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OT: Farewell Windows

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  OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 04:28 -0700
    Re: OT: Farewell Windows djc <ciesinger@gmx.net> - 2015-08-07 08:35 -0700
    Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-07 10:51 -0700
      Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-07 21:35 +0200
        Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-07 23:38 +0200
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-08 00:34 +0200
        Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-07 15:50 -0700
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 16:09 -0700
            Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 16:23 -0700
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-08 01:34 +0200
            Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-07 22:46 -0700
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-08 01:52 +0200
            Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-07 22:43 -0700
              Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-08 11:32 +0200
                Re: OT: Farewell Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-08 14:37 +0000
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-08 23:04 +0200
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-08-09 09:52 +0100
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-09 02:04 -0700
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-09 14:33 -0700
                Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-08 08:32 -0700
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-08 22:28 +0200
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-09 04:09 +0200
                Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-09 04:52 -0400
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-09 14:53 -0700
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-10 01:15 +0200
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-09 20:46 -0400
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-09 17:56 -0700
                        Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-11 00:41 +0200
                          Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-10 21:44 -0700
                            Re: OT: Farewell Windows hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-10 21:53 -0700
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-09 15:50 -1000
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-09 19:26 -0700
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-10 07:41 +0000
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-10 06:30 -0400
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-10 06:30 -0400
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 05:02 -0700
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-08-10 21:45 -0700
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-11 02:20 -0400
                        Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-11 08:30 +0100
                        Re: OT: Farewell Windows "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-08-16 12:59 +1000
                          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-17 00:01 +0200
                            Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-17 18:45 -0700
            Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-07 23:23 -0700
              Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-08 08:35 +0200
                Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-08 00:10 -0700
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-08 09:52 +0200
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 01:13 -0700
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-09 04:45 -0400
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-09 14:26 -0700
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-10 01:12 +0200
              Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-09 04:41 -0400
                Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-09 14:20 -0700
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-10 00:40 +0200
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-09 19:49 -0400
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-10 02:09 +0200
                        Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-09 20:51 -0400
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows "Rod Pemberton" <boo@fasdfrewar.cdm> - 2015-08-08 02:59 -0400
        Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-07 16:38 -0700
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-08 01:51 +0200
            Re: OT: Farewell Windows Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2015-08-08 07:46 +0300
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-08-07 22:49 -0700
      Re: OT: Farewell Windows humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-08-10 23:28 -0700
        Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 02:24 -0700
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 03:10 -0700
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-11 13:57 +0200
            Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 05:12 -0700
            Re: OT: Farewell Windows Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-08-11 15:17 +0200
              Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:04 -0700
                Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-11 22:04 +0200
                  Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 05:42 -0700
                    Re: OT: Farewell Windows Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2015-08-12 08:33 -0500
                      Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 07:21 -0700
                        Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 07:47 -0700
                          Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:06 -0700
                            Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 08:07 -0700
              Re: OT: Farewell Windows Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-11 08:07 -0700
              Re: OT: Farewell Windows Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-11 21:58 +0200
          Re: OT: Farewell Windows anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-11 13:11 +0000

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#41193

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 7:38:48 PM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote:
> I've used Linux a number of times. I can get on okay with it for day-to-day tasks. It's the more advanced stuff that I get lost with. Adding drivers,  setting up networking, printers,  that sort of thing. Also,  the file system confuses me. From what I've heard,  it's actually superior to Windows,  with devices being mapped into the file system as if they are files or directories. But I have all this to learn and to be honest,  given the choice,  I'd really rather not!  For example,  if I want to access a directory on computer B from computer A across my lan, it's really simple in Windows to create a network share on B and a mapped drive on A so that I can access that network directory as if it's a drive (for example I can call it Z: )
> 
> I've really no idea where to start with all this stuff in Linux.  And at 44 years old,  I wish I didn't have to. But I refuse to use the absolute insult that is Windows 10. Not doing it. I can only think that the lunatics really have taken over the Microsoft asylum. 
> 
> Previously I've always used Ubuntu for my Linux ventures . Installation was as simple as could be. No problems at all. However I'm hearing that Ubuntu has gone a bit bullshitty with Amazonware and the like installed which feels spywareish to me.
> 
> I'm hoping to use Mint and I hope it will provide as much access to the underlying Linux system through the GUI as possible.
> 
> (Apologies for line lengths. Posted via mobile phone)

Thanks, Mark!

