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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #18643 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Oliver Bach <decfreak@googlemail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-01-10 17:28 -0800 |
| Last post | 2013-02-06 19:39 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 101 — 26 participants |
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Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Oliver Bach <decfreak@googlemail.com> - 2013-01-10 17:28 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-10 19:52 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-11 03:35 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-14 15:13 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-14 21:16 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-15 14:47 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-18 23:24 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 04:08 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Spam@ControlQ.com - 2013-01-11 13:09 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-01-12 11:59 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-13 07:41 +1300
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Chris <xrissmith@me.com> - 2013-01-12 21:05 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-13 22:26 +1300
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 18:41 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-17 23:42 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-19 18:21 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-20 14:26 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-20 10:58 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-20 15:46 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 01:51 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 04:10 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 04:45 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 04:48 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-21 22:01 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 13:42 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-22 02:18 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 01:06 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-02-01 04:54 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 19:34 -1000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-02 16:32 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-02 18:17 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-02 17:51 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-21 14:55 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-22 03:18 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 01:10 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-22 03:31 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 03:41 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-22 14:36 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-22 17:23 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 09:38 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 12:52 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 04:31 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 04:35 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 18:22 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 09:40 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 21:02 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 13:30 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 23:07 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 15:16 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 13:07 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-25 08:33 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 16:46 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-25 23:31 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 18:09 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-27 10:15 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 14:41 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-31 21:03 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-01-31 21:44 +0200
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 23:16 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 12:47 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-02-01 08:23 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 04:48 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-22 17:30 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 04:32 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-22 14:35 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-22 17:29 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 02:21 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 04:43 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 03:28 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 09:19 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-23 09:24 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 12:01 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-02-04 03:09 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 09:59 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-26 03:05 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-26 04:38 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-26 07:19 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-26 13:13 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 17:00 -0500
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis None <vandys@vsta.org> - 2013-01-26 22:04 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2013-01-22 18:20 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 23:25 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 03:02 -0600
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-24 18:28 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-25 16:57 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-25 08:41 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-01-25 20:04 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-26 09:25 +1300
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-26 13:16 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-30 18:40 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-31 15:15 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-31 15:55 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-24 00:57 +0200
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 09:01 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-31 19:41 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-01 16:08 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-02 02:16 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-02 16:38 +0100
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-04 14:50 +0000
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-06 00:32 -0800
Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-06 19:39 +0100
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| From | Oliver Bach <decfreak@googlemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-10 17:28 -0800 |
| Subject | Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis |
| Message-ID | <98c69d48-ef2f-46da-92c3-f5c37676c279@googlegroups.com> |
Hello and Happy New Year 2013! Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code and Threaded Interpretive Languages. Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, which I could include in my thesis? Thank you in advance for your help! Many greetings Oliver Bach
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-10 19:52 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <de746df3-7c8b-4050-b613-4f2da139b1be@oi3g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18643 |
On Jan 10, 6:28 pm, Oliver Bach <decfr...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Hello and Happy New Year 2013! > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, > which I could include in my thesis? > > Thank you in advance for your help! > > Many greetings > Oliver Bach Your use of the word TIL indicates that you have read Loeliger's book --- I read that way back in 1984 when I was a senior in high-school. What other books have you read? Have you written any programs yourself? I've worked as a Forth programmer, and my software ended up in a motion-control board that is still being sold. That code is owned by my former employer, not by me, so it doesn't really count as one of your examples. Also, software isn't really worth anything --- only hardware is valued in money --- software is considered to be R&D, and it has no value according to accounting theory. I'm not only a Forth programmer, but I can also predict the future! I predict that Elizabeth Rather is going to tell you about the Saudi Arabia airport project that Forth Inc. did on the PDP-11 (that was when Chuck Moore was still working there). This is bragged up extensively on the Forth Inc. website, so you can go research your "bachelor thesis" there. Quote entire passages from the Forth Inc. website describing the Saudi project --- your professors will be impressed! BTW: What the heck is a bachelor thesis? I've heard of a Master's Thesis, but I've never heard of any such thing required to get a four- year degree. Don't they just look at your grade, and if it is a D or above, you get the sheepskin?
