Groups > comp.lang.forth > #43610 > unrolled thread

Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

Started by	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
First post	2015-11-21 01:20 -0800
Last post	2016-03-02 18:38 +0000
Articles	20 on this page of 45 — 9 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth

Page 1 of 3 [1] 2 3 Next page →

#43610 — Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-21 01:20 -0800
Subject	Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<39aae250-99de-453a-895b-e0816537718a@googlegroups.com>

Our Scouts project documentation / Video is finally ready - it takes the longest ...
http://www.forth-ev.de/

Eurocircuits was one of the sponsors - more details there
http://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/234-eurocircuits-supports-iet-activity-at-peakcamp-201
without the 25 people donating parts, batteries and money it would not have been possible
http://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/posts/page-1

And it is not just soldering - the software for the MicroBox had to be prepared as well
http://www.forth-ev.de/wiki/doku.php/en:projects:microbox:start
And the next level up in Forth programming is included, was there already
http://www.forth-ev.de/wiki/doku.php/en:projects:mmt4ue2:start


MECRISP MEETS MICROBOX M0 -  ARM Cortex
http://www.forth-ev.de/
MSP430 is small, easy to use, but memory is limited. In addition everybody wants ARM.
Well we are on the way: again DIL for easy starting - and fits into the same TicTac Box.
And prepared for MPE ARM LITE which will be added over the next couple of weeks

Olimex Board with NXP processor runs MPE VFX ARM LITE and as well MECRISP 
http://www.forth-ev.de/
More to come as spare time allows.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#43611

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-11-21 01:51 -0800
Message-ID	<87si3zk7du.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to	#43610

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> http://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/234-eurocircuits-supports-iet-activity-at-peakcamp-201

Nice!  I wondered what had happened with this project.  Did you end up
networking the boxes together somehow?

> MECRISP MEETS MICROBOX M0 -  ARM Cortex
> Well we are on the way: again DIL for easy starting - and fits into
> the same TicTac Box.

Also nice, does it mean you got the 0.6" wide 28 pin LPC1114 into the
Tictac box?!  I know they make a DIP8 version but it may have less memory.

Do you know about the Teensy-LC (LC stands for low cost)?

  http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensylc.html

From the page: "It features an ARM Cortex-M0+ processor at 48 MHz, 62K
Flash, 8K RAM, 12 bit analog input & output, hardware Serial, SPI & I2C,
USB, and a total of 27 I/O pins."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43612

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-21 03:22 -0800
Message-ID	<8d60e6a9-95a2-4cdb-a75d-590f021a8e72@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43611

On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:51:30 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > http://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/234-eurocircuits-supports-iet-activity-at-peakcamp-201
> 
> Nice!  I wondered what had happened with this project.  Did you end up
> networking the boxes together somehow?
> 
> > MECRISP MEETS MICROBOX M0 -  ARM Cortex
> > Well we are on the way: again DIL for easy starting - and fits into
> > the same TicTac Box.
> 
> Also nice, does it mean you got the 0.6" wide 28 pin LPC1114 into the
> Tictac box?!  I know they make a DIP8 version but it may have less memory.
> 
> Do you know about the Teensy-LC (LC stands for low cost)?
> 
>   http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensylc.html
> 
> From the page: "It features an ARM Cortex-M0+ processor at 48 MHz, 62K
> Flash, 8K RAM, 12 bit analog input & output, hardware Serial, SPI & I2C,
> USB, and a total of 27 I/O pins."

Paul, we had to concentrate on the builds, as this is what the activity for the scouts was,  and we went in the end for a random flash, which was quite impressive still as you can see in the video. 
But the software is ready and waiting - I will probably do a 5 x 5 demo when there is time. 

And the MSP430 Forth LED Wrist Watch is in the pipeline to finish off MSP430 as wearable.

YES, the DIL 1114 board JUST slides in, and with 2 AAA changed to AAAA it can be as well battery operated. There are many other package versions, all without a box, but the starting point again was - DIP first for anybody to replicate the project.
It has to be easily solderable.

