right, 4e4th has an 8k flash part for user programs, which is sufficient for educational purposes.

You can download 4e4th at http://www.4e4th.org/ and use the 4E4th-IDE which is specially designed for incremental programming: http://www.4e4th-IDE.org

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#27665

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2014-01-04 04:21 -0600
Message-ID<k8udnbPRVdITfVrPnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#27658
Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:
> Andrew Haley wrote:
> 
>> Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:
>>> The complaint about 64 bit systems for sure is that it is mostly
>>> inconvenient.  It wastes a bit cache space, but only a few percent.
>>> The complaint about embedded microcontrollers with flash is that you
>>> can't do it and have to go to <BUILDS.
>> 
>> No, only if you are doing something exceedingly odd: interactively
>> programming a system, with no cross compiler, with the dictionary in
>> flash.  Sure, you can do that, but I can't think of any reason that
>> anyone would do it.  I'm not saying that you're wrong to want to do
>> that, but I am saying that edge case is not worth standardizing
>> <BUILDS for.
> 
> This is not a corner case, this is the norm for programming small 
> controllers.  Their RAM is unconviniently small, but flash is dead cheap, 
> because one flash cell is 6f? (NOR flash), whereas one SRAM cell starts 
> somewhere around 36f? (compact ones).
> 
> We had Gerald programming our name tags with a MSP430, 8k flash, 512 bytes 
> RAM.  4k of the flash is for the Forth system (which is a typical fig-Forth 
> style system written in assembler), the other 4k are for the program, and 
> you can bulk-erase the entire user-written program quickly to start over 
> again if you need to.
> 
> And of course you want to program it interactively, it is Forth!

You are almost certainly communicating with the target via some sort
of host computer, so why not run an umbilical cross-compiler on it,
and not waste valuable space on the target with dictionary headers,
etc?

Andrew.

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#27778

Fromoh2aun@gmail.com
Date2014-01-10 06:46 -0800
Message-ID<d27647a2-b7ee-4928-81d5-85d9a48017a6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#27658
On Friday, January 3, 2014 10:43:28 PM UTC+2, Bernd Paysan wrote:
  There's not much 
> 
> to be done there, but there are AVR Forths out there which do emulate a 
> 
> unified memory space.  You can still use larger AVRs with 128k flash by 
> 
> having your data memory in the first 64k of the flash (minus the 16k RAM), 
> 
> and the code in the second 64k.  The cost of being standard is one compare 
> 
> and branch per @ and !, and it's really not worth to wrap the standard 
> 
> around this sort of weird architecture.
> 
I just need to add to the CREATE  DOES> and flash microcontroller discussion how happy I am with design decisions I have taken with FlashForth.

Writing to flash can be done in a random fashion, so that there is no problem implementing CREATE DOES> or even a peephole optimiser.

In FlashForth the address space is virtualized inside @ ! for Harvard Arctitectures.

When writing to flash the page is modified in a ram buffer which eventually is flushed to flash when the page is full and before ACCEPT in QUIT.

As an optimization the flush is only performed in interpretive state so that compilation of multiline words do not flush until the definition is complete.

@ will read the data from the buffer or from flash directly depending on the buffer status. 

This virtualization makes memory access slower but the overhead is quite small.
Just one compare before actually accessing ram.
Most of the CPU time is spent in the inner interpreter not inside @ or ! . And there is always the assembler.


-- Mike

http://flashforth.sourceforge.net (Atmega, PIC18-24-30-33)

> 
> -- 
> 
> Bernd Paysan
> 
> "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
> 
> http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#27715

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2014-01-07 13:33 +0000
Message-ID<2014Jan7.143346@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#27648
Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>No, only if you are doing something exceedingly odd: interactively
>programming a system, with no cross compiler,

Doing an ordinary Forth system is "exceedingly odd"?

> with the dictionary in
>flash.

Ok, that's a difference from the Forth system of the old days, but
"exceedingly odd"?

>Sure, you can do that, but I can't think of any reason that
>anyone would do it.

