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  ForthOS endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-06-08 17:38 -0700
    Re: ForthOS Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-06-08 22:14 -0400
      Re: ForthOS Gerard Sontag <gerardsontag@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 05:36 -0700
        Re: ForthOS rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 20:23 -0400
          Re: ForthOS Gerard Sontag <gerardsontag@gmail.com> - 2016-06-10 05:37 -0700
      Re: ForthOS endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-06-10 08:15 -0700
      Re: ForthOS endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-06-10 08:17 -0700
      Re: ForthOS endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-06-10 08:21 -0700
    Re: ForthOS Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-06-09 04:50 -0700
      Re: ForthOS endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-06-10 08:15 -0700
        Re: ForthOS Bruce Axtens <bruce.axtens@gmail.com> - 2016-06-24 16:21 +0800
          Re: ForthOS rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-06-24 11:39 -0400
            Re: ForthOS "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-06-24 22:34 +0200
              Re: ForthOS Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-06-24 15:01 -0700
                Re: ForthOS Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-25 05:09 -0500
                  Re: ForthOS Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-06-25 13:59 -0700
                    Re: ForthOS Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-06-26 12:09 -0500
                  Re: ForthOS hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 17:52 -0700
            Re: ForthOS endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 08:52 -0700
          Re: ForthOS endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 07:59 -0700

#47970 — ForthOS

can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?

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#47972

On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:

> can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?

No, gavino.  How many years do we have to answer this question? ...

God specifically prohibited the use of Forth on a PC.  The desire to
use Forth on a PC violates the Tenth Commandment: "Thou shalt not
covet."  So, anyone who does is a sinner and is going to Hell.  ;-)


Rod Pemberton

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#47980

Le jeudi 9 juin 2016 04:13:40 UTC+2, Rod Pemberton a écrit :
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
> endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
> 
> No, gavino.  How many years do we have to answer this question? ...
> 
> God specifically prohibited the use of Forth on a PC.  The desire to
> use Forth on a PC violates the Tenth Commandment: "Thou shalt not
> covet."  So, anyone who does is a sinner and is going to Hell.  ;-)
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

! Excellent !

Amicalement

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#47992

On 6/9/2016 8:36 AM, Gerard Sontag wrote:
> Le jeudi 9 juin 2016 04:13:40 UTC+2, Rod Pemberton a écrit :
>> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
>> endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
>>
>> No, gavino.  How many years do we have to answer this question? ...
>>
>> God specifically prohibited the use of Forth on a PC.  The desire to
>> use Forth on a PC violates the Tenth Commandment: "Thou shalt not
>> covet."  So, anyone who does is a sinner and is going to Hell.  ;-)
>>
>>
>> Rod Pemberton
>
> ! Excellent !

But then we are all sinners, born into sin.  The only way to cleanse 
thyself is to learn the way of the Forth.

-- 

Rick C

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#47995

Le vendredi 10 juin 2016 02:23:41 UTC+2, rickman a écrit :
> On 6/9/2016 8:36 AM, Gerard Sontag wrote:
> > Le jeudi 9 juin 2016 04:13:40 UTC+2, Rod Pemberton a écrit :
> >> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
> >> endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
> >>
> >> No, gavino.  How many years do we have to answer this question? ...
> >>
> >> God specifically prohibited the use of Forth on a PC.  The desire to
> >> use Forth on a PC violates the Tenth Commandment: "Thou shalt not
> >> covet."  So, anyone who does is a sinner and is going to Hell.  ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >> Rod Pemberton
> >
> > ! Excellent !
> 
> But then we are all sinners, born into sin.  The only way to cleanse 
> thyself is to learn the way of the Forth.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C

Yes and as soon as Adam and Eve where in the garden of languages, Eve put a keyboard in the hands of Adam to have a try with Forth and then he gets the knowledge. 

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#47999

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 10:13:40 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
> endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
> 
> No, gavino.  How many years do we have to answer this question? ...
> 
> God specifically prohibited the use of Forth on a PC.  The desire to
> use Forth on a PC violates the Tenth Commandment: "Thou shalt not
> covet."  So, anyone who does is a sinner and is going to Hell.  ;-)
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

rod calm down, man TRump is guna win, just relax

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#48001

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 10:13:40 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
> endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
> 
> No, gavino.  How many years do we have to answer this question? ...
> 
> God specifically prohibited the use of Forth on a PC.  The desire to
> use Forth on a PC violates the Tenth Commandment: "Thou shalt not
> covet."  So, anyone who does is a sinner and is going to Hell.  ;-)
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

freebsd openbsd   why not forthos? fos? 