Thanks for the link. There are many many ready made boards out there that could be used - the target here was as before - Solderless Breadboard as you can see - and then a handwired version with the chip in a socket. We will probably do a simple PCB as well later. 
Probably all of the additional software we will do for our project should run on this as well. Just had a look, different processors 
- but with the Olimex board it would be compatible, running now and prototyping area included

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43613

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-21 04:45 -0800
Message-ID	<9f49e11c-5d81-4b7f-ae79-85cd0d50074b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43612

On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 11:22:45 AM UTC, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 9:51:30 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> > JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > > http://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/234-eurocircuits-supports-iet-activity-at-peakcamp-201
> > 
> > Nice!  I wondered what had happened with this project.  Did you end up
> > networking the boxes together somehow?
> > 
> > > MECRISP MEETS MICROBOX M0 -  ARM Cortex
> > > Well we are on the way: again DIL for easy starting - and fits into
> > > the same TicTac Box.
> > 
> > Also nice, does it mean you got the 0.6" wide 28 pin LPC1114 into the
> > Tictac box?!  I know they make a DIP8 version but it may have less memory.
> > 
> > Do you know about the Teensy-LC (LC stands for low cost)?
> > 
> >   http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensylc.html
> > 
> > From the page: "It features an ARM Cortex-M0+ processor at 48 MHz, 62K
> > Flash, 8K RAM, 12 bit analog input & output, hardware Serial, SPI & I2C,
> > USB, and a total of 27 I/O pins."
> 
> Paul, we had to concentrate on the builds, as this is what the activity for the scouts was,  and we went in the end for a random flash, which was quite impressive still as you can see in the video. 
> But the software is ready and waiting - I will probably do a 5 x 5 demo when there is time. 
> 
> And the MSP430 Forth LED Wrist Watch is in the pipeline to finish off MSP430 as wearable.
> 
> YES, the DIL 1114 board JUST slides in, and with 2 AAA changed to AAAA it can be as well battery operated. There are many other package versions, all without a box, but the starting point again was - DIP first for anybody to replicate the project.
> It has to be easily solderable.
>  
> Thanks for the link. There are many many ready made boards out there that could be used - the target here was as before - Solderless Breadboard as you can see - and then a handwired version with the chip in a socket. We will probably do a simple PCB as well later. 
> Probably all of the additional software we will do for our project should run on this as well. Just had a look, different processors 
> - but with the Olimex board it would be compatible, running now and prototyping area included

... and for the non-German speaking rest of the world, we have now added a bit of translation - please click on (weiter) at the end of each message.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43666 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-11-22 21:49 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<87vb8ti7su.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to	#43612

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> Paul, we had to concentrate on the builds, as this is what the
> activity for the scouts was, and we went in the end for a random
> flash, which was quite impressive still as you can see in the video.

Quite understandable, there was an awful lot to do in a short time
and it's usual to have to leave some things out for next time.

> And the MSP430 Forth LED Wrist Watch is in the pipeline to finish off
> MSP430 as wearable.

Wow!  Which 430 part are you going to use?  I want one of those.  I have
a TI Chronos watch but it uses a white-on-black LCD display that's
almost unreadable, and the watch itself is huge and clunky.  So I
haven't done anything with it.

> YES, the DIL 1114 board JUST slides in, and with 2 AAA changed to AAAA
> it can be as well battery operated.

I see, hmm, it was really nice the way the '2553 board fit in with the
two AAA cells, which are much easier to find than AAAA's.  Though you
probably know that you can get AAAA's by taking apart 9V rectangular
alkaline batteries.

> DIP first for anybody to replicate the project.  It has to be easily
> solderable.