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| From | "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-11 03:35 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <kcoirl$l31$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #18643 |
"Oliver Bach" <decfreak@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:98c69d48-ef2f-46da-92c3-f5c37676c279@googlegroups.com... > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > Therefor[e] Well, as a college or university student working on a degree, someone who is about to become a professional in industry, you should be made aware that 'therefor' and 'therefore' are two different words with different meanings. 'therefore' means what follows or, sometimes, in conclusion. That's the word you wanted. 'therefor' means in exchange. That's the word you used. Basically, you'll never use 'therefor' without the 'e' ... :-) > I am still looking for some current application examples > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth > in particular. Sorry, I can offer no help with that. It's likely a few here will point out that modern, commercial Forth's are compiled. They don't use the historic types of TIL that were once used by Forth anymore: DTC or ITC. Typically, compiled Forth is referred to as STC. If there is any difference between compiled code and STC, it's not usually noted. TTC was used by BASIC and other interpreted languages. As for Hugh mentioning Loeliger's book any time someone mentions TIL, I never read it. IIRC, I learned the terms for the four types of TIL from Byte magazine. They had one really popular issue on Forth in the early 1980's. They might've also had some other articles. You can also find the terms in Bradford Rodriguez's "Moving Forth" series of Forth implementation articles (available online). If you were wanting some old TIL Forth's, there are a couple of well known Forth archives on the Internet. (FYI, AIUI, the abbreviations above mean: TIL - Threaded Interpreted Language, DTC - Direct Threaded Code, ITC - Indirect Threaded Code, TTC - Token Threaded Code, STC - Subroutine Threaded Code) Rod Pemberton
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-14 15:13 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <16007067-4b26-4cb6-a35a-d38afaaf9e82@pu9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18651 |
On Jan 11, 1:35 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notemailnotz.cnm> wrote: > "Oliver Bach" <decfr...@googlemail.com> wrote in message > > Therefor[e] > > Well, as a college or university student working on a degree, > someone who is about to become a professional in industry, you > should be made aware that 'therefor' and 'therefore' are two > different words with different meanings. 'therefore' means what > follows or, sometimes, in conclusion. That's the word you wanted. > 'therefor' means in exchange. That's the word you used. > Basically, you'll never use 'therefor' without the 'e' ... :-) Well Rod, this may be the first time that I've learned something from you! I had no idea that "therefor" was a word --- I thought it was just a misspelling of "therefore." > > I am still looking for some current application examples > > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth > > in particular. Back in the 1980s, Forth was necessarily a TIL, and compiling to machine-code or any other kind of threading scheme was non-standard. In those days, the words "TIL" and "Forth" were pretty much synonymous, as Forth was the only language that used a threading scheme (although Apple Pascal used token-threading, but that wasn't referred to as a TIL but instead was referred to as "byte-code"). The fact that the OP was using the word "TIL" tells me that he was reading old 1980s literature, such as the Byte magazine article or Loeliger's book, and he thinks that Forth is necessarily a TIL. The words "TIL" and "byte-code" are obsolete nowadays --- the word VM (virtual machine) is used instead. One of the few things that ANS-Forth (1994) got right, was to abstract out the threading scheme. Forth is not necessarily a TIL, although it might be --- the user isn't supposed to know what is going on under the hood --- the users' programs are supposed to compile and run correctly on any ANS-compliant Forth system, which may use any threading-scheme that the compiler-writer felt like implementing. For example, a novice could start out with GForth and then upgrade to VFX later on, and his programs will largely port over unchanged (at least, so long as he restricted himself to ANS-Forth compliant code) --- the OP can check out my novice package (http://www.forth.org/novice.html) which is entirely ANS-Forth and will compile and run under any ANS- Forth system (if it doesn't, then the bug is in the Forth system, not in the novice package, as I don't have any bugs).
