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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #30486 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-05-20 09:23 -0700 |
| Last post | 2014-05-25 13:27 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 314 — 30 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth
Go Forth And Prosper Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-20 09:23 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 10:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 09:57 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 03:03 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 00:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 20:35 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-24 19:35 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:17 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 16:57 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 00:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 05:00 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 09:02 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 12:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper babruehl@gmail.com - 2014-05-25 12:36 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 15:43 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 13:02 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:14 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 17:04 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 15:44 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 12:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 18:08 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 23:44 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:29 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-27 15:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 00:12 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:19 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 11:41 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:38 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 08:13 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:57 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 08:30 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 21:44 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 09:01 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 22:09 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 10:26 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 23:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 12:32 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 09:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 21:32 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 10:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 11:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 12:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 11:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:24 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:35 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 15:56 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 10:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 16:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 20:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 01:57 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 10:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 17:29 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 10:56 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 11:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 12:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 12:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 15:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 13:10 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 13:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 14:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 20:50 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 19:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 23:50 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:51 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 03:19 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 00:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 01:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 05:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 00:42 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 13:53 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 20:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 17:34 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 21:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 20:33 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 13:48 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 20:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 17:44 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 21:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 00:08 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 12:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-27 13:36 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:53 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-27 18:11 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 08:57 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-29 09:42 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 15:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-30 00:23 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 02:04 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper test <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-28 04:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-28 10:17 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 06:51 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 13:35 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 10:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 09:19 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 13:41 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 12:20 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-28 13:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 17:54 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-28 19:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 23:17 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 11:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 11:51 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 13:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 13:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 13:48 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 14:02 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 14:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 14:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 15:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 15:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 15:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 16:11 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 16:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 17:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 17:58 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-30 01:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-31 14:15 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:29 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 22:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 20:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 23:35 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 20:55 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 20:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 00:22 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 21:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 01:28 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 08:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 13:05 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-30 11:47 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 13:07 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 14:14 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:04 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 12:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 23:41 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 17:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 15:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 18:15 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 17:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 21:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 19:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 19:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 19:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-30 11:37 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 20:16 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:32 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-31 02:49 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 19:15 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:23 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:18 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 08:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 09:53 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 09:50 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 11:17 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 09:55 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 23:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-28 04:56 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 09:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 09:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 10:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 10:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:57 -0500