Sure, this makes sense.  I'm ok with soldering some SMT packages but
they don't go well on breadboards.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43679 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-23 10:02 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<84cd8dfd-a6a0-4b18-b738-340dad198546@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43666

On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 5:49:54 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > Paul, we had to concentrate on the builds, as this is what the
> > activity for the scouts was, and we went in the end for a random
> > flash, which was quite impressive still as you can see in the video.
> 
> Quite understandable, there was an awful lot to do in a short time
> and it's usual to have to leave some things out for next time.
> 
> > And the MSP430 Forth LED Wrist Watch is in the pipeline to finish off
> > MSP430 as wearable.
> 
> Wow!  Which 430 part are you going to use?  I want one of those.  I have
> a TI Chronos watch but it uses a white-on-black LCD display that's
> almost unreadable, and the watch itself is huge and clunky.  So I
> haven't done anything with it.
> 
> > YES, the DIL 1114 board JUST slides in, and with 2 AAA changed to AAAA
> > it can be as well battery operated.
> 
> I see, hmm, it was really nice the way the '2553 board fit in with the
> two AAA cells, which are much easier to find than AAAA's.  Though you
> probably know that you can get AAAA's by taking apart 9V rectangular
> alkaline batteries.
> 
> > DIP first for anybody to replicate the project.  It has to be easily
> > solderable.
> 
> Sure, this makes sense.  I'm ok with soldering some SMT packages but
> they don't go well on breadboards.

Well the MSP430G2553 - same part just small package. As the project grows you can probably see it on the www.forth-ev.de site where the other MicroBox is. HW design is nearly ready. Again fitting into the TicTac box - battery behind the board. 

Are there any contributors around for software?

The implementation  now is 12 LEDs for the hours - the active hour flashes, 5 min steps flash a bit longer, and more to come; e.g.  option egg timer. Just using one port 6 LEDs and another 6 in parallel, either switch on one chain or the other with the other two bits - static  and less resistors than charlieplexing. No 7 segment disply to avoid misunderstandings. 

Regarding ARM: DIL is just to start - TSSOP is solderable and we get the same size board as MSP. As it is flatter, we might get a second board on top   in the same box. We will see.

By the way regarding ARM  - Thursday 26 is HITEX - ARM Day in Warwick - UK, anybody going? I will definitely be there - as are some other Forthers I know who should identify themselves if they so wish.

There I hope to see the new BBC MicroBit in action - ARM based - and ready for Forth???

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43699 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-11-23 23:45 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<87d1uzj0xd.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to	#43679

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
>> > MSP430 Forth LED Wrist Watch is in the pipeline
>> Wow!  Which 430 part are you going to use?
> Well the MSP430G2553 - same part just small package.

Hrm, the '2553 is a little bit marginal for Forth--there are some other
small-package 430s with more memory--could you consider one?  One with
FRAM would be especially interesting.  This is one feature the 430 line
has that no ARM has at the moment that I know of.

How would communication with the watch work?  LEDCOMM sounds tempting.

> Are there any contributors around for software?

Well maybe ;-).

> Just using one port 6 LEDs and another 6 in parallel, either switch on
> one chain or the other with the other two bits ...

> There I hope to see the new BBC MicroBit in action - ARM based - and
> ready for Forth???

MicroBit sounds interesting and there are many similar small boards
around these days.

Non-ARM but this may be of interest:
https://www.tiny-circuits.com/tiny-lily-mini-processor.html

14mm diameter circular board, with Atmega328 (Arduino cpu) on it: 32k
flash, 2.5k ram and some eeprom.  Could be nice in something like a
watch.  AMForth should run on it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43711 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-24 12:15 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<55a29e26-6aaf-42c6-bb62-edfc545c8904@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43699

