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A Forth pet?

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  A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 11:22 -0700
    A Forth pet? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 11:27 -0700
    Re: A Forth pet? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-23 11:51 -0700
    Re: A Forth pet? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 12:07 -0700
      Re: A Forth pet? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-23 13:28 -0700
        Re: A Forth pet? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 14:03 -0700
          Re: A Forth pet? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-23 19:05 -0700
            Re: A Forth pet? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 03:36 -0700
              Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 04:46 -0700
        Re: A Forth pet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 17:16 -0400
          Re: A Forth pet? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 15:10 -0700
            Re: A Forth pet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 21:42 -0400
      Re: A Forth pet? Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2017-04-25 13:41 +0200
    Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-23 19:49 -0700
    Re: A Forth pet? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-24 08:33 +0200
      Re: A Forth pet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 02:51 -0400
      Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 02:39 -0700
        Re: A Forth pet? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-24 11:54 +0200
      Re: A Forth pet? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 13:09 +0200
        Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 04:25 -0700
          Re: A Forth pet? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 10:55 -0500
            Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 09:02 -0700
              Re: A Forth pet? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-24 11:12 -0500
              Re: A Forth pet? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-24 09:19 -0700
                Re: A Forth pet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 13:11 -0400
                  Re: A Forth pet? Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 15:15 -0700
    Re: A Forth pet? The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2017-04-24 00:41 -0700
      Re: A Forth pet? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-04-25 21:11 +1000
    Re: A Forth pet? Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2017-04-24 17:19 +0100
    Re: A Forth pet? pbjtech@gmail.com - 2017-04-24 21:29 -0700
    Re: A Forth pet? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 03:24 -0700
      Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 05:47 -0700
        Re: A Forth pet? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 08:57 -0700
          Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 10:25 -0700
            Re: A Forth pet? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 10:51 -0700
            Re: A Forth pet? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 14:01 -0400
            Re: A Forth pet? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-27 13:04 -0500
              Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 11:59 -0700
                Re: A Forth pet? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-27 14:20 -0500
                  Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 01:19 -0700
            Re: A Forth pet? jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2017-04-28 18:27 -0700
    Re: A Forth pet? Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-28 18:58 -0400
      Re: A Forth pet? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-04-28 19:06 -0500
      Re: A Forth pet? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 20:09 -0700
        Re: A Forth pet? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-28 23:47 -0700
      Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 00:38 -0700
        Re: A Forth pet? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-29 06:03 -0700
          Re: A Forth pet? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 07:36 -0700
            Re: A Forth pet? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-29 07:49 -0700
            Re: A Forth pet? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 08:49 -0700
              Re: A Forth pet? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-29 09:07 -0700
      Re: A Forth pet? Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2017-05-02 13:52 +0200
        Re: A Forth pet? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-05-02 05:44 -0700

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#58322

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 12:25:10 PM UTC-5, lehs wrote:
> Den torsdag 27 april 2017 kl. 17:57:38 UTC+2 skrev humptydumpty:
> > On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 3:47:18 PM UTC+3, lehs wrote:
> > > Den torsdag 27 april 2017 kl. 12:24:13 UTC+2 skrev humptydumpty:
> > > > On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 9:22:48 PM UTC+3, lehs wrote:
> > > > > What could be a nice symbol of Forth? A lot of modern languages has some kind of symbol, why not Forth? 
> > > > > A robot is perhaps what's come first into mind... What about a nice looking robot with a rose in it's mouth?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > A four-eyed snail with no shell, but a turbine instead ? :-)
> > > > 
> > > > Have a nice day,
> > > > hum9
> > > 
> > > It would be nice to see a sketch of that.
> > 
> > See a prototype here :)
> > http://file-post.net/en/fp9/d1/1493307794_313446743_120/?id=7LPFoGQPWrfS
> > 
> > :-))
> > 
> > --
> > hum9
> 
> I though you ment something like this:
> 
> https://github.com/Lehs/ANS-Forth-libraries/blob/master/turbosnail.gif

Philips semiconductor once had a video chip manual with the cover being a humanoid robot riding a jet engine.  Was 3D and not dark like Tron, which used a "mobile sculpture" representation of Forth memory.  E.g., have the jet engine consuming the mobile sculpture stack code and spitting out who knows what.