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 10:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 10:47 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 20:45 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 11:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:08 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-29 09:46 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-31 13:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-31 23:07 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 06:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 20:39 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 16:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 09:43 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 12:40 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:47 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 10:54 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:49 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-28 12:52 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 12:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 12:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 03:21 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:08 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 20:15 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 11:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 16:02 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 13:30 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 16:50 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 14:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 18:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 17:15 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 15:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 15:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 17:19 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 17:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 18:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 18:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 21:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 19:58 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 20:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 01:27 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-21 10:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 09:07 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-21 11:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 15:34 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-21 11:48 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 21:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 18:48 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 13:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 16:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 00:18 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 18:55 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 02:22 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 22:06 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 14:26 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:17 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 17:48 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 14:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:23 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 12:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 11:36 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 14:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 15:23 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:29 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 16:51 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-22 13:58 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 13:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 09:18 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 18:46 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 19:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:36 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:42 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-27 23:13 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:19 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 20:52 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:12 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 12:41 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 01:47 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-28 05:20 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:03 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:13 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 06:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 16:44 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 07:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 17:01 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-28 15:01 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 08:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 20:45 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:10 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 23:28 +0300
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-28 17:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:01 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2014-05-28 08:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 21:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 14:52 +0300
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 23:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 19:41 +0300
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 02:35 -0700
Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-24 21:24 -0400
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 17:02 -1000
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 21:21 -0700
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-24 22:16 -0700
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 21:02 -1000
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-25 11:39 +0100
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-25 15:24 +0200
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 09:07 -0700
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-25 14:15 +0000
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2014-05-25 12:48 -0400
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-27 23:27 +0100
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2014-05-26 13:08 -0400
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 07:41 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-25 04:05 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 12:42 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 07:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 22:09 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-23 05:08 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-23 09:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-23 13:32 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-23 14:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:20 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-24 08:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 08:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-24 09:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 21:35 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-25 11:25 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 16:20 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-27 06:04 -0500
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 19:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-24 10:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:29 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 12:08 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:21 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:27 -0700
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 13:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lm56os$ql9$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30889 |
On 5/28/2014 9:51 AM, M. Simon wrote: > On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:04:55 AM UTC, rickman wrote: >> If your flash program trashed the boot program it *wasn't* in ROM. I >> >> thought there were protections on the boot loader, but I guess not. I'd >> >> take that one up with the manufacturer. People depend on that in >> >> products. Bricking a product in the field is not good public relations. >> >> :) >> >> Rick > > What does the trashing is the memory copy protection bits. You can set them so writing to the chip is impossible. That is not the symptom David J is describing. In that case the device would still respond, it simply wouldn't let you program it further. On looking back at his post, maybe you are right. He says, "the internal ROM loader would no longer work." So maybe it was the copy protection bits. Do they stop you from writing over top of existing code? I thought they simply prevented reads. -- Rick
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| From | "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 10:43 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d761226c-9705-4217-8821-35b5561843a9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30908 |
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 5:35:29 PM UTC, rickman wrote: > > That is not the symptom David J is describing. In that case the device > > would still respond, it simply wouldn't let you program it further. On > > looking back at his post, maybe you are right. He says, "the internal > > ROM loader would no longer work." So maybe it was the copy protection > > bits. Do they stop you from writing over top of existing code? I > > thought they simply prevented reads. > > > > -- > > > > Rick It depends on the level of protection you choose. The very highest level prevents you from changing the chip in any way. There is a warning in the LPC1114 user manual where they discuss user protection levels.
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| From | David J <skamolex@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 09:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <fd91ff9c-8b13-43e8-9be8-276d9b8021c9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30866 |