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 7:45:23 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> >> > MSP430 Forth LED Wrist Watch is in the pipeline
> >> Wow!  Which 430 part are you going to use?
> > Well the MSP430G2553 - same part just small package.
> 
> Hrm, the '2553 is a little bit marginal for Forth--there are some other
> small-package 430s with more memory--could you consider one?  One with
> FRAM would be especially interesting.  This is one feature the 430 line
> has that no ARM has at the moment that I know of.
> 
> How would communication with the watch work?  LEDCOMM sounds tempting.
> 
> > Are there any contributors around for software?
> 
> Well maybe ;-).
> 
> > Just using one port 6 LEDs and another 6 in parallel, either switch on
> > one chain or the other with the other two bits ...
> 
> > There I hope to see the new BBC MicroBit in action - ARM based - and
> > ready for Forth???
> 
> MicroBit sounds interesting and there are many similar small boards
> around these days.
> 
> Non-ARM but this may be of interest:
> https://www.tiny-circuits.com/tiny-lily-mini-processor.html
> 
> 14mm diameter circular board, with Atmega328 (Arduino cpu) on it: 32k
> flash, 2.5k ram and some eeprom.  Could be nice in something like a
> watch.  AMForth should run on it.

I remember when I talked about this project for the first time - and the answers I saw. I decided 2553 from the beginning and take it as far as possible. This is educational. If we run out of flash, brilliant - the best reason to explain how to do it all on the PC - or explain and use Umbilical - or get the 4k Ting eForth, many options and the same HW. Eforth only uses a quarter of the Flash, so 3x free for applications. There is always a better mousetrap. I have seen your suggestion, but  - new processor - new Forth, new documentation. 

Micro:Bit - have a closer look - Bluetooth included - not many offer this. And a million planned to give to schools in the UK for free - not many other boards can claim this coverage.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43776 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-11-25 11:56 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<871tbdhmye.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to	#43711

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> I decided 2553 from the beginning ... This is educational.

> or get the 4k Ting eForth

Wow, I didn't realize eForth was that small.  Is it usable?  Do you
happen to know the code size on an AVR?  

> There is always a better mousetrap. I have seen your suggestion, but -
> new processor - new Forth, new documentation.

Well, I had been suggesting a bigger 430, so the code would be mostly
the same, there would just be more space available.

> Micro:Bit - have a closer look - Bluetooth included - not many offer
> this. And a million planned to give to schools in the UK for free -
> not many other boards can claim this coverage.

There are lots of small Bluetooth boards now... rfduino.com has some
nice ones and here's one with a built-in coin battery holder and some
breadboard area, nice for hardware hacking:

  http://www.adafruit.com/products/2732

I agree with you that the MicroBit will be out there in enormous volume
and will probably be less expensive than the current stuff.

There are also a lot of very cheap ESP8266 wifi boards out there if you
want wireless but don't require Bluetooth.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43837 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-26 10:24 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<fe256db9-54da-4e3d-a151-c7e19bfda226@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43776

On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 7:56:58 PM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > I decided 2553 from the beginning ... This is educational.
> 
> > or get the 4k Ting eForth
> 
> Wow, I didn't realize eForth was that small.  Is it usable?  Do you
> happen to know the code size on an AVR?  
> 
> > There is always a better mousetrap. I have seen your suggestion, but -
> > new processor - new Forth, new documentation.
> 
> Well, I had been suggesting a bigger 430, so the code would be mostly
> the same, there would just be more space available.
> 
> > Micro:Bit - have a closer look - Bluetooth included - not many offer
> > this. And a million planned to give to schools in the UK for free -
> > not many other boards can claim this coverage.
> 
> There are lots of small Bluetooth boards now... rfduino.com has some
> nice ones and here's one with a built-in coin battery holder and some
> breadboard area, nice for hardware hacking:
> 
>   http://www.adafruit.com/products/2732
> 
> I agree with you that the MicroBit will be out there in enormous volume
> and will probably be less expensive than the current stuff.
> 
> There are also a lot of very cheap ESP8266 wifi boards out there if you
> want wireless but don't require Bluetooth.

eForth - Arduino should e similar, I only bought the 430 and the ARM -as they might be of interest for the educational side.

We have a limit of spare time, so 430 where it fits - but more im[ortant for the world is probably ARM. so this is our next level up - in DIL NXP 1114 otherwise not fixed yet, but same packaging - and best support from supplier.