It's Forth!  It's a lot simpler than an umbilical/tethered
cross-development environment.  If your message is that people should
use a cross compiler instead of an ordinary Forth system, why should
they be using a Forth cross compiler instead of, say, a C cross
compiler (with some debugger for the interactivity)?

>I'm not saying that you're wrong to want to do
>that, but I am saying that edge case is not worth standardizing
><BUILDS for.

We standardized BUFFER: and N>R NR> for less.  The problem is not
standardizing <BUILDS, the problem would be in taking away the
guarantee that DOES> can be applied to CREATEd words.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#27718

FromAndrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date2014-01-07 08:44 -0600
Message-ID<AIidnT4AvoRAj1HPnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#27715
Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>No, only if you are doing something exceedingly odd: interactively
>>programming a system, with no cross compiler,
> 
> Doing an ordinary Forth system is "exceedingly odd"?

Don't be silly.

>>with the dictionary in flash.
> 
> Ok, that's a difference from the Forth system of the old days, but
> "exceedingly odd"?

I think so, yes.  Maybe there are many people doing it, but I doubt
that.

>>Sure, you can do that, but I can't think of any reason that
>>anyone would do it.
> 
> It's Forth!  It's a lot simpler than an umbilical/tethered
> cross-development environment.  If your message is that people
> should use a cross compiler instead of an ordinary Forth system, why
> should they be using a Forth cross compiler instead of, say, a C
> cross compiler (with some debugger for the interactivity)?

Because it's Forth, obviously.  It's not a debugger, it's an
interactive Forth system.  It doesn't look much different to the user
from a "normal" Forth.  The cross-compiling umbilical environment,
utilizing the (usually) much more powerful host, is so much better
than a traditional Forth environment on a small and slow target that I
can't think of any reason that anyone would do it any other way.  It's
faster, you don't need memory for headers, and there's almost nothing
loaded into the target that's not needed for the application.  What's
not to like, really?

>>I'm not saying that you're wrong to want to do that, but I am saying
>>that edge case is not worth standardizing <BUILDS for.
> 
> We standardized BUFFER: and N>R NR> for less.  The problem is not
> standardizing <BUILDS, the problem would be in taking away the
> guarantee that DOES> can be applied to CREATEd words.

Indeed.

Andrew.

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#27732

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2014-01-08 14:52 +0000
Message-ID<2014Jan8.155219@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#27718
Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
[ordinary Forth system with the dictionary in flash]
>I think so, yes.  Maybe there are many people doing it, but I doubt
>that.

Several systems have already been named.

>>>Sure, you can do that, but I can't think of any reason that
>>>anyone would do it.
>> 
>> It's Forth!  It's a lot simpler than an umbilical/tethered
>> cross-development environment.  If your message is that people
>> should use a cross compiler instead of an ordinary Forth system, why
>> should they be using a Forth cross compiler instead of, say, a C
>> cross compiler (with some debugger for the interactivity)?
>
>Because it's Forth, obviously.  It's not a debugger, it's an
>interactive Forth system.  It doesn't look much different to the user
>from a "normal" Forth.  The cross-compiling umbilical environment,
>utilizing the (usually) much more powerful host, is so much better
>than a traditional Forth environment on a small and slow target that I
>can't think of any reason that anyone would do it any other way.  It's
>faster, you don't need memory for headers, and there's almost nothing
>loaded into the target that's not needed for the application.  What's
>not to like, really?

1) The complexity.

