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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #55129 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-02-26 14:20 -0800 |
| Last post | 2017-03-01 12:16 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 83 — 14 participants |
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eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-26 14:20 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-26 17:57 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-26 23:15 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-26 22:04 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 02:49 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 11:15 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 13:10 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 16:51 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 22:47 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 21:15 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 01:08 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 23:21 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 03:22 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 13:45 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 15:42 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-11 14:33 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-11 11:06 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-12 09:58 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-12 03:42 -0700
Re: eForth specific words? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-02 15:37 +1100
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 00:40 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 21:57 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 03:13 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 03:29 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 10:49 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:13 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-11 12:39 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? pbro <peter040@sympatico.ca> - 2017-03-11 13:09 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-12 10:22 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-12 03:57 -0700
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-12 15:03 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 09:42 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 10:27 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 11:12 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:19 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 14:34 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:16 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:08 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 11:22 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 11:29 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 14:54 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 18:00 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-01 13:33 +0100
Re: eForth specific words? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 06:19 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:17 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 09:54 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:21 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 11:08 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 09:17 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 09:38 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 12:34 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:23 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 11:49 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 15:14 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 12:39 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 15:04 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 14:31 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 17:44 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-27 23:11 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 23:22 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 01:26 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-28 00:58 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 10:24 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 01:25 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 03:44 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-28 09:56 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 14:16 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 20:03 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 12:12 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 14:19 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 16:49 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 15:07 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:19 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-02-26 20:15 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-26 20:15 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-02-26 18:20 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-02-26 20:33 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-26 22:18 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 03:19 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 08:08 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-28 19:30 +1100
Re: eForth specific words? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 11:43 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 12:16 -0800
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| From | Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 14:20 -0800 |
| Subject | eForth specific words? |
| Message-ID | <b1fac408-b9bf-4aac-a52b-d6d5d6f213c4@googlegroups.com> |
Hi all. I ran into the non-standard words FOR AFT NEXT while playing around with eForth. I understand that FOR and NEXT are frowned upon by experienced "old-schoolers" in a manner not unlike PICK and ROLL, but they're easy enough to implement and understand. The problem I'm having is understanding how AFT works and using it inside (or even outside) a FOR ... NEXT loop. AFT appears to always be paired with a THEN but that's about all I have been able to learn with any certainty. I have noticed in the examples I've found that there aren't any words between FOR and AFT nor any words between AFT's THEN and NEXT ... is this state of affairs mandatory or optional, and if optional how would those intervening words act, generally speaking? TIA Mike B.
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| From | hughaguilar96@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 17:57 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <5a233dca-0c96-4ad8-8896-a6f340de9640@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55129 |
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 3:20:54 PM UTC-7, Michael Barry wrote: > Hi all. I ran into the non-standard words FOR AFT NEXT while playing around > with eForth. I understand that FOR and NEXT are frowned upon by experienced > "old-schoolers" in a manner not unlike PICK and ROLL, but they're easy enough > to implement and understand. The problem I'm having is understanding how > AFT works and using it inside (or even outside) a FOR ... NEXT loop. AFT > appears to always be paired with a THEN but that's about all I have been able > to learn with any certainty. I have noticed in the examples I've found that > there aren't any words between FOR and AFT nor any words between AFT's THEN > and NEXT ... is this state of affairs mandatory or optional, and if optional > how would those intervening words act, generally speaking? > > TIA > > Mike B. I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through experimentation. Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document describing what all the words do.