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#58316

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> wrote:

> What could be a nice symbol of Forth? A lot of modern languages has
> some kind of symbol, why not Forth? A robot is perhaps what's come
> first into mind... What about a nice looking robot with a rose in
> it's mouth?

Duh, a squirrel.  It's so obvious ...

They're cute.  Imagine a stylized cartoon squirrel with a flowing mane,
like a horse or a lion, sitting on it's haunches while munching a nut.

They're small.  They're ubiquitous.  They're dexterous.  They're
flexible.  They're acrobatic.  That describes Forth as well, correct?

They're smart.  They're curious.  They're creative.  They're determined.
That describes most, or at least a few, Forth programmers, yes?

They also go forth and bury nuts.  Their chirps sound like they're
already saying "Forth."

What isn't there to love about a squirrel?  They're most likely to
inherit the earth.

You also can't rhyme some negative or swear word with "squirrel" to
make an insult about Forth, either.  E.g., punk or bunk etc with
"chipmunk".  Well, you might be able to rhyme something with squirrel
if you're a skilled rapper.  Apparently, Eminem rhymes words with
"orange" all the time just to prove it can be done.


Rod Pemberton
-- 
All it takes for humanity to conquer the world's toughest problems
is to hope, to believe, to share, and to do, in cooperation.

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#58318

On 4/28/2017 5:58 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
> lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> What could be a nice symbol of Forth? A lot of modern languages has
>> some kind of symbol, why not Forth? A robot is perhaps what's come
>> first into mind... What about a nice looking robot with a rose in
>> it's mouth?
> 
> Duh, a squirrel.  It's so obvious ...
> 
> They're cute.  Imagine a stylized cartoon squirrel with a flowing mane,
> like a horse or a lion, sitting on it's haunches while munching a nut.
> 
> They're small.  They're ubiquitous.  They're dexterous.  They're
> flexible.  They're acrobatic.  That describes Forth as well, correct?
> 
> They're smart.  They're curious.  They're creative.  They're determined.
> That describes most, or at least a few, Forth programmers, yes?
> 
> They also go forth and bury nuts.  Their chirps sound like they're
> already saying "Forth."
> 
> What isn't there to love about a squirrel?  They're most likely to
> inherit the earth.
> 
> You also can't rhyme some negative or swear word with "squirrel" to
> make an insult about Forth, either.  E.g., punk or bunk etc with
> "chipmunk".  Well, you might be able to rhyme something with squirrel
> if you're a skilled rapper.  Apparently, Eminem rhymes words with
> "orange" all the time just to prove it can be done.
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton
> 
And they are undecisive, no wonder so many get flattened while crossing 
the road. But they are cute. In my front yard I have two large Oak 
trees, there is a bunch of squirrels that call that home, as I have bird 
feeders underneath those tree, they help themselves to the bird feed all 
the time, I put some raw peanuts just for them by the feeders.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#58325

Boom. Rod nailed it. Squirrel. 

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#58335

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 4:09:13 AM UTC+1, Mark Wills wrote:
> Boom. Rod nailed it. Squirrel.


Squirrel is very nice, in the UK reflects how the red (Forth) is taken over by the gray(other) version, BUT difficult to stand on my desk ...

