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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #37787 > unrolled thread
| Started by | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-03-31 15:13 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-06-15 23:35 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 325 — 39 participants |
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bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-31 15:13 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-03-31 20:55 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-01 11:26 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-01 08:39 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-01 17:35 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-12 15:18 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-02 10:35 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-02 10:08 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-01 12:33 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-01 22:16 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-01 13:40 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-02 17:07 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-02 19:18 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-03 06:43 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-03 10:49 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work beeflo <beeflobill@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 11:17 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 14:35 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-03 19:42 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work jkn_gg@nicorp.f9.co.uk - 2015-04-03 14:34 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 20:52 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work jkn_gg@nicorp.f9.co.uk - 2015-04-04 03:47 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-04 14:07 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 00:11 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work jkn_gg@nicorp.f9.co.uk - 2015-04-05 08:11 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-03 23:50 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-04 05:44 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-03 21:32 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-04 17:03 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-04 21:56 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-05 18:11 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-05 10:13 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-06 14:03 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-06 14:44 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-07 11:02 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-07 17:21 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-07 16:02 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-07 11:06 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-03 18:52 -1000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-05 03:54 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-04-05 18:21 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-05 21:47 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-12 14:41 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-12 23:20 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-12 18:40 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-13 04:36 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-13 23:12 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-14 09:53 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-14 18:38 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-15 21:03 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-15 19:38 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 22:54 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-16 10:01 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-16 18:25 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-17 10:11 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 22:49 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-15 21:56 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 00:11 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-16 07:21 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-16 19:45 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-17 10:34 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 08:49 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work mhx@iae.nl - 2015-06-17 13:50 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-17 18:36 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 23:44 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-17 21:14 -1000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 00:15 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-18 09:27 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 02:04 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 03:32 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 04:19 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-18 12:31 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 05:57 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-18 12:21 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-18 08:01 -1000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-18 12:11 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-06-18 17:25 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-18 22:56 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work coos <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-06-18 18:54 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-18 10:53 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-18 21:31 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 23:58 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-19 08:23 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 01:01 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Thomas Östreicher <thomas.oestreicher@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 01:07 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-19 09:38 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 02:51 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-20 16:35 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 21:28 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-20 21:33 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 21:49 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-21 14:01 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-21 14:19 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 13:16 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-22 16:53 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-23 15:39 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-23 18:11 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-20 16:26 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-20 21:55 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-21 14:26 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-22 00:29 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-22 03:24 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 07:49 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-21 21:16 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 02:09 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-22 05:57 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-21 14:27 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 11:58 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 01:04 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-20 16:17 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 00:55 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 02:42 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 03:56 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 02:47 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-19 11:37 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-19 19:56 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-21 21:23 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 08:39 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-22 11:27 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-22 16:07 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-21 14:56 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 00:40 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 10:55 +0300
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-21 14:43 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 02:05 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 16:41 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-19 12:55 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-18 10:00 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-18 20:56 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 03:13 +0300
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-19 08:37 +0100
WAS: bug in VFX... IS: More rants from Rantman of Rantland rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 16:33 -0400
Re: WAS: bug in VFX... IS: More rants from Rantman of Rantland "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-19 05:19 -0400
Re: WAS: bug in VFX... IS: More rants from Rantman of Rantland Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-06-19 13:38 +0100
Re: WAS: bug in VFX... IS: More rants from Rantman of Rantland rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 12:29 -0400
Re: WAS: bug in VFX... IS: More rants from Rantman of Rantland "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-19 17:53 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-19 12:07 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-19 12:55 +0000
The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-20 15:36 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-06-20 14:01 -0400
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-20 08:33 -1000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-20 21:18 -0700
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-21 13:09 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-21 14:50 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-21 23:58 +0200
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-22 10:54 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 15:52 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-22 17:08 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-23 16:43 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-22 20:19 +0200
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 08:47 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-22 13:58 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-22 15:37 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-22 17:02 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-23 16:29 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-23 18:18 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 (was: bug in VFX --- IF does't work) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 00:42 -0700
