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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #56164 > unrolled thread

comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM

Started byRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
First post2017-03-23 02:17 -0500
Last post2017-05-11 20:59 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 184 — 31 participants

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  comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-23 02:17 -0500
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 00:27 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-03-23 11:50 +0000
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-23 12:34 -0500
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 10:56 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM mentificium@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 05:25 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 19:23 -0400
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM john <anon@example.com> - 2017-05-03 10:54 +0100
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM mentificium@gmail.com - 2017-05-04 05:28 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Dennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 17:46 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 18:49 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-24 22:09 -0500
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-03-24 20:47 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-03-25 10:49 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2017-05-06 12:39 -0700
      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 02:07 -0700
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-10 11:23 +0200
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-10 16:29 -1000
          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-11 13:39 -0700
            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 16:01 -0500
              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-11 21:41 -1000
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-12 03:18 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:12 -0500
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 19:15 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:01 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-16 17:59 -0400
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 16:57 -0400
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-26 02:28 -0700
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-12 17:44 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-13 00:21 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:15 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-13 00:30 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-13 04:43 -0500
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-13 12:51 +0100
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-13 08:47 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 09:57 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-13 18:26 +0100
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-13 10:59 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:36 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 00:33 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 12:04 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 11:45 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-14 12:02 -0700
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:22 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-14 23:08 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:12 -0500
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-14 12:25 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-14 14:48 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-15 00:24 -0400
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:14 -0500
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:17 -0500
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:30 -0500
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 09:54 +0100
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 02:27 -0700
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-05-15 00:24 -0400
                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-15 09:53 +0100
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-15 16:31 +0200
                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 11:43 -0700
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 15:47 -0700
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 20:06 -0700
                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 12:05 +0100
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-16 15:00 +0000
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 10:52 -0700
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 19:33 +0100
                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-16 21:11 +0200
                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 21:25 +0100
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-17 07:48 +0200
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 10:50 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 19:27 +0100
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 11:42 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 20:22 +0100
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:57 -0700
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 13:01 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 13:01 +0100
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 14:09 +0200
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 07:00 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 22:15 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 22:21 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 08:04 +0200
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:10 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 08:19 +0200
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 23:29 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 08:44 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 01:13 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 10:02 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 01:29 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 11:34 +0200
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 03:56 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:44 +0000
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:42 +0000
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 03:59 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-18 13:01 +0200
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-18 08:26 +0100
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-18 09:37 +0000
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 08:16 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 11:04 -0500
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 19:41 +0100
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-16 21:05 +0200
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-16 11:21 -0700
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 20:32 +0100
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 19:35 -0700
                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 11:06 -0700
                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 19:30 +0100
                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:02 -0700
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 20:41 +0100
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 19:17 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 20:58 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 10:46 +0100
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 08:43 -0500
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 16:00 +0100
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 01:47 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:03 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 17:51 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 07:51 +0100
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 00:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 17:46 +0100
                                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 10:34 -0700
                                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-21 20:57 +0100
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 04:08 -0500
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 10:51 +0100
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 05:15 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 14:51 +0100
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 09:18 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 21:15 +0100
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 19:49 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-19 07:10 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-19 07:42 -0500
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:59 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 18:48 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-19 12:40 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 20:57 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-20 03:42 -0500
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 02:00 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 10:15 +0100
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:34 +0100
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-20 02:01 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-20 13:18 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-19 17:06 +0200
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 08:31 -0700
                                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-19 17:02 +0100
                                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:18 -0700
                                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 09:34 -0700
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-18 16:40 +0200
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:12 -0700
                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 02:30 -0700
                                                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-19 18:57 -0700
                                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 14:01 -0700
                                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-21 19:55 +0200
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 11:57 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 12:41 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 13:02 -0700
                                                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 14:43 -0700
                                                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 16:32 -0700
                                                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 18:46 -0700
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-22 07:05 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-23 13:45 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-23 22:02 +0100
                                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-24 01:00 -0700
                                                              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-24 14:07 +0100
                                            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 22:14 -0700
                                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-16 18:48 -1000
                                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-21 15:06 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 12:16 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:18 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:58 -0700
              Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 03:32 -0700
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:29 -0500
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:25 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 13:25 -0500
                Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-05-15 05:45 +0000
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 06:54 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-15 16:30 +0200
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-16 00:32 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 19:25 -0700
                        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-16 21:15 -0700
                          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 21:34 -0700
                  Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 08:39 -0700
                    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 12:38 -0700
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 17:32 -0500
                      Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Andreas Klimas <klimas@w3group.de> - 2017-05-16 10:06 +0200
            Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:51 -0700
          Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:50 -0700
        Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM gavino himself <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 11:47 -0700
    Re: comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM Bill Zimmerly <billzimmerly@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 20:59 -0700

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#56164 — comp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM

FromRichard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
Date2017-03-23 02:17 -0500
Subjectcomp.lang.forth is THE PROBLEM
Message-ID<TZCdnanG4OsB607FnZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@supernews.com>
I've not written FORTH in decades.
Why?
c.l.f !

