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post your solution to this problem

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  post your solution to this problem quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-03 14:33 -0700
    Re: post your solution to this problem "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-06-03 20:59 -0400
      Re: post your solution to this problem quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-03 19:06 -0700
        Re: post your solution to this problem "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-06-03 18:27 -1000
      Re: post your solution to this problem quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-03 19:49 -0700
        Re: post your solution to this problem "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-06-03 18:28 -1000
          DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-03 22:22 -0700
            Re: DSP question (software modem) Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-06-04 02:19 -0700
              Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-04 03:07 -0700
            Re: DSP question (software modem) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-06-04 04:32 -0500
              Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-04 03:15 -0700
                Re: DSP question (software modem) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-06-04 05:46 -0500
                  Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-04 12:16 -0700
                    Re: DSP question (software modem) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-06-04 14:55 -0500
                      Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-04 13:32 -0700
                        Re: DSP question (software modem) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-06-07 05:20 -0500
                          Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-07 10:01 -0700
                            Re: DSP question (software modem) quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 11:04 -0700
                            Re: DSP question (software modem) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-06-07 17:21 -0500
                              Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-07 20:36 -0700
                                Re: DSP question (software modem) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-06-08 02:36 -0400
                                  Re: post your solution, and don't over write my thread, or I'll do something to Paul Rubbin quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 23:55 -0700
                                    Re: post your solution, and don't over write my thread ... BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-06-08 09:56 -0700
                                Re: DSP question (software modem) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-06-08 07:52 -0500
                                  Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-08 11:14 -0700
                                    Re: DSP question (software modem) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-06-08 16:29 -0400
                                      Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-08 19:59 -0700
                                        Re: DSP question (software modem) Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2012-06-08 22:37 -0500
                                    Re: DSP question (software modem) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-06-09 04:36 -0500
                                      Re: DSP question (software modem) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-09 09:41 -0700
                    Re: post your solution and Paul rubin is a stinker for changing it, you bugger paul!! quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-06 15:52 -0700
                      Re: post your solution and Paul rubin is a stinker for changing it, you bugger paul!! BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-06-06 16:09 -0700
                        Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 11:02 -0700
                          Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-06-07 08:28 -1000
                            Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 23:58 -0700
                          Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-06-07 11:53 -0700
                            Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 23:54 -0700
                            Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-08 00:00 -0700
                              Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-06-08 10:08 -0700
                            [OT] About cancellation of quiet_lad's messages, was Re: post your .... of your own instead Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-06-08 11:34 +0000
                          Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-06-08 10:03 -0700
                      Re: post your solution and Paul rubin is a stinker for changing it, you bugger paul!! "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> - 2012-06-06 19:28 -0400
                        This thread is a load of s**t Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-06-07 00:54 -0700
                        Re: post your solution and Paul rubin is a stinker for changing it, you bugger paul!! quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 11:03 -0700
                          Re: post your solution quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-07 11:10 -0700
            Re: DSP question (software modem) Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2012-06-04 07:08 -0500
    Re: post your solution to this problem John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-06-04 09:06 -0700
      Re: post your solution to this problem quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-06 15:51 -0700
        Re: post your solution to this problem "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-08 16:12 +0000
        Re: post your solution to this problem "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-09 16:15 +0000
    Re: post your solution to this problem BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-06-08 10:15 -0700

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#12770 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

"Paul Rubin" <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:7x7gvi1nlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
>
> Thanks--though I was asking more about modulation methods for sending
> bits over an analog channel.  That Wikipedia article is good, but mostly
> about dealing with the channel as already digital.
>

Are you asking for something to read?  ...

(It's really quite amazing as to how much information
these Wikipedia pages capture.)

The modem page lists the protocols that have been used in modems from early
to modern, for telephone to broadband to mobile.  PSK and QAM variations are
most commonly used.

