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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #135350 > unrolled thread

Getting the exponent of an x87 float

Started bydxf <dxforth@gmail.com>
First post2026-08-16 09:42 +1000
Last post2026-08-26 14:29 +0000
Articles 3 on this page of 103 — 8 participants

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  Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-16 09:42 +1000
    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-17 15:11 +0000
      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 03:47 +1000
        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-17 21:18 +0000
          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 12:15 +1000
            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-18 09:01 +0000
              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-18 20:04 +1000
                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-19 02:30 +1000
              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-18 09:16 -0500
                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-23 06:06 -0500
        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-18 17:55 +0000
          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-19 13:48 +1000
            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-19 17:14 +1000
              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-08-19 09:58 +0200
                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-19 19:14 +1000
                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-08-19 15:36 +0200
                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-20 12:36 +1000
            Floating point (was: Getting the exponent of an x87 float) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-19 08:38 +0000
    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-19 18:44 -0500
      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-20 12:35 +1000
        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-20 03:40 -0500
    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-08-22 18:43 +0200
      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-23 18:47 +1000
        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-23 14:34 -0500
          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-24 11:42 +1000
            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-23 22:11 -0500
              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-24 14:37 +1000
                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-24 06:42 +0000
                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-26 01:56 +1000
                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-25 16:24 +0000
                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-26 13:24 +1000
                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-25 23:26 -0500
                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-26 18:57 +1000
                            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-27 09:24 -0500
                              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 11:14 +1000
                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-08-28 10:23 +0000
                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 21:28 +1000
                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-28 09:04 -0500
                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-28 09:10 -0500
                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-28 14:17 +0000
                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-28 09:41 -0500
                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-08-28 19:40 +0200
                                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-28 14:00 -0500
                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-28 14:25 -0500
                                            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-28 14:40 -0500
                                              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-08-29 12:17 +0200
                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-29 10:35 +0000
                                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-08-29 15:02 +0200
                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-08-29 15:51 +0200
                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-29 14:45 +0000
                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-29 14:50 -0500
                                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-29 15:01 -0500
                                                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-08-29 23:26 +0200
                                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-29 17:16 -0500
                                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-03 10:56 +1000
                                                            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-09-03 11:52 +0200
                                                              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-03 21:00 +1000
                                                            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-03 06:49 -0500
                                                              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-03 22:56 +1000
                                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-03 09:02 -0500
                                                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-04 11:31 +1000
                                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-04 13:50 -0500
                                                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 12:22 +1000
                                                                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-05 08:59 -0500
                                                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 02:49 +1000
                                                                            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-05 18:20 -0500
                                                                              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 12:40 +1000
                                                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-06 18:57 +1000
                                                                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-06 07:36 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-06 07:42 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 11:00 +1000
                                                                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-06 21:16 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-09-07 08:45 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 21:11 +1000
                                                                                            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-09-07 21:30 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-07 19:09 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-09-08 14:06 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-08 12:14 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-09-09 02:15 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 14:41 +1000
                                                                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 19:31 +1000
                                                                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-08 05:30 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-08 05:44 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 23:10 +1000
                                                                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 01:03 +1000
                                                                                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-08 20:49 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 13:31 +1000
                                                                                                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-09 20:02 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 12:46 +1000
                                                                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-07 17:21 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-07 22:13 -0500
                                                                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-05 21:27 -0500
                                                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-09-05 21:55 -0500
                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-29 07:38 -0500
                                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-30 11:12 +1000
                                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-29 13:18 -0500
                                Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-08-28 07:25 -0500
                                  Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 23:43 +1000
                                    Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-28 23:56 +1000
                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-08-27 12:38 +0200
                        Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-26 10:55 +0000
                          Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-08-26 22:55 +1000
                            Re: Getting the exponent of an x87 float anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-08-26 14:29 +0000

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#135434

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2026-08-26 10:55 +0000
Message-ID<2026Aug26.125504@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#135424
dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>E.EXACT is good for fooling people into believing a 64-bit
>float can hold a 66 digit number.

