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Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b]

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  Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 19:44 +0200
    Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] marcel hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> - 2026-07-03 15:24 +0200
      Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 18:33 +1000
      Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 19:08 +0200
      Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-07-09 18:18 +0200
        Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-07-10 14:43 +0200
    Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] albert@SPENARNC.XS4ALL.NL - 2026-07-11 17:09 +0200
      Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-07-11 18:21 +0200
        Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:02 +1000
          Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:15 +0200
      Re: Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b] Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-07-11 18:49 +0200

#135045 — Back & Forth - It still sounds MID.. [7b]

Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg

Hans Bezemer

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#135223

On 5/1/2026 7:44 PM, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg
> 
> Hans Bezemer

What about chords and multiple players?

https://iforth.nl/canonc.mid

-marcel

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#135224

On 3/07/2026 11:24 pm, marcel hendrix wrote:
> On 5/1/2026 7:44 PM, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>> Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg
>>
>> Hans Bezemer
> 
> What about chords and multiple players?
> 
> https://iforth.nl/canonc.mid

Whatever that is, it reminded me of ...

https://youtu.be/2r0CCRbHh70

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#135227

On 03-07-2026 15:24, marcel hendrix wrote:
> On 5/1/2026 7:44 PM, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>> Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg
>>
>> Hans Bezemer
> 
> What about chords and multiple players?
> 
> https://iforth.nl/canonc.mid
> 
> -marcel


Well, I think I set out my initial design objectives pretty well. And 
yeah -- I think I have a clue on how to do chords.

But the motto of my project has always been "this is supposed to be 
fun". And at this moment I'm not too motivated to put the effort in.

If others wanna do that, be my guest. If someone begged me to do that, 
maybe.

If I come along something that required chords, I think I might pull the 
libs out and enhance them accordingly.

But right now, I'm fine. It was fun! :-)

Hans Bezemer

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#135229

On 03-07-2026 15:24, marcel hendrix wrote:
> On 5/1/2026 7:44 PM, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>> Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg
>>
>> Hans Bezemer
> 
> What about chords and multiple players?
> 
> https://iforth.nl/canonc.mid
> 
> -marcel
What about this?

: m.Chord                              ( p1 p2 p3 px x duration delay --)
   >MID rot swap                        \ setup (duration n delay)
   [: over if .delay 90 emit rot mid&C dup emit m.Velocity emit >r 1- 0 
recurse
      swap dup .delay 80 emit r> emit m.Velocity emit >zero ;then drop ;]
   execute drop drop ;                  \ execute the chord

Hans Bezemer

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#135231

On 09-07-2026 18:18, Hans Bezemer wrote:
$ svn commit -m "Added chords to midi-w.4th"
Sending        4th.src/lib/midi-w.4th
Transmitting file data .done
Committing transaction...
Committed revision 1780.

I guessed you bagged too much, I couldn't resist it no more. :-)

Hans Bezemer

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#135232

Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg
>
> Hans Bezemer
I hate that you don't mention what it is all about.
It is about midi. It invites me to type ExDbYo(or 0) in the newsreader
cause the newsreader don't support cut and place. So I followed
up, my editor does it better.
We are at it, This is the rosetta challenge to play a scale.
A regular speaker required! MAKE-ACCESSABLE is not needed for MSDOS.
In linux you want XOS generic OS access, e.g. in ciforth.

---------------------------------------
"$-PREFIX" WANTED  "-scripting-" WANTED
: MAKE-ACCESSABLE   ( n-) 1 1 $65 XOS
   DUP IF ." You cannot access i/o ports, become root" CR THROW THEN ;
   : MAKE-SPEAKER-ACCESSABLE ( - )
   $42 MAKE-ACCESSABLE   $43 MAKE-ACCESSABLE   $61 MAKE-ACCESSABLE ;
   : SET-FREQUENCY  ( n - )  $B6 $43 PC!   DUP $42 PC!   8 RSHIFT $42 PC! ;
   : SPEAKER-ON  ( - )  $61 PC@    3  OR $61 PC! ;
   : SILENT-SPEAKER  ( -) $61 PC@  $FC AND $61 PC! ;
   : secunde 17843 18904 */ ;
   CREATE _notes   35613 ( C2) 12 0 DO DUP , secunde LOOP DROP
   : >timing    ( n - n) 24 - 12 /MOD SWAP   CELLS _notes + @   SWAP RSHIFT ;
   : NOTE-ON  ( n-)  >timing SET-FREQUENCY SPEAKER-ON ;
   : NOTE-OFF ( n-)  DROP SILENT-SPEAKER ;
   : PLAY-NOTE ( n n -)  OVER NOTE-ON MS NOTE-OFF ;
   : .. ( n - ) 1000 PLAY-NOTE ;
   \ Play a scale starting at the keyhole c.
   : PLAY-SCALE
   \ c'  d'    e'    f'    g'    a'    b'    c''
   60 .. 62 .. 64 .. 65 .. 67 .. 69 .. 71 .. 72 ..
   3000 MS ;
   MAKE-SPEAKER-ACCESSABLE PLAY-SCALE
---------------------------------------