May I just add the option of the kangaroo. Very different - like Forth, Jumps rather than runs, different type of animal, not many left, stands nicely on my desk, doing a jumping robot like one can only be done in Forth ...
Reflects some CLF activity https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwif4dPNh8nTAhVFXhQKHZoJCikQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWCcLMNcWZOc&psig=AFQjCNEb3eHvV5ON3JgL8KfWgua_3vHMKA&ust=1493534461486988

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#58337

Den lördag 29 april 2017 kl. 00:57:27 UTC+2 skrev Rod Pemberton:
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
> lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > What could be a nice symbol of Forth? A lot of modern languages has
> > some kind of symbol, why not Forth? A robot is perhaps what's come
> > first into mind... What about a nice looking robot with a rose in
> > it's mouth?
> 
> Duh, a squirrel.  It's so obvious ...
> 
> They're cute.  Imagine a stylized cartoon squirrel with a flowing mane,
> like a horse or a lion, sitting on it's haunches while munching a nut.
> 
> They're small.  They're ubiquitous.  They're dexterous.  They're
> flexible.  They're acrobatic.  That describes Forth as well, correct?
> 
> They're smart.  They're curious.  They're creative.  They're determined.
> That describes most, or at least a few, Forth programmers, yes?
> 
> They also go forth and bury nuts.  Their chirps sound like they're
> already saying "Forth."
> 
> What isn't there to love about a squirrel?  They're most likely to
> inherit the earth.
> 
> You also can't rhyme some negative or swear word with "squirrel" to
> make an insult about Forth, either.  E.g., punk or bunk etc with
> "chipmunk".  Well, you might be able to rhyme something with squirrel
> if you're a skilled rapper.  Apparently, Eminem rhymes words with
> "orange" all the time just to prove it can be done.
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton
> -- 
> All it takes for humanity to conquer the world's toughest problems
> is to hope, to believe, to share, and to do, in cooperation.

A squirrel would be perfect, but which squirrel? In my opinion it should be just a cool squirrel without a self-important or didactic style:

https://neveradullbling.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/wpid-68747470733a2f2f776562746f6f6c666565642e66696c65732e776f726470726573732e636f6d2f323031322f30342f637574652d737175697272656c2d6c312e6a7067.jpg

Many forthers can't understand why not everybody likes Forth and we tends to be excessively assertive.

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#58351

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 12:38:31 AM UTC-7, lehs wrote:
> A squirrel would be perfect, but which squirrel? In my opinion it should be just a cool squirrel without a self-important or didactic style:

You don't want "a self-important or didactic style" --- well, that leaves out Alex McDonald, Julien Fondren, Rudy Velthuis, etc..

> Many forthers can't understand why not everybody likes Forth and we tends to be excessively assertive.

Maybe Forthers are too squirrelly to be taken seriously --- erratic behavior, lack of a plan, indecision, attention-span measured in milliseconds, etc. --- you could hire Gavino to be your mascot; he could wear a squirrel costume and jump around on the street corner waving a sign at the passing cars: "Get Squirrelly! Learn ANS-Forth!" (he's a multi-millionaire though, so you couldn't afford him).

I think the squirrel would be the perfect mascot for the Forth-200x committee, as their goal seems to be collecting nuts...

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#58358

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 8:03:40 AM UTC-5, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> You don't want "a self-important or didactic style" --- well, that leaves out Alex McDonald, Julien Fondren, Rudy Velthuis, etc..
...
> I think the squirrel would be the perfect mascot for the Forth-200x committee, as their goal seems to be collecting nuts...

Let's all take a moment to appreciate it that it is *Hugh* who is
saying such things.

This is why I don't bother with software filtering of people who are
merely unpleasant, and not actually spamming or posting malicious
links. Wetware filtering works well enough and it still gives you an
occasional laugh.

On topic, not all languages have mascots (or good mascots -- can you
even remember the details of that black/white/red arrow-thing with
arms that Sun came up with for Java?), but many of them have at least
have some kind of icon or picture or animal that suggests the
language, which people reach for when they want to easily associate
something with the language. I'd analyze languages as falling into
these categories:

* imageless: Forth, C, JavaScript

If you want to suggest that something is related to any of these, the
best you can do is have a little bit of code. FORTH LOVE IF HONK THEN

* self-representing: Lua, Python, Ruby

As represented by: the moon (lua), a python (Python), a ruby (Ruby)

Although these each don't just randomly have any kind of moon or any
kind of scene involving rubies. Lua's moon is very distinctive.