Now I am not feeling alone anymore!

I tried Linux Mint 16 Cinnamon once. Didn't work on my PC.

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#41273

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 8:51:21 PM UTC+3, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 7:28:35 AM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote:
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/06/microsoft_vacates_moral_high_ground_for_the_data_slurpers_cesspit/
> > 
> > Windows 10? Screw that. No thank-you-very-much.
> > 
> > I'll be switching to Mint when I retire my current laptop. It's
> > going to be painful, but I'll just have to do it.
> 
> Thanks for this interesting link, Mark!
> 
> Recently a friend from Australia wrote I should buy a cheap Windows 8 tablet (80$ at Walmart) to run my MSP430-IDE on it. I was stunned when I discovered that I could only get access to this W8 by using a Microsoft Outlook account, so Microsoft gets instantly access to all my data. Your link now confirms my observation.
> 
> A special setting which I needed didn't work, because it expected a keyboard, so I didn't further use this tablet. Hard to use it anyway with my big fingers. 
> 
> Since a while I have decided to stay with Windows XP. 
> I don't have any problems with viruses - I am using "Malwarebytes" - and now I upgraded my laptop from 40GB to 80GB using CloneZilla, which I ordered with the new HDD. 
> 
> I have enough spare parts for my laptops, so I don't have to worry for the next ten years or so. 
> 
> But there is one thing remaining:
> Not everybody is able to use Linux - for me it is way to complicated and too much to learn - so there is a need for a new OS or even a new computer system.
> 
> Of course there is the Mac OS, but Apple is abandoning their old customers too, and worse than Microsoft, by making their hardware obsolete.
> 
> It is time to design an open computer system which everybody who likes to have one can build it (or buy it), having a modular open source design.
> Operating System: Forth, of course, to make software readable and understandable.

Hi!

To get the flavour of linux (or unix) get a look at
"The Unix Programming Environment" of Brian W. Kernighan and Rob Pike.
It is a old book, but is a easy-reading one.

If such an environment suits your needs, as an alternative to gnu-linux,
you can try open-bsd (at www.openbsd.org). Here link to system requirements:

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#FirstSys

Is easy to setup as a desktop, have good manuals. Not as many packages
as linux distros (see debian which now has 43000).

Have a nice day,
humptydumpty

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#41276

On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 07:28:28 UTC+1, humptydumpty  wrote:
> On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 8:51:21 PM UTC+3, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 7:28:35 AM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote:
> > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/06/microsoft_vacates_moral_high_ground_for_the_data_slurpers_cesspit/
> > > 
> > > Windows 10? Screw that. No thank-you-very-much.
> > > 
> > > I'll be switching to Mint when I retire my current laptop. It's
> > > going to be painful, but I'll just have to do it.
> > 
> > Thanks for this interesting link, Mark!
> > 
> > Recently a friend from Australia wrote I should buy a cheap Windows 8 tablet (80$ at Walmart) to run my MSP430-IDE on it. I was stunned when I discovered that I could only get access to this W8 by using a Microsoft Outlook account, so Microsoft gets instantly access to all my data. Your link now confirms my observation.
> > 
> > A special setting which I needed didn't work, because it expected a keyboard, so I didn't further use this tablet. Hard to use it anyway with my big fingers. 
> > 
> > Since a while I have decided to stay with Windows XP. 
> > I don't have any problems with viruses - I am using "Malwarebytes" - and now I upgraded my laptop from 40GB to 80GB using CloneZilla, which I ordered with the new HDD. 
> > 
> > I have enough spare parts for my laptops, so I don't have to worry for the next ten years or so. 
> > 
> > But there is one thing remaining:
> > Not everybody is able to use Linux - for me it is way to complicated and too much to learn - so there is a need for a new OS or even a new computer system.
> > 
> > Of course there is the Mac OS, but Apple is abandoning their old customers too, and worse than Microsoft, by making their hardware obsolete.
> > 
> > It is time to design an open computer system which everybody who likes to have one can build it (or buy it), having a modular open source design.
> > Operating System: Forth, of course, to make software readable and understandable.
> 
> Hi!
> 
> To get the flavour of linux (or unix) get a look at
> "The Unix Programming Environment" of Brian W. Kernighan and Rob Pike.
> It is a old book, but is a easy-reading one.
> 
> If such an environment suits your needs, as an alternative to gnu-linux,
> you can try open-bsd (at www.openbsd.org). Here link to system requirements:
> 
> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#FirstSys
> 
> Is easy to setup as a desktop, have good manuals. Not as many packages
> as linux distros (see debian which now has 43000).
> 
> Have a nice day,
> humptydumpty