The same scale played on mswindows. (Assuming WINMM.DLL is present
in SYSTEM32. a multimedia library.)
openmidi sendmidi closemidi are wrappers around dll calls.
They are slightly more than wrappers, because if you
do
    wina -c midi.frt
a midi.exe is generated that you can transport accross
windows systems (i.e. no Forth system needs to be present).

---------------------------------------
\ $Id: midi.frt,v 1.7 2015/04/15 02:04:17 albert Exp albert $
\ Copyright (2012): Albert van der Horst {by GNU Public License}
\ Uses MIDI facility to play a simple melody.
\ vrij naar Jones jonesforth

WANT sendmidi    ( and openmidi closemid )
WANT CASE-INSENSITIVE     CASE-INSENSITIVE
1 CONSTANT 'Grand_Piano'

VARIABLE instrument

: midi-errors
"
      2001 : Failed to open MIDI output device
      2002 : Failed to close MIDI output device
      2003 : Failed to send to MIDI output device
" TYPE ;

: -i   SHIFT-ARGS 1 ARG[] EVALUATE instrument ! SHIFT-ARGS ;

: -h midi-errors
"
-h this help
-i <instr> : install instrument to play on
" ETYPE
BYE ;

HEX
\ Send a midi start message for NOTE
: StartNote 8 LSHIFT 7F0090 OR sendmidi ;

\ Send a midi stop message for NOTE
: StopNote 8 LSHIFT 80 OR sendmidi ;

\ Send a midi select message for VOICE
: SetInstrument 8 LSHIFT 7F00C0 OR sendmidi ;
DECIMAL

\ Play a NOTE for TIME milliseconds.
: PlayNote OVER StartNote MS StopNote ;


: handle-args  ARGC 1 > IF 1 ARG[] EVALUATE THEN ;

: play
  instrument @ SetInstrument
  70 500 PlayNote
  72 500 PlayNote
  68 500 PlayNote
  56 500 PlayNote
  63 1000 PlayNote
  1000 MS
;

: doit   openmidi handle-args play closemidi ;
---------------------------------------

A midiplayer for actual midi files is easy given WINMM.DLL,
but the margin is too small to contain it.