I came across FORTH when _BYTE_ published its FORTH issue.
I discovered : and ;
I was working for an Architectural/Engineering/Surveying firm at the time.
I became an instant hero when I recognized our CAD system was very FORTH 
like. With no more background than that article I was able to write a 
script that took input in the format of surveyors' field notes  and 
produced a plot of parcel with a report of closure error.

I then had a problem that was a near ideal candidate for a FORTH 
solution. The only problem was that the input data was heavily string 
oriented. I was so naive as to ask on c.l.f. for assistance in parsing 
the string data. It was irrelevant that the data processing problem was 
a near ideal candidate for a FORTH solution. But my raw input data was 
in strings Therefore I was told by c.l.f. that I was a !@$##@%$#!%$#@ 
idiot for attempting to use FORTH.

In spite of the efforts of c.l.f , FORTH has strongly influenced my 
problem solving methodology. Though not having written a screen of FORTH 
in decades!

I assert that c.l.f is FORTH's worst enemy.
THIMK!!!

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#56165

FromJulian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-23 00:27 -0700
Message-ID<4fdebd8d-32c5-4058-a58f-f29fcf53936f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56164
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 2:17:53 AM UTC-5, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I've not written FORTH in decades.
> Why?
> c.l.f !
> 
> I came across FORTH when _BYTE_ published its FORTH issue.
> I discovered : and ;
> I was working for an Architectural/Engineering/Surveying firm at the time.
> I became an instant hero when I recognized our CAD system was very FORTH 
> like. With no more background than that article I was able to write a 
> script that took input in the format of surveyors' field notes  and 
> produced a plot of parcel with a report of closure error.
> 
> I then had a problem that was a near ideal candidate for a FORTH 
> solution. The only problem was that the input data was heavily string 
> oriented. I was so naive as to ask on c.l.f. for assistance in parsing 
> the string data. It was irrelevant that the data processing problem was 
> a near ideal candidate for a FORTH solution. But my raw input data was 
> in strings Therefore I was told by c.l.f. that I was a !@$##@%$#!%$#@ 
> idiot for attempting to use FORTH.
> 
> In spite of the efforts of c.l.f , FORTH has strongly influenced my 
> problem solving methodology. Though not having written a screen of FORTH 
> in decades!
> 
> I assert that c.l.f is FORTH's worst enemy.
> THIMK!!!

k.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#56170

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2017-03-23 11:50 +0000
Message-ID<2017Mar23.125037@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#56164
Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> writes:
>I then had a problem that was a near ideal candidate for a FORTH 
>solution. The only problem was that the input data was heavily string 
>oriented. I was so naive as to ask on c.l.f. for assistance in parsing 
>the string data. It was irrelevant that the data processing problem was 
>a near ideal candidate for a FORTH solution. But my raw input data was 
>in strings Therefore I was told by c.l.f. that I was a !@$##@%$#!%$#@ 
>idiot for attempting to use FORTH.

That's a very easy answer to write, and the nature of not just Usenet,
but all such public discussion fora is that you get easy answers
first.  Whether you get harder answers can depend on how you posed
your question.

The way you describe the problem now, one possible solution is to use
a parser written with Gray or with Brad Rodriguez' BNF parser.  As the
author of Gray, I am likely to give that answer if I see such a
posting and the problem looks appropriate for Gray.  So either I did
not see the posting, or the problem description did not look like it
was appropriate for Gray.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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#56191

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-03-23 12:34 -0500
Message-ID<ob10qd$h62$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56164
On 3/23/2017 2:17 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I've not written FORTH in decades.
> Why?
> c.l.f !
>
> I came across FORTH when _BYTE_ published its FORTH issue.
> I discovered : and ;
> I was working for an Architectural/Engineering/Surveying firm at the time.
> I became an instant hero when I recognized our CAD system was very FORTH
> like. With no more background than that article I was able to write a
> script that took input in the format of surveyors' field notes  and
> produced a plot of parcel with a report of closure error.
>
> I then had a problem that was a near ideal candidate for a FORTH
> solution. The only problem was that the input data was heavily string
> oriented. I was so naive as to ask on c.l.f. for assistance in parsing
> the string data. It was irrelevant that the data processing problem was
> a near ideal candidate for a FORTH solution. But my raw input data was
> in strings Therefore I was told by c.l.f. that I was a !@$##@%$#!%$#@
> idiot for attempting to use FORTH.
>
> In spite of the efforts of c.l.f , FORTH has strongly influenced my
> problem solving methodology. Though not having written a screen of FORTH
> in decades!
>
> I assert that c.l.f is FORTH's worst enemy.
> THIMK!!!
>

Not c.l.f that is just a list, it's the so called experts here that is 
the problem. It's either Forth as they define it or get ready for tons 
of personal insults.