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-22 21:47 -1000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 02:42 -0700
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 03:38 -0700
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-23 12:55 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 06:55 -0700
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2015-06-23 08:29 -0700
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-23 16:47 +0000
Re: The meaning of xt in Forth-94 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-23 10:30 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-19 15:07 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-20 16:09 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-22 16:24 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-15 17:41 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-15 16:54 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 22:57 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-13 10:51 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-13 12:57 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-13 21:53 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-13 22:41 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-14 11:42 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 09:26 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-14 23:15 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 16:39 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 15:21 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-06-14 23:20 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 16:48 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 17:52 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2015-06-14 21:13 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-06-14 20:09 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-03 10:25 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-03 14:43 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-03 20:14 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work jfong@ms4.hinet.net - 2015-04-03 23:16 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-03 20:02 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-03 20:46 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-04 06:43 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-04 17:31 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2015-04-04 15:54 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-04 21:01 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-06 04:48 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-04 13:57 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-05 00:16 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-05 10:11 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-05 14:37 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-06 04:52 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-05 21:58 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-06 13:56 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-06 22:22 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-06 18:09 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-07 14:30 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-07 15:43 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-10 19:55 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-11 15:51 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-11 16:25 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-12 10:22 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-12 10:48 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-12 10:53 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-04-12 14:18 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-04-12 14:35 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-13 12:36 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 06:00 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-04-13 21:02 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 13:32 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-12 09:40 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-12 13:38 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-12 18:55 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-13 00:07 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-13 08:07 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-12 23:09 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-12 20:35 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-13 10:10 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-13 15:58 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-13 13:13 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-14 11:40 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-14 18:48 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-12 21:51 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-13 00:13 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-12 20:43 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-13 09:53 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-14 09:46 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-14 10:01 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-14 18:24 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-14 17:17 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 18:08 +0300
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-06 22:07 -0400
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-06 16:44 -1000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-07 11:09 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-07 14:49 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-08 01:58 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 23:21 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 02:10 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-21 10:41 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-21 13:31 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 06:00 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-21 14:09 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-04-22 10:59 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-22 11:41 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-04-22 14:13 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-22 14:06 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-22 15:42 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-22 15:57 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-22 16:43 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-24 05:35 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-24 11:22 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-24 11:18 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-25 01:21 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-25 16:49 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-05-03 21:07 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-03 23:25 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work gwj.nexus@gmail.com - 2015-05-05 10:53 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-05 19:10 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Gerry <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-05-06 21:41 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-07 11:05 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-08 11:35 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-06 14:09 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-04 03:08 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-04 09:23 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-04 20:32 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-06 13:26 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-06 20:00 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-06 13:24 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-08 12:07 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-08 18:26 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-09 01:10 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-12 16:13 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-13 00:11 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-04 16:58 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work gwj.nexus@gmail.com - 2015-05-05 11:24 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-06 13:13 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-24 13:11 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-25 21:05 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-21 14:06 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-22 20:05 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-23 05:57 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-23 10:50 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-24 11:59 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-05-12 23:18 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-12 20:24 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-04-24 08:56 -1000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-24 12:09 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-04-24 22:29 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-15 17:54 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-02 09:04 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-02 21:04 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-03 10:48 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 17:52 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 16:13 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-11 16:56 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-12 09:28 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-03 10:26 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-04-05 21:54 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-26 01:20 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-26 15:09 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-04-27 03:13 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-01 14:59 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-05-01 19:38 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-01 16:59 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 15:56 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-01 22:45 +0200
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-05-02 02:58 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-05-02 11:51 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-02 12:25 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-02 16:45 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-02 19:12 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-03 16:23 +0000