> Any current OS will provide all manner of protections from errant > programs trashing your computer. I won't say it is impossible, but > really, is that the reason you don't want to use Forth on a PC? It is not the reason anymore. 20 years ago it was. Now the reason is simply because a PC is big and because there are too many other great choices of languages for it. I don't need Forth there. In the two or three weeks since I started Forth, I've already deployed three projects. They are all running as we speak. A PC, even if it were free, would be the 10 ton elephant in the room. How do you hang a PC on the wall, or slip it in a cubbyhole of your desk, or power it with a small Li-ion cell for days? > I'm not sure what you are describing here, an ADM3A terminal with a > cassette tape attached? Don't be silly! I'm using a single chip - a Parallax Propeller - that provides the video display, keyboard interface, serial port, SD card interface, and editor. What enables it to do this are the eight processor cores inside it, and some great software objects available for it. All I had to create was the editor itself. > If your flash program trashed the boot program it *wasn't* in ROM. All I know is that the NXP bootloader on the chip will no longer work. I'm not blaming NXP, Forth, or anyone else. Stuff happens. And in this case I don't care...I'm only out a $1, which is what I paid Avnet for each chip.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 13:41 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lm5740$19h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30898 |
On 5/28/2014 12:19 PM, David J wrote: > > All I know is that the NXP bootloader on the chip will no longer work. > > I'm not blaming NXP, Forth, or anyone else. Stuff happens. > And in this case I don't care...I'm only out a $1, which is what > I paid Avnet for each chip. I can't really follow your line of reasoning. I guess you are saying in the past you didn't use Forth because you were afraid of messing up your PC. Now you won't use it on the PC because you prefer other languages. I'm still not clear on why you *are* using Forth on embedded targets. Are you saying you don't want to use a PC for development work? Ok, that's fine, but as Elizabeth pointed out PCs are very good development platforms in many ways. If you prefer your propeller as a development system, good for you. -- Rick
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| From | David J <skamolex@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 12:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7e42cfc9-f30d-4447-9dae-983270b09626@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30910 |
> I can't really follow your line of reasoning. I guess you are saying in > the past you didn't use Forth because you were afraid of messing up your > PC. Yes. Correct. > Now you won't use it on the PC because you prefer other languages. It is not that I refuse to put Forth on a PC. It is that I don't have the need or desire. Perhaps what I'm not making clear is the fact that my orientation (not to mention my career) centers around embedded control. Everything I make is intended to live inside something else, or else inside its own tiny box. A PC would be an albatross in such a setting. It is too big, consumes too much power, takes too long to boot, has too many modes of failure, and has too low of an MTBF because of the high component and interconnection counts, heat, G-force susceptibility, and other factors. I presume you can see all of that. For the occasional situation (and it is very infrequent for me) that I need to make a PC-like box do something unique for my needs, my inclination is to use whatever language that box already offers. If it's a Linux box, I will use gcc every time. Why not? It's 'there,' it's free, it has all the library support for the hardware. > I'm still not clear on why you *are* using Forth on embedded targets. > Are you saying you don't want to use a PC for development work? Not if I don't have to. A big reason for using Forth is quite simply to get away from Big Computers and Big Computing. I've already stated at length what I don't like about the approach used by IAR, Kiel, CrossWorks, CodeComposer, etc. (A 2GB installation and a $500 JTAG pod to program a 32KB embedded controller in C? Are you kidding!?) But above and beyond that, resident Forth on an embedded controller makes product support easier, too. The box can be serviced, updated, or enhanced in situ. Less downtime. Happier customers. > Ok, > that's fine, but as Elizabeth pointed out PCs are very good development > platforms in many ways. Indubitably. They sell a few of them, don't they? :) > If you prefer your propeller as a development > system, good for you. It truly is all I need for now. Access is instant. It is totally immune to viruses and spyware. I never have mysterious slow-downs while, apparently, MS, Adobe, or Oracle is trying to download fixes or updates. The machine doesn't get slower every year. Embedded Forth development is practically the only opportunity I have to get away from the juggernaut. And that is VERY refreshing.
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 13:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <75dff0d6-9aba-4b3f-afb5-a9a129ec434f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30920 |
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:20:40 PM UTC-4, David J wrote: > > I can't really follow your line of reasoning. I guess you are saying in > > > the past you didn't use Forth because you were afraid of messing up your > > > PC. > > > > Yes. Correct. > > > > > Now you won't use it on the PC because you prefer other languages. > > > > It is not that I refuse to put Forth on a PC. It is that I don't have the need or desire. Perhaps what I'm not making clear is the fact that my orientation (not to mention my career) centers around embedded control. Everything I make is intended to live inside something else, or else inside its own tiny box. > > > > A PC would be an albatross in such a setting. It is too big, consumes too much power, takes too long to boot, has too many modes of failure, and has too low of an MTBF because of the high component and interconnection counts, heat, G-force susceptibility, and other factors. I presume you can see all of that. > > > > For the occasional situation (and it is very infrequent for me) that I need to make a PC-like box do something unique for my needs, my inclination is to use whatever language that box already offers. If it's a Linux box, I will use gcc every time. Why not? It's 'there,' it's free, it has all the library support for the hardware. > > > > > I'm still not clear on why you *are* using Forth on embedded targets. > > > Are you saying you don't want to use a PC for development work? > > > > Not if I don't have to. A big reason for using Forth is quite simply to get away from Big Computers and Big Computing. I've already stated at length what I don't like about the approach used by IAR, Kiel, CrossWorks, CodeComposer, etc. (A 2GB installation and a $500 JTAG pod to program a 32KB embedded controller in C? Are you kidding!?) > > > > But above and beyond that, resident Forth on an embedded controller makes product support easier, too. The box can be serviced, updated, or enhanced in situ. Less downtime. Happier customers. > > > > > Ok, > > > that's fine, but as Elizabeth pointed out PCs are very good development > > > platforms in many ways. > > > > Indubitably. They sell a few of them, don't they? :) > > > > > If you prefer your propeller as a development > > > system, good for you. > > > > It truly is all I need for now. Access is instant. It is totally immune to viruses and spyware. I never have mysterious slow-downs while, apparently, MS, Adobe, or Oracle is trying to download fixes or updates. The machine doesn't get slower every year. > > > > Embedded Forth development is practically the only opportunity I have to get away from the juggernaut. And that is VERY refreshing. David, I am sure I totally understand what you are meaning and speaking about. When got in contact with microprocessors forty years ago, at first I had an 6800 development board, but I couldn't do anything with it because it needed an ASR Teletype which I couldn't afford. So I started a year later with MOS TECHNOLOGY's KIM, it had everything needed on one board: the microprocessor, peripheral ICs, a seven-segment display for address and data, a hex keypad for programming, and a tape interface for storage. Programming was done using the ROM Monitor program. By the way, there I learned how easy it is to destroy the just typed program by having typed a wrong command: after start every byte of RAM contained "20". That helped me learn to be careful when programming. The next step was the ESCOM, a KIM clone on two Euro-size boards, the microprocessor part on a board for production, and the monitor part as an add-on while developing. I always worked in the system, making work much easier then using a development system, which wasn't easy to use, and very expensive, too, and I heard all these stories about problems other people had. People who used an Apple II as development system could only develop target programs up to 2kB, because all the overhead the system needed, and the written documentation, of course. I wrote a database system which was 12kB - people told me that wouldn't be possible with pencil, paper, and a hex Monitor. Then came Forth, and the first Forth board I had was Rockwell's RSC-Forth, and it had a floppy interface and a serial interface. So, instead of using the Monitor board, I used a CRT terminal and a floppy controller board which was part of the system which I had to develop - when done, EPROM's had to be burned, the floppy controller had to be removed, and the work was done. Later, when I got my first PC, I used a PC instead of the CRT terminal, and instead of the floppy I stored data on the PC. This was more convenient, but much slower then the in system version. Now the time is there, that neither CRT terminal nor PC is needed, because microprocessors are that fast that they can directly deal with a LCD, and for storage only a SD card is needed. So I totally understand that you like to work inside the system. I would like to do the same. So, at the end I have a question: Are you offering or publishing your system so others can do the same?