Tiny Basic is allowed to have more features than Forth is so get ready 
for insults.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#56193

FromJulian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-23 10:56 -0700
Message-ID<04e61715-97c1-4e29-8ab1-bd07e0374469@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56191
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 12:34:53 PM UTC-5, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> On 3/23/2017 2:17 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> > I've not written FORTH in decades.
> > Why?
> > c.l.f !
> >
> > I came across FORTH when _BYTE_ published its FORTH issue.
> > I discovered : and ;
> > I was working for an Architectural/Engineering/Surveying firm at the time.
> > I became an instant hero when I recognized our CAD system was very FORTH
> > like. With no more background than that article I was able to write a
> > script that took input in the format of surveyors' field notes  and
> > produced a plot of parcel with a report of closure error.
> >
> > I then had a problem that was a near ideal candidate for a FORTH
> > solution. The only problem was that the input data was heavily string
> > oriented. I was so naive as to ask on c.l.f. for assistance in parsing
> > the string data. It was irrelevant that the data processing problem was
> > a near ideal candidate for a FORTH solution. But my raw input data was
> > in strings Therefore I was told by c.l.f. that I was a !@$##@%$#!%$#@
> > idiot for attempting to use FORTH.
> >
> > In spite of the efforts of c.l.f , FORTH has strongly influenced my
> > problem solving methodology. Though not having written a screen of FORTH
> > in decades!
> >
> > I assert that c.l.f is FORTH's worst enemy.
> > THIMK!!!
> >
> 
> Not c.l.f that is just a list, it's the so called experts here that is 
> the problem. It's either Forth as they define it or get ready for tons 
> of personal insults.
> 
> Tiny Basic is allowed to have more features than Forth is so get ready 
> for insults.
> 
> -- 
> Cecil - k5nwa

Original post:

>By this anecdote, I felt discouraged after a long ago exchange on
>this forum. Therefore this forum is the cause of my not writing
>Forth. By implication you should feel that whatever distress *you*
>have about Forth can be solved by making sure that nobody ever
>arbitrarily feels ungood emotions when they talk about Forth online.

Your post:

>By assertion pulled completely from my ass, the actual problem is not
>that you were discouraged once. The *actual* problem is a thing that
>never actually happens. By implication, any kind of failing in your
>life -- shortness of breath, unexpected hair loss, a cancelled
>appointment -- can probably be solved by... I dunno. Facebook profile
>pictures? Prayer circles? Please, somebody, take me seriously.

Hugh says "reptiles are insulting all Forth posted to clf clf!" three
thousand times a year.

Normal reaction: hm, reptiles insulted *no* code on clf at all for the
entire last year. Unless Hugh himself is a reptile, and his insults
count under that heading? Anyway, the ratio of complaints to incidents
of complaints, if there *are* any, would have to be too high for me to
take this seriously.

Complete idiots' reaction: THE REAL PROBLEM IS THOSE DARN REPTILES

-----
To be continued:

"YOU CALLED ME AN IDIOT?! YOU MUST NOT WANT FORTH TO HAVE FEATURES"

"Forth Inc is paying him to say that! Back in Testra people called me an idiot and--"

"Nobody in Testra called me an idiot! Julien is a LIAR"

"No popular language would have a community that calls its complete
idiots 'idiots'! That's it-- I'm not going to write any Forth for EVEN
MORE decades. I hope you're all satisfied with this outcome."

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#56223

Frommentificium@gmail.com
Date2017-03-24 05:25 -0700
Message-ID<eb613feb-e819-4e9a-9b06-125c08ca43ad@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56164
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 12:17:53 AM UTC-7, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I've not written FORTH in decades.
> Why?
> c.l.f !
> 
> I came across FORTH when _BYTE_ published its FORTH issue.
As Byte subscriber, I got that Forth issue ~July of 1980. 
[...]
> 
> I assert that c.l.f is FORTH's worst enemy.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.forth/7SqnXdv2bUE/NIECgXRS6U0J 
was my first major comp.lang.forth post, on 12.DEC.1994, titled 
"The Mind.rexx AI source code is free for porting to Forth."

I had posted the same announcement in several other prog-lang groups, but only c.l.f responded to me. Jeff Fox and robotics Forth-coder both got in touch with me, with the result that a few years later i spent 1998 porting Mind.Rexx into the MindForth AI program. 