Thanks!

At the moment, I cannot make up my mind between:

* SUSE Linux (looks too enterprisey for me)
* Ubuntu (used before, works very nicely on my laptop)
* Mint (haven't tried it - heard good things)

Ubuntu ran well on my machine when I had it installed.
I didn't like the update to the GUI - it kind of went
all Fischer Price (huge icons) and they introduced an
Amazon spy ^M^M^M search bar that went down badly with
the community.

I'll be burning some DVDs today and will try out some live
installations (running from the DVD) to see what systems
will/won't come up on my latop. The alternative is to buy
a new laptop. I'm reluctant to do that because my current
machine works perfectly. It currently runs Windows 7 and
really does run it very well indeed. No problems whatsoever.
It's ironic that Windows 7 (and 8, probably 10, too) will
run on a ten year old laptop, but modern versions of
Linux won't. Still, I do think it's good that Linux is
looking forwards in terms of supporting hardware. In 
previous years it was always lagging Windows. 

Where is Linux these days in terms of supporting things
like printers? I have a wireless printer (Canon) in the
house. Previously, I just gave up completely when trying
to get printers to work. I found that most printer 
manufacturers simply don't know about Linux. They've
never heard of it. The driver that comes with the printer
(for windows) is execllent.

Also, last time I looked in various Linux "help" forums
(a few years ago, admittedly) they were *extrememly*
hostile places.