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 23:15 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o90cho$tt7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55141 |
On 2/26/2017 7:57 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote: > On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 3:20:54 PM UTC-7, Michael Barry wrote: >> Hi all. I ran into the non-standard words FOR AFT NEXT while playing around >> with eForth. I understand that FOR and NEXT are frowned upon by experienced >> "old-schoolers" in a manner not unlike PICK and ROLL, but they're easy enough >> to implement and understand. The problem I'm having is understanding how >> AFT works and using it inside (or even outside) a FOR ... NEXT loop. AFT >> appears to always be paired with a THEN but that's about all I have been able >> to learn with any certainty. I have noticed in the examples I've found that >> there aren't any words between FOR and AFT nor any words between AFT's THEN >> and NEXT ... is this state of affairs mandatory or optional, and if optional >> how would those intervening words act, generally speaking? >> >> TIA >> >> Mike B. > > I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through experimentation. > > Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document describing what all the words do. > There is all sort of documentation available, some walk through the compiler and describe what is happening section by section and also there are discussions on the philosophy behind it. It's there if one looks for it. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 22:04 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <7f673166-d6ed-4ea1-b2ce-3fcb19aa074c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55141 |
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 5:57:53 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: > I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good > Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through > experimentation. > > Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private > email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it > doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document > describing what all the words do. https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf I know that Ray Duncan didn't have a very high opinion of Dr. Ting's literature, but I find him to be entertaining and charming, in an eccentric sort of way. Although it is probably politically incorrect to say so, I found it helpful to read along in my head with a Chinese accent. :-) Mike B.
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-27 02:49 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <d373f243-9027-47f9-a48c-e4c5fcb7850a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55160 |
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:04:34 AM UTC, Michael Barry wrote: > On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 5:57:53 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: > > I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good > > Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through > > experimentation. > > > > Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private > > email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it > > doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document > > describing what all the words do. > > https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf > > I know that Ray Duncan didn't have a very high opinion of Dr. Ting's > literature, but I find him to be entertaining and charming, in an > eccentric sort of way. Although it is probably politically incorrect > to say so, I found it helpful to read along in my head with a Chinese > accent. :-) > > Mike B. Michael Barry, I have just reported you to Kindle / amazon for copyright violation. And will let them do their work. You ripped my eBook and are republishing it for free. Even if you have not done this yourself you are still violating copyright as you know it very well and you are still distributing it. Copyright is quite clearly stated in the first lines of what you published here in full knowledge of what you are distributing. And I assume that Ting is not very happy about it either. https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf I might consider seperate legal steps.
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-27 11:15 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o91mog$ah6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55170 |
On 2/27/2017 4:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:04:34 AM UTC, Michael Barry wrote: >> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 5:57:53 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: >>> I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good >>> Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through >>> experimentation. >>> >>> Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private >>> email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it >>> doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document >>> describing what all the words do. >> >> https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf >> >> I know that Ray Duncan didn't have a very high opinion of Dr. Ting's >> literature, but I find him to be entertaining and charming, in an >> eccentric sort of way. Although it is probably politically incorrect >> to say so, I found it helpful to read along in my head with a Chinese >> accent. :-) >> >> Mike B. > > Michael Barry, I have just reported you to Kindle / amazon for copyright violation. And will let them do their work. > You ripped my eBook and are republishing it for free. > Even if you have not done this yourself you are still violating copyright as you know it very well and you are still distributing it. > > Copyright is quite clearly stated in the first lines of what you published here in full knowledge of what you are distributing. > > And I assume that Ting is not very happy about it either. > > https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf > > I might consider seperate legal steps. > I bought the book so I already have a copy but I thought it was something new but the site is extremely suspicious, asking to install software to download a PDF file, locking you in the web page so you can't exit. Thanks for publishing these books from Dr. Ting for very low cost, but apparently that is not good enough for some. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-27 13:10 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <41e06454-b634-4e6e-a4d0-1ee80bf1543d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55187 |
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 5:15:49 PM UTC, Cecil - k5nwa wrote: > On 2/27/2017 4:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > > On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:04:34 AM UTC, Michael Barry wrote: > >> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 5:57:53 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: > >>> I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good > >>> Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through > >>> experimentation. > >>> > >>> Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private > >>> email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it > >>> doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document > >>> describing what all the words do. > >> > >> https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf > >> > >> I know that Ray Duncan didn't have a very high opinion of Dr. Ting's > >> literature, but I find him to be entertaining and charming, in an > >> eccentric sort of way. Although it is probably politically incorrect > >> to say so, I found it helpful to read along in my head with a Chinese > >> accent. :-) > >> > >> Mike B. > > > > Michael Barry, I have just reported you to Kindle / amazon for copyright violation. And will let them do their work. > > You ripped my eBook and are republishing it for free. > > Even if you have not done this yourself you are still violating copyright as you know it very well and you are still distributing it. > > > > Copyright is quite clearly stated in the first lines of what you published here in full knowledge of what you are distributing. > > > > And I assume that Ting is not very happy about it either. > > > > https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf > > > > I might consider seperate legal steps. > > > I bought the book so I already have a copy but I thought it was > something new but the site is extremely suspicious, asking to install > software to download a PDF file, locking you in the web page so you > can't exit. > > Thanks for publishing these books from Dr. Ting for very low cost, but > apparently that is not good enough for some. > > > -- > Cecil - k5nwa Cecil, the PDF DISCUSSED HERE IS the rip-off of the ebook you kindly bought from the Forth Bookshelf at https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juergen-Pintaske/e/B00N8HVEZM , as you can see when you just compare the text on the first page - with are some lines of what I posted from the rip-off - even with my name on it of the one I formatted and published.