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| From | "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-14 21:16 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <kd2e52$ead$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #18792 |
"Hugh Aguilar" <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:16007067-4b26-4cb6-a35a-d38afaaf9e82@pu9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com... > On Jan 11, 1:35 am, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notemailnotz.cnm> > wrote: > > "Oliver Bach" <decfr...@googlemail.com> wrote in message > > > Therefor[e] > > > Well, as a college or university student working on a degree, > > someone who is about to become a professional in industry, you > > should be made aware that 'therefor' and 'therefore' are two > > different words with different meanings. 'therefore' means > > what follows or, sometimes, in conclusion. That's the word > > you wanted. 'therefor' means in exchange. That's the word you > > used. Basically, you'll never use 'therefor' without the 'e' > > ... :-) > > Well Rod, this may be the first time that I've learned something > from you! I had no idea that "therefor" was a word --- I thought > it was just a misspelling of "therefore." > Well, I'm almost 100% sure that my response wasn't something he actually _wanted_ to read in reply to his question. It likely was a simple spelling mistake. However, if it wasn't a spelling mistake, then he was about to litter his thesis with a half-dozen or more 'therefors'. So, it's possible that I saved him an entire letter grade. At least, I'm hoping it helped him in that way. That's assuming his teacher - or the teacher's assistant doing the grading - is experienced enough to catch such an error in the first place. If it's not checked by the English department, I think many such mistakes would likely be missed. An engineering department would probably need a comprehensive list of English mistakes to check for, otherwise, they'll miss many of them. Have you ever seen a textbook written by a University professor of engineering without a review by their English department or without a rewrite by the technical writers at a major publisher? I've experienced a couple. They're horrendous ... to the point of being unreadable and uncomprehensible by other experts in the field. Think non-verbal insanity attempting to express itself using words and utterly failing. Think "Alice in Wonderland" meets LSD, then meets engineering. A "crackhead" would do better ... No, I'm not joking. And, I said "would" not "could". Rod Pemberton
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-15 14:47 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <a9016a8e-7eb2-453b-8ba3-8f78b4695f0f@i7g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18800 |
On Jan 14, 7:16 pm, "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_h...@notemailnotz.cnm> wrote: > "Hugh Aguilar" <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > Well Rod, this may be the first time that I've learned something > > from you! I had no idea that "therefor" was a word --- I thought > > it was just a misspelling of "therefore." > > Well, I'm almost 100% sure that my response wasn't something he > actually _wanted_ to read in reply to his question. It likely was > a simple spelling mistake. However, if it wasn't a spelling > mistake, then he was about to litter his thesis with a half-dozen > or more 'therefors'. So, it's possible that I saved him an entire > letter grade. At least, I'm hoping it helped him in that way. > That's assuming his teacher - or the teacher's assistant doing the > grading - is experienced enough to catch such an error in the > first place. If it's not checked by the English department, I > think many such mistakes would likely be missed. An engineering > department would probably need a comprehensive list of English > mistakes to check for, otherwise, they'll miss many of them. Have > you ever seen a textbook written by a University professor of > engineering without a review by their English department or > without a rewrite by the technical writers at a major publisher? > I've experienced a couple. They're horrendous ... to the point of > being unreadable and uncomprehensible by other experts in the > field. Think non-verbal insanity attempting to express itself > using words and utterly failing. Think "Alice in Wonderland" > meets LSD, then meets engineering. A "crackhead" would do > better ... No, I'm not joking. And, I said "would" not "could". Here in Phoenix there are billboards alongside the road advertising a college for business majors, where they can get their MBA. The billboard encourages the brave MBA candidate to "take his education farther." LOL For any MBAs who are reading this, I'll explain --- the word "farther" is for specific distances, and "further" is for indeterminate distances. This is an easy rule to remember, as cats have fur, and the further away that they are, the better off you are.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-18 23:24 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <kdf4bg$k3r$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #18832 |
On 1/15/2013 5:47 PM, Hugh Aguilar wrote: > > For any MBAs who are reading this, I'll explain --- the word "farther" > is for specific distances, and "further" is for indeterminate > distances. This is an easy rule to remember, as cats have fur, and the > further away that they are, the better off you are. By George, I think I will never forget this! It's right up there with the slide rule design for future civilizations after the fall of technology! You really can't make this stuff up! BTW, Webster doesn't agree with you. His book says they have the same meanings with farther being more often used when referring to distance and further being more often used in the general sense, "He throws the ball farther than anyone in school" vs. "You need to research this further". BTW, while I read this, my cats all left the room. Do you think it something I read? Rick
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| From | Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-11 04:08 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <6d9eaf87-9d36-4357-b639-795468d94562@j4g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18643 |
On Jan 11, 1:28 am, Oliver Bach <decfr...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Hello and Happy New Year 2013! > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, > which I could include in my thesis? > > Thank you in advance for your help! > > Many greetings > Oliver Bach I'd suggest you contact Forth, Inc in the USA directly. They have worked with many many clients over the years, and may still be maintaing threaded versions of applications for their clients. I think it's true that most folk will have moved on to native compiled versions these days, well, in the Forth world anyway, though threaded implementations do have some nice characteristics that can render them more flexible than their compiled counterparts, with the resultant performance penalty, of course. Though speed isn't always the end goal.