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#41278

On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 at 12:24:59 PM UTC+3, Mark Wills wrote:
> On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 07:28:28 UTC+1, humptydumpty  wrote:
> > On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 8:51:21 PM UTC+3, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 7:28:35 AM UTC-4, Mark Wills wrote:
> > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/06/microsoft_vacates_moral_high_ground_for_the_data_slurpers_cesspit/
> > > > 
> > > > Windows 10? Screw that. No thank-you-very-much.
> > > > 
> > > > I'll be switching to Mint when I retire my current laptop. It's
> > > > going to be painful, but I'll just have to do it.
> > > 
> > > Thanks for this interesting link, Mark!
> > > 
> > > Recently a friend from Australia wrote I should buy a cheap Windows 8 tablet (80$ at Walmart) to run my MSP430-IDE on it. I was stunned when I discovered that I could only get access to this W8 by using a Microsoft Outlook account, so Microsoft gets instantly access to all my data. Your link now confirms my observation.
> > > 
> > > A special setting which I needed didn't work, because it expected a keyboard, so I didn't further use this tablet. Hard to use it anyway with my big fingers. 
> > > 
> > > Since a while I have decided to stay with Windows XP. 
> > > I don't have any problems with viruses - I am using "Malwarebytes" - and now I upgraded my laptop from 40GB to 80GB using CloneZilla, which I ordered with the new HDD. 
> > > 
> > > I have enough spare parts for my laptops, so I don't have to worry for the next ten years or so. 
> > > 
> > > But there is one thing remaining:
> > > Not everybody is able to use Linux - for me it is way to complicated and too much to learn - so there is a need for a new OS or even a new computer system.
> > > 
> > > Of course there is the Mac OS, but Apple is abandoning their old customers too, and worse than Microsoft, by making their hardware obsolete.
> > > 
> > > It is time to design an open computer system which everybody who likes to have one can build it (or buy it), having a modular open source design.
> > > Operating System: Forth, of course, to make software readable and understandable.
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > To get the flavour of linux (or unix) get a look at
> > "The Unix Programming Environment" of Brian W. Kernighan and Rob Pike.
> > It is a old book, but is a easy-reading one.
> > 
> > If such an environment suits your needs, as an alternative to gnu-linux,
> > you can try open-bsd (at www.openbsd.org). Here link to system requirements:
> > 
> > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#FirstSys
> > 
> > Is easy to setup as a desktop, have good manuals. Not as many packages
> > as linux distros (see debian which now has 43000).
> > 
> > Have a nice day,
> > humptydumpty
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> At the moment, I cannot make up my mind between:
> 
> * SUSE Linux (looks too enterprisey for me)
> * Ubuntu (used before, works very nicely on my laptop)
> * Mint (haven't tried it - heard good things)
> 
> Ubuntu ran well on my machine when I had it installed.
> I didn't like the update to the GUI - it kind of went
> all Fischer Price (huge icons) and they introduced an
> Amazon spy ^M^M^M search bar that went down badly with
> the community.
> 
> I'll be burning some DVDs today and will try out some live
> installations (running from the DVD) to see what systems
> will/won't come up on my latop. The alternative is to buy
> a new laptop. I'm reluctant to do that because my current
> machine works perfectly. It currently runs Windows 7 and
> really does run it very well indeed. No problems whatsoever.
> It's ironic that Windows 7 (and 8, probably 10, too) will
> run on a ten year old laptop, but modern versions of
> Linux won't. Still, I do think it's good that Linux is
> looking forwards in terms of supporting hardware. In 
> previous years it was always lagging Windows. 
> 
> Where is Linux these days in terms of supporting things
> like printers? I have a wireless printer (Canon) in the
> house. Previously, I just gave up completely when trying
> to get printers to work. I found that most printer 
> manufacturers simply don't know about Linux. They've
> never heard of it. The driver that comes with the printer
> (for windows) is execllent.
> 
> Also, last time I looked in various Linux "help" forums
> (a few years ago, admittedly) they were *extrememly*
> hostile places.

Hi!

A hint - do not confuse the linux(unix)-OS with the X-window-manager.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_window_manager
Is very easy to get lost in the X-windows-managers kaleidoscope.

Before to buy a hardware, decide what linux(unix) distro you want,
consult hardware requirements on their home pages, then go buy hardware.

On deciding which distro is good to see how active is the development of
that OS, to have good hardware support, etc.

Is OK to have a look at:
   http://tldp.org/
for how-to, guides, FAQ.

Have a nice day,
humptydumpty

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#41279

Mark Wills wrote:
> It's ironic that Windows 7 (and 8, probably 10, too) will
> run on a ten year old laptop, but modern versions of
> Linux won't.

It's a bug in the particular CPU, and Linux requires a manual workaround 
(forcepae option).  It certainly would be more userfriendly if the kernel 
would do the workaround for you, automatic...

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#41280

On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 12:57:20 UTC+1, Bernd Paysan  wrote:
> Mark Wills wrote:
> > It's ironic that Windows 7 (and 8, probably 10, too) will
> > run on a ten year old laptop, but modern versions of
> > Linux won't.
> 
> It's a bug in the particular CPU, and Linux requires a manual workaround 
> (forcepae option).  It certainly would be more userfriendly if the kernel 
> would do the workaround for you, automatic...
> 
> -- 
> Bernd Paysan
> "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
> net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
> http://bernd-paysan.de/

Indeed. I'm currently posting this from Firefox, in Linux Lubuntu
running on my old laptop. The Ubuntu family of distros (Unbuntu,
Lubuntu, and Xubuntu) all have quite an easy work-around for the
forcepae option.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PAE

I'm currently running in a VM (Oracle Virtual Box) under Windows
7. It's a bit laggy, but I would expect that in a VM on an old
machine such as this. Lubuntu has found all my hardware (with the
exception of the fingerprint reader - well, it doesn't do anything
when I swipe my finger on it!). Firefox works out of the box, 
including YouTube. Audio is working. All seems fine.