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-27 16:51 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o92ad2$mra$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55208 |
On 2/27/2017 3:10 PM, JUERGEN wrote: > On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 5:15:49 PM UTC, Cecil - k5nwa wrote: >> On 2/27/2017 4:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote: >>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:04:34 AM UTC, Michael Barry wrote: >>>> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 5:57:53 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good >>>>> Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through >>>>> experimentation. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private >>>>> email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it >>>>> doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document >>>>> describing what all the words do. >>>> >>>> https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf >>>> >>>> I know that Ray Duncan didn't have a very high opinion of Dr. Ting's >>>> literature, but I find him to be entertaining and charming, in an >>>> eccentric sort of way. Although it is probably politically incorrect >>>> to say so, I found it helpful to read along in my head with a Chinese >>>> accent. :-) >>>> >>>> Mike B. >>> >>> Michael Barry, I have just reported you to Kindle / amazon for copyright violation. And will let them do their work. >>> You ripped my eBook and are republishing it for free. >>> Even if you have not done this yourself you are still violating copyright as you know it very well and you are still distributing it. >>> >>> Copyright is quite clearly stated in the first lines of what you published here in full knowledge of what you are distributing. >>> >>> And I assume that Ting is not very happy about it either. >>> >>> https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf >>> >>> I might consider seperate legal steps. >>> >> I bought the book so I already have a copy but I thought it was >> something new but the site is extremely suspicious, asking to install >> software to download a PDF file, locking you in the web page so you >> can't exit. >> >> Thanks for publishing these books from Dr. Ting for very low cost, but >> apparently that is not good enough for some. >> >> >> -- >> Cecil - k5nwa > > Cecil, the PDF DISCUSSED HERE IS the rip-off of the ebook you kindly bought from the Forth Bookshelf at https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juergen-Pintaske/e/B00N8HVEZM , as you can see when you just compare the text on the first page - with are some lines of what I posted from the rip-off - even with my name on it of the one I formatted and published. > I didn't download the bogus book as the website was a bad site. But I enjoy that book I bought from Amazon, I also bought the software from Dr. Ting as he had some versions I was interested in that were older, so I bought a copy of the software from Dr. Ting even though the version used in the book was available for free. He had a older copy that was subroutine threaded and I wanted a copy of it so I paid him for it. There are several excellent Forth compilers available for the MSP430 besides eForth. I also bought his latest literature on the esp8266 and bought the software and have been playing with it, I added documentation to the software. After I get over some dental issues I will start working on major modifications to it as I found several places where the Arduino code for the Forth VM is very inefficient and will start changing it to speed it up, I expect at least a 5X speed improvement since the problems are in the code for the Virtual Forth machine and they are executed constantly. The code is interesting and very simple so it could be very useful in other CPUs once the efficiency is raised a bit. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 22:47 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o95jl9$f7i$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55208 |
On 2/27/2017 3:10 PM, JUERGEN wrote: > On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 5:15:49 PM UTC, Cecil - k5nwa wrote: >> On 2/27/2017 4:49 AM, JUERGEN wrote: >>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:04:34 AM UTC, Michael Barry wrote: >>>> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 5:57:53 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good >>>>> Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through >>>>> experimentation. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private >>>>> email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it >>>>> doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document >>>>> describing what all the words do. >>>> >>>> https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf >>>> >>>> I know that Ray Duncan didn't have a very high opinion of Dr. Ting's >>>> literature, but I find him to be entertaining and charming, in an >>>> eccentric sort of way. Although it is probably politically incorrect >>>> to say so, I found it helpful to read along in my head with a Chinese >>>> accent. :-) >>>> >>>> Mike B. >>> >>> Michael Barry, I have just reported you to Kindle / amazon for copyright violation. And will let them do their work. >>> You ripped my eBook and are republishing it for free. >>> Even if you have not done this yourself you are still violating copyright as you know it very well and you are still distributing it. >>> >>> Copyright is quite clearly stated in the first lines of what you published here in full knowledge of what you are distributing. >>> >>> And I assume that Ting is not very happy about it