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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #16222 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-10-12 13:36 -0700 |
| Last post | 2012-10-18 23:38 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 158 — 25 participants |
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mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-12 13:36 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-12 22:49 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 00:06 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-13 22:34 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 16:46 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-14 00:24 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 19:09 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 01:46 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-15 04:25 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 05:35 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 16:43 -0400
The "memory wall" (was: mr paysan ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-15 09:28 +0000
Re: The "memory wall" (was: mr paysan ...) Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 03:02 -0700
Re: The "memory wall" (was: mr paysan ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-15 12:50 +0000
Re: The "memory wall" (was: mr paysan ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-15 14:47 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 00:10 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-18 21:53 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 01:00 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-18 22:18 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-10-19 09:11 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2012-10-15 03:17 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 16:52 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2012-10-16 02:20 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 00:13 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 00:07 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-13 20:53 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-15 15:41 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 07:01 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-15 09:31 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-15 19:51 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 17:47 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2012-10-16 11:10 +0100
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 15:55 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Syd Rumpo <usenet@nononono.co.uk> - 2012-10-16 21:31 +0100
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 17:06 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-16 20:56 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-16 23:44 -0500
Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-10-17 10:01 +0000
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-17 21:11 -0500
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 01:08 -0700
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-18 11:42 -0500
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:26 -0400
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-10-18 09:25 +0000
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-18 11:46 -0500
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:28 -0400
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-18 12:44 -0700
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-18 18:49 -0500
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 20:16 -0400
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-18 17:28 -0700
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-19 03:00 +0200
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 18:00 -0400
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-10-19 11:35 +0000
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-19 10:33 -0500
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-18 18:35 +0200
Re: Transputers, was Re: mr paysan .. gavinoshit Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-18 12:06 -0500
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 13:23 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-17 11:58 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 15:22 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-17 21:53 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 16:00 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-17 23:10 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 17:28 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-18 00:11 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:41 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 17:27 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-15 15:28 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 19:07 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 19:09 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-16 01:21 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-15 22:26 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-15 22:35 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-16 01:50 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-15 22:54 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 16:00 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-17 06:40 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 13:32 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-17 21:10 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 15:45 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-19 19:45 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 15:58 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-17 06:32 -0400
"Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-16 11:46 +0000
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2012-10-16 16:09 +0000
Re: "Too much data" rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 16:04 -0400
Re: "Too much data" Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-16 11:37 -1000
Re: "Too much data" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-17 14:00 +0000
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 13:25 -0700
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-17 14:08 +0000
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 01:31 -0700
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-18 16:42 +0000
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) Ouatu Bogdan <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 18:41 +0000
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 12:20 -0700
Re: "Too much data" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-16 21:10 -0700
Re: "Too much data" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 05:01 -0700
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 23:55 -0700
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2012-10-17 00:06 -0700
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-10-17 10:25 +0000
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-17 14:21 +0000
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-17 17:54 +0200
Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-17 15:58 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-16 01:27 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-15 08:02 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2012-10-15 11:39 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Bill Marcum <bill@nowhere.invalid> - 2012-10-21 03:31 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 17:15 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-10-16 10:00 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 00:27 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-15 17:10 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 00:30 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-16 01:38 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-15 22:48 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-15 21:18 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-10-16 21:31 +1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-16 16:56 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2012-10-16 11:26 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-17 12:30 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-17 22:35 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-17 18:15 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-10-18 16:45 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-19 00:31 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-18 22:34 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 01:01 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 01:06 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 02:16 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-19 19:51 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-19 18:25 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-20 16:49 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-20 22:49 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-19 22:02 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-20 17:07 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-20 14:48 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-21 02:56 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-20 22:30 -0700
Trains [Was: mr paysan where is your chip?] Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-21 04:46 -0500
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-18 19:28 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 00:33 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 01:00 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-19 11:45 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-10-18 18:26 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-18 08:45 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-19 00:43 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-10-22 13:07 +1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-21 19:24 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-10-22 05:15 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Anonymous <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> - 2012-10-22 14:33 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Spam@ControlQ.com - 2012-10-22 12:06 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Anonymous <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> - 2012-10-23 10:44 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-10-22 09:29 -0500
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-22 16:30 +0200
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-16 08:52 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-10-17 18:25 +1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-17 08:33 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Frank Thomason <Frank@Thomason.com> - 2012-10-17 15:31 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-10-18 12:37 -0700
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-18 15:57 -1000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-16 16:09 -0400
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? vandys@vsta.org - 2012-10-16 20:27 +0000
Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-18 23:38 -0700
Page 5 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 06:32 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: mr paysan where is your chip? where is the personal computer pwoered by paysan cpu? that runs firefox and is liek 10x faster than amd? |
| Message-ID | <k5m19a$8tr$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #16355 |
"rickman" <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message news:k5kea4$6ue$1@dont-email.me... > On 10/16/2012 1:21 AM, Rod Pemberton wrote: > > "rickman"<gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:k5i4vr$qhl$1@dont-email.me... > >> On 10/15/2012 6:28 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > > .... > > > >>> I remember finding it incredibly frustrating to not have a way (unless > >>> I missed it) to load small constants like 1 without burning several > >>> words. > >> > >> I know, but try designing a MISC sometime. There are tons of tradeoffs > >> and Chuck picked ones that often end up with multiple instructions. > >> Read his pages, he has some shortcuts that aren't so bad. Zero is just > >> DUP OR if the stack is empty or DUP DUP OR if it isn't. Minus 1 is > >> "get a zero" and -. There are some that aren't about constants. > >> Subtract is quicker if you subtract S from T instead of the > >> conventional T from S... - . + - rather than push - pop . + - > >> > > > > Instead of "DUP OR", I think you meant "DUP XOR". > > You are not conversant with the GA144 assembly language. The OR > instruction *is* an "xor". Who mentioned GA144? > > So, must you do a stack size check to determine which sequence to use? > > > > "stack_size" 0<> IF DUP THEN DUP XOR > > > > That's obtuse. > > If your code has to check the size of the stack to know if the stack is > empty you aren't can't handle programming the GA144. > > You've got bloody 64 words of combined instruction and data space. > Figure it out! > > No, you just aren't allowed to post anything about the GA144 at this > point. I'm revoking your privileges! > Do we have multiple people posting as "rickman"? I didn't post anything about the GA144, nor even the F18 that Paul mentioned. I merely corrected an incorrect statement, that a "DUP OR" clears a value. That's not true for Forth or most other languages where an "OR" is an inclusive-or. So, I corrected a statement that appeared to be incorrect to me and probably most others here. Anyone who has programmed in numerous assembly and high-level languages know that "OR" is commonly known as an inclusive-or, not as an exclusive-or which is commonly known as "XOR". This also happens to be a Forth newsgroup, not GA144 nor F18. The various Forth standards (ANS, F83, F79, fig) define OR as an inclusive-or and XOR as an exclusive-or. (See ANS 6.1.1980 and 6.1.2490) Rod Pemberton
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-16 11:46 +0000 |
| Subject | "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <2012Oct16.134654@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #16311 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>On 10/15/2012 12:31 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> The usefulness of local variables in practical Forth shows that there's
>> occasionally too much live data to do everything on the stack. In
>> interpreted Forths where the stack itself is also in memory, or in
>> compiled Forths where stack and local accesses end up using registers,
>> this works out ok. In stack hardware where locals and memory are 10x(?)
>> slower than stack accesses, overall program performance probably
>> suffers.
>
>Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that
>there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It
>has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I
>shouldn't open the factoring can of worms.
There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I
listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper
<http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>.
Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often
better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant,
using locals doesn't.
Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put
up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that
eliminates locals here as a challenge
<2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
<a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at>
<2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up
the challenge.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
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| From | Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-16 16:09 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <507d86d6$0$9209$862e30e2@ngroups.net> |
| In reply to | #16344 |
Anton Ertl wrote: <2012Oct16.134654@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> > rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that >>there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It >>has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I >>shouldn't open the factoring can of worms. > > Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put > up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that > eliminates locals here as a challenge, but nobody has taken up the challenge. For those who have trouble with message IDs: ><2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.forth/fDIecx3K4yk/gbhctrTvxuEJ ><a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.forth/rZ9Dqtlt2mU/eGh-okHZNLcJ ><2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.forth/CECdFr4jt5E/lEUpbG4XfHQJ --Josh
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-16 16:04 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" |
| Message-ID | <k5kejt$6ue$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16344 |
On 10/16/2012 7:46 AM, Anton Ertl wrote: > rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> On 10/15/2012 12:31 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: >>> The usefulness of local variables in practical Forth shows that there's >>> occasionally too much live data to do everything on the stack. In >>> interpreted Forths where the stack itself is also in memory, or in >>> compiled Forths where stack and local accesses end up using registers, >>> this works out ok. In stack hardware where locals and memory are 10x(?) >>> slower than stack accesses, overall program performance probably >>> suffers. >> >> Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that >> there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It >> has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I >> shouldn't open the factoring can of worms. > > There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I > listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper > <http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>. > Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often > better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant, > using locals doesn't. > > Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put > up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that > eliminates locals here as a challenge > <2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at> > <a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> > <2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up > the challenge. > > - anton I've never looked at how locals are implemented. For them to be reentrant, don't they have to be on the stack? What is your stack is not addressable? Do you have to build a stack in memory? That would be very awkward on the F18A. With such small memory space I think the entire issue is a "moop" point to quote George Costanza. Rick
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| From | Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-16 11:37 -1000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" |
| Message-ID | <DOednTeCm8UATuDNnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #16357 |
On 10/16/2012 10:04 AM, rickman wrote: > On 10/16/2012 7:46 AM, Anton Ertl wrote: >> rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>> On 10/15/2012 12:31 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: >>>> The usefulness of local variables in practical Forth shows that there's >>>> occasionally too much live data to do everything on the stack. In >>>> interpreted Forths where the stack itself is also in memory, or in >>>> compiled Forths where stack and local accesses end up using registers, >>>> this works out ok. In stack hardware where locals and memory are >>>> 10x(?) >>>> slower than stack accesses, overall program performance probably >>>> suffers. >>> >>> Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that >>> there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It >>> has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I >>> shouldn't open the factoring can of worms. >> >> There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I >> listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper >> <http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>. >> Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often >> better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant, >> using locals doesn't. >> >> Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put >> up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that >> eliminates locals here as a challenge >> <2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at> >> <a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> >> <2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up >> the challenge. >> >> - anton > > > I've never looked at how locals are implemented. For them to be > reentrant, don't they have to be on the stack? What is your stack is > not addressable? Do you have to build a stack in memory? That would be > very awkward on the F18A. With such small memory space I think the > entire issue is a "moop" point to quote George Costanza. Most Forth implementations of locals put them somewhere relative to the return stack for reentrancy. As for the larger point, as Anton notes, there are many ways to deal with large amounts of "live" data. In our experience, locals are occasionally useful (especially in things like managing Windows calls), but mostly not. We have never felt a need for them in embedded systems. The issues involving stack and data management as well as factoring are in the realm of Forth-specific programming skills that are part of the learning curve for programmers accustomed to other languages. The best way to summarize it is to strive for simplicity: if factoring makes your programs simpler (e.g. giving a clear name to recurrent operations) or simplifies stack management, it's good. As the FizzBuzz conversation recently showed, factoring for its own sake is not helpful. The same is true for locals: if they simplify your code, they're good. If they're a crutch for avoiding developing stack management skills, not so much. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 14:00 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" |
| Message-ID | <2012Oct17.160053@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #16357 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>I've never looked at how locals are implemented. For them to be
>reentrant, don't they have to be on the stack?