And rather than that arrow-thing, Java is usually suggested by a cup
of coffee.

* random: Go, Perl, PHP

Go has a blue hamster drawn by Rob Pike's wife or something. Perl has
a Camel that O'Reilly liked for a book cover. PHP has an elephant of
all things.


Although I place Forth as imageless, the number 4 is popular. So is
the swap dragon -- I was suprised when it wasn't the first answer in
this thread. Forth Inc has satellite dishes and MPE has that robot
sculpture, but I feel like these are more about the respective
companies than about the language.

The original swap dragon looks a bit like a chicken to me...
https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia/status/844547794912337920

Personally I'd like some kind of space ship. I imagine some
early-space enterprise mandating a lingua franca for all programming
on a space craft, to better permit a single person to be able to
understand, dig into, and troubleshoot every single component (at
least until he bolts on some third-party thrusters). Forth can go low,
go high, go 'safe' while leaving an access panel protected only
by thumb screws. The only real-world weakness when compared to other
languages is a lack of investment, which is solved neatly by
investment.

Space also connects all users of Forth. Some of them have actually
gone into space. Others (see previous paragraph) have their heads at
least that far into the clouds.

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#58360

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 7:36:27 AM UTC-7, Julian Fondren wrote:
> PHP has an elephant of
> all things.

Birdie, birdie, in the sky
Why'd you drop that in my eye?
I'm not sad, I won't cry
I'm just glad, elephants can't fly

So, here is my new suggestion for the Forth mascot --- a pigeon! --- not likely to go extinct despite people's fondest wishes, and has a tendency to poop in your eye!

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#58364

Den lördag 29 april 2017 kl. 16:36:27 UTC+2 skrev Julian Fondren:
> On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 8:03:40 AM UTC-5, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> > You don't want "a self-important or didactic style" --- well, that leaves out Alex McDonald, Julien Fondren, Rudy Velthuis, etc..
> ...
> > I think the squirrel would be the perfect mascot for the Forth-200x committee, as their goal seems to be collecting nuts...
> 
> Let's all take a moment to appreciate it that it is *Hugh* who is
> saying such things.
> 
> This is why I don't bother with software filtering of people who are
> merely unpleasant, and not actually spamming or posting malicious
> links. Wetware filtering works well enough and it still gives you an
> occasional laugh.
> 
> On topic, not all languages have mascots (or good mascots -- can you
> even remember the details of that black/white/red arrow-thing with
> arms that Sun came up with for Java?), but many of them have at least
> have some kind of icon or picture or animal that suggests the
> language, which people reach for when they want to easily associate
> something with the language. I'd analyze languages as falling into
> these categories:
> 
> * imageless: Forth, C, JavaScript
> 
> If you want to suggest that something is related to any of these, the
> best you can do is have a little bit of code. FORTH LOVE IF HONK THEN
> 
> * self-representing: Lua, Python, Ruby
> 
> As represented by: the moon (lua), a python (Python), a ruby (Ruby)
> 
> Although these each don't just randomly have any kind of moon or any
> kind of scene involving rubies. Lua's moon is very distinctive.
> 
> And rather than that arrow-thing, Java is usually suggested by a cup
> of coffee.
> 
> * random: Go, Perl, PHP
> 
> Go has a blue hamster drawn by Rob Pike's wife or something. Perl has
> a Camel that O'Reilly liked for a book cover. PHP has an elephant of
> all things.
> 
> 
> Although I place Forth as imageless, the number 4 is popular. So is
> the swap dragon -- I was suprised when it wasn't the first answer in
> this thread. Forth Inc has satellite dishes and MPE has that robot
> sculpture, but I feel like these are more about the respective
> companies than about the language.
> 
> The original swap dragon looks a bit like a chicken to me...
> https://twitter.com/CrazyinRussia/status/844547794912337920
> 
> Personally I'd like some kind of space ship. I imagine some
> early-space enterprise mandating a lingua franca for all programming
> on a space craft, to better permit a single person to be able to
> understand, dig into, and troubleshoot every single component (at
> least until he bolts on some third-party thrusters). Forth can go low,
> go high, go 'safe' while leaving an access panel protected only
> by thumb screws. The only real-world weakness when compared to other
> languages is a lack of investment, which is solved neatly by
> investment.
> 
> Space also connects all users of Forth. Some of them have actually
> gone into space. Others (see previous paragraph) have their heads at
> least that far into the clouds.