either. >>> >>> https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf >>> >>> I might consider seperate legal steps. >>> >> I bought the book so I already have a copy but I thought it was >> something new but the site is extremely suspicious, asking to install >> software to download a PDF file, locking you in the web page so you >> can't exit. >> >> Thanks for publishing these books from Dr. Ting for very low cost, but >> apparently that is not good enough for some. >> >> >> -- >> Cecil - k5nwa > > Cecil, the PDF DISCUSSED HERE IS the rip-off of the ebook you kindly bought from the Forth Bookshelf at https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juergen-Pintaske/e/B00N8HVEZM , as you can see when you just compare the text on the first page - with are some lines of what I posted from the rip-off - even with my name on it of the one I formatted and published. > If anyone is interested I looked up on Google on the subject of removing DRM from Kindle files, I found quite a few detailed articles and several software applications. I downloaded one because it could do bulk removal of DRM, I pointed it to my Kindle repository on my PC and it removed protection from about 60% of the books in a matter of a few seconds including the four books I bought from you at Amazon. That was the first attempt, there are other plugins for example to be used with Calibre and it removes DRM copy protection and converts the file to quite a few formats. Moral of the story Amazon copy protection is only is an inconvenience to legitimate owners, but dishonest persons can easily remove copy protection and distribute the copyrighted material. Makes one not want to be an author because it's so easy to steal ones hard work. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 21:15 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87innth910.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55289 |
Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: > Makes one not want to be an author because it's so easy to steal ones > hard work. That's silly, books have never been copy restricted through most of history and people keep buying them. Or to the extent that they've slowed down, it hasn't been because of unauthorized copying in any meaningful way. FWIW, I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount (i.e. more than the restricted version costs, let's say $10 USD) for an unrestricted pdf or epub of "Footsteps in an Empty Valley" so I can read it with Calibre on my Linux laptop. If Juergen is ok with that, I'll send the money wherever he says to send it. Otherwise, I don't know how it all balances out, but this would be a definite (maybe isolated) instance of the author losing revenue because of the DRM.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-01 01:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <o95odq$p8l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55290 |
On 3/1/2017 12:15 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: >> Makes one not want to be an author because it's so easy to steal ones >> hard work. > > That's silly, books have never been copy restricted through most of > history and people keep buying them. Or to the extent that they've > slowed down, it hasn't been because of unauthorized copying in any > meaningful way. > > FWIW, I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount (i.e. more than the > restricted version costs, let's say $10 USD) for an unrestricted pdf or > epub of "Footsteps in an Empty Valley" so I can read it with Calibre on > my Linux laptop. If Juergen is ok with that, I'll send the money > wherever he says to send it. Otherwise, I don't know how it all > balances out, but this would be a definite (maybe isolated) instance of > the author losing revenue because of the DRM. I feel the same way. I never buy DRM pubs just because I never know when the DRM will crap out and I lose the pub. As I said in another post, the one time I bought a DRM music CD I couldn't use it for what I intended. Many times when I use licensed software the license gets in the way of working. I put up with the license because there is no alternative for FPGA work. Not true for other work such as software tools for CPUs or office tools, etc. In many domains there are unlicensed alternatives. When I use a tool that I find works very well, I am happy to pay for it. -- Rick C
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 23:21 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87efyhh37b.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55291 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > I never buy DRM pubs just because I never know when the DRM will crap > out and I lose the pub. As I said in another post, the one time I > bought a DRM music CD I couldn't use it for what I intended. Yep, that happens all the time even when it works at first. Remember divx? Everyone's video library broke when that company shut down. Microsoft PlaysForSure (audio DRM, called PlaysForShit by its critics)? Same thing IIRC. Aww heck, there's a whole WP article section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Obsolescence > Many times when I use licensed software the license gets in the way of > working. I put up with the license because there is no alternative > for FPGA work. I'm less fussy about software that I'm use for work, where it's basically a business calculation whether I get more immediate value from carrying out the task at hand with the tool than the tool costs up front. Plus, it's usually the company paying for it anyway. But I still prefer FOSS so I at least have some chance of fixing it if it breaks. That's been a route out of multiple jams over the years ;-).
