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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #32026

Re: There is no standard

From rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: There is no standard
Date 2014-06-28 18:43 -0400
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <longec$8ul$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <lohun0$h5h$1@dont-email.me> <ee310658-58db-456f-9a57-b6a5b3ed0144@googlegroups.com> <-N6dnWAkBLOntjDOnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@supernews.com> <lokjc0$m3t$1@dont-email.me> <fa310258-f087-4c23-9a43-22fa59177ae2@googlegroups.com>

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On 6/28/2014 5:16 AM, Ilya Tarasov wrote:
> пятница, 27 июня 2014 г., 23:14:55 UTC+3 пользователь rickman написал:
>> On 6/27/2014 4:28 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>>
>>> Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> There is nothing in the standard that requires you to implement counted
>>
>>>>> strings.  I don't know what you mean by "two output numbers for file IO".
>>
>>>>> When you talk about aligning Forth to the current OS API you show that
>>
>>>>> you don't fully understand the extent Forth is used in the embedded
>>
>>>>> world where there is *no* OS many times.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Explain this, please:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> http://pfe.sourceforge.net/pfe-wordsets/file.html
>>
>>>> =====================================================================
>>
>>>> CREATE-FILE( name-ptr name-len open-mode# -- name-file* name-errno# )
>>
>>>> =====================================================================
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> And compare with this:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa363858(v=vs.85).aspx
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> =====================================================================
>>
>>>> HANDLE WINAPI CreateFile(
>>
>>>>    _In_      LPCTSTR lpFileName,
>>
>>>>    _In_      DWORD dwDesiredAccess,
>>
>>>>    _In_      DWORD dwShareMode,
>>
>>>>    _In_opt_  LPSECURITY_ATTRIBUTES lpSecurityAttributes,
>>
>>>>    _In_      DWORD dwCreationDisposition,
>>
>>>>    _In_      DWORD dwFlagsAndAttributes,
>>
>>>>    _In_opt_  HANDLE hTemplateFile
>>
>>>> );
>>
>>>> =====================================================================
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Compare with this:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>          int open(const char *pathname, int flags, mode_t mode);
>>
>>
>>
>> Can you just tell me what your point is?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick
>
> CreateFile accepts pointer to ASCIIZ and returns one parameter, with special code for HANDLE if failed. CREATE-FILE accepts c-addr u and returns handle and error code. If CREATE-FILE is a wrapper for CreateFile, you need to perform an additional actions, and, more important, provide an additional documentation and tutorials instead of referring to Win API. So you must decide, do you want to provide a set of words with similar interface as host OS API functions, or create an additional abstraction layer. Both of this solutions has advantages and disadvantages, but, in any case, overall architecture must not be fragmentary! 'ASCIIZ sucks' is not an argument at all. So what is the reasons to  ignore more common standards and keeping compatibility with old Forth? If you really can list that reasons, it may be useful for the better understanding the overall situation. If not, it may be a detailed issue to the current standard.

That is why I asked in my other reply, "Are you aware that Forth is not 
Windows?"

Even if you only look at the Windows case, is this some huge burden?

If you wish to debate the separate issue of using what you call ASCIIZ, 
I can't see that as a significant issue.  I certainly don't see how you 
referring to it as a "standard" is of any value.  A language would not 
be changed because you can't find a compelling reason to not change it. 
  It would be changed because you found a compelling reason to in fact, 
make the change.

Also, are you aware that ASCIIZ is used in Forth?  Just not everywhere 
and not as part of the standard.  That is the point others have tried to 
make to you.  The standard does not in any way limit what you do with 
your implementation.  I use Win32Forth a lot and that implementation 
supports ASCIIZ along with various conversion words.