The usual implementation is to have them on the return stack, or to
have a separate locals stack.
> What is your stack is
>not addressable? Do you have to build a stack in memory? That would be
>very awkward on the F18A. With such small memory space I think the
>entire issue is a "moop" point to quote George Costanza.
If the F18A is something like a GA144 core, yes, you probably would
not use locals there. One could work on a sophisticated compiler that
uses A or B for a local or puts it on one of the stacks, but I think
that would miss the point of this architecture. There, you have A and
B for dealing with more data than can be dealt with easily with two
stacks, and the programmer is responsible for managing A and B.
I don't think that this is a good solution for large programs, but
these CPUs cannot run large programs anyway.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
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| From | humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-16 13:25 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <89d1f72c-f3dc-4efa-acd0-ab80b7f56123@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #16344 |
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:15:32 PM UTC, Anton Ertl wrote: > rickman writes: > > >On 10/15/2012 12:31 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > > >> The usefulness of local variables in practical Forth shows that there's > > >> occasionally too much live data to do everything on the stack. In > > >> interpreted Forths where the stack itself is also in memory, or in > > >> compiled Forths where stack and local accesses end up using registers, > > >> this works out ok. In stack hardware where locals and memory are 10x(?) > > >> slower than stack accesses, overall program performance probably > > >> suffers. > > > > > >Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that > > >there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It > > >has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I > > >shouldn't open the factoring can of worms. > > > > There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I > > listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper > > <http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>. > > Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often > > better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant, > > using locals doesn't. > > > > Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put > > up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that > > eliminates locals here as a challenge > > <2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at> > > <a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> > > <2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up > > the challenge. > > > > - anton > > -- > > M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html > > comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html > > New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html > > EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/ Hi Anton! A try for map-array: : do-at ( x xt[x--y] a -- y xt ) @ swap dup >R execute R> ; : mpa ( .. xt a u -- .. ) cells bounds ?DO I do-at 1 cells +LOOP drop ; Have a nice day, humptydumpty
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 14:08 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <2012Oct17.160838@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #16359 |
humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> writes:
>A try for map-array:
>
>: do-at ( x xt[x--y] a -- y xt )
> @ swap dup >R execute R> ;
>
>: mpa ( .. xt a u -- .. )
> cells bounds ?DO I do-at 1 cells +LOOP drop ;
Looks functional. But is it an improvement over
: map-array ( ... addr u xt -- ... )
\ executes xt ( ... x -- ... ) for every element of the array starting
\ at addr and containing u elements
{ xt }
cells over + swap ?do
i @ xt execute
1 cells +loop ;
?
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-18 01:31 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <7cac3f24-1b7b-4c5e-a393-1d5677066f12@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #16387 |
On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 2:14:31 PM UTC, Anton Ertl wrote:
> humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> writes:
>
> >A try for map-array:
>
> >
>
> >: do-at ( x xt[x--y] a -- y xt )
>
> > @ swap dup >R execute R> ;
>
> >
>
> >: mpa ( .. xt a u -- .. )
>
> > cells bounds ?DO I do-at 1 cells +LOOP drop ;
>
>
>
> Looks functional. But is it an improvement over
>
>
>
> : map-array ( ... addr u xt -- ... )
>
> \ executes xt ( ... x -- ... ) for every element of the array starting
>
> \ at addr and containing u elements
>
> { xt }
>
> cells over + swap ?do
>
> i @ xt execute
>
> 1 cells +loop ;
>
>
>
> ?
>
>
>
> - anton
>
> --
>
> M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
>
> comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
>
> New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
>
> EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
Hi!