Groetjes Albert

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#135233

On 11-07-2026 17:09, albert@SPENARNC.XS4ALL.NL wrote:
> Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg
>>
>> Hans Bezemer
> I hate that you don't mention what it is all about.
> It is about midi. It invites me to type ExDbYo(or 0) in the newsreader
> cause the newsreader don't support cut and place. So I followed
> up, my editor does it better.
> We are at it, This is the rosetta challenge to play a scale.
> A regular speaker required! MAKE-ACCESSABLE is not needed for MSDOS.
> In linux you want XOS generic OS access, e.g. in ciforth.
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> "$-PREFIX" WANTED  "-scripting-" WANTED
> : MAKE-ACCESSABLE   ( n-) 1 1 $65 XOS
>     DUP IF ." You cannot access i/o ports, become root" CR THROW THEN ;
>     : MAKE-SPEAKER-ACCESSABLE ( - )
>     $42 MAKE-ACCESSABLE   $43 MAKE-ACCESSABLE   $61 MAKE-ACCESSABLE ;
>     : SET-FREQUENCY  ( n - )  $B6 $43 PC!   DUP $42 PC!   8 RSHIFT $42 PC! ;
>     : SPEAKER-ON  ( - )  $61 PC@    3  OR $61 PC! ;
>     : SILENT-SPEAKER  ( -) $61 PC@  $FC AND $61 PC! ;
>     : secunde 17843 18904 */ ;
>     CREATE _notes   35613 ( C2) 12 0 DO DUP , secunde LOOP DROP
>     : >timing    ( n - n) 24 - 12 /MOD SWAP   CELLS _notes + @   SWAP RSHIFT ;
>     : NOTE-ON  ( n-)  >timing SET-FREQUENCY SPEAKER-ON ;
>     : NOTE-OFF ( n-)  DROP SILENT-SPEAKER ;
>     : PLAY-NOTE ( n n -)  OVER NOTE-ON MS NOTE-OFF ;
>     : .. ( n - ) 1000 PLAY-NOTE ;
>     \ Play a scale starting at the keyhole c.
>     : PLAY-SCALE
>     \ c'  d'    e'    f'    g'    a'    b'    c''
>     60 .. 62 .. 64 .. 65 .. 67 .. 69 .. 71 .. 72 ..
>     3000 MS ;
>     MAKE-SPEAKER-ACCESSABLE PLAY-SCALE
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> The same scale played on mswindows. (Assuming WINMM.DLL is present
> in SYSTEM32. a multimedia library.)
> openmidi sendmidi closemidi are wrappers around dll calls.
> They are slightly more than wrappers, because if you
> do
>      wina -c midi.frt
> a midi.exe is generated that you can transport accross
> windows systems (i.e. no Forth system needs to be present).
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> \ $Id: midi.frt,v 1.7 2015/04/15 02:04:17 albert Exp albert $
> \ Copyright (2012): Albert van der Horst {by GNU Public License}
> \ Uses MIDI facility to play a simple melody.
> \ vrij naar Jones jonesforth
> 
> WANT sendmidi    ( and openmidi closemid )
> WANT CASE-INSENSITIVE     CASE-INSENSITIVE
> 1 CONSTANT 'Grand_Piano'
> 
> VARIABLE instrument
> 
> : midi-errors
> "
>        2001 : Failed to open MIDI output device
>        2002 : Failed to close MIDI output device
>        2003 : Failed to send to MIDI output device
> " TYPE ;
> 
> : -i   SHIFT-ARGS 1 ARG[] EVALUATE instrument ! SHIFT-ARGS ;
> 
> : -h midi-errors
> "
> -h this help
> -i <instr> : install instrument to play on
> " ETYPE
> BYE ;
> 
> HEX
> \ Send a midi start message for NOTE
> : StartNote 8 LSHIFT 7F0090 OR sendmidi ;
> 
> \ Send a midi stop message for NOTE
> : StopNote 8 LSHIFT 80 OR sendmidi ;
> 
> \ Send a midi select message for VOICE
> : SetInstrument 8 LSHIFT 7F00C0 OR sendmidi ;
> DECIMAL
> 
> \ Play a NOTE for TIME milliseconds.
> : PlayNote OVER StartNote MS StopNote ;
> 
> 
> : handle-args  ARGC 1 > IF 1 ARG[] EVALUATE THEN ;
> 
> : play
>    instrument @ SetInstrument
>    70 500 PlayNote
>    72 500 PlayNote
>    68 500 PlayNote
>    56 500 PlayNote
>    63 1000 PlayNote
>    1000 MS
> ;
> 
> : doit   openmidi handle-args play closemidi ;
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> A midiplayer for actual midi files is easy given WINMM.DLL,
> but the margin is too small to contain it.
> 
> Groetjes Albert

I have no idea what your beef is. If I wonder what's it all about in YT, 
I pull up the description, which in this case says:

"Last time, we learned how to create Midi files using Forth. We were 
able to convert old ZX BASIC programs to the library we created - and 
replicate these melodies without too much effort.

In this second part, we say goodbye to the Midi piano and learn how to 
use different instruments. We will see how we can encode musical notes - 
and even raw frequencies."

I have no idea what you want with "playing a scale". Because that's 
trivial in the lib I wrote, since you can reference the notes themselves 
by their name.

I can't remember the last time I used the beeper -- since PCs come with 
sound cards since the turn of the century. But don't let me keep you 
from having fun. If that wets your taste for nostalgia, let it be.

I have no idea whether there is an actual MIDI device in my current 
soundcard -- and frankly I don't care. I tend to use timidity - and that 
works with files.

If I wanna use a Midi sample, I'll pass it through LAME and I got an MP3 
which works just fine with Kdenlive.

The latter example was just fun. I converted it to the library and this 
came out:

include lib/midi-w.4th

---8<---
s" ce3k.mid" MIDopen abort" Can't open Midi file"

Bright_Acoustic_Piano m.Use

  50  10 m.Beep
  50  12 m.Beep
  50   8 m.Beep
  50  -4 m.Beep
100   3 m.Beep

MIDclose
---8<---

This was the first time I created a "beep" file from a MIDI file. Note 
that this format was derived from the ZX Spectrum. So I fired up Fuse 
and typed:

10 BEEP 0.5,10: BEEP 0.5,12: BEEP 0.5,8: BEEP 0.5,-4: BEEP 1,3

And then ran it. Perfect rendition! Written in 4tH, transcribed to BASIC 
and ported to the ZX Spectrum.