Analog modulation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sideband_modulation

Digital modulation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude-shift_keying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_phase_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-shift_keying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_frequency-shift_keying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum-shift_keying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-off_keying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-position_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_shift_keying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-carrier_FDMA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trellis_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal_frequency-division_multiplexing

Spread Spectrum:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirp_spread_spectrum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-sequence_spread_spectrum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-hopping_spread_spectrum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-hopping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_division_multiple_access
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_division_multiple_access

Pulse modulation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-position_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-amplitude_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

Floppy and hard drive related:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Code_Recording
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Frequency_Modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-length_limited
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoned_bit_recording
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_Angular_Velocity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_linear_velocity

etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_level
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-clocking_signal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error-correcting_code
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_disc_drive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk_drive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_modem


Rod Pemberton

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#12773 — Re: post your solution, and don't over write my thread, or I'll do something to Paul Rubbin

On Jun 7, 11:36 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notemailntt.cmm>
wrote:
> "Paul Rubin" <no.em...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:7x7gvi1nlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
>
>
>
> > Thanks--though I was asking more about modulation methods for sending
> > bits over an analog channel.  That Wikipedia article is good, but mostly
> > about dealing with the channel as already digital.
>
> Are you asking for something to read?  ...
>
> (It's really quite amazing as to how much information
> these Wikipedia pages capture.)
>
> The modem page lists the protocols that have been used in modems from early
> to modern, for telephone to broadband to mobile.  PSK and QAM variations are
> most commonly used.
>
> Analog modulation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-sideband_modulation
>
> Digital modulation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude-shift_keyinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_phase_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-shift_keyinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_frequency-shift_keyinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum-shift_keyinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-off_keyinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-position_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_shift_keyinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-carrier_FDMAhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trellis_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal_frequency-division_multiplexing
>
> Spread Spectrum:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirp_spread_spectrumhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-sequence_spread_spectrumhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency-hopping_spread_spectrumhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-hoppinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_division_multiple_accesshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_division_multiple_access
>
> Pulse modulation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-position_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-amplitude_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-code_modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
>
> Floppy and hard drive related:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Code_Recordinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Frequency_Modulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-length_limitedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zerohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoned_bit_recordinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_Angular_Velocityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_linear_velocity
>
> etc.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_levelhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-clocking_signalhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error-correcting_codehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modemhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_disc_drivehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk_drivehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_diskhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drivehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_modem
>
> Rod Pemberton

own thread gents!

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#12797 — Re: post your solution, and don't over write my thread ...

On Jun 8, 2:55 am, quiet_lad <gavcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> own thread gents!

Everybody knows that nobody owns a USENET "thread".

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#12793 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>> Is there a good book or url that discusses this stuff?  Thanks.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_coding
> 
> Thanks--though I was asking more about modulation methods for
> sending bits over an analog channel.  That Wikipedia article is
> good, but mostly about dealing with the channel as already digital.

All physical channels are analog.  What else are you looking for?

Andrew.

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#12801 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
> All physical channels are analog.  What else are you looking for?

How to convert sequences of a/d samples into bits, and vice versa,
taking the actual characteristics of the analog channel (in this case
that it is presumably ac coupled) into account.  The "Line code" article
seems to be about the case where each sample is either a 1 or a 0,
rather than an 8-bit number approximating a continuous quantity.

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#12805 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

"Paul Rubin" <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:7xd3591xin.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
> > All physical channels are analog.  What else are you looking for?
>
> How to convert sequences of a/d samples into bits, and vice versa,
> taking the actual characteristics of the analog channel (in this case
> that it is presumably ac coupled) into account.  The "Line code" article
> seems to be about the case where each sample is either a 1 or a 0,
> rather than an 8-bit number approximating a continuous quantity.
>

Analog-to-Digital converter (ADC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter

Digital-to-Analog converter (DAC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter


If you haven't been around for a while, you're probably unaware of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_ADC

There are also Flash DACs.  IIRC, the original Amiga's used one with high
precision resistors for their video output (12-bits as 3 channels of
4-bits).  You'll also find old articles in magazines like Radio Electronics
that use them.  Back then, ADCs and DACs were expensive, rare, and weren't
very fast.