2) The differences from an ordinary Forth system.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#27738

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2014-01-08 08:41 -1000
Message-ID<g9ednV6wGdlQBlDPnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#27732
On 1/8/14 4:52 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>> Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> [ordinary Forth system with the dictionary in flash]
>> I think so, yes.  Maybe there are many people doing it, but I doubt
>> that.
>
> Several systems have already been named.
>
>>>> Sure, you can do that, but I can't think of any reason that
>>>> anyone would do it.
>>>
>>> It's Forth!  It's a lot simpler than an umbilical/tethered
>>> cross-development environment.  If your message is that people
>>> should use a cross compiler instead of an ordinary Forth system, why
>>> should they be using a Forth cross compiler instead of, say, a C
>>> cross compiler (with some debugger for the interactivity)?
>>
>> Because it's Forth, obviously.  It's not a debugger, it's an
>> interactive Forth system.  It doesn't look much different to the user
>>from a "normal" Forth.  The cross-compiling umbilical environment,
>> utilizing the (usually) much more powerful host, is so much better
>> than a traditional Forth environment on a small and slow target that I
>> can't think of any reason that anyone would do it any other way.  It's
>> faster, you don't need memory for headers, and there's almost nothing
>> loaded into the target that's not needed for the application.  What's
>> not to like, really?
>
> 1) The complexity.
>
> 2) The differences from an ordinary Forth system.

The complexity isn't significantly greater than a regular Forth 
metacompiler. And, of course, it's only "complex" to the developer, not 
the user.

The differences from an "ordinary Forth system" are, from the POV of a 
user, very few, conceptually obvious, and operationally explained in 
just a few sentences. People who are using SwiftX for the first time 
pick it up very easily, in my experience.

Compared with the ongoing difficulty of working in an extremely 
resource-deprived environment, it's a piece of cake.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#27747

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2014-01-09 08:14 +0000
Message-ID<2014Jan9.091451@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#27738
"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>The complexity isn't significantly greater than a regular Forth 
>metacompiler.

But we are comparing with a resident system, not a metacompiler.

>And, of course, it's only "complex" to the developer, not 
>the user.

I assume you mean the Forth system developer and user, not the
application developer and user.  Anyway, one of the virtues of Forth
is that there need not be such a separation.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#27722

FromBernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Date2014-01-07 18:41 +0100
Message-ID<lahe7f$l55$1@online.de>
In reply to#27715
Anton Ertl wrote:
> We standardized BUFFER: and N>R NR> for less.  The problem is not
> standardizing <BUILDS, the problem would be in taking away the
> guarantee that DOES> can be applied to CREATEd words.

No, that would be an "environmental restriction".  This environmental 
restriction also comes with the restriction that you can use DOES> on 
<BUILDS only *once*.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#27734

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2014-01-08 15:09 +0000
Message-ID<2014Jan8.160903@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#27722
Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>Anton Ertl wrote:
>> We standardized BUFFER: and N>R NR> for less.  The problem is not
>> standardizing <BUILDS, the problem would be in taking away the
>> guarantee that DOES> can be applied to CREATEd words.
>
>No, that would be an "environmental restriction".  This environmental 
>restriction also comes with the restriction that you can use DOES> on 
><BUILDS only *once*.

Somehow standardizing a word (<BUILDS) that's intended to be used only
in the context of some environmental restrictions seems wrong.  

If a significant use case of <BUILDS is to only use DOES> on each
child once, then specify that in the specification.

Having two alternative ways to achieve the same thing in the standard,
with a number of systems not implementing one of the ways, and the
others preferring that way, does not look like a well-designed
standard either.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#27741

FromBernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Date2014-01-08 20:00 +0100
Message-ID<lak78m$5lc$1@online.de>
In reply to#27734
Anton Ertl wrote:

> Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>>Anton Ertl wrote:
>>> We standardized BUFFER: and N>R NR> for less.  The problem is not
>>> standardizing <BUILDS, the problem would be in taking away the
>>> guarantee that DOES> can be applied to CREATEd words.
>>
>>No, that would be an "environmental restriction".  This environmental
>>restriction also comes with the restriction that you can use DOES> on
>><BUILDS only *once*.
> 
> Somehow standardizing a word (<BUILDS) that's intended to be used only
> in the context of some environmental restrictions seems wrong.