Two years ago in April 2015 I started porting MindForth into Perl, and yesterday on 2017-03023 I finally figured out how to make the Perlmind as fully functional as MindForth, that is, able to wait patiently for human user input without stalling the entire program. Pretty soon, with a single click I will put the Singularity Launch Codes up on the Web at the location indicated below. 

Mentifex (Arthur)
-- 
http://ai.neocities.org/perlmind.txt -- Singularity Launch Codes
http://ai.neocities.org/mindforth.txt -- Forth AI in Win32Forth
http://www.nlg-wiki.org/systems/Special:Browse/Mind.Forth 
http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=307824.307853 -- ACM SIGPLAN Notices 

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#56247

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-24 19:23 -0400
Message-ID<ob49kd$r43$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56223
On 3/24/2017 8:25 AM, mentificium@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 12:17:53 AM UTC-7, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> I've not written FORTH in decades.
>> Why?
>> c.l.f !
>>
>> I came across FORTH when _BYTE_ published its FORTH issue.
> As Byte subscriber, I got that Forth issue ~July of 1980.
> [...]
>>
>> I assert that c.l.f is FORTH's worst enemy.
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.forth/7SqnXdv2bUE/NIECgXRS6U0J
> was my first major comp.lang.forth post, on 12.DEC.1994, titled
> "The Mind.rexx AI source code is free for porting to Forth."
>
> I had posted the same announcement in several other prog-lang groups, but only c.l.f responded to me. Jeff Fox and robotics Forth-coder both got in touch with me, with the result that a few years later i spent 1998 porting Mind.Rexx into the MindForth AI program.
>
> Two years ago in April 2015 I started porting MindForth into Perl, and yesterday on 2017-03023 I finally figured out how to make the Perlmind as fully functional as MindForth, that is, able to wait patiently for human user input without stalling the entire program. Pretty soon, with a single click I will put the Singularity Launch Codes up on the Web at the location indicated below.

Isn't the Singularity a potentially dangerous thing?  :(

-- 

Rick C

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#58568

Fromjohn <anon@example.com>
Date2017-05-03 10:54 +0100
Message-ID<MPG.3373b92d37f017c7989716@news.virginmedia.com>
In reply to#56223
In article <eb613feb-e819-4e9a-9b06-125c08ca43ad@googlegroups.com>, 
mentificium@gmail.com says...

> 
> I had posted the same announcement in several other prog-lang groups, but only c.l.f responded to me. Jeff Fox and robotics Forth-coder both got in touch with me, with the result that a few years later i spent 1998 porting Mind.Rexx into the MindForth AI program. 
> 
> Two years ago in April 2015 I started porting MindForth into Perl, and yesterday on 2017-03023 I finally figured out how to make the Perlmind as fully functional as MindForth, that is, able to wait patiently for human user input without stalling the entire program. Pretty soon, with a single click I will put the Singularity Launch Codes up on the Web at the location indicated below. 
> 
> Mentifex (Arthur)

You may not hear from me again Arthur (time constraints) but I'll certainly be 
taking a look at your work when available and thank you in advance for it.

Dont be too discouraged - my web site logs tell me there are far more people
interested in things than the few that put words online.
-- 

john

=========================
http://johntech.co.uk

"Bleeding Edge Forum"
http://johntech.co.uk/forum/ 

=========================

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#58643

Frommentificium@gmail.com
Date2017-05-04 05:28 -0700
Message-ID<a2e7e406-879f-4720-b99c-ebdd10c92a66@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58568
On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 2:55:07 AM UTC-7, john wrote:
> In article <eb613feb-e819-4e9a-9b06-125c08ca43ad@googlegroups.com>, 
> mentificium@gmail.com says...
> 
> > 
> > I had posted the same announcement in several other prog-lang groups, but only c.l.f responded to me. Jeff Fox and robotics Forth-coder both got in touch with me, with the result that a few years later i spent 1998 porting Mind.Rexx into the MindForth AI program. 
> > 
> > Two years ago in April 2015 I started porting MindForth into Perl, and yesterday on 2017-03023 I finally figured out how to make the Perlmind as fully functional as MindForth, that is, able to wait patiently for human user input without stalling the entire program. Pretty soon, with a single click I will put the Singularity Launch Codes up on the Web at the location indicated below. 
> > 
> > Mentifex (Arthur)
> 
> You may not hear from me again Arthur (time constraints) but I'll certainly be 
> taking a look at your work when available and thank you in advance for it.
> 
> Dont be too discouraged - my web site logs tell me there are far more people
> interested in things than the few that put words online.
> -- 
> 
> john
> 
> =========================
> http://johntech.co.uk
> 
> "Bleeding Edge Forum"
> http://johntech.co.uk/forum/ 
> 
> =========================

Thank you, John, for them encouraging words, 
and for the opportunity here and now to announce 
to comp.lang.forth-ers the most recent (yesterday) 
Mentifex AI initiative that mentions Forth AI:

http://mindsz.com/ideasz/ai-mind 

is something that resulted from a link I found at 
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14261681 
and so I created the most outrageous "ideasz" listing. 

