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The millenium jump

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  The millenium jump Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-03-23 15:36 +0100
    Re: The millenium jump Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-23 08:23 -0700
      Re: The millenium jump forthisit@gmail.com - 2015-03-23 09:27 -0700
      Re: The millenium jump forthisit@gmail.com - 2015-03-23 09:29 -0700
        Re: The millenium jump Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 09:38 -0700
      Re: The millenium jump Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-03-24 02:16 +0100
    Re: The millenium jump Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-03-23 18:01 +0000
      Re: The millenium jump "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-03-23 08:09 -1000
        Re: The millenium jump Hans-Peter Diettrich <DrDiettrich1@aol.com> - 2015-03-24 02:15 +0100
    The millenium jump Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2015-03-24 03:14 -0700

#37587 — The millenium jump

I've used FIG-FORTH a lot in the 80s, on a variety of processors, and 
now consider to use FORTH again on microcontrollers. From reading 
several contributions I guess that nowadays FORTH is (or can be) 
compiled into native code, not only into threaded code?

What other changes do I have to consider, in detail with very small 
controllers (little RAM, like with ATmel/Arduino)?

DoDi

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#37590

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 7:41:10 AM UTC-7, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> I've used FIG-FORTH a lot in the 80s, on a variety of processors, and 
> now consider to use FORTH again on microcontrollers. From reading 
> several contributions I guess that nowadays FORTH is (or can be) 
> compiled into native code, not only into threaded code?
> 
> What other changes do I have to consider, in detail with very small 
> controllers (little RAM, like with ATmel/Arduino)?
> 
> DoDi

Have you checked out the FIGnition group?  I joined a few months ago,
 but haven't had as much time as I would like to study up on it.  It
 seems to me like it could be an example of what you need.

Mike

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#37592

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 10:24:00 AM UTC-5, Michael Barry wrote:
> On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 7:41:10 AM UTC-7, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> > I've used FIG-FORTH a lot in the 80s, on a variety of processors, and 
> > now consider to use FORTH again on microcontrollers. From reading 
> > several contributions I guess that nowadays FORTH is (or can be) 
> > compiled into native code, not only into threaded code?
> > 
> > What other changes do I have to consider, in detail with very small 
> > controllers (little RAM, like with ATmel/Arduino)?
> > 
> > DoDi
> 
> Have you checked out the FIGnition group?  I joined a few months ago,
>  but haven't had as much time as I would like to study up on it.  It
>  seems to me like it could be an example of what you need.
> 
> Mike

It got the impression it wasn't possible to join the group without purchasing a 
FIGnition. I realize that's not a very big hurdle (<$30?), but still annoying.

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#37593

On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 10:24:00 AM UTC-5, Michael Barry wrote:
> On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 7:41:10 AM UTC-7, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> > I've used FIG-FORTH a lot in the 80s, on a variety of processors, and 
> > now consider to use FORTH again on microcontrollers. From reading 
> > several contributions I guess that nowadays FORTH is (or can be) 
> > compiled into native code, not only into threaded code?
> > 
> > What other changes do I have to consider, in detail with very small 
> > controllers (little RAM, like with ATmel/Arduino)?
> > 
> > DoDi
> 
> Have you checked out the FIGnition group?  I joined a few months ago,
>  but haven't had as much time as I would like to study up on it.  It
>  seems to me like it could be an example of what you need.
> 
> Mike

I got the impression it wasn't possible to join the group without purchasing a 
FIGnition. I realize it's not a very big hurdle (<30?), but still annoying.

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#37594

On Monday, 23 March 2015 16:29:08 UTC, fort...@gmail.com  wrote:
> On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 10:24:00 AM UTC-5, Michael Barry wrote:
> > On Monday, March 23, 2015 at 7:41:10 AM UTC-7, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
> > > I've used FIG-FORTH a lot in the 80s, on a variety of processors, and 
> > > now consider to use FORTH again on microcontrollers. From reading 
> > > several contributions I guess that nowadays FORTH is (or can be) 
> > > compiled into native code, not only into threaded code?
> > > 
> > > What other changes do I have to consider, in detail with very small 
> > > controllers (little RAM, like with ATmel/Arduino)?
> > > 
> > > DoDi
> > 
> > Have you checked out the FIGnition group?  I joined a few months ago,
> >  but haven't had as much time as I would like to study up on it.  It
> >  seems to me like it could be an example of what you need.
> > 
> > Mike
> 
> I got the impression it wasn't possible to join the group without purchasing a 
> FIGnition. I realize it's not a very big hurdle (<30?), but still annoying.