Factoring that more I've got:
: REEXEC ( ..x xt -- ..y xt ) dup >R execute R> ;
,then thought that definition would deserve to be a primitive, then I posted in this thread "Should `execute' keep xt on stack?".
in this new version `map-array' is trivial:
: map-array ( .. xt a u -- .. ) cells bounds ?DO I swap REEXEC ( or the new `EXECUTE' that keep xt on stack ) 1 cells +LOOP drop ;
I think that would be an improvement.
Have a nice day,
humptydumpty
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-18 16:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <2012Oct18.184203@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #16426 |
humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> writes:
>Factoring that more I've got:
>: REEXEC ( ..x xt -- ..y xt ) dup >R execute R> ;
>,then thought that definition would deserve to be a primitive, then I posted in this thread "Should `execute' keep xt on stack?".
>
>in this new version `map-array' is trivial:
>
>: map-array ( .. xt a u -- .. ) cells bounds ?DO I swap REEXEC ( or the new `EXECUTE' that keep xt on stack ) 1 cells +LOOP drop ;
>
>I think that would be an improvement.
Yes, this REEXEC looks promising. The question is: Is it useful in
other contexts?
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
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| From | Ouatu Bogdan <ouatubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-18 18:41 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <slrnk80jr5.q0v.ouatubi@ou.my.domain> |
| In reply to | #16434 |
On 2012-10-18, Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> writes: >>Factoring that more I've got: >>: REEXEC ( ..x xt -- ..y xt ) dup >R execute R> ; >>,then thought that definition would deserve to be a primitive, then I posted in this thread "Should `execute' keep xt on stack?". >> >>in this new version `map-array' is trivial: >> >>: map-array ( .. xt a u -- .. ) cells bounds ?DO I swap REEXEC ( or the new `EXECUTE' that keep xt on stack ) 1 cells +LOOP drop ; >> >>I think that would be an improvement. > > Yes, this REEXEC looks promising. The question is: Is it useful in > other contexts? > > - anton I think it could be useful when we could abstract a repetitive task, be it a counted/uncounted loop or by other meanings, that generate/iterate through a domenium, bring `xt' on TOS by `over',`rot' or other stack manipulation, then do `reexec'. Have a nice day, humptydumpty
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| From | humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-18 12:20 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <576470c5-1320-444f-82eb-63785ccb5752@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #16444 |
On Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:41:26 PM UTC, humptydumpty wrote: > On 2012-10-18, Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > > > humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> writes: > > >>Factoring that more I've got: > > >>: REEXEC ( ..x xt -- ..y xt ) dup >R execute R> ; > > >>,then thought that definition would deserve to be a primitive, then I posted in this thread "Should `execute' keep xt on stack?". > > >> > > >>in this new version `map-array' is trivial: > > >> > > >>: map-array ( .. xt a u -- .. ) cells bounds ?DO I swap REEXEC ( or the new `EXECUTE' that keep xt on stack ) 1 cells +LOOP drop ; > > >> > > >>I think that would be an improvement. > > > > > > Yes, this REEXEC looks promising. The question is: Is it useful in > > > other contexts? > > > > > > - anton > > > > I think it could be useful when we could abstract a repetitive task, > > be it a counted/uncounted loop or by other meanings, that generate/iterate > > through a domenium, bring `xt' on TOS by `over',`rot' or other stack > > manipulation, then do `reexec'. > > > > Have a nice day, > > humptydumpty Oops, there should be ... bring `xt' on TOS by *`swap'*,`rot' or other stack manipulation...
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-16 21:10 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" |
| Message-ID | <7xehkx7n88.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #16344 |
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
> There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I
> listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper
> <http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>.
> Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often
> better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant,
> using locals doesn't.
The paper is interesting, though it doesn't mention the obvious
(unspeakable?) method, namely using PICK to random-access the data
stack.
