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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #53455 > unrolled thread
| Started by | awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-12-21 01:19 +0100 |
| Last post | 2017-01-08 16:55 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 266 — 26 participants |
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"Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-21 01:19 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-24 05:40 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-24 06:01 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-25 19:27 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-26 18:16 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-27 14:27 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-27 14:29 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-27 14:27 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-28 11:35 +1100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-27 17:38 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-29 10:11 +1100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-29 17:06 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-28 05:39 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-27 22:37 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package crc <charles.childers@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 05:40 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-28 23:03 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-30 20:54 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 20:17 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package mhx@iae.nl - 2017-01-02 12:22 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-02 22:08 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-02 21:40 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-03 13:51 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-03 21:51 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-06 19:36 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 14:55 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-07 19:01 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-01-08 12:06 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-08 16:46 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Robert L." <No_spamming@noWhere_7073.org> - 2017-01-03 15:59 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-27 23:12 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-30 20:54 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-28 04:57 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-28 11:23 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-28 23:16 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-12-30 16:31 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2016-12-30 15:21 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-01-05 12:00 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-05 13:30 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-05 17:32 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-06 02:50 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-05 18:20 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-06 17:58 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 14:55 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-05 16:15 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-01-10 08:43 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-12-30 14:37 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package john <anon@example.com> - 2016-12-30 15:57 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-12-30 17:19 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-30 21:10 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-30 12:44 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-30 15:43 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-31 00:09 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-03 17:25 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package john <anon@example.com> - 2016-12-30 22:47 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-12-31 03:31 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-30 15:46 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-30 15:05 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-31 00:26 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-31 11:49 +1100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-12-30 15:21 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-01-02 11:11 +1100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-02 00:28 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-01 17:45 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-01 20:57 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 06:55 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-02 10:44 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 07:01 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-02 15:46 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package john <anon@example.com> - 2017-01-02 16:54 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 10:23 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 10:06 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-02 19:13 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 14:08 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package mhx@iae.nl - 2017-01-02 14:46 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-02 17:10 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-02 21:58 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 15:54 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-01-04 06:21 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-04 11:19 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-04 22:34 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 14:44 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-01-04 15:13 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 08:18 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-04 23:17 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-05 04:15 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package mhx@iae.nl - 2017-01-08 01:18 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-08 15:52 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-08 21:00 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 15:58 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-09 17:39 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-09 18:53 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 06:27 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-12 13:44 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 17:36 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-13 03:17 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-13 14:44 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-13 14:43 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-14 00:23 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-14 11:52 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-14 16:00 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-14 11:51 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-14 15:06 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-15 14:54 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 13:33 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 16:06 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-14 00:25 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 18:00 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-13 22:17 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 16:04 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-13 15:08 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-13 17:21 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-14 11:26 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 18:21 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-13 18:30 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-13 22:20 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-14 10:43 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-14 15:47 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-14 17:30 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-14 18:16 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-15 13:53 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 14:09 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-15 15:48 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 16:00 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-15 12:48 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-14 10:10 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-15 17:56 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-15 17:05 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-15 17:35 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-15 19:20 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-15 23:51 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-15 19:22 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-18 16:24 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-01-18 18:40 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 06:46 +0200
