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CGI Scripting in Forth

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  CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-15 15:58 -0700
    Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 08:15 +0300
      Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 12:07 -0700
        Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-16 13:03 -0700
          Re: CGI Scripting in Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-16 11:13 -1000
            Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-16 14:23 -0700
              Re: CGI Scripting in Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-16 13:34 -1000
                Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-16 18:26 -0700
                  Re: CGI Scripting in Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 22:44 -0400
                    Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-16 20:02 -0700
                      Re: CGI Scripting in Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 00:33 -0400
                        Re: CGI Scripting in Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-17 07:14 +0000
                      Re: CGI Scripting in Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-16 21:26 -1000
                        Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-17 10:36 -0700
                  Re: CGI Scripting in Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-16 21:06 -1000
                    Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-17 00:12 -0700
                      Re: CGI Scripting in Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-16 21:42 -1000
        Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 19:26 +0300
    Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 04:24 -0700
    Re: CGI Scripting in Forth josv@planet.nl - 2015-10-16 07:50 -0700
      Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 10:01 -0700
        Re: CGI Scripting in Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-16 08:20 -1000
          Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 11:33 -0700
    Re: CGI Scripting in Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-17 17:18 +0000
      Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 11:37 -0700
        Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 11:59 -0700
    Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 11:53 -0700
      Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-20 12:09 -0700
        Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 12:19 -0700
          Re: CGI Scripting in Forth Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-28 11:51 -0700

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#42658

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:51:01 AM UTC-7, jo...@planet.nl wrote:

> How many users will use the system concurrently?

Another good question, and of the sort I hope will be written
into this thread.

I remember that PolyForth had multiuser ability.  Could this be
adapted for multiple visitors to a web server?  Would it be desirable?

Jason

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#42660

On 10/16/15 7:01 AM, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 7:51:01 AM UTC-7, jo...@planet.nl wrote:
>
>> How many users will use the system concurrently?
>
> Another good question, and of the sort I hope will be written
> into this thread.
>
> I remember that PolyForth had multiuser ability.  Could this be
> adapted for multiple visitors to a web server?  Would it be desirable?

Yes, depending on exactly what capabilities you want a "user" to have. 
polyFORTH allowed multiple users full Forth programmability in a private 
dictionary, because in those days a "terminal" was a dumb device. 
Nowadays one can expect "users" to have a lot of local capability, so it 
is usually more appropriate to do the programming locally and have the 
server provide something like access to a central database or other 
resource.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#42661

I have in my notes the following links, if you care to take a look.


Forth Script - web scripting engine
http://sourceforge.net/projects/forth-script/


webserver - more recent, written in SwiftForth
http://www.logix-controls.com/SwiftForth/default.asp?dirpath=/WebServer


SaneForth FTP Server
http://gvbailey.com/


MPE Powernet Telnet Server
http://www.mpeforth.com/powernet.htm


WinSock - Windows Sockets API 
( Berkeley-like interface ) for SwiftForth ANS Forth
http://www.inventio.co.uk/wsa.f


Much of this is very minimal, which is appropriate for
embedded systems.  That's just fine.

Jason

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#42685

Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> writes:
>I don't 
>think that security would be an issue for me as I am
>versed enough to avoid such problems.

Possible, but not easy.

>One concern for me is that many of my clients use cheap
>hosting.  On these cheap hosting machines there is 
>something called shared hosting, which means that more
>than one customer leases use of the same box which sits
>in the warehouse full of computers owned by the hosting
>company.  They probably don't want you to install weird
>programming languages that they don't know about.

You rent a virtual machine where you have full control, and then
install any software you want on it (they may only give you a limited
choice of OSes, but you can install any software on the OS).

>One thing that comes to mind is using gforth. A very long
>time ago I remember experimenting with this and having to
>use a bash #! control "word" in the script that I was
>running to start it up.  But then again I vaguely remember 
>trying this experiment again, to no avail and then contacting 
>my cheap hosting company and having them tell me that I was 
>not allowed to run gforth.  So security gets tighter and
>life gets more restrictive as time goes by.  Does it help?

If you rent extra-cheap and all the customers run in the same OS
image, then yes, you can get such limitations (and many more), but if
you rent a virtual machine, then you don't.

>So, if I am using a hosting company they are probably going
>to provide or only be willing to accommodate Linux or Windows.
>This means that FOS is out of the question, at least and unless 
>you are willing to point out a company willing to host a FOS 
>box.

If you provide them with an image for the OS for the VM software they
are using, even that may be possible.

>CGI would be necessary.  I would then need HTTP.  HTTPS might 
>be nice to have.