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-03 15:47 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-05-04 10:11 +0100
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-05-04 09:16 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work roman.pavlyuk.0@gmail.com - 2015-05-04 10:15 -0700
Re: bug in VFX --- IF does't work "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-15 23:35 +0000
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-12 18:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <552abfbc$0$23244$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #38157 |
In article <mgeagb$64v$1@dont-email.me>, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >On 4/12/2015 12:40 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: >> Earlier I said this to Jason: >> On Thursday, April 2, 2015 at 9:04:42 PM UTC-7, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: >>> Jason, you are making a big mistake by accepting a language standard >that is owned by a vendor --- you can't claim to be a Forth programmer >either, unless you buy their product --- this is corruption of the >language-standard concept. >>> >>> Using Gforth will not make you a Forth programmer --- Gforth is >incompatible with both SwiftForth and VFX (although not in the same >way). >>> >>> With Forth-200x, we are rapidly getting to the point where there >effectively is no Forth language-standard at all, but if you don't use >SwiftForth or VFX then you are denounced as being non-standard and not a >Forth programmer at all --- this is despite the fact that SwiftForth and >VFX are not compatible with each other --- ultimately, Leon Wagner and >Stephen Pelc are on the Forth-200x committee and they say who is a Forth >programmer and who isn't. >> >> Now we have Albert telling me that I'm not a Forth programmer at all >because I'm not aware of what is in the "marketplace." > >I notice you didn't quote Albert, but rather only yourself. I guess >that is because a quote would dispel your hallucinations. Don't be too hard on this guy. I'm of quite a similar disposition, a narcissist with an inferioty complex. I got over it. > > >> On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 3:48:16 AM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote: >>> So again Hugh isn't much aware of what's available in the marketplace. >> >> Albert, you have already admitted to being a Wikipedia editor: >> >https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.lang.forth/lc53/comp.lang.forth/qqlp1gZnVic/kjeAwWCaR1MJ >> Only total losers write Wikipedia articles --- so, your criticism is >meaningless to me. > >Lol. Writing about something you know makes you less knowledgeable? You missed the irony. He reacts to a criticism of mine (unfounded in hindsight) on his edit of a inferiority entry about random numbers. He deleted his contribution. I've promised to edit that entry to set things straight, but I wanted to wait until the feud blows over. I still want to make good on that promise, not so much for the benefit of Hugh, but of the readers that now miss some insight that Hugh contributed. > >-- > >Rick Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-13 00:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <952c9588-8fea-493e-ad6e-dc570ac34bc7@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #38160 |
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 11:55:58 AM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote: > In article <mgeagb$64v$1@dont-email.me>, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >On 4/12/2015 12:40 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > >> Albert, you have already admitted to being a Wikipedia editor: > >> > >https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.lang.forth/lc53/comp.lang.forth/qqlp1gZnVic/kjeAwWCaR1MJ > >> Only total losers write Wikipedia articles --- so, your criticism is > >meaningless to me. > > > >Lol. Writing about something you know makes you less knowledgeable? > > You missed the irony. He reacts to a criticism of mine (unfounded in hindsight) > on his edit of a inferiority entry about random numbers. He deleted his > contribution. > I've promised to edit that entry to set things straight, but I wanted to > wait until the feud blows over. I still want to make good on that promise, > not so much for the benefit of Hugh, but of the readers that now miss > some insight that Hugh contributed. I don't want to have any contributions in Wikipedia. Nobody ever benefits from Wikipedia in any way. Wikipedia is mostly used by kids writing school reports on subjects that they know nothing about, to be graded by teachers who also know nothing about the subject. So the students benefit by getting an 'A' --- but this is a negative contribution to society because those students eventually graduate knowing pretty much nothing about any of the subjects that they got an 'A' in --- "These tigers have souls of sheep, heads full of wind." Wikipedia is also a haven for trolls who get a thrill out of deleting edits written by people who actually know something about the subject. Calls them "stupid," dismisses their work as "original research," replaces it with a load of pseudo-intellectual manure. Wikipedia is a negative contribution to society because it empowers trolls, giving them a platform that they would not otherwise have --- "The earth has become small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small." I'm a programmer --- I write programs --- I don't want to be a "leading expert" like Elizabeth Rather, or a Wikipedia editor like Albert v.d.Horst, or a college professor like Anton Ertl, or anything other such nonsense.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-13 08:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <552b795a$0$23249$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #38165 |
In article <952c9588-8fea-493e-ad6e-dc570ac34bc7@googlegroups.com>, <hughaguilar96@gmail.com> wrote: <SNIP> > >Wikipedia is also a haven for trolls who get a thrill out of deleting >edits written by people who actually know something about the subject. >Calls them "stupid," dismisses their work as "original research," >replaces it with a load of pseudo-intellectual manure. Wikipedia is a >negative contribution to society because it empowers trolls, giving them >a platform that they would not otherwise have --- "The earth has become >small, and on it hops the last man, who makes everything small." YOu forget the most common, marking it with "needs citation rom a reliable source" then delete it after a while. <SNIP> Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-05-12 23:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <miu174$eks$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #38165 |
hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > Wikipedia is also a haven for trolls who get a > thrill out of deleting edits written by people who > actually know something about the subject. Calls > them "stupid," dismisses their work as "original > research," There may be something to this. I have often seen Wikipedia articles that had been tagged for not having enough citations (references to web articles). The question that came to my mind was this: "How can one be sure that any additional referenced web articles would be accurate, correct, and honest?" If the existence of an article on Wikipedia doesn't guarantee its accuracy, then why should we assume that articles on other sites must be accurate? What does it prove if a bunch of innacurate web articles cite each other?
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-05-12 20:35 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <91b54477-e602-4208-8fc7-6bbd46bdcd82@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #39046 |
On Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 4:10:33 PM UTC-7, WJ wrote: > hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > > > Wikipedia is also a haven for trolls who get a > > thrill out of deleting edits written by people who > > actually know something about the subject. Calls > > them "stupid," dismisses their work as "original > > research," > > There may be something to this. I have often seen Wikipedia articles > that had been tagged for not having enough citations (references to > web articles). The question that came to my mind was this: > "How can one be sure that any additional referenced web articles > would be accurate, correct, and honest?" > > If the existence of an article on Wikipedia doesn't guarantee > its accuracy, then why should we assume that articles on other > sites must be accurate? What does it prove if a bunch of > innacurate web articles cite each other? Wikipedia is founded upon the idea that original research is meaningless --- this is obviously not true --- original research is what separates the humans from the animals, who rely entirely on instinct. Actually, I have read that crows are smart enough to bend a wire into a hook and use the hook for pulling food out of an enclosure that they can't reach into otherwise. That is pretty smart, especially considering that there is nothing similar to a wire in their natural environment (if you bend a twig it either breaks or snaps back straight). So the crows are guilty of original research too --- Wikipedia would have to ban the crows from the planet as well as the humans, in keeping with their idea that original research is meaningless.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-05-13 10:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <555322fb$0$21298$e4fe514c@dreader37.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #39046 |
In article <miu174$eks$1@dont-email.me>, WJ <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> wrote: >hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > >> Wikipedia is also a haven for trolls who get a >> thrill out of deleting edits written by people who >> actually know something about the subject. Calls >> them "stupid," dismisses their work as "original >> research," > >There may be something to this. I have often seen Wikipedia articles >that had been tagged for not having enough citations (references to >web articles). The question that came to my mind was this: >"How can one be sure that any additional referenced web articles >would be accurate, correct, and honest?" > >If the existence of an article on Wikipedia doesn't guarantee >its accuracy, then why should we assume that articles on other >sites must be accurate? What does it prove if a bunch of >innacurate web articles cite each other? Unless there is a deliberate attempt or a common source (in breeding), the Bayesian likelihood of it being right goes way up. In particular in the math articles I've yet to find a first real mistake (I occasionally improved on wording). Everybody can add a "needs quotation". They are not always noteworthy. Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-05-13 15:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mj0ab3$qcf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #39046 |