Bye for now, 

Arthur 
-- 
http://mindsz.com/ideasz/ai-mind 
http://www.reddit.com/user/AiHasBeenSolved 
http://ai.neocities.org/maintainer.html 
http://cyborg.blogspot.com 

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#56249

FromDennis Ruffer <daruffer@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-24 17:46 -0700
Message-ID<5f2b0958-42d3-471d-b08d-c044b77ba38f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56164
The "problem" is not C.L.F. we had the same issues on GEnieNet, and it is not the "experts, but I commend those experts who do choose to work through the cruft and make some useful contributions here. Unless that use of "experts" meant the trolls who plague this forum, for they are certainly the root of the problem. I do believe that the trolls know who they are and revel in the disruptions they cause. I also believe that Trump and his "alternative facts" fan these flame throwers. Personally, I have no time for this shit-flinging and am long past tired of donning my asbestos suite. I know many other true experts in the Forth community who feel the same, and this truly does hurt Forth, FOREVER! The trolls have and will always win, until we can come together and do something about hate speech.

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#56251

FromJulian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com>
Date2017-03-24 18:49 -0700
Message-ID<a8a3de84-b25b-4563-bf79-6adc3d5c11f7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56249
On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 7:46:47 PM UTC-5, Dennis Ruffer wrote:
> I also believe that Trump and his "alternative facts" fan these flame throwers.

> Personally, I have no time for this shit-flinging

> The trolls have and will always win, until we can come together and do something about hate speech.

We're up to:

OP: With a time machine and a kind word (to me) you can make things
better.

Idiot: No, you need to battle these imaginary opponents.

druffer: Not to 'fling shit', but have you heard that Trump is a bad
person?  Not to 'troll', but does anyone else here dislike 'hate
speech'?

I don't think it can get any worse from here. It can only echo earlier
themes, or digress entirely.


To anyone else who'd like to solve "the problem", I recommend that you
aspire to be like Dennis Ruffer of late: never post here, ever. When a
full decade passes without a single post to clf, we can say that "the
problem" (which apparently involves code review, discussing the nature
of Forth, and whatever freak accident inspired this random gassing
about politics) has been solved.

And as always, if you'd like better content, post it. You want to see
Forth code?  Post it. You think Forth needs libraries? Write some. You
think the ratio of "experts controlling opinion" to "yourself sharing
your incomparable wisdom" should be improved? Then talk about Forth.
It's not hate speech yet.

Vultures hover over the dying in anticipating of the meal. These posts
that cry "if only you would listen to me, your nebulous distress
(please feel in the blanks yourself) will be eased." are the closest
you get get to vultures hovering online. There's no meal, but there's
satisfaction of a sort in the hovering. Even disgusted responses like
mine feed it. The vulture: "alas! for me to suffer such slings and
arrows, who came only out of pure human concern to ease the suffering
of others! Oh, I will feel *so* *bad* when you finally expire, when
could have listened :)"

There is nothing serious or sincere about your 'advice'.

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#56253

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-03-24 22:09 -0500
Message-ID<ob4ms0$kdj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#56249
On 3/24/2017 7:46 PM, Dennis Ruffer wrote:
> The "problem" is not C.L.F. we had the same issues on GEnieNet, and it is not the "experts, but I commend those experts who do choose to work through the cruft and make some useful contributions here. Unless that use of "experts" meant the trolls who plague this forum, for they are certainly the root of the problem. I do believe that the trolls know who they are and revel in the disruptions they cause. I also believe that Trump and his "alternative facts" fan these flame throwers. Personally, I have no time for this shit-flinging and am long past tired of donning my asbestos suite. I know many other true experts in the Forth community who feel the same, and this truly does hurt Forth, FOREVER! The trolls have and will always win, until we can come together and do something about hate speech.
>
There is enough crap here without bringing politics into the issue.