Here's my version of the rectangle problem, using doubleword operations
but no PICK:
: draw ( x0 y0 x1 y1 -- )
2swap ." line from " swap . . ." to " swap . . cr ;
: xy-ll ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xll yll )
2over ;
: xy-ul ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xll yur )
2over 2over nip nip ;
: xy-ur ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xur yur )
2dup ;
: xy-lr ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xur yll )
2over 2over 2>r nip 2r> drop swap ;
: rect ( xll yll xur yur -- ) cr
xy-ul 2>r xy-ll 2r> draw
xy-ur 2>r xy-ul 2r> draw
xy-lr 2>r xy-ur 2r> draw
xy-ll 2>r xy-lr 2r> draw
2drop 2drop ;
For readability it saves more junk on the stack than necessary.
A version with PICK is almost as easy as the locals version. Of course
PICK is very distasteful, even more than locals.
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| From | humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 05:01 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" |
| Message-ID | <c13e1ef5-efd3-4c63-b318-a195e551adb8@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #16372 |
On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 4:10:16 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote:
> (Anton Ertl) writes:
>
> > There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I
>
> > listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper
>
> > <http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>.
>
> > Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often
>
> > better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant,
>
> > using locals doesn't.
>
>
>
> The paper is interesting, though it doesn't mention the obvious
>
> (unspeakable?) method, namely using PICK to random-access the data
>
> stack.
>
>
>
> Here's my version of the rectangle problem, using doubleword operations
>
> but no PICK:
>
>
>
> : draw ( x0 y0 x1 y1 -- )
>
> 2swap ." line from " swap . . ." to " swap . . cr ;
>
>
>
> : xy-ll ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xll yll )
>
> 2over ;
>
> : xy-ul ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xll yur )
>
> 2over 2over nip nip ;
>
> : xy-ur ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xur yur )
>
> 2dup ;
>
> : xy-lr ( xll yll xur yur -- xll yll xur yur xur yll )
>
> 2over 2over 2>r nip 2r> drop swap ;
>
>
>
> : rect ( xll yll xur yur -- ) cr
>
> xy-ul 2>r xy-ll 2r> draw
>
> xy-ur 2>r xy-ul 2r> draw
>
> xy-lr 2>r xy-ur 2r> draw
>
> xy-ll 2>r xy-lr 2r> draw
>
> 2drop 2drop ;
>
>
>
> For readability it saves more junk on the stack than necessary.
>
>
>
> A version with PICK is almost as easy as the locals version. Of course
>
> PICK is very distasteful, even more than locals.
Hi Paul!
This subject was many times debated here in c.l.f.
What come into my mind now is something:
: 4dup 2over 2over ;
: hline ( y2 y1 x -- ;use 'putpixel' inside a ?DO..LOOP ) ... ;
: vline ( y x2 x1 -- ;the same idea ) ... ;
: rectangle ( y2 y1 x2 x1 -- )
4dup drop hline
4dup nip hline
4dup rot drop vline
vline drop ;
Have a nice day,
humptydumpty
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| From | humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-16 23:55 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <c4f4bf0f-4533-42e5-ab8a-9192858e033f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #16344 |
On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:15:32 PM UTC, Anton Ertl wrote:
> rickman writes:
>
> >On 10/15/2012 12:31 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> >> The usefulness of local variables in practical Forth shows that there's
>
> >> occasionally too much live data to do everything on the stack. In
>
> >> interpreted Forths where the stack itself is also in memory, or in
>
> >> compiled Forths where stack and local accesses end up using registers,
>
> >> this works out ok. In stack hardware where locals and memory are 10x(?)
>
> >> slower than stack accesses, overall program performance probably
>
> >> suffers.
>
> >
>
> >Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that
>
> >there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It
>
> >has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I
>
> >shouldn't open the factoring can of worms.
>
>
>
> There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I
>
> listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper
>
> <http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>.
>
> Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often
>
> better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant,
>
> using locals doesn't.
>
>
>
> Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put
>
> up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that
>
> eliminates locals here as a challenge
>
> <2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
>
> <a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at>
>
> <2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up
>
> the challenge.