On 5/12/2015 7:09 PM, WJ wrote: > hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > >> Wikipedia is also a haven for trolls who get a >> thrill out of deleting edits written by people who >> actually know something about the subject. Calls >> them "stupid," dismisses their work as "original >> research," > > There may be something to this. I have often seen Wikipedia articles > that had been tagged for not having enough citations (references to > web articles). The question that came to my mind was this: > "How can one be sure that any additional referenced web articles > would be accurate, correct, and honest?" > > If the existence of an article on Wikipedia doesn't guarantee > its accuracy, then why should we assume that articles on other > sites must be accurate? What does it prove if a bunch of > innacurate web articles cite each other? That is the reason why wikipedia doesn't allow citations from wikipedia. I have found wikipedia entries which use a reference, then say the exact opposite of what the reference said. As with any "authority", take it with a grain of salt. -- Rick
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-05-13 13:13 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <abbc3476-c6c4-48bd-87fc-58c83c62d72a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #39083 |
On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 12:58:32 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote: > ...wikipedia doesn't allow citations from wikipedia. That isn't true. When I deleted my LC53 reference from Wikipedia, I searched Wikipedia and found that somebody else had referenced my LC53 in a different article without my knowledge --- so I deleted that one too, also on the basis of it being original research. Wikipedia editors are primarily informed by reading Wikipedia, and anybody who actually knows anything about any subject will be driven out of Wikipedia. Original-research is to Wikipedia what original-sin is to Catholicism.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-05-14 11:40 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <555489a2$0$23194$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #39085 |
In article <abbc3476-c6c4-48bd-87fc-58c83c62d72a@googlegroups.com>, <hughaguilar96@gmail.com> wrote: >On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 12:58:32 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote: >> ...wikipedia doesn't allow citations from wikipedia. > >That isn't true. When I deleted my LC53 reference from Wikipedia, I >searched Wikipedia and found that somebody else had referenced my LC53 >in a different article without my knowledge --- so I deleted that one >too, also on the basis of it being original research. > >Wikipedia editors are primarily informed by reading Wikipedia, and >anybody who actually knows anything about any subject will be driven out >of Wikipedia. > >Original-research is to Wikipedia what original-sin is to Catholicism. For the record: your LC53 is not an example of original research. 1] It is an implementation of one of Knuths recommandation for a multiplicative random generator. As such it is respectable and worthy of being referenced in the wikipedia article. OTOH your noviceforth efforts are not noteworthy enough to be the subject of a separate wikipedia article (and neither is my ciforth). Groetjes Albert 1] This is not saying that you didn't come up with it yourself! -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-05-14 18:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <106f14a9-8603-4db6-bdc9-d43a2087f8b0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #39107 |
On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 4:40:20 AM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote: > In article <abbc3476-c6c4-48bd-87fc-58c83c62d72a@googlegroups.com>, > <hughaguilar96@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 12:58:32 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote: > >> ...wikipedia doesn't allow citations from wikipedia. > > > >That isn't true. When I deleted my LC53 reference from Wikipedia, I > >searched Wikipedia and found that somebody else had referenced my LC53 > >in a different article without my knowledge --- so I deleted that one > >too, also on the basis of it being original research. > > > >Wikipedia editors are primarily informed by reading Wikipedia, and > >anybody who actually knows anything about any subject will be driven out > >of Wikipedia. > > > >Original-research is to Wikipedia what original-sin is to Catholicism. > > For the record: your LC53 is not an example of original research. 1] > It is an implementation of one of Knuths recommandation for a multiplicative > random generator. As such it is respectable and worthy of being referenced > in the wikipedia article. OTOH your noviceforth efforts are not noteworthy > enough to be the subject of a separate wikipedia article (and neither is my > ciforth). > > Groetjes Albert > > 1] This is not saying that you didn't come up with it yourself! > -- > Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS > Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. > albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst Now you say that LC53 is "respectable" --- who has any respect for it? --- who am I supposed to ask permission from? Previously, this this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.lang.forth/lc53/comp.lang.forth/qqlp1gZnVic/kjeAwWCaR1MJ you said: On Saturday, November 23, 2013 at 9:25:28 AM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote: > ... > There is no theoretical motivation or test results behind it, > ... > It has nothing to offer over the first generator mentioned (from > Numerical Recipees) : less trusted source, slower implementation, > smaller period. It has with a high probability, never been used in > a program with some notoriety. > > This may be a very poor generator, and it may reflect poorly on the > reputation of the Forth community. It may give a wrong impression about > the standing of Hugh's novice package in the Forth community. > > I ask Hugh to remove the LC53 from the wikipedia entry... I don't want to respond to you by defending my LC53 and striving to get it put back in the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_congruential_generator); "Parameters in Common Use". By responding to you, I would be agreeing that you are the expert on Forth and the champion of the "Forth community" (you used this term twice), and I would be agreeing that my standing in the "Forth community" is as a plebeian who has to ask permission from you before I make my Forth code public lest that it reflect poorly on the reputation of the "Forth community" that you represent. Who exactly elected you to this exulted position of authority? This is what I find distasteful about Wikipedia editors --- not just Albert v.d.Horst, but all Wikipedia editors --- that they are self-appointed arbiters on what is worthy an unworthy, despite a complete lack of evidence that they know anything about any subject or have any accomplishments of their own (they can't actually have any knowledge or accomplishments, because then they would be guilty of original-research and would no longer be qualified to be Wikipedia editors). Albert v.d.Horst is the author of ciForth (the "ci" means "computer intelligence"). Jeff Fox told me that ciForth is just a warmed-over FIG-Forth, and the "computer intelligence" was just a disassembler --- he was baffled as to why a disassembler would be considered to be a "computer intelligence," and I don't know either --- Albert's stab at AI seems to be comparable to that of Arthur Murray (Mentifex) in that it doesn't really do anything, with the major difference being that Arthur is a gentleman and Albert is not. Albert refers to his "computer intelligence" with the female pronoun "she" --- most likely, the whole thing is just a jerk-off fantasy about having a female slave --- Albert is jerk, as are all Wikipedia editors.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-06-12 21:51 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mlg27q$u8p$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #39085 |
On 5/13/2015 4:13 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 12:58:32 PM UTC-7, rickman wrote: >> ...wikipedia doesn't allow citations from wikipedia. > > That isn't true. When I deleted my LC53 reference from Wikipedia, I searched Wikipedia and found that somebody else had referenced my LC53 in a different article without my knowledge --- so I deleted that one too, also on the basis of it being original research. People may get away with all sorts of things. But the rules of wikipedia say to not cite wikipedia... "Do not use articles from Wikipedia as sources." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Wikipedia_and_sources_that_mirror_or_use_it ...<meaningless stuff snipped>... -- Rick
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| From | "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-13 00:13 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mgeu5i$i3p$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #38148 |
on 12/04/2015 11:22:07, wrote: > On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@gmail.com > wrote: > >>I mostly use MACRO: in the novice-package to boost the speed. This use of M= >>ACRO: could be dispensed with given an optimizing compiler that automatical= >>ly inlined short words. This is done by defining words with ICODE in SwiftF= >>orth; you may have something similar in VFX (I haven't really spent any tim= >>e reading the manual). I'm not aware of any compiler that inlines short col= >>on words though. > > VFX does. Perhaps you should read more of the manual. > > Stephen > Note that the effect is different, since Hugh's MACRO: EVALUATEs a string and compiles its contents when invoked, not when MACRO: is defined. Anton wrote about this technique and why it can bite badly 20 (!) years ago. https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/why-evaluate-is-bad. Much of the novice package is of the "make stuff go quicker" variety, not about correctness or making up for perceived shortcomings in ANS, nor even helping the Forth novice.