From what I have read, it may become a necessity in the
not-too-distant future.

About CGI, I did some work in that direction in 2011 (extracting and
decoding the data passed in a CGI request).  I did not find a good way
to package it up at the time, and I had no need, so I did not pursue
it further.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2015: http://www.rigwit.co.uk/EuroForth2015/

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#42718

On Saturday, October 17, 2015 at 10:48:15 AM UTC-7, Anton Ertl wrote:

> If you provide them with an image for the OS for the VM software they
> are using, even that may be possible.

So, this may be a path to write or create a new Forth, if I was
so inclined.  I wonder what VM software systems I should consider?

> About CGI, I did some work in that direction in 2011 (extracting and
> decoding the data passed in a CGI request).  I did not find a good way
> to package it up at the time, and I had no need, so I did not pursue
> it further.

I am not familiar enough with the topic to be able to know if there 
are alternatives to CGI as far as creating a webpage with which I
can get user input and then be able to respond to that input.

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#42721

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 11:37:25 AM UTC-7, Jason Damisch wrote:

> I am not familiar enough with the topic to be able to know if there 
> are alternatives to CGI as far as creating a webpage with which I
> can get user input and then be able to respond to that input.

Probably the user will only be using a common web browser such
as Firefox or Chrome, so that will be the determining factor.
Giving the user a custom application to communicate with the
server with may be desireable at some point, but lets not consider
that for the moment.

Jason

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#42720

On Thursday, October 15, 2015 at 3:58:59 PM UTC-7, Jason Damisch wrote:

> As a Forth guy and somebody who creates websites for 
> a living, I am interested in using Forth in place of
> PHP or Perl.  

Ok, lets say I have decided on using a $20 or so a month
virtual Linux box and have decided to put Gforth on it,
just so I have something to try.  I am also open to other
alternatives.  My point of interface is CGI and I am using
HTML with forms for my user input.  

I am familiar with using the "ok" command line prompt in
Forth, and with Word to Word testing. 

My questions now relate to how I am going to develop my
application.  I know that some people like to install a
server on their local machine and then develop their server
code on their local machine and then deploy afterwards.
I, however, want my development environment to be the same 
as my production environment, as in the exact same one. So,
I want to log into the virtual machine to be able to program
it.  

Would I use Telnet to do so?  Would I just talk to gForth or
another Forth using Telnet?  

How would I know if my virtual machine crashes or if my Forth
application crashes?  How would I know to reset it, and then
start to debug it?  How is a virtual machine or a Forth running
on a virtual machine reset? How would I know other than user 
complaints that there was an issue, and then to try to resolve it?  
Could I set something up so that a text message is sent to my
cell phone if either the Forth or the virtual Linux goes belly 
flop? Could I reset from the cell phone?  Could it reset itself
under some circumstances? Could I save logs on the virtual machine 
of all user input and output so that I could possibly trace the 
problem back to the original cause?  What would I need to know, 
coming purely from a background of using Forth on a local machine, 
to be able to transition to writing server code?

Also what about multiple concurrent visitors.  Are these handled
like old style Forth tasks with user variables and such?

I apologize if these questions seem naive, but I am am trying to
gain a preliminary background on the subject.

Thank You for any thoughts in regard to this topic.

Jason

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#42722

Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> writes:
> Ok, lets say I have decided on using a $20 or so a month
> virtual Linux box and have decided to put Gforth on it,

I think this is not a good approach for you, getting an unmanaged VPS
like that.  They are very flexible but you need a reasonable amount of
Linux and server operation knowledge to use one.  You might get one to
play with / learn on (I'd suggest a cheaper one) but I don't think
you're currently ready to run production sites on them for paying
customers who will be calling you at midnight if something goes wrong.

You're best off with shared hosting (that means the site operator keeps
the web server running) and there are places that will let you install
software like gforth on a shared server.  webfaction.com is supposed to
be good (I haven't used them though) and I think buyshared.com will also
let you install stuff.  I haven't used buyshared web hosting but their
parent company (buyvm.net) is a well regarded VPS host.

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#42723

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 12:10:01 PM UTC-7, Paul Rubin wrote:

> I think this is not a good approach for you, getting an unmanaged VPS
> like that.  They are very flexible but you need a reasonable amount of

I will put your suggestions into my notes.  Thanks.

Jason

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#42922

Here is something

http://forth.org/programming.html

Using Forth for CGI on Web servers
 - Forms handler for email
 - Forms handler for joining FIG

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