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-18 23:25 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-19 09:47 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 02:44 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-19 06:16 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 07:43 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-19 11:07 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 14:58 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-20 03:48 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 06:54 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-20 09:11 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 07:30 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-20 12:12 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 16:27 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-21 03:24 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-22 12:47 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-22 14:41 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-22 15:57 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-23 04:05 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-23 10:47 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 01:02 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-01-24 01:12 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-23 16:28 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 01:06 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-24 03:22 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-24 14:19 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-24 03:13 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-24 08:08 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-24 14:23 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-24 09:10 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-24 15:35 +0000
Persitent memory (was Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package) Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-24 14:19 -0500
Re: Persitent memory (was Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package) Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-24 15:00 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-24 14:49 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-25 03:26 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 04:27 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-26 08:35 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-21 14:19 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-22 12:55 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-19 15:28 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 14:44 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-19 20:30 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-20 18:21 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-20 03:52 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 06:58 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-20 12:57 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-20 16:31 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-20 17:31 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-19 08:48 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-19 17:18 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package alex@rivadpm.com - 2017-01-19 11:01 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 14:51 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-19 13:07 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-19 14:26 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-16 09:03 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-15 15:08 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-15 17:23 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-15 22:18 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-16 09:08 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-18 06:56 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-14 09:31 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-15 17:33 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-10 09:55 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-09 04:05 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-09 16:00 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-10 04:13 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-12 06:40 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-02 21:07 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-03 04:46 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-03 16:11 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-04 04:27 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 14:26 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-04 23:09 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-05 00:02 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 02:19 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 05:56 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 06:33 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-05 16:56 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-05 19:03 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-01-06 06:45 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-05 04:27 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-05 06:22 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-01-05 09:10 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-04 23:05 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-03 22:05 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-01-04 13:44 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-01 20:53 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-01 19:55 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-01 21:13 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2017-01-02 07:14 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-02 07:42 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-01-03 02:00 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-01-03 00:13 -0500
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-01-02 22:02 -1000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-03 11:19 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-03 21:37 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-02 21:55 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-03 11:26 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-02 10:47 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-02 20:57 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-30 18:35 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-31 04:29 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-31 10:19 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-02 17:08 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-01-06 13:39 +1100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-05 19:13 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-27 23:57 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2016-12-30 20:54 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-29 19:05 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-29 19:38 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-30 15:24 +1100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-12-30 16:01 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-30 14:33 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-29 16:04 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-12-30 12:42 +1100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-12-30 07:24 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-30 12:50 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-30 21:43 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-30 14:38 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-12-31 10:31 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-31 07:04 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-31 07:07 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-12-31 07:46 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-12-31 08:28 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-30 16:53 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-06 20:49 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-01-06 23:28 -0600
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-06 22:22 -0800
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 14:55 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-01-07 21:20 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package awegel@arcor.de (Alexander Wegel) - 2017-01-07 22:57 +0100
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-01-08 17:02 +0000
Re: "Hello world" using Hughs novice package hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-01-08 16:55 -0800
Page 10 of 14 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12 … 14 Next page →
| From | Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-20 17:31 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <o5udi4$3qp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #54212 |
On 1/20/2017 16:31, Ilya Tarasov wrote: > пятница, 20 января 2017 г., 23:57:08 UTC+3 пользователь Alex > написал: >> On 1/20/2017 06:58, Ilya Tarasov wrote: >>> пятница, 20 января 2017 г., 12:52:06 UTC+3 пользователь Andrew >>> Haley написал: >>>> Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: >>>> >>>>> My guess is that many system implementors react negatively >>>>> to recognizers because a part of their business model is to >>>>> provide enhancements like recognizing date syntax to >>>>> customers as a service. If the customers or a third party can >>>>> then do it themselves through a standardized interface, that >>>>> may reduce revenue. >>>> >>>> Haha, brilliant! Yes, that must be it. >>> >>> OMG! I met this long time ago. This is very tricky position 'big >>> companies are bad and prevents Forth distribution because they >>> afraid to lost their market'. One can hide behind this illusion >>> forever. So you thinks recognizers are extremely effective and >>> implementers just afraid to provide so smart feature? Because >>> this can made them useless? I really need to send a link of your >>> message to a couple of colleagues :) >>> >> >> While Anton may be entirely, partly or not serious at all, I can >> assure you that Andrew does not mean what he wrote. Quite the >> opposite. > > But this is a chance to tell something about really wrong position :) > No matter how serious he is. You're not getting the point here at all. Never mind. -- Alex
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| From | Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-19 08:48 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <o5qqij$ahd$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #54157 |
On 1/19/2017 02:44, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
>>> Btw, strings are ASCIIZ, because it is natural for MS Windows
>>> API.