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| From | Spam@ControlQ.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-11 13:09 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301111306310.89012@yoko.controlq.com> |
| In reply to | #18643 |
On Thu, 10 Jan 2013, Oliver Bach wrote: > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:28:41 -0800 (PST) > From: Oliver Bach <decfreak@googlemail.com> > Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth > Subject: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis > > Hello and Happy New Year 2013! > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, > which I could include in my thesis? > > Thank you in advance for your help! > > Many greetings > Oliver Bach > The Canon CAT was a dedicated word processor with an unconventional keyboard and a threaded interpretive language, which I believe was actually called TIL. Used a <JUMP> key instead of an <enter> and was, iirc, designed by Jeff Raskin. Never commercially successful, it was however an innovative design based upon an MC68K processor of some kind. Hope this helps ... Cheers, Rob.
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| From | Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-12 11:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <rt4all-0F0798.11592912012013@[10.12.75.213]> |
| In reply to | #18675 |
In article <alpine.BSF.2.00.1301111306310.89012@yoko.controlq.com>, Spam@ControlQ.com wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jan 2013, Oliver Bach wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:28:41 -0800 (PST) > > From: Oliver Bach <decfreak@googlemail.com> > > Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth > > Subject: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis > > > > Hello and Happy New Year 2013! > > > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > > > Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, > > which I could include in my thesis? > > > > Thank you in advance for your help! > > > > Many greetings > > Oliver Bach > > > > The Canon CAT was a dedicated word processor with an unconventional > keyboard and a threaded interpretive language, which I believe was > actually called TIL. Used a <JUMP> key instead of an <enter> and was, > iirc, designed by Jeff Raskin. Never commercially successful, it was > however an innovative design based upon an MC68K processor of some kind. > > Hope this helps ... > > Cheers, > Rob. Forth and the key was called LEAP http://canoncat.org -r
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-13 07:41 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <mMWdnbTZ-YHxM2zNnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #18643 |
On 1/11/13 2:28 PM, Oliver Bach wrote: > Hello and Happy New Year 2013! > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, > which I could include in my thesis? > > Thank you in advance for your help! > > Many greetings > Oliver Bach > Since the passage on ANS Forth 1994, Forth has not been restricted to the kind of address interpreter that was characteristic of earlier Forths. Although there are still "indirect threaded" implementations, the commercial vendors FORTH, Inc. and MPE Ltd., as well as the implementors of the more popular free versions, have brought out implementations that generate optimized machine code. Most business and industial applications are now based on these. The major advantages of the TIL design included size (a big issue on 16-bit architectures common in the 70's and still around in the 80's) as well as simplicity of implementation. I am traveling now, and don't have access to all my bookmarks... could someone else here post a link to the article about the Saudi Airport project? Last I heard (a few months ago) that was still using the Forth system installed there in the 80's. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | Chris <xrissmith@me.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-12 21:05 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <9063fd7d-73cc-4e37-b6a9-05017f7b2733@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18704 |
On Sunday, 13 January 2013 07:41:47 UTC+13, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: > On 1/11/13 2:28 PM, Oliver Bach wrote: > > > Hello and Happy New Year 2013! > > > > > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > > > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > > > > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > > > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > > > > > Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, > > > which I could include in my thesis? > > > > > > Thank you in advance for your help! > > > > > > Many greetings > > > Oliver Bach > > > > > > > Since the passage on ANS Forth 1994, Forth has not been restricted to > > the kind of address interpreter that was characteristic of earlier > > Forths. Although there are still "indirect threaded" implementations, > > the commercial vendors FORTH, Inc. and MPE Ltd., as well as the > > implementors of the more popular free versions, have brought out > > implementations that generate optimized machine code. Most business and > > industial applications are now based on these. > > > > The major advantages of the TIL design included size (a big issue on > > 16-bit architectures common