IMHO the wrong thing to do was to standardize a word that can be implemented 
with clever tricks only; the tricks becoming more clever with the 
restriction of the enviroment.  Both Gforth EC R8C and noForth manage to use 
normal CREATE for DOES> in a flash-programmed system, by deploying two 
different, clever tricks.  This sort of trickery is counter the "keep it 
stupid simple" philosophy of Forth.  <BUILDS is easy to implement straight-
forward.  The whole CREATE DOES> stuff is already more demanding than the 
entire rest of Forth, so why artificially make it even more complicated?

> If a significant use case of <BUILDS is to only use DOES> on each
> child once, then specify that in the specification.
> 
> Having two alternative ways to achieve the same thing in the standard,
> with a number of systems not implementing one of the ways, and the
> others preferring that way, does not look like a well-designed
> standard either.

Of course.  But what would be the alternative?  Use <BUILDS exclusively for 
DOES>?  That would break existing code.

The question here is: Why are the small embedded system programmers only 
losely following the standard?  Even though Forth is most popular in that 
niche?  The reason is that it is too hard to implement it.  Too hard does 
not mean "impossible", but requiring that sort of guru code only a few 
people will be able to write.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#27743

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2014-01-08 12:45 -1000
Message-ID<0bqdnXAJauaXRVDPnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#27741
On 1/8/2014 9:00 AM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> The question here is: Why are the small embedded system programmers only
> losely following the standard?  Even though Forth is most popular in that
> niche?  The reason is that it is too hard to implement it.  Too hard does
> not mean "impossible", but requiring that sort of guru code only a few
> people will be able to write.

Not sure which programmers you're referring to, but that's why we were 
attempting to draft a cross-compiler standard based on the Forth 
standard. This project really needs to be revived!

Aloha,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

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#27744

FromBernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Date2014-01-09 00:16 +0100
Message-ID<lakm8f$u1h$1@online.de>
In reply to#27743
Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:

> On 1/8/2014 9:00 AM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
>> The question here is: Why are the small embedded system programmers only
>> losely following the standard?  Even though Forth is most popular in that
>> niche?  The reason is that it is too hard to implement it.  Too hard does
>> not mean "impossible", but requiring that sort of guru code only a few
>> people will be able to write.
> 
> Not sure which programmers you're referring to,

The people who implement Forth systems on small processors.  There are more 
of these small processors than gurus available, so you have to keep it 
simple.

> but that's why we were
> attempting to draft a cross-compiler standard based on the Forth
> standard. This project really needs to be revived!

Yes, but that's a different topic.

There are reasons why you want to have your Forth system in the target; if 
you use a umbilical system, you need to have the exact sources related to 
the device you are plugging into.  When it's just a normal Forth system, all 
you need is a terminal program.  Many Forth enthousiasts have worked that 
way for decades, and don't see a need to change.
 
-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#27794

Fromvisualforth@rocketmail.com
Date2014-01-10 22:34 -0800
Message-ID<d23e260d-370c-431e-bb4c-c77fdc0b7a77@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#27744
On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 6:16:30 PM UTC-5, Bernd Paysan wrote:

> There are reasons why you want to have your Forth system in the target; if 
> you use a umbilical system, you need to have the exact sources related to 
> the device you are plugging into.  When it's just a normal Forth system, all 
> you need is a terminal program.  Many Forth enthousiasts have worked that 
> way for decades, and don't see a need to change.

Thanks, Bernd!
As I already wrote, I am working with such Forth systems now for thirty years.

Having a target with Forth OS on board, it is very easy to build distributed multiprocessor systems as needed for an array of test stands for example:
Connecting all these test stands with RS485, each of them having it's own Forth micro, the communication with the PC control can be done in plain language. That's a huge plus for installation and maintenance. Works great.

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#27795

Fromvisualforth@rocketmail.com
Date2014-01-10 22:41 -0800
Message-ID<3e65e896-eeea-48ef-859f-b64fdcad9689@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#27744
On Wednesday, January 8, 2014 6:16:30 PM UTC-5, Bernd Paysan wrote:

> The people who implement Forth systems on small processors.  There are more 
> of these small processors than gurus available, so you have to keep it 
> simple.