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-12 20:43 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4304a3fa-d692-4ebb-98b3-234bcf0b78ea@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #38163 |
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 4:13:48 PM UTC-7, Alex McDonald wrote: > on 12/04/2015 11:22:07, wrote: > > On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@gmail.com > > wrote: > > > >>I mostly use MACRO: in the novice-package to boost the speed. This use of M= > >>ACRO: could be dispensed with given an optimizing compiler that automatical= > >>ly inlined short words. This is done by defining words with ICODE in SwiftF= > >>orth; you may have something similar in VFX (I haven't really spent any tim= > >>e reading the manual). I'm not aware of any compiler that inlines short col= > >>on words though. > > > > VFX does. Perhaps you should read more of the manual. > > > > Stephen > > > > Note that the effect is different, since Hugh's MACRO: EVALUATEs a string > and compiles its contents when invoked, not when MACRO: is defined. Anton > wrote about this technique and why it can bite badly 20 (!) years ago. > https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/why-evaluate-is-bad. Much of the > novice package is of the "make stuff go quicker" variety, not about > correctness or making up for perceived shortcomings in ANS, nor even > helping the Forth novice. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said: "Irony is wasted on the stupid." In MFX my macro stored the xt values so I had early binding. Later on I ported this to ANS-Forth for the benefit of my encryption cracking code, which I had available for download on a website that I had at that time. Then, Marcel Hendrix posted my code on comp.lang.forth with my name removed from the copyright notice: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.lang.forth/lc53/comp.lang.forth/wP5nw1ClzsM/E-TV9v2y9RoJ Then I got criticized by Ron Aaron: On Tuesday, November 24, 2009 at 11:37:04 PM UTC-7, ron wrote: > On Nov 25, 7:38 am, Hugh Aguilar <hugoagui...@rosycrew.com> wrote: > > > I didn't compile your program because it is not ANS-Forth. I don't > > have iForth and I'm not going to spend the $100 to buy it. I really > > need ANS-Forth in order to be able to run programs such as this. > > I suppose "gforth" is not an ANS-Forth? Your version of the program > does not compile under gforth 0.7.0: > > lc53.f:27: Cannot tick compile-only word (try COMP' ... DROP) > over ['] >>>;<<< = if 2drop postpone ; immediate exit > then Then Anton Ertl explained: On Wednesday, November 25, 2009 at 4:14:59 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote: > ron <ron@ronware.org> writes: > >On Nov 25, 8:57=A0am, Hugh Aguilar <hugoagui...@rosycrew.com> wrote: > >> On Nov 24, 11:37=A0pm, ron <r...@ronware.org> wrote: > >> > lc53.f:27: Cannot tick compile-only word (try COMP' ... DROP) > ^^^^^^ ^^ > file line > > >> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 over ['] >>>;<<< =3D if =A02drop =A0postpone ; = > ... > >> I don't use gforth. What does that error message mean? What is a > >> "compile-only word?" > > A word without interpretation semantics. > > >It doesn't like you taking the address of ";" , though I don't > >understand why. > > Because ";" has no execution or interpretation semantics. The > execution token returned by ['] represents the execution semantics, > but since ";" does not have that ... > > - anton Is this starting to sound familiar? This is the same bug in ANS-Forth that I have now fixed. Now that I have figured out how to work around the bug, I could rewrite MACRO: to save the xt values (every word now has an xt, including ; that crashed tick previously). I'm somewhat hesitant to do this though. I would have to special-case all the immediate words that pull data out of the input stream --- [CHAR] ['] C" S" ." TO etc.. This is easy enough. The problem is that my new MACRO: won't work with any immediate words that the user define that pull data out of the input stream. This isn't so bad if it is just for my use (as in MFX, that was used only by myself and my coworker), because I can upgrade MACRO: to special-case those too as needed. It is bad for the novice-package however, because it is supposedly for general use, and I can't expect the user to upgrade MACRO: to special-case any immediate word he may write that pulls data out of the input stream. As a practical matter, I don't have any users --- everybody on comp.lang.forth says that my novice-package "sucks" and is "crap" --- but it is theoretically for general use, so I don't want any pit-falls. It is possible to save all the generated code, and just paste it in to the middle of words that use it. This was done pretty routinely in Forth-83. That worked because the ITC code is guaranteed to be relocatable (BRANCH and 0BRANCH used relative offsets). We don't have any such guarantee in ANS-Forth however --- so this is an example of Forth-83 being superior to ANS-Forth. Anyway, Alex is wrong when he says that I don't know about the problems with late-binding, and that I need to learn at Anton's knee. This is just a typical comp.lang.forth troll attack --- pretty much the same as when he said that I have a "serious misunderstanding of how pointers work." His criticism is worth the same to me as Alberts, which is nothing. This subject is an example of having six reasons for and a half dozen against --- there are going to be pitfalls whether I store xt values (early-binding) or source-code (late-binding) --- I have done both, and have been criticized both times. Similarly, when I have implemented binary-trees (symtab.4th and association.4th), I was criticized heavily for not using a hash-table, although I'm sure that if I had used a hash-table I would have been criticized for not using a binary-tree. As a practical matter, it doesn't really matter how I write my code --- the comp.lang.forth crowd will always say that it "sucks" and is "crap" --- this is what comp.lang.forth is all about. BTW: Has anybody else noticed that everybody using ANS-Forth is over 40 years old? There is no next generation of ANS-Forth programmers. Everybody in the real-world knows that ANS-Forth is a cult --- they don't want to join --- they are going to continue to ignore ANS-Forth and hope that it dies out. In ANS-Forth, a person either does what I do, which is write software that works and get told that it "sucks" and is "crap" --- or the person spends all his time hanging out on comp.lang.forth telling programmers like me that their code "sucks" and is "crap" --- as Fredriche Neitzsche said: "And there are some who have only one choice: to become evil beasts or evil trainers of beasts --- I would not build my house among such."