R-2R ladder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor_ladder

discrete R-2R DACs
http://www.sonicillusions.co.uk/discrete_dac.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-vUg7h0lpE

Originally, a Flash DAC/ADC was a discrete analog circuit, a non-integrated
circuit, which handled DAC/ADC conversion.  They were based on series
resistor arrays.  They're called "flash" because they could handle high
speed conversion before ICs of the era were capable of those higher speeds
(1980's), and were and still are cheap.  They're not as precise as IC based
circuits.  They depend on the precision of the resistors.  Today, ICs can
handle very high speeds, so Flash circuits aren't really needed, but they
can be a cheap solution for hobby projects.  The Amiga's managed to get
video speeds (early computer video).  So, today, low-end video and audio
should be doable with one, maybe upto 4 to 6Mhz (guess).  IIRC, NTSC had a
4.5Mhz bandwidth.  Such a flash DAC might be able to go higher or be
somewhat lower, but that's alot of bandwidth, unless you're doing something
extreme, i.e., modern.


Rod Pemberton

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#12818 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

"Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm> writes:
> Analog-to-Digital converter (ADC)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter

Rod, I appreciate your helpful spirit, but the WP articles that you're
citing aren't really anything like what I'm looking for.  The workings
of a/d hardware aren't an issue because the chip has built-in
converters.  I'm trying to figure out what to do AFTER the a/d
conversion.  I also know my way around Wikipedia pretty well and can
usually find clusters of articles in it myself without much trouble,
though it's often useful to get a pointer to a specific article on a
particular topic if that topic is relevant.  

In this particular case I was hoping to find a general overview of
modulation techniques for sending bits over analog channels, i.e. that
explains the different modem implementation schemes that have come up in
this thread, so (for example) I could better understand the types of
issues Andrew was mentioning regarding FSK decoding.

I've located some OCW lectures on data communication that are the sort
of thing I had in mind, though maybe I was hoping to concentrate at
first on simpler schemes suitable for microcontrollers.  Anyway, this is
a start:

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-450-principles-of-digital-communication-i-fall-2009/

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-451-principles-of-digital-communication-ii-spring-2005/

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#12820 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Rod Pemberton"<do_not_have@notemailntt.cmm>  writes:
>> Analog-to-Digital converter (ADC)
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog-to-digital_converter
>
> Rod, I appreciate your helpful spirit, but the WP articles that you're
> citing aren't really anything like what I'm looking for.  The workings
> of a/d hardware aren't an issue because the chip has built-in
> converters.  I'm trying to figure out what to do AFTER the a/d
> conversion.  I also know my way around Wikipedia pretty well and can
> usually find clusters of articles in it myself without much trouble,
> though it's often useful to get a pointer to a specific article on a
> particular topic if that topic is relevant.
>
> In this particular case I was hoping to find a general overview of
> modulation techniques for sending bits over analog channels, i.e. that
> explains the different modem implementation schemes that have come up in
> this thread, so (for example) I could better understand the types of
> issues Andrew was mentioning regarding FSK decoding.
>
> I've located some OCW lectures on data communication that are the sort
> of thing I had in mind, though maybe I was hoping to concentrate at
> first on simpler schemes suitable for microcontrollers.  Anyway, this is
> a start:
>
> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-450-principles-of-digital-communication-i-fall-2009/
>
> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-451-principles-of-digital-communication-ii-spring-2005/
>

Checked with folks at comp.dsp ?

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#12824 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>> All physical channels are analog.  What else are you looking for?
> 
> How to convert sequences of a/d samples into bits, and vice versa,
> taking the actual characteristics of the analog channel (in this case
> that it is presumably ac coupled) into account.  The "Line code" article
> seems to be about the case where each sample is either a 1 or a 0,
> rather than an 8-bit number approximating a continuous quantity.

But I thought you only needed a low bit rate: there's no need for
fancy modulation, as discussed.  All you need is a DC-free code.

Andrew.

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#12829 — Re: DSP question (software modem)

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
> But I thought you only needed a low bit rate: there's no need for
> fancy modulation, as discussed.  All you need is a DC-free code.

Oh, I see.  Yeah that makes sense.  I'll try implementing some of those
line codes.  Obviously there are applications for higher bit rates as
well, but this can get me started.  Thanks.