Lubuntu does feel a little stripped-down for me though (the software
centre is fully operational, so it seems very easy indeed to add
the various software applications that I'd want).

I'll now try Xubuntu. 

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#41281

On 8/11/15 1:57 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> Mark Wills wrote:
>> It's ironic that Windows 7 (and 8, probably 10, too) will
>> run on a ten year old laptop, but modern versions of
>> Linux won't.
>
> It's a bug in the particular CPU, and Linux requires a manual workaround
> (forcepae option).  It certainly would be more userfriendly if the kernel
> would do the workaround for you, automatic...
>
Windows 8 & 10 require PAE, as well. I would like to see 10 year old 
laptop that would run Win7 as I remember 1GB is minimum for 32 bit...
BTW I have pointed out two Linux versions that can run on 256MB machine 
with no PAE. (Arch & Manjaro)

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#41284

On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 14:17:07 UTC+1, Melzzzzz  wrote:
> On 8/11/15 1:57 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> > Mark Wills wrote:
> >> It's ironic that Windows 7 (and 8, probably 10, too) will
> >> run on a ten year old laptop, but modern versions of
> >> Linux won't.
> >
> > It's a bug in the particular CPU, and Linux requires a manual workaround
> > (forcepae option).  It certainly would be more userfriendly if the kernel
> > would do the workaround for you, automatic...
> >
> Windows 8 & 10 require PAE, as well. I would like to see 10 year old 
> laptop that would run Win7 as I remember 1GB is minimum for 32 bit...
> BTW I have pointed out two Linux versions that can run on 256MB machine 
> with no PAE. (Arch & Manjaro)

Here's my machine:

http://www.toshiba.co.uk/discontinued-products/tecra-m5-103/

I've upgraded the RAM to 4GB and fitted a SD Hard Disk.

Runs Windows 7 no problem at all. Would you like me to post a
video of it?

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#41290

Mark Wills wrote:
> Here's my machine:
> 
> http://www.toshiba.co.uk/discontinued-products/tecra-m5-103/
> 
> I've upgraded the RAM to 4GB and fitted a SD Hard Disk.
> 
> Runs Windows 7 no problem at all. Would you like me to post a
> video of it?

And Linux refuses?  This is a Core Duo variant, so it's not Banias with it's 
PAE bug.  Unless you try an x64 Linux, it should run Linux fine (Core Duo is 
still x86, no 64 bit arm64 architecture; that came with Core2).

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#41294

On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 21:04:16 UTC+1, Bernd Paysan  wrote:
> Mark Wills wrote:
> > Here's my machine:
> > 
> > http://www.toshiba.co.uk/discontinued-products/tecra-m5-103/
> > 
> > I've upgraded the RAM to 4GB and fitted a SD Hard Disk.
> > 
> > Runs Windows 7 no problem at all. Would you like me to post a
> > video of it?
> 
> And Linux refuses?  This is a Core Duo variant, so it's not Banias with it's 
> PAE bug.  Unless you try an x64 Linux, it should run Linux fine (Core Duo is 
> still x86, no 64 bit arm64 architecture; that came with Core2).
> 
> -- 
> Bernd Paysan
> "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
> net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
> http://bernd-paysan.de/

I know. It's a little strange. Still, the error produced on the various
distros I tried all barfed on the "requires PAE" type error message.
The Ubuntu famuily of distros have a nice way to override PAE by pressing
TAB at the boot screen, you then make sure the end of the options line
reads:

forcepae -- forcepae

and boom... works. I tried it through Oracle's Virtual Box (which uses the
underlying native CPU - it does not implement a virtual CPU in software).