Charles Moore and Forth Inc and other can be proud over their participation in the space programs, but certainly also other languages has being used in space. All the time emphasizing on such things isn't the best strategy to spread Forth among programmers. To explain the advantages of Forth is important but it shouldn't be pointed out anytime anyone sees a Forth mascot. A mascot is psychological, it shouldn't create resistance from an attitude, it should just be there as a mark associated vid the idea of Forth.

It isn't at all necessary with a mascot, but a good one doesn't doesn't harm at all but welcome new forthers. I think.

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#58365

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 10:49:43 AM UTC-5, lehs wrote:
> 
> Charles Moore and Forth Inc and other can be proud over their participation in the space programs, but certainly also other languages has being used in space. All the time emphasizing on such things isn't the best strategy to spread Forth among programmers. To explain the advantages of Forth is important but it shouldn't be pointed out anytime anyone sees a Forth mascot. A mascot is psychological, it shouldn't create resistance from an attitude, it should just be there as a mark associated vid the idea of Forth.
> 
> It isn't at all necessary with a mascot, but a good one doesn't doesn't harm at all but welcome new forthers. I think.

Yes, I agree. 'Harm' is bad, after all. If you say that Forth is
actually better than other languages, then you'll offend people who
don't yet know Forth, and they'll reply by resentfully sticking to
whatever they're currently using. It is much better to avoid saying
that Forth has any advantages at all. It is merely a single color of
the rainbow, a single item on the menu, pick whatever is to your taste
and don't worry about what your fellow chooses.

This reminds me of a development in the Perl community. At one time
perl.com had a 'Perl versus the world' section in which it argued that
programmers should use Perl instead of e.g. Tcl, for a list of reasons.
At one time Tom Christiansen was prominent - and he was caustic, he
insulted people, he was kind of a jerk in his arguments. Perl evolved
past this period, and today that 'versus' page is long gone, there's
nobody like that Tom guy around, and there's nobody who says that Perl
particularly good, and when people produce any kind of material trying
to promote the language, it's always something like Perl6's butterfly
logo, designed to appeal to young girls. Enough people have praised
that last decision that I can no longer find that "young girl"
explanation easily, but I did quickly find on https://perl6.org/about/
this text: "Camelia as the logo for Perl 6 and perl6.org is not
negotiable."

Naturally, after this change of tone, Perl's popularity...

huh.

Well I guess it's in a death spiral.

That's not quite what I was expecting.

There's probably no possible explanation for that.

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#58487

> Duh, a squirrel.  It's so obvious ...

Yes, a squirrel fits nicely. I love the idea !

After some thought, a racoon also came to my mind,
but this is already the Minix mascot.

Matthias

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#58489

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 1:48:27 PM UTC+2, Matthias Koch wrote:
> > Duh, a squirrel.  It's so obvious ...
> 
> Yes, a squirrel fits nicely. I love the idea !
> 
> After some thought, a racoon also came to my mind,
> but this is already the Minix mascot.
> 
> Matthias

Hi All,

How about a Pushmi-pullyu?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmp-ITOI0-I
If even speaks a dialect of Camel...
This works for me on so many levels ;-)

Cheers,
Howerd

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