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#12739 — Re: post your solution and Paul rubin is a stinker for changing it, you bugger paul!!

On Jun 4, 12:16 pm, Paul Rubin <no.em...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andre...@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
> >> I don't understand about group codes--they are ECC codes, right?
> > No.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_code_recording
>
> Oh, this makes much more sense.
>
> > All you have to do is poll the line at a regular frequency and look
> > for transitions.  A software DPLL locks onto the stream.
>
> I will have to think about this to figure out how to do it, but the
> hint is very helpful, thanks.
>
> > The old phone modems used FSK because it's easy to do with tuned
> > analog filters.
>
> It occurs to me, they could have used PLL's rather than filters?  Maybe
> the same thing can be done in software using on-chip timers as "VCO"'s.
> I.e. rather than sample at a regular rate, adjust the sample rate using
> a "phase detector".  That may get rid of all the multiplication.
>
> > If you're going to use that much computer power you could use QAM or
> > even a trellis code, but AFAICS you really don't need that much speed.
>
> Of course there will always be uses for more speed, but slow is fine for
> getting started ;-).
>
> Per Richard Owlett's suggestion I just looked at some articles about
> microcomputer audio cassette formats (e.g. Kansas City Standard).  They
> seemed to rely on external hardware (analog electronics I guess).

die die die paul

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#12745 — Re: post your solution and Paul rubin is a stinker for changing it, you bugger paul!!

On Jun 6, 6:52 pm, quiet_lad <gavcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> die die die paul

You wanted to know how to edit the subject so you could throw a
childish temper tantrum?

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#12757 — Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead

On Jun 6, 4:09 pm, BruceMcF <agil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On Jun 6, 6:52 pm, quiet_lad <gavcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > die die die paul
>
> You wanted to know how to edit the subject so you could throw a
> childish temper tantrum?

On the contrary, I resent my thread being hijacked into a modem
discussion that is unrelated.  Imagine someone did that to your thread.

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#12759 — Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead

On 6/7/12 8:02 AM, quiet_lad wrote:
> On Jun 6, 4:09 pm, BruceMcF<agil...@netscape.net>  wrote:
>> On Jun 6, 6:52 pm, quiet_lad<gavcom...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> die die die paul
>>
>> You wanted to know how to edit the subject so you could throw a
>> childish temper tantrum?
>
> On the contrary, I resent my thread being hijacked into a modem
> discussion that is unrelated.  Imagine someone did that to your thread.

Well, that's life on the internet. I am active on several discussion 
boards, and "thread creep" (when a discussion on one subject turns to 
another) is a fact of life.

As we have tried repeatedly to explain to you, a lot of your initial 
subjects are either so general or so off-topic that we cannot follow 
them, and occasionally someone says something that makes a more popular 
discussion break out. In that case, a change of subject line is 
appropriate and helpful to everyone.

No one can "own" an internet discussion. Once you've made your initial 
post the discussion will have a life of its own. Don't take it personally.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#12775 — Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead

On Jun 7, 11:28 am, "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erat...@forth.com> wrote:
> On 6/7/12 8:02 AM, quiet_lad wrote:
>
> > On Jun 6, 4:09 pm, BruceMcF<agil...@netscape.net>  wrote:
> >> On Jun 6, 6:52 pm, quiet_lad<gavcom...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>> die die die paul
>
> >> You wanted to know how to edit the subject so you could throw a
> >> childish temper tantrum?
>
> > On the contrary, I resent my thread being hijacked into a modem
> > discussion that is unrelated.  Imagine someone did that to your thread.
>
> Well, that's life on the internet. I am active on several discussion
> boards, and "thread creep" (when a discussion on one subject turns to
> another) is a fact of life.
>
> As we have tried repeatedly to explain to you, a lot of your initial
> subjects are either so general or so off-topic that we cannot follow
> them, and occasionally someone says something that makes a more popular
> discussion break out. In that case, a change of subject line is
> appropriate and helpful to everyone.
>
> No one can "own" an internet discussion. Once you've made your initial
> post the discussion will have a life of its own. Don't take it personally.
>
> Cheers,
> Elizabeth
>
> --
> ==================================================
> Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
> FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
> 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
> Los Angeles, CA 90045http://www.forth.com
>
> "Forth-based products and Services for real-time
> applications since 1973."
> ==================================================