I define "experts" as those people who are totally intolerant of 
anything Forth that is different from their ideas.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#56255

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-03-24 20:47 -0700
Message-ID<4c4680ee-ab5e-4c42-aca1-8a814ab75921@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56253
On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 8:09:37 PM UTC-7, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> On 3/24/2017 7:46 PM, Dennis Ruffer wrote:
> > The "problem" is not C.L.F. we had the same issues on GEnieNet, and it is not the "experts, but I commend those experts who do choose to work through the cruft and make some useful contributions here. Unless that use of "experts" meant the trolls who plague this forum, for they are certainly the root of the problem. I do believe that the trolls know who they are and revel in the disruptions they cause. I also believe that Trump and his "alternative facts" fan these flame throwers. Personally, I have no time for this shit-flinging and am long past tired of donning my asbestos suite. I know many other true experts in the Forth community who feel the same, and this truly does hurt Forth, FOREVER! The trolls have and will always win, until we can come together and do something about hate speech.
> >
> There is enough crap here without bringing politics into the issue.
> 
> I define "experts" as those people who are totally intolerant of 
> anything Forth that is different from their ideas.

Well, then, I'm not a Forth expert! 

I have repeatedly said that I want Straight Forth to be a collaborative effort by the Forth community, so we could have a standard that makes sense (also: it is founded on an idea of Ilya Vasilyev that I hadn't thought of) --- I have never claimed to be the "leading expert" who alone has the right to define what Forth is --- I have never claimed to have learned Forth directly from Charles Moore in the 1970s, as if that matters in 2017.

I didn't support Trump in the election, and I still don't. I think that his plan of deporting illegal aliens will eventually expand into deporting citizens --- I could get deported to Mexico, even though I'm a citizen of America, and I don't even speak Spanish or have any family in Mexico --- the Nazis deported German citizens to Poland even though they weren't Poles and didn't speak Polish.

Most of the supporters of Trump are similar to Julien Fondren who wants "jack-booted thugs" (mostly out-of-uniform policemen) to remove their enemies from society for them --- or Rickman who wants to call 911 on his enemies and have the police "do his slugging for him" --- they expect Trump to rid America of undesirables, or at least beat them up, and they feel confident (without evidence) that they won't be among those undesirables.

I didn't support Hillary Clinton either --- she and Bill Clinton are bare-faced plunderers, with Slick Willy making $500,000 speeches while his wife was Secretary of State --- also, I think Bill Clinton was responsible for the crack-cocaine epidemic in America, because he allowed cocaine to be smuggled into Mena Arkansas when he was the governor of Arkansas.

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#56283

Fromkrishna.myneni@ccreweb.org
Date2017-03-25 10:49 -0700
Message-ID<534ab057-428b-443b-9fd1-f4a56039bb13@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56164
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 2:17:53 AM UTC-5, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I've not written FORTH in decades.
> Why?
> c.l.f !
> ...

No, I disagree. Even though I no longer post as much as I used to on c.l.f., and even though the level of discourse here has gone down considerably of late, I don't believe the meager popularity or use of forth can be pinned on c.l.f.

Krishna

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#58747

FromBrad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-06 12:39 -0700
Message-ID<3b9bcac7-4e63-465d-8b96-85adf9bd3764@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#56164
On Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 12:17:53 AM UTC-7, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I've not written FORTH in decades.
> Why?
> c.l.f !
> 
> I came across FORTH when _BYTE_ published its FORTH issue.
> I discovered : and ;
> I was working for an Architectural/Engineering/Surveying firm at the time.
> I became an instant hero when I recognized our CAD system was very FORTH 
> like. With no more background than that article I was able to write a 
> script that took input in the format of surveyors' field notes  and 
> produced a plot of parcel with a report of closure error.
> 
> I then had a problem that was a near ideal candidate for a FORTH 
> solution. The only problem was that the input data was heavily string 
> oriented. I was so naive as to ask on c.l.f. for assistance in parsing 
> the string data. It was irrelevant that the data processing problem was 
> a near ideal candidate for a FORTH solution. But my raw input data was 
> in strings Therefore I was told by c.l.f. that I was a !@$##@%$#!%$#@ 
> idiot for attempting to use FORTH.
> 
> In spite of the efforts of c.l.f , FORTH has strongly influenced my 
> problem solving methodology. Though not having written a screen of FORTH 
> in decades!
> 
> I assert that c.l.f is FORTH's worst enemy.
> THIMK!!!

All unmoderated forums have the same problems. There's no buy-in. I think a star rating system would help. It looks like Google Groups has something like that, but nobody uses it. Whose fault is that?

When I have Forth-related question, Google often answers it. CLF is also helpful. Trolls are the price we pay for getting to say whatever, no questions asked. 

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#58948

FromThe Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com>
Date2017-05-10 02:07 -0700
Message-ID<d826f522-b1da-44d6-9113-a21d4cb97bef@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58747
IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any REAL code in OO?

Another thing is that most people are SO convinced they are right any other opinion is rejected beforehand. And then it becomes personal.