in the 70's and still around in the 80's) as > > well as simplicity of implementation. > > > > I am traveling now, and don't have access to all my bookmarks... could > > someone else here post a link to the article about the Saudi Airport > > project? Last I heard (a few months ago) that was still using the Forth > > system installed there in the 80's. > > > > Cheers, > > Elizabeth > > > > -- > > ================================================== > > Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH > > FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 > > 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 > > Los Angeles, CA 90045 > > http://www.forth.com > > > > "Forth-based products and Services for real-time > > applications since 1973." > > ================================================== Here is an old article, I don't know if this is the one you are meaning? It is the most in-depth article, others are more up to date but do not say much. Fifteen Programmers, 400 Computers, 36,000 sensors, and FORTH by Elizabeth D. Rather FORTH, Inc. ABSTRACT A large, recently completed Mid-East Airport featured in its design a powerful, integrated computer system incorporating security and access control, fire and life safety monitoring, environmental monitoring and control, power distribution, fuel farm monitoring, water distribution, control of runway lights, and numerous related applications. The system is being supplied by AVCO Corp., and is programmed in Forth by a team of programmers from FORTH, Inc. and AVCO. This paper discusses some technical and management highlights from this experience. Proceedings of the 1985 Rochester Forth Conference http://soton.mpeforth.com/flag/jfar/vol3/no2/article4.pdf
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| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-13 22:26 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <xvSdnWa_4sIg4G_NnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #18709 |
On 1/13/13 6:05 PM, Chris wrote: > On Sunday, 13 January 2013 07:41:47 UTC+13, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote: ... >> >> I am traveling now, and don't have access to all my bookmarks... could >> >> someone else here post a link to the article about the Saudi Airport >> >> project? Last I heard (a few months ago) that was still using the Forth >> >> system installed there in the 80's. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Elizabeth ... > > Here is an old article, I don't know if this is the one you are meaning? > It is the most in-depth article, others are more up to date but do not say much. > > Fifteen Programmers, 400 Computers, 36,000 sensors, and FORTH > by Elizabeth D. Rather FORTH, Inc. > > ABSTRACT > A large, recently completed Mid-East Airport featured in its design a powerful, integrated computer system incorporating security and access control, fire and life safety monitoring, environmental monitoring and control, power distribution, fuel farm monitoring, water distribution, control of runway lights, and numerous related applications. The system is being supplied by AVCO Corp., and is programmed in Forth by a team of programmers from FORTH, Inc. and AVCO. This paper discusses some technical and management highlights from this experience. > > Proceedings of the 1985 Rochester Forth Conference > http://soton.mpeforth.com/flag/jfar/vol3/no2/article4.pdf > That's the one, Chris, Thank you! -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
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| From | gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-13 18:41 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <a9a8a395-7fd4-42fa-93d6-582eb7faecd9@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18643 |
On Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:28:41 PM UTC-8, Oliver Bach wrote: > Hello and Happy New Year 2013! > > > > Currently I'm writing my bachelor thesis about threaded code > > and Threaded Interpretive Languages. > > > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > > > Perhaps you may have one or more examples for me, > > which I could include in my thesis? > > > > Thank you in advance for your help! > > > > Many greetings > > Oliver Bach check out the palm handheld forth stuff by whats his name
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-17 23:42 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <7xhamfvsxd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #18643 |
Oliver Bach <decfreak@googlemail.com> writes: > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. I recently noticed that the Erlang BEAM VM is implemented as a TIL: http://prog21.dadgum.com/127.html
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-19 18:21 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <3526d3b3-764c-4839-981f-f97710bf9f9a@pu9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18882 |
On Jan 18, 12:42 am, Paul Rubin <no.em...@nospam.invalid> wrote: > Oliver Bach <decfr...@googlemail.com> writes: > > Therefor I am still looking for some current application examples > > from business and industry for the use of TILs and Forth in particular. > > I recently noticed that the Erlang BEAM VM is implemented as a TIL: > > http://prog21.dadgum.com/127.html Aren't the terms VM and TIL synonymous? Every VM is a TIL.