>
>
>
> - anton
>
> --
>
> M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
>
> comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
>
> New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
>
> EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
Hi!
Should `execute' keep xt on stack?
: execute ( ..x xt -- ..y xt )
dup >R execute R> ;
With this new `execute' map-array falls trivial:
: map-array ( .. xt[..x I--..y] a u -- .. )
cells bounds DO? I swap execute 1 cells +LOOP drop ;
, xt of stack efect ( ..x I -- ..y ), in this case I is an address.
It also works for 2D maps where block inside loop is `I J rot execute'.
Have a nice day,
humptydumpty
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| From | humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 00:06 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <db1ec970-0b24-49f3-9bbc-792119e14676@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #16375 |
On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:55:24 AM UTC, humptydumpty wrote: > On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:15:32 PM UTC, Anton Ertl wrote: > > > rickman writes: > > > > > > >On 10/15/2012 12:31 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > > > > > > >> The usefulness of local variables in practical Forth shows that there's > > > > > > >> occasionally too much live data to do everything on the stack. In > > > > > > >> interpreted Forths where the stack itself is also in memory, or in > > > > > > >> compiled Forths where stack and local accesses end up using registers, > > > > > > >> this works out ok. In stack hardware where locals and memory are 10x(?) > > > > > > >> slower than stack accesses, overall program performance probably > > > > > > >> suffers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that > > > > > > >there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It > > > > > > >has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I > > > > > > >shouldn't open the factoring can of worms. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I > > > > > > listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper > > > > > > <http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>. > > > > > > Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often > > > > > > better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant, > > > > > > using locals doesn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put > > > > > > up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that > > > > > > eliminates locals here as a challenge > > > > > > <2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at> > > > > > > <a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> > > > > > > <2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up > > > > > > the challenge. > > > > > > > > > > > > - anton > > > > > > -- > > > > > > M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html > > > > > > comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html > > > > > > New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html > > > > > > EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/ > > > > Hi! > > > > Should `execute' keep xt on stack? > > > > : execute ( ..x xt -- ..y xt ) > > dup >R execute R> ; > > > > With this new `execute' map-array falls trivial: > > > > : map-array ( .. xt[..x I--..y] a u -- .. ) > > cells bounds DO? I swap execute 1 cells +LOOP drop ; > > > > , xt of stack efect ( ..x I -- ..y ), in this case I is an address. > > > > It also works for 2D maps where block inside loop is `I J rot execute'. > > > > Have a nice day, > > humptydumpty Sorry for typo, should be `?DO' not `DO?'.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 10:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <507e87a4$0$3150$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #16344 |
In article <2012Oct16.134654@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: >rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >>On 10/15/2012 12:31 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: >>> The usefulness of local variables in practical Forth shows that there's >>> occasionally too much live data to do everything on the stack. In >>> interpreted Forths where the stack itself is also in memory, or in >>> compiled Forths where stack and local accesses end up using registers, >>> this works out ok. In stack hardware where locals and memory are 10x(?) >>> slower than stack accesses, overall program performance probably >>> suffers. >> >>Are local variables "useful" or just convenient? I don't agree that >>there is "too much live data" for the stack, at least very seldom. It >>has been put to me that this indicates poor factoring. But I guess I >>shouldn't open the factoring can of worms. > >There are a number of ways to deal with having lots of live data (I >listed a number of them in my EuroForth 2011 paper ><http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/euroforth/ef11/papers/ertl.pdf>. >Before we had locals, we used the other ways, but locals are often >better; e.g., using global variables makes the code non-reentrant, >using locals doesn't. > >Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put >up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that >eliminates locals here as a challenge ><2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at> ><a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at> ><2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up >the challenge. For me this challenge is not about live data, but an interface definition that is non-Forthy. I'd say if your format your data this way, you not only have problems realizing the word that prints, but also where the word is used. If it used in a way like 7 5 3 .print , it might as well be `` <% 7%s %| 3 %s %> 7 OVER - blank TYPE '' in <# # #> style. So a typical Forth evasion: we need a <# equivalent for floating point. > >- anton >-- >M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html Groetjes Albert
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 14:21 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <2012Oct17.162115@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #16380 |
albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>In article <2012Oct16.134654@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>,
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>Concerning factoring, it helps in some cases, but not always. I put
>>up some cases where I could not come up with a factoring that
>>eliminates locals here as a challenge
>><2003Jan25.154659@a0.complang.tuwien.ac.at>
>><a3j4aa$a23$1@news.tuwien.ac.at>
>><2009Sep10.122914@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, but nobody has taken up
>>the challenge.