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| From | David J <skamolex@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 17:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <36de117c-3ea5-4380-bce8-05bb2e6f38e3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30926 |
> Now the time is there, that neither CRT terminal nor PC is needed, > because microprocessors are that fast that they can directly deal > with a LCD, and for storage only a SD card is needed. > So I totally understand that you like to work inside the system. > I would like to do the same. > So, at the end I have a question: > Are you offering or publishing your system so others can do the same? Well, the good news is that most of it is already published. Most of the modules were written by others and posted to the Parallax repository under an MIT license. All I'm doing is putting them together and adding a simple editor. Nevertheless, at some point I'll be happy to share the details and my portion of the body of code to anyone who is interested. BTW, that was a very interesting history! I have at least a passing familiarity with most of the hardware you mentioned. Even though I was a 6502 fan, I associated with a guy in Bend, Oregon, a former Tektronix employee, who sold a Z-80 based SBC and published a magazine about it called Micro Corucopia. Did you ever hear of that? A bunch of folks on the Parallax forum use the Propeller to emulate old processors. You can put together a complete CP/M machine with a Propeller. The chip emulates the CPU as well as the disk controller and display driver. Fun times!
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 19:13 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8a7b8404-b32f-4119-b39a-6f9498da2823@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30932 |
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:54:52 PM UTC-4, David J wrote: > > Now the time is there, that neither CRT terminal nor PC is needed, > > > because microprocessors are that fast that they can directly deal > > > with a LCD, and for storage only a SD card is needed. > > > So I totally understand that you like to work inside the system. > > > I would like to do the same. > > > So, at the end I have a question: > > > Are you offering or publishing your system so others can do the same? > > > > Well, the good news is that most of it is already published. Most of the modules were written by others and posted to the Parallax repository under an MIT license. All I'm doing is putting them together and adding a simple editor. Nevertheless, at some point I'll be happy to share the details and my portion of the body of code to anyone who is interested. > > > > BTW, that was a very interesting history! I have at least a passing familiarity with most of the hardware you mentioned. Even though I was a 6502 fan, I associated with a guy in Bend, Oregon, a former Tektronix employee, who sold a Z-80 based SBC and published a magazine about it called Micro Corucopia. Did you ever hear of that? A bunch of folks on the Parallax forum use the Propeller to emulate old processors. You can put together a complete CP/M machine with a Propeller. The chip emulates the CPU as well as the disk controller and display driver. Fun times! David, since you are the expert, so to speak, please let me know if there is a book or a tutorial available about this Parallax system you are using. For me starting a Parallax project would be a daunting task, but with a "how to do" leaflet I may be able to try. "The chip emulates the CPU as well as the disk controller and display driver" sounds impressive!
