Groups > comp.lang.forth > #46543 > unrolled thread

BBC MicroBit has arrived - which Forth in Python is recommended for now?

Started by	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
First post	2016-04-06 00:14 -0700
Last post	2016-08-12 11:11 -0400
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#46573

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-07 03:27 -0700
Message-ID	<06084f4f-eb5d-4a99-b0ba-238eeb70dcbb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46572

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:30:00 AM UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 15:55:32 UTC+1, JUERGEN  wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 2:10:31 PM UTC+1, Mark Wills wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:32:26 UTC+1, JUERGEN  wrote:
> >> > > On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 10:13:42 AM UTC+1, Martin Nicholas wro=
> >te:
> >> > > > On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
> >> > > > JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> >> > > >=20
> >> > > > > A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available. Un=
> >til
> >> > > > > a real Forth is running, and as Python is a supported language - =
> >is
> >> > > > > there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is =
> >not
> >> > > > > the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control t=
> >he
> >> > > > > IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit IN=
> >PUT
> >> > > > > value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ... Any help
> >> > > > > appreciated. http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/lates=
> >t/.
> >> > > > > Picture and video you can find at
> >> > > > > https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH/?fref=3Dts. Has
> >> > > > > anybody re-written JonesForth in Python?
> >> > > >=20
> >> > > > It's a 32-bit ARM Cortex Processor (Cortex M0):
> >> > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/microbit/specs
> >> > > > so a FORTH for this shouldn't be too elusive.
> >> > > >=20
> >> > > > --=20
> >> > > > Regards,
> >> > > >=20
> >> > > > Martin Nicholas.
> >> > > >=20
> >> > > > E-mail: reply-201604@mgn.org.uk
> >> > >=20
> >> > > There might be a misunderstanding: There will be Forths running on th=
> >e MicroBit - BUT this means that the original software has to be replaced  =
> >or at least partially. The idea here was to use the existing Python Program=
> >ming Environment to have a small Forth running as an Application - leaving =
> >everything else as is.
> >> >=20
> >> > There's no point. Python is *insanely* easy, and all the libraries
> >> > for handling the hardware will already be there. Might as well just
> >> > use them and enjoy yourself.
> >>=20
> >> I do disagree - either via the PC or the Mobile or a cheap display and a =
> >keyboard. I want to have Forth on the MicroBit - if this is not for you - f=
> >ine.
> 
> >I'm all for a Forth on the MicroBit - why not? I just meant there's
> >no point in getting a Forth-in-python running just to control the
> >I/Os and LEDs as you mentioned in your first post. Might as well just
> >just use Python for that and have some fun!
> 
> >But getting a Forth on it? Sure, why not. Then we can have some
> >proper fun ;-)
> 
> The first thing to know is whether the Forth -compiler must be
> an ELF format or (MS) .com format. The other possibility is that the whole
> Microbit is in fact one single turnkey program, with a built in
> interpreter for Python.
> It took me more than 5 minutes to not find that information on the
> Microbit website, which warrants the conclusion that it is a
> programmer-hostile environment.
> 
> An environment like ARM-android accepts ELF files. There is a gforth
> ELF-arm, and shortly there will be ciforth-ELF-arm. (The last hurdle
> was compiling turnkeys to executable files.)
> 
> Groetjes Albert
> -- 
> Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
> Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
> albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

Others have found it difficult as well to find information. 
What we all have to realize is the fact that this website is mostly for children;
but as this is a interesting product - there will be more as soon as people get their hands on it. Just remember, this is not a product sold on the open market yet. I am just lucky to have access - and know Forth a bit and would like to have Forth run on this hardware.

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#46579

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-07 12:11 -0400
Message-ID	<ne60kj$d6u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#46573

On 4/7/2016 6:27 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
>
> Others have found it difficult as well to find information.
> What we all have to realize is the fact that this website is mostly for children;
> but as this is a interesting product - there will be more as soon as people get their hands on it. Just remember, this is not a product sold on the open market yet. I am just lucky to have access - and know Forth a bit and would like to have Forth run on this hardware.

Another issue is that when the Microbit *is* brought to market no one 
knows what price it will have.  If they charge $25 for it, I think it 
will *not* be well received.