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| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-20 14:26 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1760170.UIzXAlGtkR@sunwukong.fritz.box> |
| In reply to | #18915 |
Hugh Aguilar wrote: > Aren't the terms VM and TIL synonymous? Every VM is a TIL. A threaded interpretative language means you have threaded code, i.e. a next is "goto *(ip)++" or something like that (indirect threaded means another indirection). A VM can be byte-code, threaded code, or whatever, and may be implemented with a just in time compiler instead of a threaded code interpreter. BTW: K&R originally implemented C as threaded code (stack based instructions), native code came later. Those += and ++ things in C came into existence, because adding them as primitives made the C compiler both smaller and faster. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" http://bernd-paysan.de/
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| From | Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-20 10:58 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <arydnRFqUKnMv2HNnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #18929 |
Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote: > Hugh Aguilar wrote: >> Aren't the terms VM and TIL synonymous? Every VM is a TIL. > > A threaded interpretative language means you have threaded code, i.e. a > next is "goto *(ip)++" or something like that (indirect threaded means > another indirection). A VM can be byte-code, threaded code, or > whatever, and may be implemented with a just in time compiler instead of > a threaded code interpreter. > > BTW: K&R originally implemented C as threaded code (stack based > instructions), native code came later. That was B, I think, not C. C came later, and "In 1971 I began to extend the B language by adding a character type and also rewrote its compiler to generate PDP-11 machine instructions instead of threaded code. Thus the transition from B to C was contemporaneous with the creation of a compiler capable of producing programs fast and small enough to compete with assembly language." Andrew. The Development of the C Language, http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/chist.html
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| From | Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-20 15:46 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ac332281-5f87-463a-8bcd-de34e1cb5f90@t6g2000pba.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18929 |
On Jan 20, 6:26 am, Bernd Paysan <bernd.pay...@gmx.de> wrote: > Hugh Aguilar wrote: > > Aren't the terms VM and TIL synonymous? Every VM is a TIL. > > A threaded interpretative language means you have threaded code, i.e. a > next is "goto *(ip)++" or something like that (indirect threaded means > another indirection). A VM can be byte-code, threaded code, or > whatever, and may be implemented with a just in time compiler instead of > a threaded code interpreter. Over on the Racket mailing list, I asked what the point of a VM and just-in-time compiling was, and why not just compile into machine-code (do the hard work at compile-time rather than run-time). I was told (by Stephen Bloch, the guru over there), that the use of a VM allows an executable to run on various processors without being recompiled --- so long as there is a VM for that processor. To do this however, the xt values can't be absolute addresses (as done in Forth's DTC and ITC). The xt values have to be relative offsets (as done in Forth's C- based token threading, or Pascal's byte-code).
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| From | Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-01-21 01:51 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <e5e8de00-d14b-4d1f-91d7-fc3abfb74bc2@bx10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #18947 |
On Jan 20, 11:46 pm, Hugh Aguilar <hughaguila...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jan 20, 6:26 am, Bernd Paysan <bernd.pay...@gmx.de> wrote: > > > Hugh Aguilar wrote: > > > Aren't the terms VM and TIL synonymous? Every VM is a TIL. > > > A threaded interpretative language means you have threaded code, i.e. a > > next is "goto *(ip)++" or something like that (indirect threaded means > > another indirection). A VM can be byte-code, threaded code, or > > whatever, and may be implemented with a just in time compiler instead of > > a threaded code interpreter. > > Over on the Racket mailing list, I asked what the point of a VM and > just-in-time compiling was, and why not just compile into machine-code > (do the hard work at compile-time rather than run-time). I was told > (by Stephen Bloch, the guru over there), that the use of a VM allows > an executable to run on various processors without being recompiled > --- so long as there is a VM for that processor. To do this however, > the xt values can't be absolute addresses (as done in Forth's DTC and > ITC). The xt values have to be relative offsets (as done in Forth's C- > based token threading, or Pascal's byte-code). Who told you that last part? It's nonsense. DTC and ITC can be relative offset based; Win32Forth v4 is exactly that.
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