>
>For me this challenge is not about live data, but an interface definition
>that is non-Forthy. I'd say if your format your data this way, you not
>only have problems realizing the word that prints, but also where the
>word is used. If it used in a way like 7 5 3 .print , it might
>as well be `` <% 7%s %| 3 %s %> 7 OVER - blank TYPE '' in <# # #> style.
>
>So a typical Forth evasion: we need a <# equivalent for floating point.
Well, when I started on what eventually became F.RDP, I thought in
this direction at first, but did not see a good way to do it, so I
eventually settled on the F.RDP interface. But if you can come up
with a good interface that can be implemented with reasonable effort,
I would be glad to see it.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 17:54 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <4659840.fhxh4DBstZ@sunwukong.fritz.box> |
| In reply to | #16389 |
Anton Ertl wrote: > Well, when I started on what eventually became F.RDP, I thought in > this direction at first, but did not see a good way to do it, so I > eventually settled on the F.RDP interface. But if you can come up > with a good interface that can be implemented with reasonable effort, > I would be glad to see it. I don't like the factoring of f.rdp. The steps of working with floating point numbers to get a printable representation IMHO should be: Obtain the exponent in the current base (or base 10 if you restrict output to base 10), and normalize the rest of the floating point number (in [0.1,1[). Do exponent adjustments - e.g. we want to print with exponent=0 for exponent ranges [-2,5], and with an exponent factor of 3 for everything else. Split the normalized floating point number into integer and fractional part (both results are still FP numbers, as the integer part might not fit into a cell or double cell). Extract integer part digits and fractional digits into a buffer. Integer digits are added to the left, fractional digits to the right. Allow to limit the total number of digits in that buffer. Extract the sign. Append the exponent in a suitable form (e.g. as SI unit prefix or as e<sign><number>). Maybe you might want to know beforehand how many characters that will take to make other adjustments. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-10-17 15:58 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "Too much data" (was: mr paysan where is your chip? ...) |
| Message-ID | <2012Oct17.175823@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
| In reply to | #16392 |
Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>Anton Ertl wrote:
>> Well, when I started on what eventually became F.RDP, I thought in
>> this direction at first, but did not see a good way to do it, so I
>> eventually settled on the F.RDP interface. But if you can come up
>> with a good interface that can be implemented with reasonable effort,
>> I would be glad to see it.
>
>I don't like the factoring of f.rdp. The steps of working with floating
>point numbers to get a printable representation IMHO should be:
>
>Obtain the exponent in the current base (or base 10 if you restrict
>output to base 10), and normalize the rest of the floating point number
>(in [0.1,1[).
Unfortunately the exponent and the normalization depend on the number
of digits to be shown. E.g., if you want to show 99.99 with two or
more fractional digits, the exponent is 2 and the normalized number is
0.9999, whereas for 0 or 1 fractional digits, the exponent is 3 and
the normalized number is 0.1. And if you want to drop into scientific
or engineering representation in some circumstances while keeping the
total width the same, there are additional cases to consider.
Anyway, I am certainly interested in seeing your better-factored FP
output words.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2012: http://www.euroforth.org/ef12/
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