I tried an install from USB (wrote the ISO to bootable USB stick using
UUnetbootin (or whatever it's called)) but it won't install. I was 
hoping it would give me an option to install side-by-side along with
Windows 7. I don't know if it's because I'm booting from USB, or if
there's something strange with the Windows 7 partition. I've 
successfully dual-booted this same machine before (with a mechanincal
hard disk, and with WinXP) so it's not the machine.

I'll try writing the ISO to an actual DVD and give that a try.

I tried both Lubuntu and Xubuntu yesterday. I really liked Xubuntu;
very slick, without going over the top. Perfectly tuned for mouse/
pointer based machines. Ubuntu (at least in terms of it's GUI) seems
to be headed towards multi-headed touch-screen systems.

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#41297

Mark Wills wrote:
> [snip]
>
> I know. It's a little strange. Still, the error produced on the various
> distros I tried all barfed on the "requires PAE" type error message.
> The Ubuntu famuily of distros have a nice way to override PAE by pressing
> TAB at the boot screen, you then make sure the end of the options line
> reads:
>
> forcepae -- forcepae
>
> and boom... works. I tried it through Oracle's Virtual Box (which uses the
> underlying native CPU - it does not implement a virtual CPU in software).
>
> I tried an install from USB (wrote the ISO to bootable USB stick using
> UUnetbootin (or whatever it's called)) but it won't install. I was
> hoping it would give me an option to install side-by-side along with
> Windows 7. I don't know if it's because I'm booting from USB, or if
> there's something strange with the Windows 7 partition. I've
> successfully dual-booted this same machine before (with a mechanincal
> hard disk, and with WinXP) so it's not the machine.
>
> I'll try writing the ISO to an actual DVD and give that a try.

Debian {parent of *buntu family} discourages use of Unetbootin in 
favor of copying to USB stick with cp or dd. 
[https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb]

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#41298

On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 14:33:19 UTC+1, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> Mark Wills wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> > I know. It's a little strange. Still, the error produced on the various
> > distros I tried all barfed on the "requires PAE" type error message.
> > The Ubuntu famuily of distros have a nice way to override PAE by pressing
> > TAB at the boot screen, you then make sure the end of the options line
> > reads:
> >
> > forcepae -- forcepae
> >
> > and boom... works. I tried it through Oracle's Virtual Box (which uses the
> > underlying native CPU - it does not implement a virtual CPU in software).
> >
> > I tried an install from USB (wrote the ISO to bootable USB stick using
> > UUnetbootin (or whatever it's called)) but it won't install. I was
> > hoping it would give me an option to install side-by-side along with
> > Windows 7. I don't know if it's because I'm booting from USB, or if
> > there's something strange with the Windows 7 partition. I've
> > successfully dual-booted this same machine before (with a mechanincal
> > hard disk, and with WinXP) so it's not the machine.
> >
> > I'll try writing the ISO to an actual DVD and give that a try.
> 
> Debian {parent of *buntu family} discourages use of Unetbootin in 
> favor of copying to USB stick with cp or dd. 
> [https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb]

Many thanks, Richard. I'll follow that up.

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#41299

On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 15:21:46 UTC+1, Mark Wills  wrote:
> On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 14:33:19 UTC+1, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> > Mark Wills wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > I know. It's a little strange. Still, the error produced on the various
> > > distros I tried all barfed on the "requires PAE" type error message.
> > > The Ubuntu famuily of distros have a nice way to override PAE by pressing
> > > TAB at the boot screen, you then make sure the end of the options line
> > > reads:
> > >
> > > forcepae -- forcepae
> > >
> > > and boom... works. I tried it through Oracle's Virtual Box (which uses the
> > > underlying native CPU - it does not implement a virtual CPU in software).
> > >
> > > I tried an install from USB (wrote the ISO to bootable USB stick using
> > > UUnetbootin (or whatever it's called)) but it won't install. I was
> > > hoping it would give me an option to install side-by-side along with
> > > Windows 7. I don't know if it's because I'm booting from USB, or if
> > > there's something strange with the Windows 7 partition. I've
> > > successfully dual-booted this same machine before (with a mechanincal
> > > hard disk, and with WinXP) so it's not the machine.
> > >
> > > I'll try writing the ISO to an actual DVD and give that a try.
> > 
> > Debian {parent of *buntu family} discourages use of Unetbootin in 
> > favor of copying to USB stick with cp or dd. 
> > [https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb]
> 
> Many thanks, Richard. I'll follow that up.