How true!
The number of gurus won't change anyway.
I would like to have 4e4th on a bunch of microprocessors - the aforementioned OLIMEXINO-85S would be a candidate - but who would be able to do this?
For now we have enough work to do to improve 4e4th on the MSP430G2553 and to improve the 4E4th-IDE.

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#27796

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-01-10 23:12 -0800
Message-ID<7x7ga7q9fj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
In reply to#27795
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
> I would like to have 4e4th on a bunch of microprocessors - the
> aforementioned OLIMEXINO-85S would be a candidate

I defer to your superior knowledge of 4e4th but my first reaction is
that running it on the OLIMEXINO-85S is probably not feasible even if
you rewrite all the MSP430 assembly code.  The ATTiny85 has just 8k of
code space, and its AVR8 processor almost certainly has worse code
density than the MSP430.  When I mentioned the ATTiny85 earlier, I was
thinking in terms of a tethered Forth for it.  If you want a resident
Forth in it, a minimalistic token threaded implementation may allow the
most stuff.  You might also look at the Femtoduino (www.femtoduino.com)
which is almost as small and has much more capacity.

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#27797

Fromvisualforth@rocketmail.com
Date2014-01-10 23:04 -0800
Message-ID<2b48b1b2-6e55-4c28-9530-c565fd9d5556@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#27796
On Saturday, January 11, 2014 2:12:00 AM UTC-5, Paul Rubin wrote:
> visualforth.com writes:
> 
> > I would like to have 4e4th on a bunch of microprocessors - the
> > aforementioned OLIMEXINO-85S would be a candidate
>
> I defer to your superior knowledge of 4e4th but my first reaction is
> that running it on the OLIMEXINO-85S is probably not feasible even if
> you rewrite all the MSP430 assembly code.  The ATTiny85 has just 8k of
> code space, and its AVR8 processor almost certainly has worse code
> density than the MSP430.  When I mentioned the ATTiny85 earlier, I was
> thinking in terms of a tethered Forth for it.  If you want a resident
> Forth in it, a minimalistic token threaded implementation may allow the
> most stuff.  You might also look at the Femtoduino (www.femtoduino.com)
> which is almost as small and has much more capacity.

Paul,
Thanks for reminding me. My idea was that this is a pretty neat micro, but I was wondering, because these little micros normally only have little memory. It's a real pity, because these tiny little micros could be used for a lot of interesting stuff if they would have more memory. The Femtoduino seems to do it, with more pins as SMD.
Thanks again!

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#27798

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2014-01-10 22:08 -1000
Message-ID<n-udnQ-hpceKYU3PnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#27744
On 1/8/14 1:16 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>
>> On 1/8/2014 9:00 AM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
>>> The question here is: Why are the small embedded system programmers only
>>> losely following the standard?  Even though Forth is most popular in that
>>> niche?  The reason is that it is too hard to implement it.  Too hard does
>>> not mean "impossible", but requiring that sort of guru code only a few
>>> people will be able to write.
>>
>> Not sure which programmers you're referring to,
>
> The people who implement Forth systems on small processors.  There are more
> of these small processors than gurus available, so you have to keep it
> simple.

It takes an experienced Forther to implement a system or cross-compiler 
on a processor for the first time. Thereafter, changing boards is a 
piece of cake (matter of a few hours at most).

>> but that's why we were
>> attempting to draft a cross-compiler standard based on the Forth
>> standard. This project really needs to be revived!
>
> Yes, but that's a different topic.
>
> There are reasons why you want to have your Forth system in the target; if
> you use a umbilical system, you need to have the exact sources related to
> the device you are plugging into.  When it's just a normal Forth system, all
> you need is a terminal program.  Many Forth enthousiasts have worked that
> way for decades, and don't see a need to change.

As I said above, changing a basic cross-compiler for a particular MCU is 
usually quite simple. We have had quite a few customers modify SwiftX 
for the board of their choice without help. The "exact sources" are on 
your PC, and easily modified for each board variant of the CPU family.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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