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| From | "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-13 09:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mgg05c$94l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #38164 |
on 13/04/2015 04:43:06, wrote:
> On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 4:13:48 PM UTC-7, Alex McDonald wrote:
>> on 12/04/2015 11:22:07, wrote:
>> > On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>I mostly use MACRO: in the novice-package to boost the speed. This use
> of M> >>ACRO: could be dispensed with given an optimizing compiler
> that automat ical> >>ly inlined short words. This is done by defining
> words with ICODE in Sw iftF> >>orth; you may have something similar in
> VFX (I haven't really spent any tim> >>e reading the manual). I'm not
> aware of any compiler that inlines short col> >>on words though.
>> >
>> > VFX does. Perhaps you should read more of the manual.
>> >
>> > Stephen
>> >
>>
>> Note that the effect is different, since Hugh's MACRO: EVALUATEs a string
>> and compiles its contents when invoked, not when MACRO: is defined. Anton
>> wrote about this technique and why it can bite badly 20 (!) years ago.
>> https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/why-evaluate-is-bad. Much of the
>> novice package is of the "make stuff go quicker" variety, not about
>> correctness or making up for perceived shortcomings in ANS, nor even
>> helping the Forth novice.
>
>
> In MFX my macro stored the xt values so I had early binding. Later on
> I por ted this to ANS-Forth for the benefit of my encryption cracking
> code, which I had available for download on a website that I had at
> that time. ... This is the same bug in ANS-Forth
> that I have now fixed.
As has been pointed out repeatedly, you haven't fixed a bug. You've
simply bumped into ANS Forth's failure to accomodate your version of
reality.
>
> Now that I have figured out how to work around the bug, I could
> rewrite MAC RO: to save the xt values (every word now has an xt,
> including ; that crash ed tick previously). I'm somewhat hesitant to
> do this though. I would have to special-case all the immediate words
> that pull data out of the input str eam --- [CHAR] ['] C" S" ." TO
> etc.. This is easy enough. The problem is th at my new MACRO: won't
> work with any immediate words that the user define t hat pull data out
> of the input stream. This isn't so bad if it is just for my use (as in
> MFX, that was used only by myself and my coworker), because I can
> upgrade MACRO: to special-case those too as needed. It is bad for the
> novice-package however, because it is supposedly for general use, and
> I can 't expect the user to upgrade MACRO: to special-case any
> immediate word he may write that pulls data out of the input stream.
>
I'm not sure of your motive in providing this anti-feature word MACRO:.
The claims for what it is meant to do or enable or make easier for the
user are summarised by you as;
\ We have MACRO:
\ You can replace the colon with MACRO: and your word will execute
faster. \ This word can also include r-stack manipulators, which a colon
word couldn't.
No notes on late vs early binding here. There are a few notes on the
"chaos" using MACRO: can cause later on in the source code, but that's
it.
Here's an example of where we're supposed to get a speed benefit. There
are lots more like this.
macro: roll-third ( a b c -- a b c a ) \ same as ROT
2 roll ;
Beyond the incorrect stack comment (it's for 2 PICK) this is of benefit
how? : ROLL-THIRD POSTPONE ROT ; IMMEDIATE or even using ROT instead of
ROLL-THIRD would seem to be a much better solution. Most (if not all) of
your macros would benefit from *not* being macros.
All the other attempts at storing XTs or entire strings of parsed input
and so on seems to be a rather expensive replacement for the system's own
interpret/compile cycle. There are very debatable speed benefits for what
is no more than a substitutionless string expansion at compile time.
> It is possible to save all the generated code, and just paste it in to
> the middle of words that use it. This was done pretty routinely in
> Forth-83. Th at worked because the ITC code is guaranteed to be
> relocatable (BRANCH and 0BRANCH used relative offsets). We don't have
> any such guarantee in ANS-For th however --- so this is an example of
> Forth-83 being superior to ANS-Fort h.
>
ITC code is not defined to be nor is it guaranteed to be relocatable.