I can only speak for myself, but I has less and less inclination to post anything there. If it's code, it's rejected. If it is any new idea, it's refuted or ignored. And all I find here is useless discussions and name calling - and I can do very little with that.

If it's good code, I can knick it. If it's useful comment, I can implement it. But this..

Hans Bezemer

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#58949

FromLars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org>
Date2017-05-10 11:23 +0200
Message-ID<86o9v19iap.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org>
In reply to#58948
The Beez write:
> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people are
> TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth.

I mostly agree with you, but I guess it's reasonable that people come to
comp.lang.forth to talk about Forth.  If they do something with Forth,
it usually doesn't show up here.

People post code, just not here.

There is some interesting coding going on out there.  I sometimes check
in on Forth repositories on GitHub and make comments and even pull
requests.  Out of the blue, someone jumped into my Forth and submitted a
port to asm.js.

If you want to go knee-deep in Forth code, comp.lang.forth isn't the
place.  Maybe GitHub is, or could be.

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#59025

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2017-05-10 16:29 -1000
Message-ID<1KGdnQznGekGUY7EnZ2dnUU7-fvNnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#58948
On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any REAL code in OO?

Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out 
c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing. 
That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.

An awful lot of Forth programming is getting done by FORTH, Inc. and its 
customers, though relatively little is OO. SWOOP is used extensively 
throughout SwiftForth, but we have rarely used it in applications 
because most of the apps we write are embedded and entirely procedural. 
OOP is good for certain kinds of projects, but as an all-purpose 
technique it's more overhead than help in many cases.

> Another thing is that most people are SO convinced they are right any other opinion is rejected beforehand. And then it becomes personal.
>
> I can only speak for myself, but I has less and less inclination to post anything there. If it's code, it's rejected. If it is any new idea, it's refuted or ignored. And all I find here is useless discussions and name calling - and I can do very little with that.
>
> If it's good code, I can knick it. If it's useful comment, I can implement it. But this..

Cheers,
Elizabeth


-- 
Elizabeth D. Rather
FORTH, Inc.
6080 Center Drive, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA  90045
USA

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#59096

Fromhughaguilar96@gmail.com
Date2017-05-11 13:39 -0700
Message-ID<54efa37a-2564-447f-b2d7-efd2bf3f90d3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#59025
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
> > IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any REAL code in OO?
> 
> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out 
> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing. 
> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.

You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers are inferior to you.

When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth to be utterly stupid.

Also, SWOOP is grossly inefficient. This makes Forth appear to be inefficient and useless.

This is my code:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

\ ******
\ ****** This provides the IS-A function for classes.
\ ******

98769876 constant class-id      \ used to make sure a class is actually a class; must be a distinctive value

0
    w field .class-parent   \ pointer to parent class       \ must be first field
    w field .class-size     \ size of object
    w field .class-id       \ should always be CLASS-ID
constant class-struct

\ Every object has a W field in front which is a pointer to the class-struct for its class.

: check-class ( class -- )
    .class-id @  class-id <> abort" *** tried to use a class that wasn't actually a class ***" ;

: create-nada ( -- )        \ create a class that has no parent
    create
        nil ,                       \ .class-parent     \ there is no parent
        w ,                         \ .class-size       \ room for the object's pointer to its class-struct
        class-id ,                  \ .class-id         \ this is for error-checking
    does> ( -- )
        true abort" *** it is illegal to make objects of class NADA ***" ;

create-nada nada            \ NADA is the only class that has no parent

\ NADA is only available so it can be the parent of classes that have no parent.
\ It is not really a class that can be used as such.

' alloc             constant heap-new           \ give this to the class to get a new object in the heap
' concrete-alloc    constant dict-new           \ give this to the class to get a new object in the dictionary

: class-size ( class -- size )
    .class-size @
    dup 0< abort" *** CLASS-SIZE given a class that never had its .CLASS-SIZE field set by END-CLASS ***" ;

: size' ( -- size )                             \ stream: class-name
    ' >body  dup check-class
    class-size ;

: object-size ( object -- size )
    @                                           \ -- class
    .class-size @ ;                             \ -- size

: class ( -- class offset )                     \ stream: class-name parent-name
    create  here            \ -- class
        ' >body             \ -- class parent
        dup check-class     \ -- class parent                   \ make sure PARENT is a class
        dup ,               \ -- class parent   \ .class-parent
        -1 ,                \ -- class parent   \ .class-size   \ this will get filled in by END-CLASS
        class-id ,          \ -- class parent   \ .class-id     \ this is for error-checking
        class-size          \ -- class offset
    does> ( 'alloc -- adr )                     \ make a new object ( 'ALLOC is either HEAP-NEW or DICT-NEW)
        >r                                      \ 'alloc --             \ r: -- class
        r@ class-size  swap execute             \ -- object
        dup  r@ class-size  erase                               \ zero out the object
        r>  over ! ;                                            \ first field of object is pointer to class

