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no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver?

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  no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 18:36 -0800
    Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 19:17 -0800
      Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-02-13 03:45 +0000
        Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2014-02-12 20:28 -0800
          Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-02-13 12:51 +0000
    Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-02-20 02:36 -0800
    Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2014-02-27 22:16 -0800
      Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-03-01 11:08 -0800
        Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2014-03-01 22:39 -0800
          Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2014-03-12 21:20 +1100
            Re: no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2014-03-12 23:58 -0700

#28354 — no forth pc? no forth replacement for mysqL? a la www.prevayler.org? no forth appserver?

how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?

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#28357

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:36:49 PM UTC-6, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?

Right now, what I'm interested in is niche RPGMaker-type games on Android.
I've done some of this work already in Java, including creating a map editor
(on Android) and a playable demo, using First Seed Material
(http://www.tekepon.net/fsm/index.php) assets  I gave up on my last
alternatives to Java when I found Terminal IDE, which allowed me to move code
all the way from Java source to installable .apks on the device itself.

But now there is a Forth system on Android!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gnu.gforth&hl=en

I don't know if it'll have on-device turnkey facilities soon or ever, or how
deployment will otherwise work.  I've some familiarity with Java API, the
Android way of XML-specified interfaces and the like (fortunately, games mostly
ignore that part of Android), but JNI and friends is still a mystery to me.

But you can get the satisfaction of being able to touch an icon and have your
Forth app start up.... by the roundabout method of having an auxiliary app that
1) slides Forth source into starta.fs on the SD card and then 2) launches
gforth.  It's satisfying anyway.

So in the manner of someone laying down track with the expectation that
there will be a tunnel through the mountain by the time the mountain is
reached, I'm working on some Android apps already.


What I'm getting as is, I'm afraid that it will take me a while to get around
to impressing you with 1% exact copies of existing software.

Sorry!  Please wait more patiently!


-- Julian

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#28358

In article <b3039dde-3360-4429-9031-23e6138c4bc8@googlegroups.com>,
Julian Fondren  <julian.fondren@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:36:49 PM UTC-6, the_gavino_himself wrote:
>> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?
>
>Right now, what I'm interested in is niche RPGMaker-type games on Android.
>I've done some of this work already in Java, including creating a map editor
>(on Android) and a playable demo, using First Seed Material
>(http://www.tekepon.net/fsm/index.php) assets  I gave up on my last
>alternatives to Java when I found Terminal IDE, which allowed me to move code
>all the way from Java source to installable .apks on the device itself.
>
>But now there is a Forth system on Android!
>
>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gnu.gforth&hl=en

One of the first things I installed on my Asus Memopad.
Easy to find, easy to install, easy to use.
But I don't think I'll do even half serious development
with the touchpad keyboard.

>
>I don't know if it'll have on-device turnkey facilities soon or ever, or how
>deployment will otherwise work.  I've some familiarity with Java API, the
>Android way of XML-specified interfaces and the like (fortunately, games mostly
>ignore that part of Android), but JNI and friends is still a mystery to me.
>
>But you can get the satisfaction of being able to touch an icon and have your
>Forth app start up.... by the roundabout method of having an auxiliary app that
>1) slides Forth source into starta.fs on the SD card and then 2) launches
>gforth.  It's satisfying anyway.
>
>So in the manner of someone laying down track with the expectation that
>there will be a tunnel through the mountain by the time the mountain is
>reached, I'm working on some Android apps already.
>
>
>What I'm getting as is, I'm afraid that it will take me a while to get around
>to impressing you with 1% exact copies of existing software.
>
>Sorry!  Please wait more patiently!
>
>
>-- Julian
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#28359

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:45:27 PM UTC-6, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>
> One of the first things I installed on my Asus Memopad.
> 
> Easy to find, easy to install, easy to use.
> 
> But I don't think I'll do even half serious development
> 
> with the touchpad keyboard.
> 

The Asus Memopad has bluetooth, so you can use a keyboard with it.  The three types are:

1. A giant bulky case (for protection) with an attached bluetooth keyboard.  You can prop up the tablet, generally only in landscape mode, which is worse for development.  If the case is 'universal', it's probably a minor feat to extract the tablet from it; this detracts considerably from the charm of having a tablet.

2. A keyboard with a bit of extra plastic that you can lean the tablet against.  These tend to allow freedom of orientation, tend to be stiffer and better for laps.  Some of them double as covers.

3. A completely separate keyboard.  Maybe the keyboard's own carrying-case doubles as a stand.

For devices with host USB support and the appropriate adapters, you can also use wired keyboards.  I have a nice stand and bluetooth keyboard at home, and also a wired rubber keyboard that I carry with me.

You can also use a mouse.  Now that I have a Note I'd rather use the S-pen, but a mouse was certainly useful with the map editor.

This is nothing new.  PalmOS had Quartus Forth and portable folding keyboards.

Or if you do normal desktop Android development, the first or second step is to configure an emulator.  You can install gforth into that, too.

-- Julian

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#28380

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 20:28:43 -0800 (PST), Julian Fondren
<julian.fondren@gmail.com> wrote:

>1. A giant bulky case (for protection) with an attached bluetooth keyboard.=
>  You can prop up the tablet, generally only in landscape mode, which is wo=
>rse for development.  If the case is 'universal', it's probably a minor fea=
>t to extract the tablet from it; this detracts considerably from the charm =
>of having a tablet.

I finally solved the tablet stand problem for GBP 2.65. Go to a
department store and buy a cheap plastic plate display stand. They
fold well and slip inside the sleeve.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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#28599

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:36:49 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?

pc=desktop computer

no one wants those silly pads and phones are too small for fun computer use

down with apple oracle ibm microsoft

scams

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#28826

On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:36:49 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> how about a forth clone of iceWM in 1% the code?

however

an online rpg done in forth would be awesome

something like a free world of warcraft
or even a non free competitor 

with nice graphics

all in 1% the code

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#28849

> Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is an implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which business objects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled for system recovery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to provide ACID persistence for your "plain old Java objects".