Although use of relative addresses in Forth-83 may have been common,
Forth-83 did not define the branch address as a relative offset.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-14 09:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <552ce1ee$0$23184$e4fe514c@dreader34.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #38167 |
In article <mgg05c$94l$1@dont-email.me>, Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> wrote: >on 13/04/2015 04:43:06, wrote: >> On Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 4:13:48 PM UTC-7, Alex McDonald wrote: >>> on 12/04/2015 11:22:07, wrote: >>> > On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@gmail.com >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >>I mostly use MACRO: in the novice-package to boost the speed. This use >> of M> >>ACRO: could be dispensed with given an optimizing compiler >> that automat ical> >>ly inlined short words. This is done by defining >> words with ICODE in Sw iftF> >>orth; you may have something similar in >> VFX (I haven't really spent any tim> >>e reading the manual). I'm not >> aware of any compiler that inlines short col> >>on words though. >>> > >>> > VFX does. Perhaps you should read more of the manual. >>> > >>> > Stephen >>> > >>> >>> Note that the effect is different, since Hugh's MACRO: EVALUATEs a string >>> and compiles its contents when invoked, not when MACRO: is defined. Anton >>> wrote about this technique and why it can bite badly 20 (!) years ago. >>> https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/why-evaluate-is-bad. Much of the >>> novice package is of the "make stuff go quicker" variety, not about >>> correctness or making up for perceived shortcomings in ANS, nor even >>> helping the Forth novice. >> > >> >> In MFX my macro stored the xt values so I had early binding. Later on >> I por ted this to ANS-Forth for the benefit of my encryption cracking >> code, which I had available for download on a website that I had at >> that time. ... This is the same bug in ANS-Forth >> that I have now fixed. > >As has been pointed out repeatedly, you haven't fixed a bug. You've >simply bumped into ANS Forth's failure to accomodate your version of >reality. > >> >> Now that I have figured out how to work around the bug, I could >> rewrite MAC RO: to save the xt values (every word now has an xt, >> including ; that crash ed tick previously). I'm somewhat hesitant to >> do this though. I would have to special-case all the immediate words >> that pull data out of the input str eam --- [CHAR] ['] C" S" ." TO >> etc.. This is easy enough. The problem is th at my new MACRO: won't >> work with any immediate words that the user define t hat pull data out >> of the input stream. This isn't so bad if it is just for my use (as in >> MFX, that was used only by myself and my coworker), because I can >> upgrade MACRO: to special-case those too as needed. It is bad for the >> novice-package however, because it is supposedly for general use, and >> I can 't expect the user to upgrade MACRO: to special-case any >> immediate word he may write that pulls data out of the input stream. >> > >I'm not sure of your motive in providing this anti-feature word MACRO:. >The claims for what it is meant to do or enable or make easier for the >user are summarised by you as; > >\ We have MACRO: >\ You can replace the colon with MACRO: and your word will execute >faster. \ This word can also include r-stack manipulators, which a colon >word couldn't. > >No notes on late vs early binding here. There are a few notes on the >"chaos" using MACRO: can cause later on in the source code, but that's >it. > >Here's an example of where we're supposed to get a speed benefit. There >are lots more like this. > >macro: roll-third ( a b c -- a b c a ) \ same as ROT > 2 roll ; > >Beyond the incorrect stack comment (it's for 2 PICK) this is of benefit >how? : ROLL-THIRD POSTPONE ROT ; IMMEDIATE or even using ROT instead of >ROLL-THIRD would seem to be a much better solution. Most (if not all) of >your macros would benefit from *not* being macros. > >All the other attempts at storing XTs or entire strings of parsed input >and so on seems to be a rather expensive replacement for the system's own >interpret/compile cycle. There are very debatable speed benefits for what >is no more than a substitutionless string expansion at compile time. > >> It is possible to save all the generated code, and just paste it in to >> the middle of words that use it. This was done pretty routinely in >> Forth-83. Th at worked because the ITC code is guaranteed to be >> relocatable (BRANCH and 0BRANCH used relative offsets). We don't have >> any such guarantee in ANS-For th however --- so this is an example of >> Forth-83 being superior to ANS-Fort h. >> > >ITC code is not defined to be nor is it guaranteed to be relocatable. >Although use of relative addresses in Forth-83 may have been common, >Forth-83 did not define the branch address as a relative offset. > Indeed with ITC and relative branching and a good end-sentinel for interpreted code called '(;) we can do (leaving out security) : :I CREATE IMMEDIATE ] DOES> BEGIN @+ DUP '(;) <> WHILE COMPILE, REPEAT DROP ; (At least something like that works in ciforth). This is a little bit dangerous because of the magic number, but at least it does early binding. groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-14 10:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <4b4197a5-b87e-410a-ba29-b20491d81f13@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #38184 |
On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 2:46:23 AM UTC-7, Albert van der Horst wrote: > Indeed with ITC and relative branching and a good end-sentinel for > interpreted code called '(;) we can do (leaving out security) > > : :I CREATE IMMEDIATE ] DOES> BEGIN @+ DUP '(;) <> WHILE COMPILE, REPEAT DROP ; > > (At least something like that works in ciforth). > This is a little bit dangerous because of the magic number, but at least it > does early binding. It doesn't have to be ITC. All that is necessary is to have the standard require that all code be relocatable. This is not standardizing implementation; this is standardizing behavior. For most processors, this is a freebie with STC because branches are relative. In my 65c02 cross-compiler, the assembler when assembling a branch would make sure that it was within the range (a signed 8-bit offset) --- if it wasn't in range, then the assembler would assemble the opposite branch around a JMP instruction to the destination. In this case, the code is no longer relocatable. Most modern processors have more than 8 bits for branch operands though, so this should not occur very often. Also, it is possible to just have the compiler abort rather than fix-up the problem with a branch around a JMP --- then the programmer can fix the problem manually by factoring some of the code in there into sub-functions so the branch is within range. Anyway, with my language I will require code to be relocatable --- this makes inlining easy --- and, for most modern processors, code is relocatable anyway without any effort by the compiler-writer.