You know: we all have our nostalgia weaknesses! :-)

Hans Bezemer

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#135235

On 12/07/2026 2:21 am, Hans Bezemer wrote:
> ... 
> I have no idea whether there is an actual MIDI device in my current soundcard -- and frankly I don't care. I tend to use timidity - and that works with files.

Wondering what might be available to play MID under DOSBOX, I found this:

  https://mateusz.fr/dosmid/

It played a MID file straight up without any extra parms on the command line.
That's probably because DOSBOX was already preconfigured for sound.
FWIW here's what's in my 'dosbox-0.74-3.conf'

  mount C D:\
  C:\
  SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
  PATH Z:\;C:\COMMAND
  CD \FORTH\DX
  MIXER SB 75:75 /NOSHOW
  TURBOKEY D 1

Not sure what the MIXER command did - maybe volume.

Generating midi notes from DX-Forth would require a DOS BAT file - first 
generate the MID file, then invoke the utility above to play it.  Probably
it can all be done within forth as there's a SHELL command.

Wow - I've almost incentivised myself to do it.  You need to stop that :)

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#135236

On 12-07-2026 07:02, dxf wrote:
> On 12/07/2026 2:21 am, Hans Bezemer wrote:
>> ...
>> I have no idea whether there is an actual MIDI device in my current soundcard -- and frankly I don't care. I tend to use timidity - and that works with files.
> 
> Wondering what might be available to play MID under DOSBOX, I found this:
> 
>    https://mateusz.fr/dosmid/
> 
> It played a MID file straight up without any extra parms on the command line.
> That's probably because DOSBOX was already preconfigured for sound.
> FWIW here's what's in my 'dosbox-0.74-3.conf'
> 
>    mount C D:\
>    C:\
>    SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
>    PATH Z:\;C:\COMMAND
>    CD \FORTH\DX
>    MIXER SB 75:75 /NOSHOW
>    TURBOKEY D 1
> 
> Not sure what the MIXER command did - maybe volume.
> 
> Generating midi notes from DX-Forth would require a DOS BAT file - first
> generate the MID file, then invoke the utility above to play it.  Probably
> it can all be done within forth as there's a SHELL command.
> 
> Wow - I've almost incentivised myself to do it.  You need to stop that :)
> 

MIXER is a DOSbox utility: https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/index.php?title=MIXER

It selects the device, left:right volume settings, and executes in quiet 
mode. You'll find it on your "Z:" drive.

4tH does have an external "SYSTEM", which uses the pipes in 4th:

[UNDEFINED] system [IF]                ( a n -- f)
: system output pipe + open error? tuck if drop ;then close ;
[THEN]

Unfortunately, I had some issues with the popen() command in DJGPP, so I 
disabled the pipes. Turbo C v2 didn't have them anyway.

So -- in theory I could do all this, but because I put reliability 
before functionality, no go on DOS. :-(

I must say I've got very little incentive to do anything with DOS 
anyway, so I don't think I'll put much effort into this. I may do on 
Linux, cause it's trivial:

---8<---
include lib/system.4th

128 string cmdline

argn 1- if
   cmdline >r s" timidity --quiet=2 " r@ place 1 args r@ +place
   r> count system abort" Can't execute 'timidity'"
then
---8<---

You could bind the thing into a program that generates it -- but why?

- First you have to issue a command line parameter, otherwise the file 
name and location are predetermined and that makes the whole thing 
awkward. I mean: Why select a filename and directory in the first place?
- Second, if you *would* use a fixed name, you don't need the whole 
shebang. s" timidity --quiet=2 ce3k.mid" would do just fine;
- Third, is it about file generation - or just playing the thing? If 
it's the latter, you could wipe the MID file after completion. This to 
prevent leaving corpses all over your machine.