Incorrect. I've been on the group for about 5 years. I don't own a Fignition!

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#37613

Michael Barry schrieb:

> Have you checked out the FIGnition group?  I joined a few months ago,
>  but haven't had as much time as I would like to study up on it.  It
>  seems to me like it could be an example of what you need.

That looks very interesting, but for other reasons. In my computer 
museum I collected a couple of homecomputers, starting with the PET 
2001, but I don't dare to power on any of them now. I implemented FORTH 
on the Atari 600 (800?) in a module, on the Spectrum with Microdrive 
support, and also on my LSI-11.

But now I want to dig into robotics and microcontrollers, and whether I 
can use FORTH there as well.

DoDi

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#37596

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:

> I've used FIG-FORTH a lot in the 80s, on a variety of processors, and
> now consider to use FORTH again on microcontrollers. From reading
> several contributions I guess that nowadays FORTH is (or can be)
> compiled into native code, not only into threaded code?
> 
> What other changes do I have to consider, in detail with very small
> controllers (little RAM, like with ATmel/Arduino)?
> 
> DoDi

There are several ways you can proceed.

You can obtain a small micro-controller development board, install a native 
Forth on it and use that over a comms-line to talk to the Forth on the board 
from, essentially, a dumb terminal.

You can use a Tethered or Umbilical Forth on the target controller, which 
gives you the interactive ability for the target with the full power of the 
host PC available to you. Such targets can continue with what you decide 
they should do after being disconnected from the umbilical.

You can just cross-compile the whole application and dump it on the target. 
You might retain a link for problem solving any erroneous behaviours but it 
is not always necessary.

How you decide to proceed will depend on the resources available on your 
chosen target.

The latest cross compilation tools are very good at generating fully 
optimised machine code for the target processors and can do this in either 
of the later two situations (umbilical or cross-compiled target).

-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1392-426688
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

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#37597

On 3/23/15 8:01 AM, Paul E Bennett wrote:
> Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote:
>
>> I've used FIG-FORTH a lot in the 80s, on a variety of processors, and
>> now consider to use FORTH again on microcontrollers. From reading
>> several contributions I guess that nowadays FORTH is (or can be)
>> compiled into native code, not only into threaded code?
>>
>> What other changes do I have to consider, in detail with very small
>> controllers (little RAM, like with ATmel/Arduino)?
>>
>> DoDi
>
> There are several ways you can proceed.
>
> You can obtain a small micro-controller development board, install a native
> Forth on it and use that over a comms-line to talk to the Forth on the board
> from, essentially, a dumb terminal.
>
> You can use a Tethered or Umbilical Forth on the target controller, which
> gives you the interactive ability for the target with the full power of the
> host PC available to you. Such targets can continue with what you decide
> they should do after being disconnected from the umbilical.
>
> You can just cross-compile the whole application and dump it on the target.
> You might retain a link for problem solving any erroneous behaviours but it
> is not always necessary.
>
> How you decide to proceed will depend on the resources available on your
> chosen target.
>
> The latest cross compilation tools are very good at generating fully
> optimised machine code for the target processors and can do this in either
> of the later two situations (umbilical or cross-compiled target).

To get an idea of what the tethered cross-compilers are like, check out 
SwiftX from forth.com. There are free evaluation versions for most 
common microcontrollers with extensive documentation.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#37612

Elizabeth D. Rather schrieb:
> On 3/23/15 8:01 AM, Paul E Bennett wrote:

>> There are several ways you can proceed.
[...]

> To get an idea of what the tethered cross-compilers are like, check out 
> SwiftX from forth.com. There are free evaluation versions for most 
> common microcontrollers with extensive documentation.

Thanks to all, now I have a lot to read and try out :-)

DoDi

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#37618

With the arduino you could try flashforth.


http://sourceforge.net/projects/flashforth/?source=navbar

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