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#48002

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 10:13:40 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 17:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
> endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
> 
> No, gavino.  How many years do we have to answer this question? ...
> 
> God specifically prohibited the use of Forth on a PC.  The desire to
> use Forth on a PC violates the Tenth Commandment: "Thou shalt not
> covet."  So, anyone who does is a sinner and is going to Hell.  ;-)
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

which god? I am polytheistic

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#47979

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:38:20 PM UTC-4, endlessboo...@gmail.com wrote:
> can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
Can it be done? Of course. Has anyone done it yet? To my knowledge, no.

Go for it.

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#48000

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 7:50:30 AM UTC-4, Chris Curl wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:38:20 PM UTC-4, endlessboo...@gmail.com wrote:
> > can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
> Can it be done? Of course. Has anyone done it yet? To my knowledge, no.
> 
> Go for it.

what would the the hardest part?

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#48478

On 10/06/2016 11:15 PM, endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 7:50:30 AM UTC-4, Chris Curl wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:38:20 PM UTC-4, endlessboo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
>> Can it be done? Of course. Has anyone done it yet? To my knowledge, no.
>>
>> Go for it.
>
> what would the the hardest part?
>
Probably the initial pencil on paper design. With forth being bottom-up, 
it can be hard to see all the words fitting with other words fitting 
with other words until one reaches the top word.

I fancy it'll take a few weeks, a box or two of pencils and a ream of A4.

Bruce/bugmagnet

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#48481

On 6/24/2016 4:21 AM, Bruce Axtens wrote:
> On 10/06/2016 11:15 PM, endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 7:50:30 AM UTC-4, Chris Curl wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:38:20 PM UTC-4,
>>> endlessboo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
>>> Can it be done? Of course. Has anyone done it yet? To my knowledge, no.
>>>
>>> Go for it.
>>
>> what would the the hardest part?
>>
> Probably the initial pencil on paper design. With forth being bottom-up,
> it can be hard to see all the words fitting with other words fitting
> with other words until one reaches the top word.
>
> I fancy it'll take a few weeks, a box or two of pencils and a ream of A4.

What is wrong with people that they keep saying Forth does not support 
anything other than bottom up design???  That is silly.

-- 

Rick C

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#48485

On 6/24/16 5:39 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 6/24/2016 4:21 AM, Bruce Axtens wrote:
>> On 10/06/2016 11:15 PM, endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 7:50:30 AM UTC-4, Chris Curl wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:38:20 PM UTC-4,
>>>> endlessboo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> can this work on a pc and let me surf web yet?
>>>> Can it be done? Of course. Has anyone done it yet? To my knowledge, no.
>>>>
>>>> Go for it.
>>>
>>> what would the the hardest part?
>>>
>> Probably the initial pencil on paper design. With forth being bottom-up,
>> it can be hard to see all the words fitting with other words fitting
>> with other words until one reaches the top word.
>>
>> I fancy it'll take a few weeks, a box or two of pencils and a ream of A4.
>
> What is wrong with people that they keep saying Forth does not support
> anything other than bottom up design???  That is silly.

It's a glib excuse for not using Forth.The problem is that on clf we 
have a lot more people "writing a Forth to find out how it works" than 
people using it in real-world projects (which is the *real* way to find 
out how it works).

Indeed, top down *design* is really necessary for any project. With 
Forth, you can use stubs to support the upper levels, while working on 
device interfaces at the bottom, but you need to understand how the 
bottom levels will be *used* before writing them, so the integrity of 
the whole design from top down is really necessary.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#48488

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:34:19 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> 
> It's a glib excuse for not using Forth.The problem is that on clf we 
> have a lot more people "writing a Forth to find out how it works" than 
> people using it in real-world projects (which is the *real* way to find 
> out how it works).
> 
> Indeed, top down *design* is really necessary for any project. With 
> Forth, you can use stubs to support the upper levels, while working on 
> device interfaces at the bottom, but you need to understand how the 
> bottom levels will be *used* before writing them, so the integrity of 
> the whole design from top down is really necessary.
> 

To put it another way, design top-down, implement bottom-up. I may have read that from you.

Forth is a language best taught by experts. You can teach yourself, but it's going to take a while if you're learning by doing. Using a commercial Forth is a good way to learn from an expert.

In theory, you could use Forth as an OS. In the early days of computing, it was used as an OS in high performance applications. But nowadays the ecosystem of interfaces is so complex and high-maintenance (rapidly shifting) that it's not practical.

Forth will continue to be a powerful tool in the embedded realm because virtual machines offer many benefits such as security, compactness and processor independence. I think the focus on native code generation for stand-alone apps may have had its day, since embedded systems are also getting very complex ecosystems of interfaces and middleware. Tapping into that relies on living in the C/IDE (such as Eclipse) environment. Which is all for the best since it provides the best of both worlds.