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-28 23:17 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lm68s9$3kk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30937 |
On 5/28/2014 10:13 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > > For me starting a Parallax project would be a daunting task, but with a "how to do" leaflet I may be able to try. "The chip emulates the CPU as well as the disk controller and display driver" sounds impressive! I'm no expert on the Propeller, but my understanding is that it is 8 CPUs on one die joined by a shared memory with enough bandwidth for all CPUs to access it without contention. If I remember correctly, this chip has no peripherals (or very few) and even no interrupts. The idea is vaguely similar to the GA144 in that CPUs are used to emulate in software the various peripherals you might have in hardware. Since you can dedicate a CPU to emulate a peripheral device, they figure interrupts are not needed, the CPU can poll. As I said, I am no expert, but I can't see any reason why this chip would be better at emulating an old CPU than any other device. In fact, I expect an FPGA is a much better approach to outdated hardware emulation as it could run much faster than either the original hardware or software emulation. I would suggest that this was a niche application that got a ball rolling using the Propeller and just continued to gain momentum because it was there rather than an inherent advantage of the Propeller architecture. I think I have made this offer before. If you ever want to start a hardware oriented project or need some hardware to facilitate a software focused project, I am happy to collaborate. Currently I have one item on my plate (which I have not been working very hard to deal with). Otherwise I am pretty free to start a new project. -- Rick
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 11:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d99a25cc-7e07-48e6-be87-b020582739c4@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30939 |
On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 11:17:23 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: > I think I have made this offer before. If you ever want to start a > hardware oriented project or need some hardware to facilitate a software > focused project, I am happy to collaborate. Currently I have one item > on my plate (which I have not been working very hard to deal with). > Otherwise I am pretty free to start a new project. Thanks for your offer, Rick! Since a while I am thinking about a little "MSP430-Stamp" with a minimum on parts, only some LEDs, a connector for extensions, and an audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. Would be great if it could be sold for 4$ as a kit. Juergen from the "Forth Enthusiasts" group had this idea. But looking at the results of "Go Forth and Prosper" I am not sure if this is a good idea.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 11:51 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xfvjs2zav.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30954 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > Since a while I am thinking about a little "MSP430-Stamp" with a > minimum on parts, only some LEDs, a connector for extensions, and an > audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. Would be great if it > could be sold for 4$ as a kit. Juergen from the "Forth Enthusiasts" > group had this idea. But looking at the results of "Go Forth and > Prosper" I am not sure if this is a good idea. 1. The concern about Simon's board is valid but the main initial problem with that board was that it wasn't sufficiently differentiated from other boards. If you can differentiate yours, it might be worthwhile. 2. It would certainly be nice to have another tiny, low priced board. femtoduino.com recently jacked up its prices and the rfduino is a bit specialized. 3. If you want to run a resident Forth though, I think you should use a bigger chip than the one in the DIP Launchpad. One with FRAM would be interesting and different and it would be ok if it increased the price a little. 4. It might also be interesting to support a tethered Forth like maybe Froth (http://fvm430.sourceforge.net/) which could support smaller cpu's. At that point though, the different small ATtiny-85 boards like the Digispark become interesting targets and another board isn't needed. 5. There are also potentially other cpus of interest like the mips32, which are potentially good Forth platforms and very inexpensive. I just noticed there's a new Digispark Pro in the works: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digistump/digispark-pro-tiny-arduino-ready-mobile-and-usb-de?ref=sparkupdate I can't quite tell but it looks like they're getting a new chip made (that will presumably become a commodity part), maybe something like an ATTiny85 with more program flash (16k).