Seem to be installing fine now that I'm using the procedure noted
above. Thanks Richard!

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#41300

On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 15:47:09 UTC+1, Mark Wills  wrote:
> On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 15:21:46 UTC+1, Mark Wills  wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 14:33:19 UTC+1, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> > > Mark Wills wrote:
> > > > [snip]
> > > >
> > > > I know. It's a little strange. Still, the error produced on the various
> > > > distros I tried all barfed on the "requires PAE" type error message.
> > > > The Ubuntu famuily of distros have a nice way to override PAE by pressing
> > > > TAB at the boot screen, you then make sure the end of the options line
> > > > reads:
> > > >
> > > > forcepae -- forcepae
> > > >
> > > > and boom... works. I tried it through Oracle's Virtual Box (which uses the
> > > > underlying native CPU - it does not implement a virtual CPU in software).
> > > >
> > > > I tried an install from USB (wrote the ISO to bootable USB stick using
> > > > UUnetbootin (or whatever it's called)) but it won't install. I was
> > > > hoping it would give me an option to install side-by-side along with
> > > > Windows 7. I don't know if it's because I'm booting from USB, or if
> > > > there's something strange with the Windows 7 partition. I've
> > > > successfully dual-booted this same machine before (with a mechanincal
> > > > hard disk, and with WinXP) so it's not the machine.
> > > >
> > > > I'll try writing the ISO to an actual DVD and give that a try.
> > > 
> > > Debian {parent of *buntu family} discourages use of Unetbootin in 
> > > favor of copying to USB stick with cp or dd. 
> > > [https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb]
> > 
> > Many thanks, Richard. I'll follow that up.
> 
> Seem to be installing fine now that I'm using the procedure noted
> above. Thanks Richard!

That's Xubuntu side-by-sider installed with Win7 on my latop.
It's bloody fast. Nice. Finds my bluetooth mouse just fine.

Only one disappointment so far: It's not mounting my 128GB SD card.
It sees it, and says it's a 128GB SD card (which is correct) but
when I double click it it says "Failed to mount 128GB Volume...
(load of gumpf)... unknown filesystem type: 'exfat'

It see's my Windows 7 partition (NTFS) just fine. So maybe I can
install something (some driver?) to let it understand EXFAT type
partitions. If anyone knows, please post. I'll google the issue
in the meantime.

