Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.forth > #26717 > unrolled thread

Collector's item or useful textbook?

Started byBill Richards <billrich@gmx.com>
First post2013-10-28 09:42 +0000
Last post2013-10-30 05:18 -0700
Articles 8 — 5 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth


Contents

  Collector's item or useful textbook? Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-10-28 09:42 +0000
    Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-10-28 02:47 -0700
    Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-28 04:26 -0700
      Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-10-28 15:43 +0000
    Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-10-29 13:44 +0000
      Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-29 08:20 -1000
        Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-10-29 18:41 +0000
        Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-30 05:18 -0700

#26717 — Collector's item or useful textbook?

FromBill Richards <billrich@gmx.com>
Date2013-10-28 09:42 +0000
SubjectCollector's item or useful textbook?
Message-ID<l4lbhd$cq2$1@speranza.aioe.org>
I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly
perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn
Forth from it?

Bill

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#26718

Fromm.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl
Date2013-10-28 02:47 -0700
Message-ID<0c46a21d-f897-4420-b43e-ae6219f6f341@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#26717
On Monday, October 28, 2013 10:42:05 AM UTC+1, Bill Richards wrote:
> I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. 
> It's the 1981 version in nearly perfect condition. 
> Is this merely a collector's item or can you still 
> learn Forth from it? 

It is better to use the on-line SF/TF versions for learning 
(they are better aligned with current ANS Forth). Go 
back to the original when you are somewhat more 
experienced -- the 1981 version has some remarkable code 
you can learn from.

-marcel

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#26719

FromMark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2013-10-28 04:26 -0700
Message-ID<c041a66e-55bc-4616-93d8-17c5a911c91f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#26717
On Monday, October 28, 2013 9:42:05 AM UTC, Bill Richards wrote:
> I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly
> 
> perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn
> 
> Forth from it?
> 
> 
> 
> Bill

If you're using an older (say 16-bit) Forth, then yes, I'd say it's still useful. If you're using a modern, ANS Forth, then no, other than the most basic concepts, which obviously still apply.

I have a 16-bit Forth which can run on a PC via an emulator.

Check out http://turboforth.net.

There are also Forths for MSDOS etc which are still available.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#26721

FromBill Richards <billrich@gmx.com>
Date2013-10-28 15:43 +0000
Message-ID<l4m0nk$72j$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#26719
Thanks Marcel and Mark for the info. I don't have any hardware to run DOS so
for now the book will just make its shelf a little nicer than before. What a
lovely blue cover. I haven't seen anything like that before and still shiny
more than 30 years later!

Bill

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#26739

FromMarc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid>
Date2013-10-29 13:44 +0000
Message-ID<l4oe40$aq7$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#26717
Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> wrote:
> I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly
> perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn
> Forth from it?

You can certainly learn something from it. But note that the first
edition was alread followed in 1987 by a second edition (and of course
thers is now a web-edition). So you would probably need to watch out
for outdated items in your copy and perhaps supplement it with present
material.

-- 
Marc

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#26747

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2013-10-29 08:20 -1000
Message-ID<jPOdna3vp7_JYfLPnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#26739
On 10/29/13 3:44 AM, Marc Olschok wrote:
> Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> wrote:
>> I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly
>> perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn
>> Forth from it?
>
> You can certainly learn something from it. But note that the first
> edition was alread followed in 1987 by a second edition (and of course
> thers is now a web-edition). So you would probably need to watch out
> for outdated items in your copy and perhaps supplement it with present
> material.
>

The web edition is a modified version of the First Ed., so is in some 
ways more current and in other ways less.

The biggest structural difficulty with SF is that it assumes an 
implementation strategy that many modern systems don't use, including 
the use of blocks or screens for storage of source. They also ignore 
many aspects of modern usage, such as floating point, text files, host 
OS compatibility, etc.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#26748

FromBill Richards <billrich@gmx.com>
Date2013-10-29 18:41 +0000
Message-ID<l4ovgs$jtp$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#26747
On 2013-10-29, Elizabeth D. Rather <erather@forth.com> wrote:
> On 10/29/13 3:44 AM, Marc Olschok wrote:
>> Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> wrote:
>>> I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly
>>> perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn
>>> Forth from it?
>>
>> You can certainly learn something from it. But note that the first
>> edition was alread followed in 1987 by a second edition (and of course
>> thers is now a web-edition). So you would probably need to watch out
>> for outdated items in your copy and perhaps supplement it with present
>> material.

I'm glad I found this copy anyway. It's in great shape and was very
cheap. Maybe I'll win the lottery and find the 2nd edition as well.
Thanks for the info.

>>
>
> The web edition is a modified version of the First Ed., so is in some 
> ways more current and in other ways less.

Oh, I did not realize that.

>
> The biggest structural difficulty with SF is that it assumes an 
> implementation strategy that many modern systems don't use, including 
> the use of blocks or screens for storage of source. They also ignore 
> many aspects of modern usage, such as floating point, text files, host 
> OS compatibility, etc.

Thanks. That's helpful to know.

Bill

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#26759

FromMark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2013-10-30 05:18 -0700
Message-ID<46bfa5ab-98d3-4222-bceb-df6972b6d003@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#26747
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:20:04 PM UTC, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> 
> The biggest structural difficulty with SF is that it assumes an 
> implementation strategy that many modern systems don't use, including 
> the use of blocks or screens for storage of source. They also ignore 
> many aspects of modern usage, such as floating point, text files, host 
> OS compatibility, etc.

Very true. Though it fits in pretty much prefectly with my "new" Retro hobby Forth system ;-)

Some of us are just stuck in the 80's!

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]


Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth


csiph-web