-- 

Rick

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Thread

There is no standard Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-24 10:22 -0700
  Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-24 12:47 -0700
  Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-24 12:48 -0700
    Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-24 10:05 -1000
      Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-24 13:19 -0700
        Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-24 10:29 -1000
        Re: There is no standard mhx@iae.nl - 2014-06-24 13:33 -0700
          Re: There is no standard AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2014-06-24 22:47 +0200
      Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-24 15:02 -0700
        Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-24 12:50 -1000
          Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 05:22 -0700
            Re: There is no standard anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-06-25 13:39 +0000
              Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 08:16 -0700
                Re: There is no standard anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-06-25 17:04 +0000
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 14:45 -0700
                Re: There is no standard hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-25 15:16 -0700
                Re: There is no standard albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-26 11:47 +0000
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 12:22 -0700
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-26 13:03 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 15:06 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 15:08 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-26 18:47 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 16:03 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 16:25 -0700
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-26 20:21 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 04:53 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 06:56 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 08:30 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 08:45 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 11:01 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 11:14 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 11:20 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 11:43 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 13:12 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 14:10 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-28 14:24 -0400
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-27 14:08 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-26 17:45 -1000
                Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-26 15:05 -1000
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 05:03 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-06-26 09:29 -0500
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 12:46 -0700
                Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 16:10 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 15:15 -0700
                Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 22:29 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-06-27 03:28 -0500
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 08:22 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-06-27 10:30 -0500
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 08:52 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 11:13 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 11:29 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 12:32 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-27 12:42 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-28 15:32 -0400
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-27 13:01 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 13:29 -0700
                Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 16:14 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-28 02:16 -0700
                Re: There is no standard albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-28 12:22 +0000
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-28 07:34 -0700
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-28 10:26 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-28 07:18 -1000
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-28 12:35 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-28 11:31 -1000
                Re: There is no standard Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-06-29 03:20 +0300
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-28 21:11 -0700
                Re: There is no standard albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-29 10:16 +0000
                Re: There is no standard albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-29 11:00 +0000
                Re: There is no standard mhx@iae.nl - 2014-06-29 05:12 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-06-29 15:46 +0300
                Re: There is no standard stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-06-29 14:48 +0000
                Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-28 18:43 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-29 05:58 -0700
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-29 06:35 -0700
                Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-29 11:03 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-06-28 12:13 -0500
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-26 20:51 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 06:33 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-06-27 03:25 -0500
                Re: There is no standard "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-28 14:31 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-29 15:01 +0200
                Re: There is no standard Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-06-29 14:35 -0500
                Re: There is no standard Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-30 03:20 +0200
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-28 21:30 -0700
                Re: There is no standard albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-29 10:27 +0000
              Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 08:18 -0700
            Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-25 07:47 -1000
              Re: There is no standard hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-25 14:48 -0700
              Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 15:25 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 16:51 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 03:54 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-26 08:06 -1000
                Re: There is no standard hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-26 14:08 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 15:46 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 15:54 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 15:55 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-27 00:00 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 07:06 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 07:06 -0700
                Re: There is no standard Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-27 07:13 -0700
                Re: There is no standard "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-30 06:38 -0400
                Re: There is no standard bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-06-26 12:06 -0700
                Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 16:18 -0400
                Re: There is no standard Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 15:23 -0700
                Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 22:31 -0400
  Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-24 16:01 -0400
    Re: There is no standard Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2014-06-25 05:04 -0500
      Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 15:44 -0400
        Re: There is no standard googlegroups@mailfilter.33mail.com - 2014-06-25 13:52 -0700
        Re: There is no standard barrym95838@yahoo.com - 2014-06-26 14:16 -0700
          Re: There is no standard m II <C@in.the.hat> - 2014-06-26 19:37 -0600
          Re: There is no standard rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-26 22:35 -0400
  Re: There is no standard Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-25 09:47 -0700
    Re: There is no standard Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-25 10:10 -0700
    Re: There is no standard "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-25 18:16 -0400
      Re: There is no standard BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2014-06-28 13:52 -0700

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