I think Paul knew what he was doing and is now trying to be funny.
I mean it's obvious.
I am a unix pro, I look at things from an operational perpective and
or entrepreneur perspective.  I admit I have a lot of reading and
learning to do.  Asking about how the pros/guru do it and if thier
opinion on how forth can be used for different thing would I thoght
lead to interesting intellecual discussions.  I find discussing ideas
very interesting.  Must be the wub in me. I am always amazed when
people somehow get upset its weird to me I don't see any call for it
atoll. I love discussing ideas.

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#12761 — Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead

quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> writes:
> On the contrary, I resent my thread being hijacked into a modem
> discussion that is unrelated.  Imagine someone did that to your thread.

It was by accident--I was trying to start a separate thread but I hit
"post new article" while the Shen post was still on my screen, so
apparently my news reader treated it as a followup post.  Unfortunately
I don't know how to undo the error.  Sorry about that.

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#12772 — Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead

On Jun 7, 11:53 am, Paul Rubin <no.em...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> quiet_lad <gavcom...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On the contrary, I resent my thread being hijacked into a modem
> > discussion that is unrelated.  Imagine someone did that to your thread.
>
> It was by accident--I was trying to start a separate thread but I hit
> "post new article" while the Shen post was still on my screen, so
> apparently my news reader treated it as a followup post.  Unfortunately
> I don't know how to undo the error.  Sorry about that.

I sense something..

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#12777 — Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead

On Jun 7, 11:53 am, Paul Rubin <no.em...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> quiet_lad <gavcom...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On the contrary, I resent my thread being hijacked into a modem
> > discussion that is unrelated.  Imagine someone did that to your thread.
>
> It was by accident--I was trying to start a separate thread but I hit
> "post new article" while the Shen post was still on my screen, so
> apparently my news reader treated it as a followup post.  Unfortunately
> I don't know how to undo the error.  Sorry about that.

naa I have decided you are doing it intentionally Paul and it is kinda
funny, because I was like hey were the hell did my thread go?  Now I
am sorta annoyed you changed it again.  I mean if I were in person Id
jsut beat you down but I can't since we are on the net.

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#12799 — Re: post your solution, please no one change subject, start new thread of your own instead

On Jun 8, 3:00 am, quiet_lad <gavcom...@gmail.com> wrote:
> because I was like hey were the hell did my thread
> go?
"where the hell"

What? It didn't go anywhere. Anybody replies to your original trolling
on the newsgroup will show up under the original subject line ~ maybe
with a Re: in front of the subject line.

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#12791 — [OT] About cancellation of quiet_lad's messages, was Re: post your .... of your own instead

In article <7xobov0x8a.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>,
Paul Rubin  <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> writes:
>> On the contrary, I resent my thread being hijacked into a modem
>> discussion that is unrelated.  Imagine someone did that to your thread.
>
>It was by accident--I was trying to start a separate thread but I hit
>"post new article" while the Shen post was still on my screen, so
>apparently my news reader treated it as a followup post.  Unfortunately
>I don't know how to undo the error.  Sorry about that.

You can cancel your own articles and resent them with the correct
subject line. The "cancel" option should be available in a decent
usenet reader.

In the situation that quiet_lad post some nonsense and other
people make sensible contributions about a different subject,
it would be good if quiet_lad cancels his original post.

As the administrator of a news server I have the power to
cancel a post of quiet_lad. This would be legal only if it was
clearly spam (e.g. promotion of Islam or Bollywood star porno.).

Cancellation worked better in the old days. Now you have probably
seen the message before the cancellation message reaches your
news server.

As an exercise I have edited the subject line to be political
correct. Note the [OT] "off topic" as this has nothing to do
with Forth.

Groetjes Albert

--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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