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| Started by | Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-10-28 09:42 +0000 |
| Last post | 2013-10-30 05:18 -0700 |
| Articles | 8 — 5 participants |
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Collector's item or useful textbook? Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-10-28 09:42 +0000
Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-10-28 02:47 -0700
Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-28 04:26 -0700
Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-10-28 15:43 +0000
Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2013-10-29 13:44 +0000
Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-10-29 08:20 -1000
Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-10-29 18:41 +0000
Re: Collector's item or useful textbook? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-30 05:18 -0700
| From | Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-28 09:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Collector's item or useful textbook? |
| Message-ID | <l4lbhd$cq2$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn Forth from it? Bill
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| From | m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-28 02:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0c46a21d-f897-4420-b43e-ae6219f6f341@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #26717 |
On Monday, October 28, 2013 10:42:05 AM UTC+1, Bill Richards wrote: > I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. > It's the 1981 version in nearly perfect condition. > Is this merely a collector's item or can you still > learn Forth from it? It is better to use the on-line SF/TF versions for learning (they are better aligned with current ANS Forth). Go back to the original when you are somewhat more experienced -- the 1981 version has some remarkable code you can learn from. -marcel
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| From | Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-28 04:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c041a66e-55bc-4616-93d8-17c5a911c91f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #26717 |
On Monday, October 28, 2013 9:42:05 AM UTC, Bill Richards wrote: > I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly > > perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn > > Forth from it? > > > > Bill If you're using an older (say 16-bit) Forth, then yes, I'd say it's still useful. If you're using a modern, ANS Forth, then no, other than the most basic concepts, which obviously still apply. I have a 16-bit Forth which can run on a PC via an emulator. Check out http://turboforth.net. There are also Forths for MSDOS etc which are still available.
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| From | Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-28 15:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l4m0nk$72j$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #26719 |
Thanks Marcel and Mark for the info. I don't have any hardware to run DOS so for now the book will just make its shelf a little nicer than before. What a lovely blue cover. I haven't seen anything like that before and still shiny more than 30 years later! Bill
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| From | Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-29 13:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l4oe40$aq7$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #26717 |
Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> wrote: > I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly > perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn > Forth from it? You can certainly learn something from it. But note that the first edition was alread followed in 1987 by a second edition (and of course thers is now a web-edition). So you would probably need to watch out for outdated items in your copy and perhaps supplement it with present material. -- Marc
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-29 08:20 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <jPOdna3vp7_JYfLPnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #26739 |
On 10/29/13 3:44 AM, Marc Olschok wrote: > Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> wrote: >> I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly >> perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn >> Forth from it? > > You can certainly learn something from it. But note that the first > edition was alread followed in 1987 by a second edition (and of course > thers is now a web-edition). So you would probably need to watch out > for outdated items in your copy and perhaps supplement it with present > material. > The web edition is a modified version of the First Ed., so is in some ways more current and in other ways less. The biggest structural difficulty with SF is that it assumes an implementation strategy that many modern systems don't use, including the use of blocks or screens for storage of source. They also ignore many aspects of modern usage, such as floating point, text files, host OS compatibility, etc. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-29 18:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <l4ovgs$jtp$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #26747 |
On 2013-10-29, Elizabeth D. Rather <erather@forth.com> wrote: > On 10/29/13 3:44 AM, Marc Olschok wrote: >> Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> wrote: >>> I just purchased a copy of Starting Forth. It's the 1981 version in nearly >>> perfect condition. Is this merely a collector's item or can you still learn >>> Forth from it? >> >> You can certainly learn something from it. But note that the first >> edition was alread followed in 1987 by a second edition (and of course >> thers is now a web-edition). So you would probably need to watch out >> for outdated items in your copy and perhaps supplement it with present >> material. I'm glad I found this copy anyway. It's in great shape and was very cheap. Maybe I'll win the lottery and find the 2nd edition as well. Thanks for the info. >> > > The web edition is a modified version of the First Ed., so is in some > ways more current and in other ways less. Oh, I did not realize that. > > The biggest structural difficulty with SF is that it assumes an > implementation strategy that many modern systems don't use, including > the use of blocks or screens for storage of source. They also ignore > many aspects of modern usage, such as floating point, text files, host > OS compatibility, etc. Thanks. That's helpful to know. Bill
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| From | Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-10-30 05:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <46bfa5ab-98d3-4222-bceb-df6972b6d003@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #26747 |
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:20:04 PM UTC, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > > The biggest structural difficulty with SF is that it assumes an > implementation strategy that many modern systems don't use, including > the use of blocks or screens for storage of source. They also ignore > many aspects of modern usage, such as floating point, text files, host > OS compatibility, etc. Very true. Though it fits in pretty much prefectly with my "new" Retro hobby Forth system ;-) Some of us are just stuck in the 80's!
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