>> Other people tell me that the Windows API uses UTF-16 instead of
>> ASCII.
> Windows API use both encoding. Letter A or U is added for function
> name to explicitly describe which kind of string format is required.
> So, MessageBoxA and MessageBoxU are exist.
>
Windows uses UTF-16 ("widechars") internally.
The A in MessageBoxA indicates ASCIIZ strings are supported as input,
which are translated to UTF-16 by a call to MultiByteToWideChar. The
translated strings are then handed off to MessageBoxW (not U).
For UTF-8 strings, the programmer is responsible for calling
MultiByteToWideChar before calling MessageBoxW. MessageBoxA only
supports ANSI characters (with some locale shenanigans that is the
result of ancient history predating Windows).
MessageBox is an alias at compile time for either the A or the W form;
which is chosen depends on the character set chosen for the compilation.
There is no entry point called MessageBox in user32.dll.
--
Alex
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-19 17:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2017Jan19.181817@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #54173 |
Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> writes:
>On 1/19/2017 02:44, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
>> Windows API use both encoding. Letter A or U is added for function
>> name to explicitly describe which kind of string format is required.
>> So, MessageBoxA and MessageBoxU are exist.
>>
>
>Windows uses UTF-16 ("widechars") internally.
>
>The A in MessageBoxA indicates ASCIIZ strings are supported as input,
>which are translated to UTF-16 by a call to MultiByteToWideChar.
So the ASCIIZ representation advocated by Ilya Tarasov actually
performs a conversion on every call; if you use c-addr u UTF-8 strings
on the Forth level and have a Forth word MessageBox that performs the
conversion to UTF-16 and then calls MessageBoxW, you will have as few
conversions as when having ASCIIZ strings on the Forth level and
calling MessageBoxA.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/
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| From | alex@rivadpm.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-19 11:01 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <d2477656-03b5-4c48-bbb3-35fd41680e0b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #54176 |
Correct.
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| From | Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-19 14:51 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <93fc528b-2c2c-4dba-866b-e9df413cbc52@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #54173 |
> MessageBox is an alias at compile time for either the A or the W form; > which is chosen depends on the character set chosen for the compilation. > There is no entry point called MessageBox in user32.dll. 0 VALUE ActiveLibrary : FUNCTION ActiveLibrary SWAP GETPROCADDRESS VALUE ; " user32.dll" LOADLIBRARY VALUE USER32 USER32 TO ActiveLibrary " MessageBoxA" FUNCTION MessageBox@ : MessageBox MessageBox@ API4 DROP ; 0 " Text" " Header" 0 MessageBox
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| From | albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-19 13:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <o5qa5o$p5n$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #54155 |
In article <2017Jan19.104746@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: <SNIP> > >The Forth-94 TC probably did not want to require the exception wordset >for systems that have the file or memory-access wordsets. CATCH and >THROW were very new then. > >Interestingly, the actual (assembly-level) Unix system calls return >two values (and this has been maintained from the earliest Unix up to >Linux); the C wrappers then divide this into errno and the direct >return value, because C can only return one value (and originally >could not return structs). It is rare that I need to correct you on a factual item, but this is not correct. Of course a u*x implementation is free to choose the way it does system calls, to an extend, so you may be right on e.g. a Sparc. However at least OSX, linux 32 bit and Linux 64 bit, return a single cell. If it is negative it is an error. This is an example from ciforth: : WRITE-FILE ROT ROT 0000,0004 XOS 0 MIN ; First the (buf,len) and (filedescriptor) are put in correct order. The system call #4 is done with one result, the number of bytes or a negative error code. Forth doesn't want the number of bytes, so `` 0 MIN '' is sufficient to make that a correct call returns 0. > >>Btw, strings are ASCIIZ, because it is natural for MS Windows API. > >Other people tell me that the Windows API uses UTF-16 instead of >ASCII. > >Complicating Forth interfaces for the benefit of simpler >implementation on some systems has proved to be a mistake in the past >(in particular, having the parameters of foreign functions in >reverse), and is a mistake in this case, too. We have a standard >string representation (c-addr u), and we should use it all the time in >Forth, and convert at the borders. The alternative of having ASCIIZ >strings here, UTF-16 strings there, c-addr u UTF-8 strings yonder, >byte-counted strings in another place, and cell-counted strings >elsewhere is confusing and therefore error-prone. Exactly. E.g. my OPEN-FILE ( string-constant fam - fd ior) starts with >R ZEN R> ZEN (zero ended) turns a Forth string into a c-string at the last moment. This principle has been borne out in so many applications. My first job was calculating the Brent oil fields. Internally oil flow was not done in Shell's units (kilobarrels/day) but in cubic meters per second. (Actually m^3/sec was the order of magnitude). <SNIP> >- anton Groetjes Albert P.S. A barrel is 42 us gallons or 35 imperial gallons. -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-19 14:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2017Jan19.152640@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #54162 |
albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>In article <2017Jan19.104746@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>Interestingly, the actual (assembly-level) Unix system calls return
>>two values (and this has been maintained from the earliest Unix up to
>>Linux); the C wrappers then divide this into errno and the direct
>>return value, because C can only return one value (and originally
>>could not return structs).
>
>It is rare that I need to correct you on a factual item, but this is
>not correct. Of course a u*x implementation is free to choose
>the way it does system calls, to an extend, so you may be right on
>e.g. a Sparc.
>However at least OSX, linux 32 bit and Linux 64 bit, return a single
>cell. If it is negative it is an error.
Unix V1-V7 on the PDP-11 sets a carry flag to indicate the error,
and R0 contains either the result or the errno. In September I wrote:
|Some Linux ports use a second register
|to indicate that there is an error, and SPARC even uses the carry
|flag.
But I guess you are right for IA-32 and AMD64.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/
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| From | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-16 09:03 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <3-adnUkX6voifeHFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #54047 |
Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Standard Forth is evolutionary, based on a continuous line of systems >> which started in 1970. It's not based on re-evaluating ideas from >> scratch. That's a different approach from what you want to do. But >> if it takes 50-odd pages to describe your system, then it will >> certainly lack simplicity, Forth's most distinguishing feature. > > Starting from scratch each time is not necessary. Then perhaps you should not have said "This must give a base to evaluate ideas from the scratch." Andrew.
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-15 15:08 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <dfGdnehnB-WDgOHFnZ2dnUU7-L3NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #54045 |
On 1/15/17 1:56 PM, Andrew Haley wrote: > Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I think this is a time to carefully study current programming world, >> mainly in non-Forth area and determining main trends in the abstract >> terms (i.e. not in the terms of object-oriented, functional, >> high-level or any else, but in the pure CS terms, still applicable >> for Forth). This must give a base to evaluate ideas from the scratch >> and without constantly comparing with 'how it was done 20 years >> ago'. > > That's not a bad idea. It might make sense to develop a new system > from scratch, based on some of the same principles as Forth. However, > it probably won't be recognizable as Forth: it will be something new. > Other people have tried to do so in the past. > > Standard Forth is evolutionary, based on a continuous line of systems > which started in 1970. It's not based on re-evaluating ideas from > scratch. That's a different approach from what you want to do. But > if it takes 50-odd pages to describe your system, then it will > certainly lack simplicity, Forth's most distinguishing feature. Of course, Chuck originally designed Forth from scratch. He knew several languages, and knew what he found wrong with them all! His ambition, though, was not a worldwide movement, but a tool for his personal productivity. It became a movement when more and more people discovered that they, too, could be more productive and make better use of their hardware at the same time. Cheers, Elizabeth -- Elizabeth R. Conklin FORTH, Inc. 6080 Center Drive, Suite 600 Los Angeles, CA 90045 USA
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| From | Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-15 17:23 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <d51585e8-c1de-444e-8f0c-80711889b23f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #54048 |
> Of course, Chuck originally designed Forth from scratch. He knew several > languages, and knew what he found wrong with them all! His ambition, > though, was not a worldwide movement, but a tool for his personal > productivity. It became a movement when more and more people discovered > that they, too, could be more productive and make better use of their > hardware at the same time. Of course, in prehistoric age one designed wheel from scratch. Now everyone in the world know what is a wheel and other round things. Why car company must study prehistoric pictures to design a car wheel? Talented engineer can design better wheel, just like a talented programmer cand design better Forth than a programmer who simple repeating he knows Forth for many, many years.