It looks to me like it will be some significant time before they are 
available to the public anyway... unless someone produces a clone board.

-- 

Rick

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#46575

From	Gerard Sontag <gerardsontag@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-07 05:39 -0700
Message-ID	<8d05ca83-39fe-47b0-b25a-950116778365@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46572

Le jeudi 7 avril 2016 11:30:00 UTC+2, Albert van der Horst a écrit :
> .........
> It took me more than 5 minutes to not find that information on the
> Microbit website, which warrants the conclusion that it is a
> programmer-hostile environment.
>........
> 
> Groetjes Albert
> -- 
> Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
> Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
> albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

Hello,
Not sure what you really mean but...
You can use the mbed environment to program it: https://developer.mbed.org/platforms/Microbit/
Keil uvision lite (with 32k limit). Yes it's free of charge not free software
Gcc, and surely a lot of other tools
As soon as you can get a .bin file you can flash it using the drag & drop facility offered by the CMIS-DAP thru the Freescale KL26Z

Gérard

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#46578

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-07 11:45 -0400
Message-ID	<ne5v4q$6qh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#46572

On 4/7/2016 5:29 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>
> Groetjes Albert

Lol, shows how truly observant I am.   I'm not very good with names, but 
I do recognize Albert van der Horst.  However, I never noticed that your 
messages were signed Groetjes Albert.  When I read that I thought it was 
the name of someone else...  I just googled groetjes and found its 
meaning... lol

I may be slow, but I get there eventually.  So be patient with me.  :)

-- 

Rick

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#46603

From	hughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date	2016-04-09 00:37 -0700
Message-ID	<28e2b95a-be93-4b0f-b309-5a83bca12a6d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46571

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 1:27:25 AM UTC-7, Mark Wills wrote:
> I'm all for a Forth on the MicroBit - why not? I just meant there's
> no point in getting a Forth-in-python running just to control the
> I/Os and LEDs as you mentioned in your first post. Might as well just
> just use Python for that and have some fun!
> 
> But getting a Forth on it? Sure, why not. Then we can have some
> proper fun ;-)

It would be pointless to write a Forth interpreter in Python, which is why I compared Juergen's idea to Passaniti's Forth in Perl, as Passaniti was the Prince of Pointless. Obviously, Forth should be written in assembly-language!

At Testra I asked why they never made an experimenters' board for the MiniForth/RACE and I was told: "Hobbyists require too much support, and they don't have any money."

This MicroBit is intended to be given away for free to junior-high-school kids. They provided Python rather than Forth because they wanted to minimize the amount of support that they needed to provide. Python is actually a terrible choice for a micro-controller --- Python was designed to be a scripting language on desktop-computers --- it is only provided on the MicroBit to be a safe environment.

It would be pretty humorous though if everybody who got the free board ignored Python and used Forth instead --- if they do this, then they won't get any support --- but they might learn something!

Education is theoretically supposed to be about figuring things out for yourself, although in practice the teachers will do everything in their power to prevent this from happening --- the parents won't be enthusiastic about this either, as they will point out that there are jobs available in Python but not in Forth --- but kids traditionally ignore their teachers and parents and just do whatever seems to be the most fun, which in this case would be Forth.

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#46565

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-06 14:47 -0400
Message-ID	<ne3leg$jlh$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#46545

On 4/6/2016 5:13 AM, Martin Nicholas wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available. Until
>> a real Forth is running, and as Python is a supported language - is
>> there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is not
>> the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control the
>> IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit INPUT
>> value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ... Any help
>> appreciated. http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/latest/.
>> Picture and video you can find at
>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH/?fref=ts. Has
>> anybody re-written JonesForth in Python?
>
> It's a 32-bit ARM Cortex Processor (Cortex M0):
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/microbit/specs
> so a FORTH for this shouldn't be too elusive.

Mecrisp is easy (relatively speaking) to port to any ARM.

-- 

Rick

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#46547

From	hughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date	2016-04-06 03:10 -0700
Message-ID	<6ba7af16-0edf-4cd9-9d78-e0f7648c96eb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46543

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 12:14:43 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
> A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available. 