Microbit will be for q1_2016 but you can hardly beat the 1 Million produced for the kids in the UK - and our Microbox planned as Intelligent IO for it.

Available other boards is not an issue for me - what can I get out for educational - if not, I will probably just do another own version as with the MSP430 which achieved exactly what we needed. 
And we have the software that fits and gets the beginner started.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43944 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-29 14:15 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?
Message-ID	<44424510-0481-441a-be34-23ea2a8e7899@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43837

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 6:24:24 PM UTC, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 7:56:58 PM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> > JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > > I decided 2553 from the beginning ... This is educational.
> > 
> > > or get the 4k Ting eForth
> > 
> > Wow, I didn't realize eForth was that small.  Is it usable?  Do you
> > happen to know the code size on an AVR?  
> > 
> > > There is always a better mousetrap. I have seen your suggestion, but -
> > > new processor - new Forth, new documentation.
> > 
> > Well, I had been suggesting a bigger 430, so the code would be mostly
> > the same, there would just be more space available.
> > 
> > > Micro:Bit - have a closer look - Bluetooth included - not many offer
> > > this. And a million planned to give to schools in the UK for free -
> > > not many other boards can claim this coverage.
> > 
> > There are lots of small Bluetooth boards now... rfduino.com has some
> > nice ones and here's one with a built-in coin battery holder and some
> > breadboard area, nice for hardware hacking:
> > 
> >   http://www.adafruit.com/products/2732
> > 
> > I agree with you that the MicroBit will be out there in enormous volume
> > and will probably be less expensive than the current stuff.
> > 
> > There are also a lot of very cheap ESP8266 wifi boards out there if you
> > want wireless but don't require Bluetooth.
> 
> eForth - Arduino should e similar, I only bought the 430 and the ARM -as they might be of interest for the educational side.
> 
> We have a limit of spare time, so 430 where it fits - but more im[ortant for the world is probably ARM. so this is our next level up - in DIL NXP 1114 otherwise not fixed yet, but same packaging - and best support from supplier.
> 
> Microbit will be for q1_2016 but you can hardly beat the 1 Million produced for the kids in the UK - and our Microbox planned as Intelligent IO for it.
> 
> Available other boards is not an issue for me - what can I get out for educational - if not, I will probably just do another own version as with the MSP430 which achieved exactly what we needed. 
> And we have the software that fits and gets the beginner started.

We just found at the ARM HITEX conference a new candidate 
INFINEON 1100   60 Flash USB chip on the little  board, about $6,  small - fits into the TicTac Box with batteries - brilliant - let's see when a first Forth will be available - see www.Forth-ev.de

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43946 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-11-29 14:32 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<87d1use8rx.fsf_-_@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to	#43944

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> We just found at the ARM HITEX conference a new candidate 
> INFINEON 1100 60 Flash USB chip on the little board, about $6, small -
> fits into the TicTac Box with batteries - brilliant - let's see when a
> first Forth will be available - see www.Forth-ev.de

At http://www.forth-ev.de/article.php/20151128125640974

Nice!  7.18 USD from digikey.com or 5.0 to 6.5 euro at some EU shops.
Small 32 mhz Cortex M0 board with 64k flash, 16k ram, UART and USB i/o.
Should fit nicely in the Tic Tac box and run Forth nicely.