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 13:01 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2ebf3188-1e10-4748-9016-dc6832352ab1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30955 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 2:51:52 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > visualforth.com writes: > > > Since a while I am thinking about a little "MSP430-Stamp" with a > > > minimum on parts, only some LEDs, a connector for extensions, and an > > > audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. Would be great if it > > > could be sold for 4$ as a kit. Juergen from the "Forth Enthusiasts" > > > group had this idea. But looking at the results of "Go Forth and > > > Prosper" I am not sure if this is a good idea. > > > > 1. The concern about Simon's board is valid but the main initial problem > > with that board was that it wasn't sufficiently differentiated from > > other boards. If you can differentiate yours, it might be worthwhile. > > > > 2. It would certainly be nice to have another tiny, low priced board. > > femtoduino.com recently jacked up its prices and the rfduino is a bit > > specialized. > > > > 3. If you want to run a resident Forth though, I think you should use a > > bigger chip than the one in the DIP Launchpad. One with FRAM would be > > interesting and different and it would be ok if it increased the price a > > little. > > > > 4. It might also be interesting to support a tethered Forth like maybe > > Froth (http://fvm430.sourceforge.net/) which could support smaller > > cpu's. At that point though, the different small ATtiny-85 boards > > like the Digispark become interesting targets and another board isn't needed. > > > > 5. There are also potentially other cpus of interest like the mips32, > > which are potentially good Forth platforms and very inexpensive. > > > > I just noticed there's a new Digispark Pro in the works: > > > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digistump/digispark-pro-tiny-arduino-ready-mobile-and-usb-de?ref=sparkupdate > > > > I can't quite tell but it looks like they're getting a new chip made > > (that will presumably become a commodity part), maybe something like an > > ATTiny85 with more program flash (16k). Paul, Thanks for your overwhelming list! FVM430 is under construction, and there is no timeline - but Digispark is really interesting. They started on Kickstarter with a 10,000$ goal and got more than 100,000$. I guess this is because of Arduino's popularity and because they have a full range of boards: https://digistump.com - and it seems they have some experience with kickstarter: "Fresh from its successful Kickstarter campaign - we are pleased to carry the DigiPixel - LED Game Shield!" Three years ago I tried to get people interested in Forth on the Maximite, which is an Australian board with a PIC32 micro aka mips32, and the only result I see that time is running. I would prefer a DIL micro, which would be the MSP430G2553, because it can be sold as a kit - I do not have any access to SMT. And there is the FCC part 15b which is expensive. Thanks for all your suggestions! Dirk.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 13:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xk39472n2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30958 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > I would prefer a DIL micro, which would be the MSP430G2553, because it > can be sold as a kit - I do not have any access to SMT. And there is > the FCC part 15b which is expensive. SMT isn't that big a deal. Part 15b is only for consumer stuff, I thought, but hardware folks would know more about that than me. The original Digispark is a nice little board with too little program memory to run a good Forth. I like its form factor better than the new one, which resembles the Adafruit Trinket. I don't see much point to a DIL kit with a PC board. If I'm going to buy a board from someone I'd rather have it already assembled, so they can use equipment I can't easily access, i.e. very small SMT stuff. Anyway the DIL MSP430 Launchpad still exists even if they've increased the price. If the idea is to sell someone a bag of parts with a DIL processor for the educational value of having them build it themselves, I'd say use a solderless breadboard instead of a PCB. That increases the cost but it gives a nice re-usable piece of gear and much more flexibility as they can put different kinds of stuff on it. One thing I'd really like is a cheap numeric display, LCD or LED. Like this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12710 Or more expensively: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10168 One or two of those on the breadboard with the G2553 would be much more interesting than blinky leds.
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 13:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e0b99834-7331-40f1-a0ef-9a87ff3dcaaa@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30960 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:26:09 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > One thing I'd really like is a cheap numeric display, LCD or LED. > Like this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12710 I didn't know that these tiny segment displays still exist. They look like the ones which came with Rockwell's AIM65. > One or two of those on the breadboard with the G2553 would be much more > interesting than blinky leds. Depends on the viewer ... Thanks for all your recommendations, Paul! Looks like you are really interested in doing such a project. Now we need a sparking idea for a nice gadget which works pretty with Forth and Makers will like. Decades ago there was a neat gadget: a text display with only a few LEDs in a coulomb on a saw blade - when brought to oscillation, it showed a text. This was part of a programming competition in Germany.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 14:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xfvjswb62.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30961 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > Decades ago there was a neat gadget: a text display with only a few > LEDs in a coulomb It took me a minute to figure out you meant "column" there, since coulomb is a unit of electrical charge, so I thought it had something to do with capacitors ;-) > on a saw blade - when brought to oscillation, it showed a text. This > was part of a programming competition in Germany. I've seen a few things like that ... searching for "spinning led text display" immediately found this: http://technabob.com/blog/2007/06/23/spinning-led-clock-uses-image-persistence-to-tell-time/