Well, I read up on that BBC MicroBit computer. I think that it is pretty cool that every junior-high-school student in England is given a computer for free. Nothing like that is done in America --- in America the focus is primarily on the government providing money to senior citizens (Social Security, Medicare, etc.), and also to anybody who claims to be a victim (welfare, section-8 housing, etc.) --- but very little is done for young people.

BTW: How did you manage to get one on your desk? My understanding is that they aren't sold to the public, but are only given to the school kids.

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#46549

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-06 03:32 -0700
Message-ID	<402ce193-855d-46b1-96b1-b94067432254@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46547

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 11:10:30 AM UTC+1, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 12:14:43 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
> > A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available. 
> 
> Well, I read up on that BBC MicroBit computer. I think that it is pretty cool that every junior-high-school student in England is given a computer for free. Nothing like that is done in America --- in America the focus is primarily on the government providing money to senior citizens (Social Security, Medicare, etc.), and also to anybody who claims to be a victim (welfare, section-8 housing, etc.) --- but very little is done for young people.
> 
> BTW: How did you manage to get one on your desk? My understanding is that they aren't sold to the public, but are only given to the school kids.

In my spare time I work as STEM Ambassador in educational projects - which came as part of the MSP430 MicroBox scouts project last year. You cannot buy them yet, and I do not own it, they are on loan only for project preparation - so I am a Loaner - not an Owner.   ... and having a good relationship with the people who have access helped as well.

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#46550

From	Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
Date	2016-04-06 10:48 +0000
Message-ID	<5704e987$0$5874$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to	#46547

hughaguilar96@gmail.com writes:

>On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 12:14:43 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
>> A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available.=20

>Well, I read up on that BBC MicroBit computer. I think that it is pretty co=
>ol that every junior-high-school student in England is given a computer for=
> free. Nothing like that is done in America --- in America the focus is pri=
>marily on the government providing money to senior citizens (Social Securit=
>y, Medicare, etc.), and also to anybody who claims to be a victim (welfare,=
> section-8 housing, etc.) --- but very little is done for young people.

>BTW: How did you manage to get one on your desk? My understanding is that t=
>hey aren't sold to the public, but are only given to the school kids.

I see the website. -- great ... blabla .. magnificent .. Lots about hardware.
Nothing about software, which is the heart of the machine.

I see a conspiracy to get kids away from free open source software.

The best way for a kid to get involved, is to lay hands on a second hand
computer and install linux on it, or play with a discarded ("too
old") cell phone with android.

It is probably cheaper then the Microbit, too.

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#46551

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-06 04:22 -0700
Message-ID	<46dc7e30-be28-4c60-aa0a-14bd22cc6791@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46550

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 11:48:41 AM UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> hughaguilar96@gmail.com writes:
> 
> >On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 12:14:43 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
> >> A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available.=20
> 
> >Well, I read up on that BBC MicroBit computer. I think that it is pretty co=
> >ol that every junior-high-school student in England is given a computer for=
> > free. Nothing like that is done in America --- in America the focus is pri=
> >marily on the government providing money to senior citizens (Social Securit=
> >y, Medicare, etc.), and also to anybody who claims to be a victim (welfare,=
> > section-8 housing, etc.) --- but very little is done for young people.
> 
> >BTW: How did you manage to get one on your desk? My understanding is that t=
> >hey aren't sold to the public, but are only given to the school kids.
> 
> I see the website. -- great ... blabla .. magnificent .. Lots about hardware.
> Nothing about software, which is the heart of the machine.
> 
> I see a conspiracy to get kids away from free open source software.
> 
> The best way for a kid to get involved, is to lay hands on a second hand
> computer and install linux on it, or play with a discarded ("too
> old") cell phone with android.
> 
> It is probably cheaper then the Microbit, too.
> 
> Groetjes Albert
> -- 
> Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
> Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
> albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

You can Not-Like it, but I rather live with the facts: 1 000 000 will be delivered free of charge in the UK to children. This is a basis for Forth. I rather go with the flow. 
I do agree with the compilation via Internet is not a good idea and had issues already - but an on-board Forth Application will be free, independant of the internet and interactive.