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| From | Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-15 22:18 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <20170115221831.5c4a0d7b@_> |
| In reply to | #54045 |
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 17:56:50 -0600 Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote: > Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> wrote: > > I think this is a time to carefully study current programming world, > > mainly in non-Forth area and determining main trends in the abstract > > terms (i.e. not in the terms of object-oriented, functional, > > high-level or any else, but in the pure CS terms, still applicable > > for Forth). This must give a base to evaluate ideas from the scratch > > and without constantly comparing with 'how it was done 20 years > > ago'. > > That's not a bad idea. It might make sense to develop a new system > from scratch, based on some of the same principles as Forth. However, > it probably won't be recognizable as Forth: it will be something new. > Other people have tried to do so in the past. > I think there is merit in developing a new system or programming language from scratch, but it'll most likely have one of two results. The first outcome is that he'll find that there high degree of similarity Forth and his results, so it makes sense to comply with Forth standards. The second outcome is that he'll find that he creates something very few people will use and it will take a long time for others to adopt since he doesn't have the power or influence of Microsoft, Google, or Facebook. But, sometimes they do adopt outside tools. So, there is hope. If you look at all the numerous recent "new" and "big" programming and scripting languages, they're mostly derived from C. But, they all "go backwards" in that they remove much of C's power, in order to add enhanced functionality in domain specific areas. You can go to Rosetta Code or 99 Bottles of Beer websites and see that C++, Java, Javascript, Objective-C, AWK, C#, Go, Lua, Perl, PHP, Ocaml, Rust, Swift and numerous others appear to be warmed over C (or perhaps C++), or at at a minimum, they use curly braces and a C like syntax. And, if they don't appear to be warmed over C, then they mostly appear to be warmed over Pascal, Lisp, or BASIC. Then, there are the C and Pascal looking hybrids, and a few warmed over Forths. HOPL shows the derivative languages of a specific language, but doesn't have much for Forth. Esolangs has pages on many (206) other stack languages (go to the Forth page, select stack based at bottom). http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net/ http://hopl.info/ http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page Rod Pemberton
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| From | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-16 09:08 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <3-adnUgX6vp5fOHFnZ2dnUU7-fednZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #54051 |
Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> wrote: > You can go to Rosetta Code or 99 Bottles of Beer websites and see > that C++, Java, Javascript, Objective-C, AWK, C#, Go, Lua, Perl, > PHP, Ocaml, Rust, Swift and numerous others appear to be warmed over > C (or perhaps C++), or at at a minimum, they use curly braces and a > C like syntax. And, if they don't appear to be warmed over C, then > they mostly appear to be warmed over Pascal, Lisp, or BASIC. I think that's an illusion. Java and several of the Java-like languages have, for example, significant metaprogramming and reflective dynamic programming facilites. This is important: dynamic and static languages are not the same thing. Andrew.
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| From | Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-18 06:56 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <20ac5258-5e85-4986-ba97-f92b0aed8dce@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #54051 |
> I think there is merit in developing a new system or programming > language from scratch, but it'll most likely have one of two results. I don't mean an absolute new programming language. We are discussing Forth, so it is a question 'how to architect Forth system'. Even limited by Forth, we need to solve many questions, otherwise Forth will be too chaotic and particular.