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-01 03:22 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <1cdc4fdb-50cf-4821-8b61-798414c6a8a3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55290 |
On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 5:15:57 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote: > Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: > > Makes one not want to be an author because it's so easy to steal ones > > hard work. > > That's silly, books have never been copy restricted through most of > history and people keep buying them. Or to the extent that they've > slowed down, it hasn't been because of unauthorized copying in any > meaningful way. > > FWIW, I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount (i.e. more than the > restricted version costs, let's say $10 USD) for an unrestricted pdf or > epub of "Footsteps in an Empty Valley" so I can read it with Calibre on > my Linux laptop. If Juergen is ok with that, I'll send the money > wherever he says to send it. Otherwise, I don't know how it all > balances out, but this would be a definite (maybe isolated) instance of > the author losing revenue because of the DRM. The eBooks are the taster and to make availibility known and read them anywhere - send the $ 25 directly to Ting and you get documentation and the full source code as for the last 10 years. I am trying to promote Forth, but it seems obvious that the Vampire League prevails - suck it out of them for free and then make money with it - Why not try it in in your corner shop and it is called STEALING and is simply a criminal offence.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-01 13:45 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <8760jshdrk.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55295 |
JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes: > The eBooks are the taster and to make availibility known and read them > anywhere - send the $ 25 directly to Ting and you get documentation > and the full source code as for the last 10 years. Do you mean for MSP430 eForth? It's interesting but I don't feel likely to use it. I liked reading the eForth source code from Bill Muench's site but I think that was enough to understand the idea. The book I'm specifically interested in is Footsteps in an Empty Valley, which is about the Novix. $25 to Ting sounds fine if I can get an unrestricted pdf of it. That way I can read it anywhere without needing Amazon's permission (by using software they control). Let me know. > I am trying to promote Forth, but it seems obvious that the Vampire > League prevails - suck it out of them for free and then make money > with it - Why not try it in in your corner shop and it is called > STEALING and is simply a criminal offence. Offering to pay for a book is called stealing??! I don't know how you figure that. You're asking me to buy a DRM book which means that it will stop working if Amazon stops supporting the DRM software. If anyone is potentially stealing in that picture, it is Amazon. I prefer the traditional way of buying books, which means after I buy it I can read it anytime I want without needing someone else's permission. Amazon is trying to change that deal in ways that I don't like.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-01 15:42 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87k288fts6.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55334 |
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes: > The book I'm specifically interested in is Footsteps in an Empty Valley, > which is about the Novix. $25 to Ting sounds fine if I can get an > unrestricted pdf of it. Never mind, it looks like he sells pdfs for $15. I'll try to get one from him. Thanks anyway.
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| From | Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-11 14:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20170311143332.6a337732@t530.lan> |
| In reply to | #55342 |
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 15:42:49 -0800 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes: > > The book I'm specifically interested in is Footsteps in an > > Empty Valley, which is about the Novix. $25 to Ting sounds > > fine if I can get an unrestricted pdf of it. > > Never mind, it looks like he sells pdfs for $15. I'll try to > get one from him. Thanks anyway. From where? (I cant find my copy) Are you likely to want or build a hardware model? Jan Coombs
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-11 11:06 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <a54ad48b-d355-448b-92ba-26606ef3bc8c@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55342 |
On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:42:49 PM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote: > Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes: > > The book I'm specifically interested in is Footsteps in an Empty Valley, > > which is about the Novix. $25 to Ting sounds fine if I can get an > > unrestricted pdf of it. > > Never mind, it looks like he sells pdfs for $15. I'll try to get one > from him. Thanks anyway. https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ting_s_electronic_forth_bookshelf I organized a location in the Forth-ev.de wiki to have a list of his PDFs visible - and the email to buy them from Ting. This is included as part of his latest eBooks now - and in his latest PDFs, so people know what is available from Ting.