: end-class ( class offset -- )
    over check-class                            \ make sure CLASS is a class
    swap .class-size ! ;

: <<is-a>> ( object target -- flag )
    over check-class  over check-class
    = ;

: <is-a> ( object 'target -- flag )
    swap @  swap >body  <<is-a>> ;

: is-a ( object -- flag )                       \ stream: target-class-name
    ' <is-a> ;

: [is-a] ( object -- flag )                     \ stream: target-class-name
    postpone [']  postpone <is-a> ;
immediate

: <<is-child-of>> ( ancestor class -- flag )
    over check-class  over check-class
    begin
        2dup = if  2drop  true exit then
        @                                       \ -- ancestor parent    \ .class-parent is first field
        dup 0= if  2drop  false exit then
        again ;

: <is-child-of> ( object 'ancestor )
    >body  swap @  <<is-child-of>> ;

: is-child-of ( object -- flag )                \ stream: ancestor-class-name
    '  <is-child-of> ;

: [is-child-of] ( object -- flag )              \ stream: ancestor-class-name
    postpone [']  postpone <is-child-of> ;
immediate

\ IS-CHILD-OF tests if the object has ANCESTOR as an ancestor, meaning that it can use ANCESTOR's methods.

: <is-parent-of> ( object 'child )
    >body  swap @  swap <<is-child-of>> ;

: is-parent-of ( object -- flag )               \ stream: child-class-name
    '  <is-parent-of> ;

: [is-parent-of] ( object -- flag )             \ stream: child-class-name
    postpone [']  postpone <is-parent-of> ;
immediate

\ IS-PARENT-OF tests if the object has CHILD as a child, meaning that it can be upgraded to be a CHILD.

: <become> ( object 'class -- new-object )
    >body >r                                    \ -- object             \ r: -- class
    r@ class-size  realloc                      \ -- new-object
    r> over ! ;                                 \ -- new-object         \ class is object's first field

\ <BECOME> converts an object into a new class.
\ The new class must either be an ancestor or a child of the object's class.
\ Use IS-CHILD-OF to find out if the object is a child of the new class (can be downgraded to the parent class).
\ Use IS-PARENT-OF to find out if the object is a parent of the new-class (can be upgraded to the child class).

: become ( object -- new-object )               \ stream: class-name
    ' <become> ;

: [become] ( object -- new-object )             \ stream: class-name
    postpone [']  postpone <become> ;
immediate

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#59098

FromCecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date2017-05-11 16:01 -0500
Message-ID<of2j9n$8vm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#59096
On 5/11/2017 3:39 PM, hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:29:52 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 5/9/17 11:07 PM, The Beez wrote:
>>> IMHO the problem with Forth in general has always been that people are TALKING more about Forth than DOING things with Forth. E.g. the number of OO discussions are countless, but who has presented any REAL code in OO?
>>
>> Whenever I teach a course in Forth, I always tell people to check out
>> c.l.f. Most report they just don't have time for that sort of thing.
>> That is certainly true of Leon and our other staff.
> 
> You insult all Forth programmers by describing yourself as the "leading expert" of Forth, which implies that all Forth programmers are inferior to you.
> 
> When you teach your course in Forth, how many of those students become Forth programmers? None! You turn them off from Forth with your arrogance. You can't name any student of your novice class that has become a Forth programmer --- all of them thought that you were a low-grade moron because you were teaching them to use PAD for holding strings, and all of them went back to programming in C --- all of them spent the rest of their lives telling the other C programmers that they learned Forth from the "leading expert" in Forth, and found Forth to be utterly stupid.
> 

None might be a tad much, I would assume that some go back to where they 
came from and use Forth in projects, we really don't know for a fact as 
to what happens to the student.

> Also, SWOOP is grossly inefficient. This makes Forth appear to be inefficient and useless.

Object code turns out to be bad in just about every language, an idea 
that sounded good in theory but in practice too many programmers are 
dissatisfied with the results. I am getting the feeling that recognizers 
will turn out the same way but I'm guessing here.

When I used Delphi they had much better Object Code than C++ (to my 
liking) but after a while I quit using the feature starting with dynamic 
binding at runtime.

I personally have mixed feelings about Forth, I like it's simplicity and 
programming methodology but the lack of ready made tools is 
discouraging, and is a reason why I got a copy of 8th, Forth like with a 
rich assortment of useful tools. For embedded systems I like Forth to be 
simple and close to the hardware, for desktop I want Forth to be rich in 
useful tools in libraries.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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