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| From | Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-14 09:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <o5cr3d$u0o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #53991 |
On 1/14/2017 02:21, Ilya Tarasov wrote: >>> Ok, let's start to persuade ME I need ANS :) >> >> It's up to you to decide you don't need it. If you feel you don't, >> why are you still posting about it? > > I'm not posting about ANS content. I think there is a wrong way to > develop Forth, because the whole idea is too simple to be limited so > strong, as it appears in ANS. For a while, most of discussions are > going to a single question - is it ANS-compatible or not? The only > way to develop is claiming as 'propose this to a committee meeting'. > Don't you think this is too arrogantly? This may sound arrogant, but you're wrong, because I can't think of another way of discussing proposals, use cases, suitability etc. If you or anyone else shows some code here, or has an idea and raises it for discussion, or finds a neat solution, then it may be that it's a good enough idea to try and standardise it. How would you do it? > >>> I'm not talking about how to add my Forth words to ANS. >> >> Ok. What are you trying to achieve, then? > > I state this before. I'm sure this must be an equal abilities to > share ideas and compare approaches, which show success, no matter how > close it to ANS. Forth has too wide spectrum of applicability and > many non-compatible implementation may exist independently, but > authors still can share ideas. Even if I don't need a feature, or it > is blocking some functions in my Forth, it is not a reason to Who is blocking you? > discard. Maybe later I will use it in another implementation, so I > may add it to my knowledge base. Also, relations with customers, > project management, teaching materials etc are questions to discuss > too. Programmers should feel themselves free to discuss many things, > without a risk to be blamed they are Standard-haters. > Who are these mythical people that are stopping you from doing this? -- Alex
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| From | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-15 17:33 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <MPednToV6btJm-HFnZ2dnUU7-avNnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #53982 |
Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> wrote: >> Here's the right way to do it: first persuade people to use your >> design, and only then think about standardization. With a decently >> long time interval to allow any disadvantages to be revealed. > > Ok, let's start to persuade ME I need ANS :) No. It doesn't matter to anyone but you. >> But of course we'll never get to find out what any of your ideas are, >> so all of this is moot anyway. > > I'm not talking about how to add my Forth words to ANS. It is not a > major achievement for me. I wrote here I have several success > stories with Forth, its customization, Forth CPUs etc. When I see > anyone who use Forth I'm trying to understand, is it the same > vision, and, if not, is it principal mismatch between us. I think > this is normal. If you think you only need to collect benefits, you > are definitely wrong. First you need to accept there is other points > of view and some may be correct (and even better than ANS). So if > there are other Forth systems, other reasons to create them should > exist. Of course. Who has ever disputed that other systems exist, and that they have thir merits? No-one here. I accept that there are other points of view, and that they may be "correct" (whatever that means). > Compare your position with a hypotetical tribe, who claims a first > wheel in history was invented at their land :) Let's talk about Forth instead. Andrew.