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| From | Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-12 09:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20170312095851.6f9bc873@t530.lan> |
| In reply to | #55632 |
On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 11:06:22 -0800 (PST) JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote: > On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:42:49 PM UTC, Paul Rubin > wrote: > > Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes: > > > The book I'm specifically interested in is Footsteps in an > > > Empty Valley, which is about the Novix. $25 to Ting > > > sounds fine if I can get an unrestricted pdf of it. > > > > Never mind, it looks like he sells pdfs for $15. I'll try > > to get one from him. Thanks anyway. > > https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ting_s_electronic_forth_bookshelf > I organized a location in the Forth-ev.de wiki to have a list > of his PDFs visible - and the email to buy them from Ting. > This is included as part of his latest eBooks now - and in his > latest PDFs, so people know what is available from Ting. Thanks for the link, I'll give it a go. Also thanks for persuading Ting to recover and proof read his fading copy of this interesting material. Jan Coombs
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-12 03:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <3f64eb9c-b1eb-4827-9791-114c543f0b7b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55676 |
On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 9:58:52 AM UTC, Jan Coombs wrote: > On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 11:06:22 -0800 (PST) > JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote: > > > On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:42:49 PM UTC, Paul Rubin > > wrote: > > > Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes: > > > > The book I'm specifically interested in is Footsteps in an > > > > Empty Valley, which is about the Novix. $25 to Ting > > > > sounds fine if I can get an unrestricted pdf of it. > > > > > > Never mind, it looks like he sells pdfs for $15. I'll try > > > to get one from him. Thanks anyway. > > > > https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:ting_s_electronic_forth_bookshelf > > I organized a location in the Forth-ev.de wiki to have a list > > of his PDFs visible - and the email to buy them from Ting. > > This is included as part of his latest eBooks now - and in his > > latest PDFs, so people know what is available from Ting. > > Thanks for the link, I'll give it a go. Also thanks for > persuading Ting to recover and proof read his fading copy of > this interesting material. > > Jan Coombs Ting has done so much work for the Forth community. starting long time ago with Chuck. I was lucky to convince him to give me the opportunity to make it available as eBook - and make people aware what they can buy from him as sources for very little money. Next will be the EP32 Processor with eForth. Again with an image to download and run it from us - this time in a Brevia Board first. Has shown first signs of life here in Europe already. Within the next month I assume available. And if people want to understand and modify the VHDL - just order it from Ting directly - see link above to the Ting Forth Bookshelf. And Novix is growing slowly as well - needs a lot more work than just implementing the existing EP32 VHDL and eForth which are well documented.
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| From | "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-03-02 15:37 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <o987ev$u1r$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #55334 |
Paul Rubin wrote: > JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes: > > The eBooks are the taster and to make availibility known and read them > > anywhere - send the $ 25 directly to Ting and you get documentation > > and the full source code as for the last 10 years. > > Do you mean for MSP430 eForth? It's interesting but I don't feel likely > to use it. I liked reading the eForth source code from Bill Muench's > site but I think that was enough to understand the idea. > > The book I'm specifically interested in is Footsteps in an Empty Valley, > which is about the Novix. $25 to Ting sounds fine if I can get an > unrestricted pdf of it. That way I can read it anywhere without needing > Amazon's permission (by using software they control). Let me know. > > > I am trying to promote Forth, but it seems obvious that the Vampire > > League prevails - suck it out of them for free and then make money > > with it - Why not try it in in your corner shop and it is called > > STEALING and is simply a criminal offence. > > Offering to pay for a book is called stealing??! I don't know how you > figure that. You're asking me to buy a DRM book which means that it > will stop working if Amazon stops supporting the DRM software. If > anyone is potentially stealing in that picture, it is Amazon. I prefer > the traditional way of buying books, which means after I buy it I can > read it anytime I want without needing someone else's permission. > Amazon is trying to change that deal in ways that I don't like. Well it's all about money isn't it. If they (i.e. any commercial interest) can find a way to lock you into something that benefits them, they will. While no longer fashionable I prefer to buy music on pressed CD's for all the reasons you give.
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