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#48501

Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Forth is a language best taught by experts. You can teach yourself,
> but it's going to take a while if you're learning by doing. Using a
> commercial Forth is a good way to learn from an expert.

I was fortunate enough to work for COMSOL and attend (and later teach)
some training courses and then even do some things with Forth, Inc.
I'm not sure that I would ever have really got the idea of Forth
without being taught by experts.

But it's not just about courses: the back-and-forth relationship
between apprentice and journeyman[1] is perhaps a more appropriate
analogy than that of formal classroom education, although both have
their places.  Everyone needs a mentor.

Andrew.


[1] Sorry, I know of no non-sexist substitute.

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#48515

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
> journeyman[1]
> [1] Sorry, I know of no non-sexist substitute.

Advogato.org uses "journeyer".

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#48538

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>> journeyman[1]
>> [1] Sorry, I know of no non-sexist substitute.
> 
> Advogato.org uses "journeyer".

Cool, thanks.  I guess I'll use that, but I'll have to explain it.

Andrew.

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#48547

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 3:09:53 AM UTC-7, Andrew Haley wrote:
> I was fortunate enough to ... do some things with Forth, Inc.

You work for Forth Inc., and you are on the Forth-200x committee.

Everybody on the Forth-200x committee is obligated to do what their boss Leon Wagner tells them to do --- Forth-200x just a marketing gimmick from Forth Inc. --- Forth-200x does not represent the Forth community.

> I'm not sure that I would ever have really got the idea of Forth
> without being taught by experts.

I suppose this was the self-proclaimed "leading expert" on Forth, Elizabeth Rather. Here is a recent thread with several quotes from your mentor:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/Ts2pToYJO2A%5B51-75%5D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 2:04:35 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> Every Forth programmer who has written an application has the start of a 
> library. One who has worked on a team project, has more. It grows with 
> every application. Most programmers who have been around any amount of 
> time have a back pocket full of useful stuff that gets re-used. But it's 
> rarely used unchanged, because *this* application needed somewhat 
> different constraints, interface, units, ... and it was quick and easy 
> to pull something out of that back pocket and adapt it. Formal libraries 
> aren't that flexible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

And a little later:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 7:40:12 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 6/18/16 9:09 AM, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 5:57:46 PM UTC+12, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> >>
> >> On 6/18/16 2:28 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 9:04:35 AM UTC+12, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> But it's rarely used unchanged, because *this* application needed somewhat
> >>>> different constraints, interface, units, ... and it was quick and easy
> >>>> to pull something out of that back pocket and adapt it. Formal libraries
> >>>> aren't that flexible.
> >>>
> >>> Isn’t that a criticism of the language, rather than the library concept?
> >>> Because other languages can implement amazingly flexible libraries.
> >>>
> >> No, it's a testament to the flexibility of Forth. As someone else said,
> >> it means that rather than adapt your program to the library, you can
> >> select the specific features you need and have them operate exactly the
> >> way you want, with great ease.
> >
> > So you never copy and paste code from one project to the next? You always start with a clean slate?
> 
> Not at all. I start with useful code from the last project, take useful 
> functions, and modify it as necessary. Sometimes that's not at all, but 
> often there are tweaks needed. What I *don't* do is try to regard it as 
> a black box not to be touched, which seems to be the idea behind 
> "standard libraries".
> 
> Cheers,
> Elizabeth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

> But it's not just about courses: the back-and-forth relationship
> between apprentice and journeyman[1] is perhaps a more appropriate
> analogy than that of formal classroom education, although both have
> their places.  Everyone needs a mentor.

All of this talk about being a journeyman Forth programmer is just arrogant sales-blather --- the Forth-200x committee is doing everything in its power to prevent Standard Forth from supporting code-libraries --- this is not professional programming!

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#48493

rikman are you a bottom?

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#48489

you know how fast 100s millions of people woujld switch to a cheaper faster device with more reliability

I am amazed forth people are not making a browser powering os that works with usb3 and vga hdmi etc

pc biz is still massive massive business

laptops are shittier with more usb less vga so u need all these dongles mactard style

if you can make a os better than freebsd in 1% the code by using forth no C

then you could jump ahead of everything

clusters of them could then run forth big data

billions of $ in profits for those who deliverr this

billions

needs tcp ip and freifox ish browser

if can be made to work well in clusters as jeff fox sad is as easy as a for loop with lindaspace in forth.....then you have game changing machine

can you do mit with the greenararys chip?

even beeter!!


pricewatch.com still has $150+ amd64 chip desktop pc

http://www.pricewatch.com/price/computer_systems_no_os/fx_4130

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