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| From | Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-10 09:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <o52avq$inb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #53909 |
On 1/9/2017 23:58, Ilya Tarasov wrote: >>> 1. Elizabeth Rather states Forth Inc has 2 programmers for full >>> time. I'm not sure she was serious, since this is pity. >> >> I waffled because I have been retired for 10 years and am not sure >> how many staff Leon Wagner, who has been President of FORTH, Inc. >> since I left, has. I suspect the number varies depending upon what >> projects are current at any one time, and also includes >> contractors. > > So it is a group of peoples working together when they have a > customer? For being a worldwide industry leader (even for small > community), this looks insufficient, isn't it? > Never mistake permanent headcount for anything other than an indicator of fixed costs. It's cost effective not to employ large permanent staffs. Ask Uber or Deliveroo, or any number of very large & successful software companies like Tata. -- Alex
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| From | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-09 04:05 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <To6dndsaEfvK_e7FnZ2dnUU7-K3NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #53872 |
Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> wrote: >> Don't write about stuff you have no idea about, limit yourself > > Why do you think I have no idea about such kind of things? :) > >> "opinions". The committee consists of experts that can properly > > No, don't mix expert level for RL and so-called experts of small > community. There is a set of objective markers, indicating real > level of technical direction. Now I see: > 1. Elizabeth Rather states Forth Inc has 2 programmers for full > time. I'm not sure she was serious, since this is pity. > 2. I cannot get an answer what bright project was completed by any > of 'experts' last time. I mean a value of total income, quantity of > copies sold etc. I understand a programmer stubborn enough may use > Forth just to approve he is smart Forth programmer, but what about > new users? > 3. Several years ago Forth was at ~35 line in TIOBE > rating. Currently it is not listed in top50. Show me another rating, > if you think it is more representative. > 4. Anyone who involved in scientific activity should be able to > discuss strategic matters, which are common for most areas of > science, including computer science. Simple questions, such as 'what > is your goal', 'what list of tasks you want to solve', 'what kind of > features/disadvantages you can describe', 'what problems are most > important in this area' must be answered, at least briefly. I was > surprised Ertl is a PhD. I want to see how he names any Professor in > his university a frustrated troll when asked similar questions :) > > Finally, I can't agrees thigs are going well now. I can't dictate a > time when to start makes it better, it is a choice of any interested > person. However, strong efforts in right direction makes people > happy when they becomes successful. This is better when criyng and > waiting for hundreds of new users. None of this has any technical content. It's management-speak. If you had a point to make that is relevant to the actual technical content of the Forth standard you surely would have made it by now. Andrew.
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| From | Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-09 16:00 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <8775270f-a4f4-4067-80ff-3c37821d8ffe@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #53892 |
> None of this has any technical content. It's management-speak. If > you had a point to make that is relevant to the actual technical > content of the Forth standard you surely would have made it by now. No seasons to do it while technical matters are chaotic. I cannot understand where do you want to go, how I can suggest anything from my portfolio?
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| From | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-10 04:13 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <IsqdncXGb91BLunFnZ2dnUU7-V_NnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #53910 |
Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> wrote: > >> None of this has any technical content. It's management-speak. If >> you had a point to make that is relevant to the actual technical >> content of the Forth standard you surely would have made it by now. > > No seasons to do it while technical matters are chaotic. I cannot > understand where do you want to go, how I can suggest anything from > my portfolio? I don't care about your portfolio. It does not matter. Languge design is not a marketing exercise. It doesn't make any sense for anybody to engage with you if you have no intention to make any technical contribution. Andrew.
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| From | Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-01-12 06:40 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <679966af-232a-4695-bfcd-be7745d1d51b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #53926 |
> I don't care about your portfolio. It does not matter. So do you await just a couple of words from me? :) If I state a have a Forth translator, Forth CPU, embedded and PC-based solutions, how do ever imagine the process of aligning all of these with current Standard activity? Note I don't need a help from any kind of Forth guru to improve my technologies. Thanks to Forth, it is so simple so I can found it by myself! :) > Languge design is not a marketing exercise. Really? :) Then I can tell you a story. When a new technology is studied, all results are fresh and hard to estimate. This is a thing for science methodology, with experiments, dependencies revealing and tests. On this stage, it is very hard to implement a complete solution and sell it to a customer. Results at the final stage may be better than expected... but not for this customer (may be for another). This is why research activity usually supporting by grants, without serious hope of immediate results. After you have a complete imagination, how, when and who can implement a complete solution, it is time for market. You can find a customer and suggest a project with features, already familiar for you. No more experiments on-the-fly, no hacks, no 'code gems'. A marketing exercise :) A common mistake: one wants a money 'right now'. He hears about Forth and suggest a brilliant new solution based on the elite programming language. After this, he goes to study, how to write an interpreter. Results (if any) are divided to two groups: one of them contains failing requirements, and second - far more better than needed, but without previous experience programmer was not able to estimate this.
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