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#41301

On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 16:06:13 UTC+1, Mark Wills  wrote:
> On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 15:47:09 UTC+1, Mark Wills  wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 15:21:46 UTC+1, Mark Wills  wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 12 August 2015 14:33:19 UTC+1, Richard Owlett  wrote:
> > > > Mark Wills wrote:
> > > > > [snip]
> > > > >
> > > > > I know. It's a little strange. Still, the error produced on the various
> > > > > distros I tried all barfed on the "requires PAE" type error message.
> > > > > The Ubuntu famuily of distros have a nice way to override PAE by pressing
> > > > > TAB at the boot screen, you then make sure the end of the options line
> > > > > reads:
> > > > >
> > > > > forcepae -- forcepae
> > > > >
> > > > > and boom... works. I tried it through Oracle's Virtual Box (which uses the
> > > > > underlying native CPU - it does not implement a virtual CPU in software).
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried an install from USB (wrote the ISO to bootable USB stick using
> > > > > UUnetbootin (or whatever it's called)) but it won't install. I was
> > > > > hoping it would give me an option to install side-by-side along with
> > > > > Windows 7. I don't know if it's because I'm booting from USB, or if
> > > > > there's something strange with the Windows 7 partition. I've
> > > > > successfully dual-booted this same machine before (with a mechanincal
> > > > > hard disk, and with WinXP) so it's not the machine.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll try writing the ISO to an actual DVD and give that a try.
> > > > 
> > > > Debian {parent of *buntu family} discourages use of Unetbootin in 
> > > > favor of copying to USB stick with cp or dd. 
> > > > [https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb]
> > > 
> > > Many thanks, Richard. I'll follow that up.
> > 
> > Seem to be installing fine now that I'm using the procedure noted
> > above. Thanks Richard!
> 
> That's Xubuntu side-by-sider installed with Win7 on my latop.
> It's bloody fast. Nice. Finds my bluetooth mouse just fine.
> 
> Only one disappointment so far: It's not mounting my 128GB SD card.
> It sees it, and says it's a 128GB SD card (which is correct) but
> when I double click it it says "Failed to mount 128GB Volume...
> (load of gumpf)... unknown filesystem type: 'exfat'
> 
> It see's my Windows 7 partition (NTFS) just fine. So maybe I can
> install something (some driver?) to let it understand EXFAT type
> partitions. If anyone knows, please post. I'll google the issue
> in the meantime.

Well, that didn't take long...

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-exfat.html

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#41285

On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 14:17:07 UTC+1, Melzzzzz  wrote:
> On 8/11/15 1:57 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> > Mark Wills wrote:
> >> It's ironic that Windows 7 (and 8, probably 10, too) will
> >> run on a ten year old laptop, but modern versions of
> >> Linux won't.
> >
> > It's a bug in the particular CPU, and Linux requires a manual workaround
> > (forcepae option).  It certainly would be more userfriendly if the kernel
> > would do the workaround for you, automatic...
> >
> Windows 8 & 10 require PAE, as well. I would like to see 10 year old 
> laptop that would run Win7 as I remember 1GB is minimum for 32 bit...
> BTW I have pointed out two Linux versions that can run on 256MB machine 
> with no PAE. (Arch & Manjaro)

I've just found a review of the machine online, and it's dated
2007, so maybe my machine is 8, not 10 :-)

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#41289

Melzzzzz wrote:
>> It's a bug in the particular CPU, and Linux requires a manual workaround
>> (forcepae option).  It certainly would be more userfriendly if the kernel
>> would do the workaround for you, automatic...
>>
> Windows 8 & 10 require PAE, as well. I would like to see 10 year old
> laptop that would run Win7 as I remember 1GB is minimum for 32 bit...
> BTW I have pointed out two Linux versions that can run on 256MB machine
> with no PAE. (Arch & Manjaro)

Banias has PAE.  It just claims not to have it, that's the bug.  The IMHO 
correct way to handle Banias is to set the "I have PAE" bit in its 
capabilities after you discover that it's a Banias CPU.  Windows apparently 
does this, Linux doesn't (requires the "forcepae" boot option instead).

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#41282

Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> writes:
>Where is Linux these days in terms of supporting things
>like printers?

That's more a question of where are printers in terms of supporting
standard input formats.  If a printer has an undocumented proprietary
input format, and you buy such a printer, don't complain about Linux.

I have had no problems with Linux and printing, but then I always look
for a printer with Postscript support.  Then I usually don't mess
around with any driver support for that particular printer, but just
set it up as a Postscript printer, and the printer works fine as far
as I am concerned.

If I had enough print volume to keep an inkjet from drying out and I
needed a new printer, I would buy the HP OfficeJet Pro X451dw these
days.  We have the more expensive (and slightly faster) variant X551dw
at the office and are happy with it: very fast, quiet, low-power and
cool, reportedly relatively low printing costs; for text any paper is
fine, for pictures full of ink you want inkjet paper (not really more
expensive) to avoid buckling; it's not a photo printer, though.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2015: http://www.mpeforth.com/euroforth2015/euroforth2015.htm

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