I also like the (more expensive) Adafruit Feather M0 board since it has
more memory, some breadboard area and a built-in lipo charger:
  https://www.adafruit.com/products/2772
It looks slightly bigger than the Infineon board but might still fit
in the Tic Tac box using a flat lipo battery.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43966 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2015-11-30 03:36 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<fbc90054-18fb-420b-95d7-cc0ad0be2aa3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43946

On Sunday, November 29, 2015 at 10:32:55 PM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > We just found at the ARM HITEX conference a new candidate 
> > INFINEON 1100 60 Flash USB chip on the little board, about $6, small -
> > fits into the TicTac Box with batteries - brilliant - let's see when a
> > first Forth will be available - see www.Forth-ev.de
> 
> At http://www.forth-ev.de/article.php/20151128125640974
> 
> Nice!  7.18 USD from digikey.com or 5.0 to 6.5 euro at some EU shops.
> Small 32 mhz Cortex M0 board with 64k flash, 16k ram, UART and USB i/o.
> Should fit nicely in the Tic Tac box and run Forth nicely.
> 
> I also like the (more expensive) Adafruit Feather M0 board since it has
> more memory, some breadboard area and a built-in lipo charger:
>   https://www.adafruit.com/products/2772
> It looks slightly bigger than the Infineon board but might still fit
> in the Tic Tac box using a flat lipo battery.

Thanks, this is a great option I have to look into this in more detail. Battery included. Seems to fit and USB included.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43968 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de>
Date	2015-11-30 13:04 +0100
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<n3hdsg$kl6$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
In reply to	#43946

> I also like the (more expensive) Adafruit Feather M0 board since it has
> more memory, some breadboard area and a built-in lipo charger:
>   https://www.adafruit.com/products/2772

A very beautiful board !

It may be a bit complicated to port Mecrisp-Stellaris to this one, as the Atmel chip has a buffered flash write page size of 64 bytes. We shall find out if the hardware is fine with multiple writes to the same page. Fortunately, there is no ECC that might cause trouble.

Matthias

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43970 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-30 04:55 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<5a6d7122-2823-4ffd-a4a7-a0ae2c572957@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43968

luni, 30 noiembrie 2015, 14:02:25 UTC+2, Matthias Koch a scris:
> > I also like the (more expensive) Adafruit Feather M0 board since it has
> > more memory, some breadboard area and a built-in lipo charger:
> >   https://www.adafruit.com/products/2772
> 
> A very beautiful board !
> 
> It may be a bit complicated to port Mecrisp-Stellaris to this one, as the Atmel chip has a buffered flash write page size of 64 bytes. We shall find out if the hardware is fine with multiple writes to the same page. Fortunately, there is no ECC that might cause trouble.
> 
> Matthias

No way. You cannot write to a page if it is not completely erased. 
And there's more: if you want to erase a page you can't. You can erase
only 4 pages at a time (a block) which translates to a 256 bytes
working ram buffer for ANY flash writes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43972 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de>
Date	2015-11-30 14:32 +0100
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<n3hj1t$m2s$1@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>
In reply to	#43970

>> It may be a bit complicated to port Mecrisp-Stellaris to this one, as the Atmel chip has a buffered flash write page size of 64 bytes. We shall find out if the hardware is fine with multiple writes to the same page. Fortunately, there is no ECC that might cause trouble.
> 
> No way. You cannot write to a page if it is not completely erased. 
> And there's more: if you want to erase a page you can't. You can erase
> only 4 pages at a time (a block) which translates to a 256 bytes
> working ram buffer for ANY flash writes.

Yes, I have seen the four page = one row erase requirement, but this is fine.

So far, my compiler internally has a "separate 2 byte writes available" requirement, and I wrote collection layers to write 4 bytes or 16 bytes out at once, with according dictionary structure alignments. Much larger write blocks would become impractical...

The LPC1114FN28, my most uncomfortable nightmare so far in terms of memory, has a specified 256 byte block write, but its ECC is 16 bytes only and its hardware allows (multiple) writes to non-erased pages.

Did you actually tried to write again to an already partially written page in Atmel SAM21 ? This is an important hint and will decide if Mecrisp-Stellaris can go Atmel or not. One of my design guidelines is to never use erase cycles during compilation. For some supported chips erasable flash row size is larger than available RAM, so I had no choice but to threat flash memory as truly write once memory. On other chips, it helps increasing flash lifetime.