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 14:45 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a8e17e66-4598-4a93-8ef9-f558b9178436@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30962 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:02:45 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > visualforth.com writes: > > > Decades ago there was a neat gadget: a text display with only a few > > > LEDs in a coulomb > > > > It took me a minute to figure out you meant "column" there, since > > coulomb is a unit of electrical charge, so I thought it had something to > > do with capacitors ;-) > > > > > on a saw blade - when brought to oscillation, it showed a text. This > > > was part of a programming competition in Germany. > > > > I've seen a few things like that ... searching for "spinning led text > > display" immediately found this: > > > > http://technabob.com/blog/2007/06/23/spinning-led-clock-uses-image-persistence-to-tell-time/ Thanks for correcting my wrong spelling. I didn't find out how to convince the autospeller that coloumn is the right word, but the autospeller didn't complain about coulomb. I should have used a dictionary instead of convincing the autospeller (it doesn't like autospeller either, but I guess this time you recognize immediately what I am speaking about. Thanks for your research! Looks awesome. And there are more, like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQIjhbBFSE As I said: I see that time is running.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 14:37 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xr43cfeqa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30961 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > Thanks for all your recommendations, Paul! > Looks like you are really interested in doing such a project. Not really personally interested though I guess I'd buy one if it became available. I notice that the MSP430G2744 is supposedly available in PDIP-40 package in sample quantity per the data sheet: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/msp430g2744.pdf This part has 32KB+256B of flash memory and 1K of Ram and it is a value line part, priced comparably to the G2553 and maybe more software compatible than the other MSP430 lines. There are a couple of even bigger Value Line parts that are available only in SMT packages. I don't understand why they don't offer DIP20 for all these parts. > Now we need a sparking idea for a nice gadget which works pretty with > Forth and Makers will like. A preprogrammed, standalone Forth computer sounds like it would satisfy some desires aronud here. No downloads, no PC installation, just plug it into a USB port, run a terminal emulator and get an OK prompt.
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 15:05 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <40eb7490-d4ec-49ca-910d-6e083b37e282@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30963 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:37:49 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > I notice that the MSP430G2744 is supposedly available in PDIP-40 package > in sample quantity per the data sheet: > http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/msp430g2744.pdf > This part has 32KB+256B of flash memory and 1K of Ram and it is a value > line part, priced comparably to the G2553 and maybe more software > compatible than the other MSP430 lines. Thanks for finding this interesting DIL-MSP. I've never seen it before! Seems to be this is only available as QFP or at Olimex: https://www.olimex.com/Products/MSP430/Booster/MSP430-G2744BP/ > There are a couple of even bigger Value Line parts that are available > only in SMT packages. I don't understand why they don't offer DIP20 for > all these parts. Me neither. > A preprogrammed, standalone Forth computer sounds like it would satisfy > some desires around here. No downloads, no PC installation, just plug > it into a USB port, run a terminal emulator and get an OK prompt. That's already there: TI's G2 LaunchPad. The only difference is that you need the 4E4th-IDE as terminal emulator and some buttons to click to get an OK prompt. For now I stay with my work improving the 4E4th-IDE. Suggestions welcome. Soon the source code will be available at http://www.4e4th-ide.org/ Cheers, Dirk.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 15:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xd2ewjjyn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30966 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: >> some desires around here. No downloads, no PC installation, just plug >> it into a USB port, run a terminal emulator and get an OK prompt. > That's already there: TI's G2 LaunchPad. > The only difference is that you need the 4E4th-IDE as terminal > emulator and some buttons to click to get an OK prompt. Really, "no downloads" means what it says, it has to work with the tty emulator already included with whatever OS you're using. I'm not interested in running Wine or any Windows programs.
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 15:50 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <eff4daae-7616-43d4-8127-f65e367d69ca@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30967 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:31:12 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > > >> some desires around here. No downloads, no PC installation, just plug > > >> it into a USB port, run a terminal emulator and get an OK prompt. > > > That's already there: TI's G2 LaunchPad. > > > The only difference is that you need the 4E4th-IDE as terminal > > > emulator and some buttons to click to get an OK prompt. > > > > Really, "no downloads" means what it says, it has to work with the tty > > emulator already included with whatever OS you're using. I'm not > > interested in running Wine or any Windows programs. Sorry, that won't work with TI's LaunchPads, with none of them. They all need a special USB driver, and the 4E4th-IDE provides this. So, the only opportunity for you to get such a board with the MSP430, we have to make our own, as I wrote before: a little "MSP430-Stamp" with a minimum on parts, only some LEDs, an LCD, a connector for extensions, and an audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. But you need to download and install the FTDI-USB driver anyway IIRC (may be I am wrong). But I can offer you a R6511AQ board with RS232 - 32k RAM, 32k EPROM with RSC-Forth on board, ready to go, only needs a 5V/1A supply. Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards available where you don't need to install a USB driver?
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