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#46562

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-06 08:32 -0700
Message-ID	<dc387f09-7c80-4100-a197-c80e6d27ad08@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46550

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 11:48:41 AM UTC+1, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> hughaguilar96@gmail.com writes:
> 
> >On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 12:14:43 AM UTC-7, JUERGEN wrote:
> >> A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available.=20
> 
> >Well, I read up on that BBC MicroBit computer. I think that it is pretty co=
> >ol that every junior-high-school student in England is given a computer for=
> > free. Nothing like that is done in America --- in America the focus is pri=
> >marily on the government providing money to senior citizens (Social Securit=
> >y, Medicare, etc.), and also to anybody who claims to be a victim (welfare,=
> > section-8 housing, etc.) --- but very little is done for young people.
> 
> >BTW: How did you manage to get one on your desk? My understanding is that t=
> >hey aren't sold to the public, but are only given to the school kids.
> 
> I see the website. -- great ... blabla .. magnificent .. Lots about hardware.
> Nothing about software, which is the heart of the machine.
> 
> I see a conspiracy to get kids away from free open source software.
> 
> The best way for a kid to get involved, is to lay hands on a second hand
> computer and install linux on it, or play with a discarded ("too
> old") cell phone with android.
> 
> It is probably cheaper then the Microbit, too.
> 
> Groetjes Albert
> -- 
> Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
> Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
> albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

Software  is at the entry point https://www.microbit.co.uk/  SOFTWARE and different languages, and soory to be a bit sarcastic - you are probably completely right, and we all have our Forth Computers on our desk running Forth instructions rather than machine code and this running on a 2048 core Greenarray chip - we wish. Learning starts at 0 in electronics - forget about Linux for beginners - or was this the first thing your children learnt? Please share your positive experience.

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#46564

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-04-06 11:44 -0700
Message-ID	<87mvp6poft.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to	#46543

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> is there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is
> not the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control
> the IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit
> INPUT value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ...  

This doesn't sound so easy unless you're willing to hack a little bit of
Python code.  You can find "Forth in Python" with a web search (Julian
did that), but:

1) the Microbit uses a very small (but nice) alternative Python
implementation called MicroPython while most existing Python programs
use the full size Python (CPython).  MicroPython is a mostly-compatible
version of the language but it's missing a lot of the libraries CPython
comes with, and that might make it hard to get Forth working.

2) You want to control the Microbit hardware from Forth, and any Forth
in Python intended for PC's isn't likely to have those Microbit-specific
commands.  So you'll have to add them.

3) The Microbit has so little memory that it's surprising they got even
MicroPython to run on it at all.  MicroPython originally was released
for a chip with around 192kb of ram.  The Microbit might only be able to
run quite small Python programs, not a full featured Forth interpreter.

Why not take the opportunity to play with Python a little?  Then you'll
have a better understanding of how the two approaches compare.

The quickest way to get Forth running on the Microbit might be using
one of the many small Forths based on C, since I think the Microbit 
setup has a C compiler.

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#46566

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-06 12:43 -0700
Message-ID	<9566c9ea-2aaa-4874-93ff-92dc1c0e838b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46564

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 7:44:27 PM UTC+1, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > is there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is
> > not the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control
> > the IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit
> > INPUT value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ...  
> 
> This doesn't sound so easy unless you're willing to hack a little bit of
> Python code.  You can find "Forth in Python" with a web search (Julian
> did that), but:
> 
> 1) the Microbit uses a very small (but nice) alternative Python
> implementation called MicroPython while most existing Python programs
> use the full size Python (CPython).  MicroPython is a mostly-compatible
> version of the language but it's missing a lot of the libraries CPython
> comes with, and that might make it hard to get Forth working.
> 
> 2) You want to control the Microbit hardware from Forth, and any Forth
> in Python intended for PC's isn't likely to have those Microbit-specific
> commands.  So you'll have to add them.
> 
> 3) The Microbit has so little memory that it's surprising they got even
> MicroPython to run on it at all.  MicroPython originally was released
> for a chip with around 192kb of ram.  The Microbit might only be able to
> run quite small Python programs, not a full featured Forth interpreter.
> 
> Why not take the opportunity to play with Python a little?  Then you'll
> have a better understanding of how the two approaches compare.
> 
> The quickest way to get Forth running on the Microbit might be using
> one of the many small Forths based on C, since I think the Microbit 
> setup has a C compiler.