If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could allot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use overlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The overlays presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded right after the buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer.  Then have a few words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file folders if you tell them to be written.  Seems like I could implement something like this in 10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory.  The late great Jeff Fox might have considered that excessive.

:^/

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#28855

On Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:08:55 AM UTC-8, Jason Damisch wrote:
> > Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is an implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which business objects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled for system recovery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to provide ACID persistence for your "plain old Java objects".
> 
> 
> 
> If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could allot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use overlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The overlays presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded right after the buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer.  Then have a few words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file folders if you tell them to be written.  Seems like I could implement something like this in 10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory.  The late great Jeff Fox might have considered that excessive.
> 
> 
> 
> :^/

interesting

I am sad Mr Fox is gone :(

his site was very interesting.....I try to apply his methodology to my own coding...

It would have been fun to ask him more questions.....but he got very impatient with me on some emails.

His writing about how small memory language like forth mapping brilliantly to todays larger machines was very inspiring.

And the distributed forth stuff was like woa, as easy as a for loop?
wow
I forget if it was forth-linda or something else...

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#29021

gavino_himself wrote:

> On Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:08:55 AM UTC-8, Jason Damisch wrote:
>> > Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is
>> > an implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which
>> > business objects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled
>> > for system recovery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to
>> > provide ACID persistence for your "plain old Java objects".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could
>> allot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use
>> overlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The
>> overlays presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded
>> right after the buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer. 
>> Then have a few words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file
>> folders if you tell them to be written.  Seems like I could implement
>> something like this in 10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory. 
>> The late great Jeff Fox might have considered that excessive.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> :^/
> 
> interesting
> 
> I am sad Mr Fox is gone :(
> 
> his site was very interesting.....I try to apply his methodology to my own
> coding...
> 
> It would have been fun to ask him more questions.....but he got very
> impatient with me on some emails.
> 
> His writing about how small memory language like forth mapping brilliantly
> to todays larger machines was very inspiring.
> 
> And the distributed forth stuff was like woa, as easy as a for loop?
> wow
> I forget if it was forth-linda or something else...

So do it.

post your code - I'm sure many will help

People get impatient because of lack of action - you are clearly in this 
situation.  

Jason has told you how to do it in 10-20k, so go do it.  If you are really 
talented do it Jeff Fox style in less code.  We would all like to see that.

You have discussed in other postings about saving in RAM 1 hour of 
transactions and then logging to disk.  In my applications the loss of 1 
hours transactions would be death to the business.  How many applications do 
you really think could sustain 1 hours loss of business?   I will always 
take 1 finalised transaction above every promised or incomplete transaction, 
be that over ms, hours, days or weeks.

btw you need attention to detail and a good memory to be a programmer.  
Forgetting will cost you.

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#29036

On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:20:35 AM UTC-7, marko wrote:
> gavino_himself wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:08:55 AM UTC-8, Jason Damisch wrote:
> 
> >> > Prevayler is an open source object persistence library for Java. It is
> 
> >> > an implementation of the Prevalent System design pattern, in which
> 
> >> > business objects are kept live in memory and transactions are journaled
> 
> >> > for system recovery. Prevayler is the simplest and fastest way to
> 
> >> > provide ACID persistence for your "plain old Java objects".
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> If you want that kind of behavior in Forth, just implement it.  You could
> 
> >> allot a large buffer, say 2MB before you load anything else, and then use
> 
> >> overlays.  The overlays access the objects in the 2MB buffer.   The
> 
> >> overlays presumably all use the same object lexicon which you loaded
> 
> >> right after the buffer, or with it as the object system uses the buffer. 
> 
> >> Then have a few words which write out the objects to a hierarchy of file
> 
> >> folders if you tell them to be written.  Seems like I could implement
> 
> >> something like this in 10K -> 20K ( for the code portion ) of memory. 
> 
> >> The late great Jeff Fox might have considered that excessive.
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> :^/
> 
> > 
> 
> > interesting
> 
> > 
> 
> > I am sad Mr Fox is gone :(
> 
> > 
> 
> > his site was very interesting.....I try to apply his methodology to my own
> 
> > coding...
> 
> > 
> 
> > It would have been fun to ask him more questions.....but he got very
> 
> > impatient with me on some emails.
> 
> > 
> 
> > His writing about how small memory language like forth mapping brilliantly
> 
> > to todays larger machines was very inspiring.
> 
> > 
> 
> > And the distributed forth stuff was like woa, as easy as a for loop?
> 
> > wow
> 
> > I forget if it was forth-linda or something else...
> 
> 
> 
> So do it.
> 
> 
> 
> post your code - I'm sure many will help
> 
> 
> 
> People get impatient because of lack of action - you are clearly in this 
> 
> situation.  
> 
> 
> 
> Jason has told you how to do it in 10-20k, so go do it.  If you are really 
> 
> talented do it Jeff Fox style in less code.  We would all like to see that.
> 
> 
> 
> You have discussed in other postings about saving in RAM 1 hour of 
> 
> transactions and then logging to disk.  In my applications the loss of 1 
> 
> hours transactions would be death to the business.  How many applications do 
> 
> you really think could sustain 1 hours loss of business?   I will always 
> 
> take 1 finalised transaction above every promised or incomplete transaction, 
> 
> be that over ms, hours, days or weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> btw you need attention to detail and a good memory to be a programmer.  
> 
> Forgetting will cost you.

and what live website have you produced? 
link please
yeahhh
yeahhhhhh
yehahhhhhhhhh

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