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| From | "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-14 18:24 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <mgjiek$1f1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #38188 |
on 14/04/2015 18:01:43, hugh mistake wrote: > > It doesn't have to be ITC. All that is necessary is to have the > standard re quire that all code be relocatable. This is not > standardizing implementatio n; this is standardizing behavior. For > most processors, this is a freebie w ith STC because branches are > relative. All to support inlining? That's a ridiculous requirement. BTW, on 32 bit Intel, addresses of things (register/memory) are all absolute. Only immediate call/jumps are relative. \ ----------- CALL/JMP opcodes (octal) ------------------ \ 350 disp CALL imm32 Relative displacement \ 377 x2m CALL r/m Absolute address \ 351+d disp JMP imm8/imm32 Relative \ 377 x4m JMP r/m Absolute \ 160+cc disp Jcc imm8 Relative \ 017 20+cc disp Jcc imm32 Relative
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| From | "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-14 17:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <op.xw3pesbnwa0t4m@localhost> |
| In reply to | #38190 |
On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:24:29 -0400, Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> wrote: > on 14/04/2015 18:01:43, hugh mistake wrote: >> It doesn't have to be ITC. All that is necessary is to have the >> standard re quire that all code be relocatable. This is not >> standardizing implementatio n; this is standardizing behavior. For >> most processors, this is a freebie w ith STC because branches are >> relative. > > All to support inlining? That's a ridiculous requirement. > > BTW, on 32 bit Intel, addresses of things (register/memory) > are all absolute. Only immediate call/jumps are relative. > > \ ----------- CALL/JMP opcodes (octal) ------------------ > \ 350 disp CALL imm32 Relative displacement > \ 377 x2m CALL r/m Absolute address > \ 351+d disp JMP imm8/imm32 Relative > \ 377 x4m JMP r/m Absolute > \ 160+cc disp Jcc imm8 Relative > \ 017 20+cc disp Jcc imm32 Relative > > > Only? ... It seems you overlooked one relative instruction. You're missing LOOP and LOOPcc in your table: (your notation) 340 disp LOOPNE imm8 Relative 340 disp LOOPNZ imm8 Relative 341 disp LOOPE imm8 Relative 341 disp LOOPZ imm8 Relative 342 disp LOOP imm8 Relative You may want to convert those to a +cc form ... 340+cc disp LOOPcc imm8 Relative Or, maybe, convert them to a +lc since the range of condition codes is limited. 340+lc disp LOOPcc imm8 Relative Technically, your 'imm8' are 'rel8' and 'imm32' are 'rel32'. Rod Pemberton -- Cars kill more people than guns in the U.S. Yet, no one is trying to take away your car.
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| From | Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-13 18:08 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <mggm4e$pst$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #38164 |
On 4/13/15 06:43, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > I think it was Oscar Wilde who said: "Irony is wasted on the stupid." > > In MFX my macro stored the xt values so I had early binding. Later on I ported this to ANS-Forth for the benefit of my encryption cracking code, which I had available for download on a website that I had at that time. Then, Marcel Hendrix posted my code on comp.lang.forth with my name removed from the copyright notice: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.lang.forth/lc53/comp.lang.forth/wP5nw1ClzsM/E-TV9v2y9RoJ > > Then I got criticized by Ron Aaron: > On Tuesday, November 24, 2009 at 11:37:04 PM UTC-7, ron wrote: You do realize this was over five years ago? Wow, you know how to hold a grudge! >> I suppose "gforth" is not an ANS-Forth? Your version of the program >> does not compile under gforth 0.7.0: But my criticism was simply a statement of fact. Besides knowing how to hold a grudge, you also excel at ignoring factual statements. Maybe you should run for President of the USA?
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| From | "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-06 22:07 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <op.xwo9ijf8wa0t4m@localhost> |
| In reply to | #38009 |
On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 09:56:54 -0400, Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > hughaguilar96@gmail.com writes: >> On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 3:50:03 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote: >>> Immediacy is not the issue, the lack of defined interpretation >>> semantics is. You can tick immediate words with intepretation >>> semantics like ( and \ or user-defined immediate words all day long, >>> and the result is defined by the standard. >> >> So, what attribute does IF have other than immediacy? >> you said that immediacy is not the issue --- so what is the issue? > > The lack of defined interpretation semantics. > > BTW, the standard does not define IF to be immediate. Are you saying ANS Forth excludes a Forth from being interpreted? 1) Please explain how IF can execute within a colon-definition for an interpreted Forth if the word isn't marked IMMEDIATE . 2) Please explain how IF can have separate compilation and interpretation semantics for an interpreted Forth when IF needs to marked as IMMEDIATE to function within a colon-definition? Remember, you only have two STATEs, interpret and compile, and immediacy via IMMEDIATE . There is no compile-only flag, etc, available to you for an interpreted Forth. I.e., claiming that "Interpretation semantics for this word are undefined" means that interpretation semantics can't be defined is clearly wrong. That would break all, or most, interpreted Forths, I think. Historically, interpretation semantics were defined for all such words. Rod Pemberton -- Cars kill more people than guns in the U.S. Yet, no one is trying to take away your car.
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