It seems the idea was good - but the hardware is against it

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#46569

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-07 03:31 -0400
Message-ID	<ne526i$orv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#46564

On 4/6/2016 2:44 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
>> is there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is
>> not the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control
>> the IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit
>> INPUT value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ...
>
> This doesn't sound so easy unless you're willing to hack a little bit of
> Python code.  You can find "Forth in Python" with a web search (Julian
> did that), but:
>
> 1) the Microbit uses a very small (but nice) alternative Python
> implementation called MicroPython while most existing Python programs
> use the full size Python (CPython).  MicroPython is a mostly-compatible
> version of the language but it's missing a lot of the libraries CPython
> comes with, and that might make it hard to get Forth working.
>
> 2) You want to control the Microbit hardware from Forth, and any Forth
> in Python intended for PC's isn't likely to have those Microbit-specific
> commands.  So you'll have to add them.
>
> 3) The Microbit has so little memory that it's surprising they got even
> MicroPython to run on it at all.  MicroPython originally was released
> for a chip with around 192kb of ram.  The Microbit might only be able to
> run quite small Python programs, not a full featured Forth interpreter.
>
> Why not take the opportunity to play with Python a little?  Then you'll
> have a better understanding of how the two approaches compare.
>
> The quickest way to get Forth running on the Microbit might be using
> one of the many small Forths based on C, since I think the Microbit
> setup has a C compiler.

The Microbit has a standard ARM MCU and a number of standard peripherals 
which will have some sort of library code available to drive them. 
There is no reason to think a special library or development system is 
needed to program this board.  Any compiler for any language that 
supports the MCU will work on the Microbit.

-- 

Rick

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#46570

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-04-07 00:40 -0700
Message-ID	<87egahq337.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to	#46569

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> The Microbit has a standard ARM MCU and a number of standard
> peripherals which will have some sort of library code available to
> drive them. There is no reason to think a special library or
> development system is needed to program this board.  Any compiler for
> any language that supports the MCU will work on the Microbit.

There are some GPIO pins that control the LEDs (there's a 5x5 LED
array), but if you want to do stuff like display scrolling text messages
on them, you need Microbit-specific libraries or else you have to write
a lot of code yourself.  The MicroBit's Python implementation has some
convenient library functions for that and if you wanted to port an
existing Python Forth to the MicroBit Python, you'd want to do some
hacking to expose those functions to the Forth user.

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#46567

From	visualforth@rocketmail.com
Date	2016-04-06 18:16 -0700
Message-ID	<0e4ead10-f77c-4ca4-b882-42313c482e96@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46543

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:14:43 AM UTC-4, JUERGEN wrote:
> A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available. Until a real Forth is running, and as Python is a supported language - is there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is not the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control the IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit INPUT value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ...
> Any help appreciated. http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/latest/.
> Picture and video you can find at https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH/?fref=ts. Has anybody re-written JonesForth in Python?

Why using Python to create Forth?

The MicroBIT covers Touch Develop, Python and JavaScript, so why not Forth?

The whole thing looks like a closed community, but there is an installation section which needs git and yotta, so I guess that Forth will be installable, to: http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/latest/devguide/installation.html 

By the way, there is a Block Editor available:
https://www.microbit.co.uk/getting-started/block-editor
Courtesy of Microsoft.
Just kidding.

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#46677

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-18 09:49 -0700
Message-ID	<6dcfff29-092b-42be-96e6-8510cd43665d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46567

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:17:00 AM UTC+1, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:14:43 AM UTC-4, JUERGEN wrote:
> > A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available. Until a real Forth is running, and as Python is a supported language - is there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is not the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control the IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit INPUT value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ...
> > Any help appreciated. http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/latest/.
> > Picture and video you can find at https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH/?fref=ts. Has anybody re-written JonesForth in Python?
> 
> Why using Python to create Forth?
> 
> The MicroBIT covers Touch Develop, Python and JavaScript, so why not Forth?
> 
> The whole thing looks like a closed community, but there is an installation section which needs git and yotta, so I guess that Forth will be installable, to: http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/latest/devguide/installation.html 
> 
> By the way, there is a Block Editor available:
> https://www.microbit.co.uk/getting-started/block-editor
> Courtesy of Microsoft.
> Just kidding.

