Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #27008 > unrolled thread

Upcoming beta release of "8th"

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth

Contents

  Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-11-27 21:12 +0200
    Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Spam@ControlQ.com - 2013-11-27 15:05 -0500
      Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-11-27 22:20 +0200
        Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-28 02:10 -0800
          Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 12:46 +0200
        Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-12-02 00:17 -0800
          Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-02 01:01 -0800
            Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 17:17 +0200
          Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 17:15 +0200
    Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 04:26 -0800
      Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 16:16 +0200
        Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 13:23 -0800
          Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-11-28 11:32 -1000
          Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 09:50 +0200
    Re: Upcoming beta release of "8th" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 19:40 +0200

#27008 — Upcoming beta release of "8th"

Hello all:

The first beta of the CLI version of "8th" is due out in two weeks,
barring unforeseen issues.  8th is a Forth-ish language intended for
cross-platform development.  If you are interested in learning more
about it, please look at the website: http://aaron-tech.com/8th.html

This first beta will have versions for 32 and 64 bit Windows, OS/X and
Linux.


Some of its current features:

    object-orientation.

    "safe" data access

    "FFI" with type-information and translation

    JSON as a data description language

    containers: "object" and "array", which may contain any other data type

    the ability to determine size of object-pools (for each object
type), so memory usage can be adjusted (per run, not at run-time)

    SQLite integration


Limitations of the beta:

    No "turnkey" ability

    limited vocabularies/libraries


Documentation will be in HTML format.



Anti-features:

    not ANS-Forth compatible, nor even Reva Forth compatible

    not as fast as Reva; hopefully it will be faster than 'node.js' when
I'm done


Features to come (after/during the 1st beta):

    cross-platform GUI (webkit based)

    Android and iOS support

    "turnkey" ability (encrypted/compressed image)

    wide variety of usable libraries


Again, if you're interested please go to the website and request to join
the beta program.

Thank you, and
Best regards

Ron Aaron


-- 

Aaron High-Tech, Ltd.   http://aaron-tech.com/
  ...software and services, superior by design
Please encrypt using GnuPG for confidentiality
https://aaron-tech.com/gpg_key.html

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#27009

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013, Ron Aaron wrote:

> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 21:12:39 +0200
> From: Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
> Subject: Upcoming beta release of "8th"
> 
> Hello all:
>
> The first beta of the CLI version of "8th" is due out in two weeks,
> barring unforeseen issues.  8th is a Forth-ish language intended for
> cross-platform development.  If you are interested in learning more
> about it, please look at the website: http://aaron-tech.com/8th.html


How Forth-like is it?  The web site shows little in the way of syntax, 
etc (thus I did not sign up for a beta).  Perhaps a little sample code?

Cheers,
Rob.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27010

On 11/27/2013 10:05 PM, Spam@ControlQ.com wrote:

> 
> How Forth-like is it?  The web site shows little in the way of syntax,
> etc (thus I did not sign up for a beta).  Perhaps a little sample code?

Right; I haven't updated the web page to reflect the state of
development, since that's a fast moving target.

In any event, it should look mostly familiar.  It uses the usual
colon-semicolon to define words, has if..else..then and repeat..while
(and some other flow-control).

It has the "create ... does>" which is useful to have.

One difference is that strings for example, look like strings in "C" (or
most other languages).  So instead of:

  " string"

you would say

  "string"

Further, some words like "." just "do the right thing".  So dotting a
number prints the number, dotting a string prints the string, dotting an
array or object prints them.

The "@" and "!" words are there, but you don't get free access to
arbitrary memory addresses.  Rather, you might do:

  var obj
  {"key" : "value"} obj !
  ...
  "key" obj @ @ .

(prints "value" -- without quotes)

In this case, the first "@" accesses the variable 'obj' and pulls out
the object tucked inside it.  The second "@" acts on the object, and
references the "key" to end up with "value", which the dot then prints.

I would say it should be quite familiar to a Forther, but YMMV.

Best regards,
Ron

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27029

That actually sounds very nice indeed. I can see that would be great for desktop systems (which it appears to be aimed at) - it fills in a lot of the stuff that is missing in standard Forth. It might be a bit OTT for constrained embedded, but you don't appear to be aiming at that, so fair enough.

It feels like a "modern" Forth.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27030

Thanks.

Yes, it's target is modern desktop OSes as well as Android and iOS
devices, but not constrained embedded systems.