Matthias

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43973 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-30 07:24 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<f40288b5-c31e-478b-a338-2825a1555526@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43972

> Did you actually tried to write again to an already partially written page in Atmel SAM21 ? This is an important hint and will decide if Mecrisp-Stellaris can go Atmel or not. One of my design guidelines is to never use erase cycles during compilation. For some supported chips erasable flash row size is larger than available RAM, so I had no choice but to threat flash memory as truly write once memory. On other chips, it helps increasing flash lifetime.
>
> Matthias

I didn't try. Probably your best try is to read first the entire page content,
modify the FF's and then write it in a hope that the internal flash
controller will check by itself if the non-erased bytes are the same...

I made a very long time ago a flash forth like yours, but for avr chips
(mega8535 and mega128). Something like the amForth but a lot before it :)
I was forced to compile to a 256 bytes ram buffer and when I had something
to patch I needed to make an erase cycle. The point is that the D21 flash
seems to be pretty much the same technology with the mega ones...

My avr systems were pretty nice. They compiled somewhat optimized native code
(like colorforth) and borrowed some other colorforth ideas (IF THEN with no
ELSE, tail recursion and loops, two distinct dictionaries for non-immediate
and immediate words (FORTH and MACRO)...)
They were 32bit (my famous 32bit systems for 8bit microcontrollers :D
but the entire system was only 6K.

However, developing applications in such systems was a
nightmare - having to download source files over a serial link. It turned
out that I needed some PC utility for this and I gave up. I switched
to a cross-compiler (also generating native code) and my entire application
compiled to 7K (that fit in the 8K mega8535). Of course, without any
interpreter or compiler...

Now I'm working on an embedded forth but higher level. It will compile
from sources stored in the internal flash or an external spi flash.
It is higher level anyway because it has more "features" (like local
variables and quotations). It is a RAM only model, it will always compile
to ram (so I need some bigger ram than for a flash forth).
The only thing that maybe will resamble the old colorforth model will be
(in fact) an AHA model of a combined source/dictionary/tokenized code with
"compiling" at edit time and "loading" at compile time. But this will be a
future project, only if I will have time for implementing the embedded editor.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43978 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Date	2015-11-30 18:16 +0000
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<565c9271$0$23805$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to	#43973

Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> writes:

>> Did you actually tried to write again to an already partially written pag=
>e in Atmel SAM21 ? This is an important hint and will decide if Mecrisp-Ste=
>llaris can go Atmel or not. One of my design guidelines is to never use era=
>se cycles during compilation. For some supported chips erasable flash row s=
>ize is larger than available RAM, so I had no choice but to threat flash me=
>mory as truly write once memory. On other chips, it helps increasing flash =
>lifetime.
>>=20
>> Matthias

>I didn't try. Probably your best try is to read first the entire page conte=
>nt,
>modify the FF's and then write it in a hope that the internal flash
>controller will check by itself if the non-erased bytes are the same...

>I made a very long time ago a flash forth like yours, but for avr chips
>(mega8535 and mega128). Something like the amForth but a lot before it :)
>I was forced to compile to a 256 bytes ram buffer and when I had something
>to patch I needed to make an erase cycle. The point is that the D21 flash
>seems to be pretty much the same technology with the mega ones...

>My avr systems were pretty nice. They compiled somewhat optimized native co=
>de=20
>(like colorforth) and borrowed some other colorforth ideas (IF THEN with no
>ELSE, tail recursion and loops, two distinct dictionaries for non-immediate
>and immediate words (FORTH and MACRO)...)
>They were 32bit (my famous 32bit systems for 8bit microcontrollers :D
>but the entire system was only 6K.

>However, developing applications in such systems was a=20
>nightmare - having to download source files over a serial link. It turned
>out that I needed some PC utility for this and I gave up. I switched
>to a cross-compiler (also generating native code) and my entire application
>compiled to 7K (that fit in the 8K mega8535). Of course, without any=20
>interpreter or compiler...