There are lot of programmers in Python now 
- just saying Forth is best has unfortunately not worked until now. 
- So a way would be to give them a Forth implementation in the language they know , where they can look at the source code they can understand to run on the MicroBit; or another device if the code is available.
- and native Forth versions will follow when ready. 
But then they would have to start from scratch again. Would they ?

This is NOT a closed community - it is made for school children and the target is 1 million of them - not a product you can buy now. so a nice and large target community for Forth.
I assume within 6 months MicroBits will appear on eBay.

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#46679

From	Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-18 13:20 -0700
Message-ID	<7fc17e48-1d2c-43c8-aace-bcba3285e70c@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#46677

On Monday, 18 April 2016 17:49:43 UTC+1, JUERGEN  wrote:
> On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 2:17:00 AM UTC+1, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:14:43 AM UTC-4, JUERGEN wrote:
> > > A MicroBit has arrived on my desk, but no Forth yet available. Until a real Forth is running, and as Python is a supported language - is there a Forth out there in Python I could load and run? Speed is not the issue for now nor is completeness. I mainly want to control the IOs, and the 25 LEDs are just enough to display ok, or a 4 Bit INPUT value, a 4 bit OUTPUT value - and 3 levels of Stack ...
> > > Any help appreciated. http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/latest/.
> > > Picture and video you can find at https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH/?fref=ts. Has anybody re-written JonesForth in Python?
> > 
> > Why using Python to create Forth?
> > 
> > The MicroBIT covers Touch Develop, Python and JavaScript, so why not Forth?
> > 
> > The whole thing looks like a closed community, but there is an installation section which needs git and yotta, so I guess that Forth will be installable, to: http://microbit-micropython.readthedocs.org/en/latest/devguide/installation.html 
> > 
> > By the way, there is a Block Editor available:
> > https://www.microbit.co.uk/getting-started/block-editor
> > Courtesy of Microsoft.
> > Just kidding.
> 
> There are lot of programmers in Python now 
> - just saying Forth is best has unfortunately not worked until now. 
> - So a way would be to give them a Forth implementation in the language they know , where they can look at the source code they can understand to run on the MicroBit; or another device if the code is available.
> - and native Forth versions will follow when ready. 
> But then they would have to start from scratch again. Would they ?
> 
> This is NOT a closed community - it is made for school children and the target is 1 million of them - not a product you can buy now. so a nice and large target community for Forth.
> I assume within 6 months MicroBits will appear on eBay.

Forth isn't the best, unfortunately. I'm a great a fan of Forth, but
its hey-day is long behind it.

It's a good language to learn in order to learn about the hardware
that your code is running on, but there's not even a standard, simple
way to open a serial port in Forth, and the serial port has been 
obsolete for, what ten, maybe fifteen years?

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#46684

From	Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date	2016-04-19 04:04 -0500
Message-ID	<JPWdnXVwPrcHaYjKnZ2dnUU78WednZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to	#46679

Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It's a good language to learn in order to learn about the hardware
> that your code is running on, but there's not even a standard,
> simple way to open a serial port in Forth, and the serial port has
> been obsolete for, what ten, maybe fifteen years?

In what language is there a standard way to open a serial port?

Andrew.

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#46685

From	Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-19 12:11 +0300
Message-ID	<nf4sh3$etp$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#46684


On 19/04/2016 12:04, Andrew Haley wrote:
> Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's a good language to learn in order to learn about the hardware
>> that your code is running on, but there's not even a standard,
>> simple way to open a serial port in Forth, and the serial port has
>> been obsolete for, what ten, maybe fifteen years?
> 
> In what language is there a standard way to open a serial port?

There is in 8th:  sio:open

You don't even need to know the name of the port.  You could just do
this to open the first port:

  sio:enum a:shift sio:open

(assuming that there is at least one port)

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csiph-web

BBC MicroBit has arrived - which Forth in Python is recommended for now?

Contents

#46573

#46579

#46575

#46578

#46603

#46565

#46547

#46549

#46550

#46551

#46562

#46564

#46566

#46569

#46570

#46567

#46677

#46679

#46684

#46685