Not just that, a 64-bit float can hold a number that takes 757
characters (751 mantissa digits plus other characters) to represent
exactly in decimal representation:

4.940656458412465441765687928682213723650598026143247644255856825006755072702087518652998363616359923797965646954457177309266567103559397963987747960107818781263007131903114045278458171678489821036887186360569987307230500063874091535649843873124733972731696151400317153853980741262385655911710266585566867681870395603106249319452715914924553293054565444011274801297099995419319894090804165633245247571478690147267801593552386115501348035264934720193790268107107491703332226844753335720832431936092382893458368060106011506169809753078342277318329247904982524730776375927247874656084778203734469699533647017972677717585125660551199131504891101451037862738167250955837389733598993664809941164205702637090279242767544565229087538682506419718265533447265625e-324

The next number representable as IEEE 64-bit FP number, however, has
the exact decimal representation

9.88131291682493088353137585736442744730119605228649528851171365001351014540417503730599672723271984759593129390891435461853313420711879592797549592021563756252601426380622809055691634335697964207377437272113997461446100012774818307129968774624946794546339230280063430770796148252477131182342053317113373536374079120621249863890543182984910658610913088802254960259419999083863978818160833126649049514295738029453560318710477223100269607052986944038758053621421498340666445368950667144166486387218476578691673612021202301233961950615668455463665849580996504946155275185449574931216955640746893939906729403594535543517025132110239826300978220290207572547633450191167477946719798732961988232841140527418055848553508913045817507736501283943653106689453125e-324

So most people prefer to print these numbers as "5e-324" and "1e-323",
which are not the exact values of these numbers, but when you convert
these strings to FP, they convert back to the FP value the string was
generated from.

Similarly, if you print the value of the closest FP number to 1e-6,
the exact value would be

9.99999999999999954748111825886258685613938723690807819366455078125e-7

but most people prefer the output to be

1e-6

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2026 CFP: http://www.euroforth.org/ef26/cfp.html

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#135435

Fromdxf <dxforth@gmail.com>
Date2026-08-26 22:55 +1000
Message-ID<6a8ee226$1@news.ausics.net>
In reply to#135434
On 26/08/2026 8:55 pm, Anton Ertl wrote:
> dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>> E.EXACT is good for fooling people into believing a 64-bit
>> float can hold a 66 digit number.
> 
> Not just that, a 64-bit float can hold a number that takes 757
> characters (751 mantissa digits plus other characters) to represent
> exactly in decimal representation:
> 
> 4.940656458412465441765687928682213723650598026143247644255856825006755072702087518652998363616359923797965646954457177309266567103559397963987747960107818781263007131903114045278458171678489821036887186360569987307230500063874091535649843873124733972731696151400317153853980741262385655911710266585566867681870395603106249319452715914924553293054565444011274801297099995419319894090804165633245247571478690147267801593552386115501348035264934720193790268107107491703332226844753335720832431936092382893458368060106011506169809753078342277318329247904982524730776375927247874656084778203734469699533647017972677717585125660551199131504891101451037862738167250955837389733598993664809941164205702637090279242767544565229087538682506419718265533447265625e-324
> 
> The next number representable as IEEE 64-bit FP number, however, has
> the exact decimal representation
> 
> 9.88131291682493088353137585736442744730119605228649528851171365001351014540417503730599672723271984759593129390891435461853313420711879592797549592021563756252601426380622809055691634335697964207377437272113997461446100012774818307129968774624946794546339230280063430770796148252477131182342053317113373536374079120621249863890543182984910658610913088802254960259419999083863978818160833126649049514295738029453560318710477223100269607052986944038758053621421498340666445368950667144166486387218476578691673612021202301233961950615668455463665849580996504946155275185449574931216955640746893939906729403594535543517025132110239826300978220290207572547633450191167477946719798732961988232841140527418055848553508913045817507736501283943653106689453125e-324
> 
> So most people prefer to print these numbers as "5e-324" and "1e-323",
> which are not the exact values of these numbers, but when you convert
> these strings to FP, they convert back to the FP value the string was
> generated from.
> 
> Similarly, if you print the value of the closest FP number to 1e-6,
> the exact value would be
> 
> 9.99999999999999954748111825886258685613938723690807819366455078125e-7
> 
> but most people prefer the output to be
> 
> 1e-6

I want to see digits that I can reasonably engage with - which for a binary-64
float corresponds to approx 16 decimal digits which gives the answer 1e-6.
I assumed IEEE was on the same page but based on what I'm seeing here I've no
idea what it is about any more.

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#135436

Fromanton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Date2026-08-26 14:29 +0000
Message-ID<2026Aug26.162921@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
In reply to#135435
dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
>I want to see digits that I can reasonably engage with - which for a binary-64
>float corresponds to approx 16 decimal digits which gives the answer 1e-6.
>I assumed IEEE was on the same page but based on what I'm seeing here I've no
>idea what it is about any more.

You can use FP numbers like this, and that's what E. is good for; and
even then you should be aware of well/ill-conditioned problems and
numerically stable/unstable algorithms.

Or you can try to understand exactly what happens, and then E.EXACT
can be useful, although unwieldy.  You have demonstrated that you are
not interested in this kind of use.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: https://forth-standard.org/
EuroForth 2026 CFP: http://www.euroforth.org/ef26/cfp.html

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