Hans Bezemer

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#135234

On 11-07-2026 17:09, albert@SPENARNC.XS4ALL.NL wrote:
> Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Now on YT:  https://youtu.be/ExDbY0X7Cvg
>>
>> Hans Bezemer
> I hate that you don't mention what it is all about.
> It is about midi. It invites me to type ExDbYo(or 0) in the newsreader
> cause the newsreader don't support cut and place. So I followed
> up, my editor does it better.
> We are at it, This is the rosetta challenge to play a scale.
> A regular speaker required! MAKE-ACCESSABLE is not needed for MSDOS.
> In linux you want XOS generic OS access, e.g. in ciforth.
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> "$-PREFIX" WANTED  "-scripting-" WANTED
> : MAKE-ACCESSABLE   ( n-) 1 1 $65 XOS
>     DUP IF ." You cannot access i/o ports, become root" CR THROW THEN ;
>     : MAKE-SPEAKER-ACCESSABLE ( - )
>     $42 MAKE-ACCESSABLE   $43 MAKE-ACCESSABLE   $61 MAKE-ACCESSABLE ;
>     : SET-FREQUENCY  ( n - )  $B6 $43 PC!   DUP $42 PC!   8 RSHIFT $42 PC! ;
>     : SPEAKER-ON  ( - )  $61 PC@    3  OR $61 PC! ;
>     : SILENT-SPEAKER  ( -) $61 PC@  $FC AND $61 PC! ;
>     : secunde 17843 18904 */ ;
>     CREATE _notes   35613 ( C2) 12 0 DO DUP , secunde LOOP DROP
>     : >timing    ( n - n) 24 - 12 /MOD SWAP   CELLS _notes + @   SWAP RSHIFT ;
>     : NOTE-ON  ( n-)  >timing SET-FREQUENCY SPEAKER-ON ;
>     : NOTE-OFF ( n-)  DROP SILENT-SPEAKER ;
>     : PLAY-NOTE ( n n -)  OVER NOTE-ON MS NOTE-OFF ;
>     : .. ( n - ) 1000 PLAY-NOTE ;
>     \ Play a scale starting at the keyhole c.
>     : PLAY-SCALE
>     \ c'  d'    e'    f'    g'    a'    b'    c''
>     60 .. 62 .. 64 .. 65 .. 67 .. 69 .. 71 .. 72 ..
>     3000 MS ;
>     MAKE-SPEAKER-ACCESSABLE PLAY-SCALE
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> The same scale played on mswindows. (Assuming WINMM.DLL is present
> in SYSTEM32. a multimedia library.)
> openmidi sendmidi closemidi are wrappers around dll calls.
> They are slightly more than wrappers, because if you
> do
>      wina -c midi.frt
> a midi.exe is generated that you can transport accross
> windows systems (i.e. no Forth system needs to be present).
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> \ $Id: midi.frt,v 1.7 2015/04/15 02:04:17 albert Exp albert $
> \ Copyright (2012): Albert van der Horst {by GNU Public License}
> \ Uses MIDI facility to play a simple melody.
> \ vrij naar Jones jonesforth
> 
> WANT sendmidi    ( and openmidi closemid )
> WANT CASE-INSENSITIVE     CASE-INSENSITIVE
> 1 CONSTANT 'Grand_Piano'
> 
> VARIABLE instrument
> 
> : midi-errors
> "
>        2001 : Failed to open MIDI output device
>        2002 : Failed to close MIDI output device
>        2003 : Failed to send to MIDI output device
> " TYPE ;
> 
> : -i   SHIFT-ARGS 1 ARG[] EVALUATE instrument ! SHIFT-ARGS ;
> 
> : -h midi-errors
> "
> -h this help
> -i <instr> : install instrument to play on
> " ETYPE
> BYE ;
> 
> HEX
> \ Send a midi start message for NOTE
> : StartNote 8 LSHIFT 7F0090 OR sendmidi ;
> 
> \ Send a midi stop message for NOTE
> : StopNote 8 LSHIFT 80 OR sendmidi ;
> 
> \ Send a midi select message for VOICE
> : SetInstrument 8 LSHIFT 7F00C0 OR sendmidi ;
> DECIMAL
> 
> \ Play a NOTE for TIME milliseconds.
> : PlayNote OVER StartNote MS StopNote ;
> 
> 
> : handle-args  ARGC 1 > IF 1 ARG[] EVALUATE THEN ;
> 
> : play
>    instrument @ SetInstrument
>    70 500 PlayNote
>    72 500 PlayNote
>    68 500 PlayNote
>    56 500 PlayNote
>    63 1000 PlayNote
>    1000 MS
> ;
> 
> : doit   openmidi handle-args play closemidi ;
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> A midiplayer for actual midi files is easy given WINMM.DLL,
> but the margin is too small to contain it.
> 
> Groetjes Albert

BTW, according to my research, this is a much closer approximation to 
that theme:

---8<---
include lib/midi-w.4th

s" ce3k.mid" MIDopen abort" Can't open Midi file"

Square_Wave_Lead m.Use                 \ PC 81: Lead 1 (Square)

  0 &D  50 m.Play
  0 &E  50 m.Play
  0 &C  50 m.Play

-1 +to m.Octave

  0 &C  50 m.Play
  0 &G 100 m.Play

MIDclose depth .
---8<---

Hans Bezemer

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