>Now I'm working on an embedded forth but higher level. It will compile
>from sources stored in the internal flash or an external spi flash.
>It is higher level anyway because it has more "features" (like local
>variables and quotations). It is a RAM only model, it will always compile=
>=20
>to ram (so I need some bigger ram than for a flash forth).
>The only thing that maybe will resamble the old colorforth model will be=20
>(in fact) an AHA model of a combined source/dictionary/tokenized code with=
>=20
>"compiling" at edit time and "loading" at compile time. But this will be a=
>=20
>future project, only if I will have time for implementing the embedded edit=
>or.

For a forth on the mps430 where the difference between flash and RAM is
almost transparent in the sense that compilation is to flash, and very
few caveat's regarding variables in RAM see:

http://home.hccnet.nl/anij/nof/noforth.html

The documentation had been criticized for not providing sufficient cross
referencing. Not only is this remedied, but this description is now
in English, the lingua france of the computing world. Also it is pretty
comprehensive covering such subjects as
- how to install noforth on the board
- problems with terminal programs
- how to make a turnkey

I show a part of the FAQ here.

"
What do I need to get my program compiled in noForth?

noForth receives the text, translates it into code and compiles that
in flashrom. You need a simple communication program which is able to
send text to noForth on the chip. (Teraterm for Windows, Coolterm for
OS X, e4thcom for Linux, ... )
Baud rate 9600 - data 8 bit - parity none - stop 1 bit - flow control
none - transmit delay: 0 ms/char, 100 ms/line

Will compiled code stay in flashrom after a power off/on?

No, unless you have sent the command FREEZE.

Is it possible to erase 'frozen' code?

Yes. Executing a MARKER or a SHIELD erases the code that is compiled
after it.
"

A lot of effort has been put into accomodating different types of MPS430.
This is a free Forth, with the metaforth source available.

Traditionally the HCC Forth gg has provided its members with boards
to run their Forth's. A limited edition board for the 430 2553 (16K+512 )
has been distributed on the last meeting. (It is a kit, and you have
to solder some SMD stuff.)

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#43999 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-30 22:42 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<baefc7a8-e36c-4228-8bca-f1b57daa5e97@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#43978

> Baud rate 9600 - data 8 bit - parity none - stop 1 bit - flow control
> none - transmit delay: 0 ms/char, 100 ms/line
> 
That 100ms per line is a killer. That's why I said you need some PC
utility to download the raw text... Something that takes care of the
system "ok" response, stripping of comments waould be also nice...
I think such utils even exists now, but I lost my interest on this 
long time ago.
In my modern system as I said I will compile from internal files.
The files will get there by either a tcp/ip protocol (I have tftp
working right now but an NFS will be wonderfull) or an XMODEM protocol
or ZMODEM for a mere serial line.
Of course, nothing will prevent a user to download the raw text in the 
old style, but this will be just a "possibility".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#44001 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2015-11-30 23:34 -0800
Subject	Re: Forth News from Europe ...
Message-ID	<87fuzmd3lq.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to	#43999

Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> writes:
>> Baud rate 9600 - data 8 bit - parity none - stop 1 bit - flow control
>> none - transmit delay: 0 ms/char, 100 ms/line
> That 100ms per line is a killer. That's why I said you need some PC
> utility to download the raw text... 

The 100ms delay might be to make sure the target has enough time to
process the line.  A zmodem-like protocol (sliding window) might not be
practical with so little memory on the target.  But yeah, some kind of
bidirectional protocol that eliminated the delay would be a win.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 1 of 3 [1] 2 3 Next page →

csiph-web

Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

Contents

#43610 — Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43611

#43612

#43613

#43666 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43679 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43699 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43711 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43776 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43837 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43944 — Re: Forth News from Europe - Video - Olimex - ARM - VFX - Mecrisp and the question: Which other Forths - ANS or not - will run on this NXP LPC1114 platform?

#43946 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#43966 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#43968 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#43970 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#43972 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#43973 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#43978 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#43999 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...

#44001 — Re: Forth News from Europe ...