On 11/28/2013 12:10 PM, Mark Wills wrote:
> That actually sounds very nice indeed. I can see that would be great for desktop systems (which it appears to be aimed at) - it fills in a lot of the stuff that is missing in standard Forth. It might be a bit OTT for constrained embedded, but you don't appear to be aiming at that, so fair enough.
> 
> It feels like a "modern" Forth.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27090

On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 3:20:19 PM UTC-5, Ron Aaron wrote:
> On 11/27/2013 10:05 PM, wrote:
> 
> > How Forth-like is it?  The web site shows little in the way of syntax,
> > etc (thus I did not sign up for a beta).  Perhaps a little sample code?
> 
> One difference is that strings for example, look like strings in "C" (or
> most other languages).  So instead of:
>   " string"
> you would say
>   "string"
> 
> Further, some words like "." just "do the right thing".  So dotting a
> number prints the number, dotting a string prints the string, dotting an
> array or object prints them.
> 
> The "@" and "!" words are there, but you don't get free access to
> arbitrary memory addresses. 

Seems to be there are some interesting innovations.

Would it be possible to add these innovations to standard Forth versions using a special vocabulary with these innovations for switching between standard Forth and 8th Forth?

On the other hand it would be possible to enhance the interpreter, and both, standard Forth and 8th features would be able to be intermixed, you could use ." Test" and ."Test"

Question: how does this work with the dotted number? A dotted number normally is a double precision number. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27092

I'm guessing that his stack is a stack of pointers to "things" (simple objects?) rather than actually holding data directly. That will account for some of the performance hit, which is unavoidable; it's a more complex system. So in the case of things like . it (dot) will look at the objects type before deciding what to do. I guess operators such as + could be used to concatenate strings etc - it would work the same as . and @ - it just looks at the type and does the right thing.


Neat.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27102

On 12/02/2013 11:01 AM, Mark Wills wrote:

> I'm guessing that his stack is a stack of pointers to "things" (simple
> objects?) rather than actually holding data directly.

Yep. Pointers to reference-counted "things", actually, allocated from
"pools of things".

> Neat.

I like to think so :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27101

On 12/02/2013 10:17 AM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:>

> Would it be possible to add these innovations to standard Forth
versions using a special vocabulary with these innovations for switching
between standard Forth and 8th Forth?

Probably, if one wanted to invest the time to do that.

> Question: how does this work with the dotted number? A dotted number
normally
> is a double precision number.

In 8th a number is a number.  There is no distinction between "integers"
and "floats", it handles them both using the smallest size it can.  Not
implemented yet, but it is planned to expand to "big integers" if necessary.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27033

good for you Ron

I don't like OOP in forth but sure I like to try you system !!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27039

Thanks; just sign up on the site so I can keep track.

Best regards,
Ron

On 11/28/2013 02:26 PM, Pablo Hugo Reda wrote:
> good for you Ron
> 
> I don't like OOP in forth but sure I like to try you system !!
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27052

El jueves, 28 de noviembre de 2013 11:16:25 UTC-3, Ron Aaron  escribió:
> Thanks; just sign up on the site so I can keep track.


I can not register!!
the form not work.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/28/2013 02:26 PM, Pablo Hugo Reda wrote:
> 
> > good for you Ron
> 
> > 
> 
> > I don't like OOP in forth but sure I like to try you system !!
> 
> >

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27053

On 11/28/13 11:23 AM, Pablo Hugo Reda wrote:
> El jueves, 28 de noviembre de 2013 11:16:25 UTC-3, Ron Aaron  escribió:
>> Thanks; just sign up on the site so I can keep track.
>
>
> I can not register!!
> the form not work.

So much for all of you sneering at Obamacare's web site!

Cheers,
Elizabeth


-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27061

First of all, muchisimas gracias, Pablo --

A cautionary tale:

First, JavaScript doesn't do what I thought it did in a particular
situation.  This is both an indictment of JS for poor design, as well as
of my own misunderstanding of how it works.

Second, and more important: the English form worked fine, and since the
Spanish and Hebrew versions *use the same code*, I *assumed* they worked
as well.  Had I tested one of them, I would have seen Pablo's problem.
My (big, bad) problem.  After nearly thirty years of programming, I was
caught by a rookie mistake.

Anyway, the forms work fine now in all three languages (and any future
ones I may add).

On 11/28/2013 11:23 PM, Pablo Hugo Reda wrote:
> El jueves, 28 de noviembre de 2013 11:16:25 UTC-3, Ron Aaron  escribió:
>> Thanks; just sign up on the site so I can keep track.
> 
> 
> I can not register!!
> the form not work.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/28/2013 02:26 PM, Pablo Hugo Reda wrote:
>>
>>> good for you Ron
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I don't like OOP in forth but sure I like to try you system !!
>>
>>>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#27690

Just got beta 2 out the door...

On 11/27/2013 09:12 PM, Ron Aaron wrote:
> Hello all:
> 
> The first beta of the CLI version of "8th" is due out in two weeks,
> barring unforeseen issues.  8th is a Forth-ish language intended for
> cross-platform development.  If you are interested in learning more
> about it, please look at the website: http://aaron-tech.com/8th.html

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth

csiph-web