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Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories

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Paul Rubin wrote:

> I wonder if those of you who developed Forth programs in the era of
> blocks and screens could say what it was like, compared to today's Forth
> environments.
> 
> What Forth system did you use?  What code editor?  What hardware?
> 
> Did you use the scheme of having a comment screen for each code screen?
> 
> What kind of planning process did you use, before you started coding?
> E.g. did you write a (maybe informal) code glossary ahead of time?
> 
> Did you feel constrained by the 64 char lines, especially if you used
> stack comments?  Were stack comments expected then the way they are now?
> 
> How did you debug?  Was it common for the whole machine to lock up if
> your program had a bug that clobbered memory?  What did you do when that
> happened?
> 
> How did development time for a Forth program compare to writing
> something similar in BASIC, for the problems BASIC could handle?  I know
> that Forth could do a lot of things that were essentially impossible in
> BASIC, but I'm not asking about those.

Pheww!!!! you guys were busy yesterday!

I only came to Forth in 1982. Previous to that, while I had dealt with 
languages like BASIC (various types), MUMPS and Fortran IV, I did most of my 
serious controller programming in machine code or, if I was lucky, 
Assembler. The Switches and Lamps entry method was very well known to me and 
I guess it was not too dissimilar to playing a piano.

I was became interested in Forth when someone gave me a copy of "Starting 
Forth". I had a BBC B Micro at the time (6502 based) and soon found a copy 
of the BBC Forth and Joe Brown Forth. I enjoyed the playtime with it at the 
time. I added an ATARI MegaST 4 to my computer inventory which gave me a 
3.5" floppy and soon after also added the 30Mb hard disk drive. I obtained 
MPE's GemForth-ST for the machine and got more into Forth. Needing a more 
portable arrangement I picked up a Zenith PC with two 3.5" floppies. I soon 
found that the two disk formats were able to be kept similar enough that I 
could transfer between machines.

All the Forth's I used in that era had screen editors built in. The MPE 
Forth's had blocks in files, which helped storage management a little as I 
could create individual block-files for each project (some of them became 
nothing more than LOAD's from the selected blocks from my library of code.

I never used the shadow screen approach, preferring instead to include 
enough comments within the source code itself (that way the comments never 
got parted from the code). It is still the form I use today now I have gone 
to entirely files. This style became central to my approach in High 
Integrity Control Systems and my methods for software certification. I had 
already done "correct by construction" machine code so Forth for me became 
probably the best macro assembler ever.

-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

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blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 11:08 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 12:35 -1000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories empty-buffers <empty.buffersYOU-DONT-WANT-THIS@gmail.NEITHER-THIS.com> - 2015-01-08 23:24 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 15:36 -0800
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 16:42 -1000
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 22:55 -0800
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 21:12 -1000
              Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 23:27 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 21:41 -1000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-01-09 02:21 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-09 09:21 -1000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-09 13:07 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-09 11:46 -1000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories empty-buffers <empty.buffersYOU-DONT-WANT-THIS@gmail.NEITHER-THIS.com> - 2015-01-11 13:58 +0000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-01-13 14:37 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 18:30 -1000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 20:47 -0800
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 20:49 -1000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-09 13:02 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories a.daniel.eliason@gmail.com - 2015-01-08 14:45 -0800
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 15:50 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2015-01-08 22:34 -0500
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 17:48 -1000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-08 21:13 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-01-08 21:09 -1000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-01-09 09:34 +0100
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2015-01-09 12:26 +0100
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-01-09 08:10 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2015-01-09 03:36 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-09 14:14 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-09 15:25 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-01-09 20:20 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-09 20:47 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-09 13:08 -0800
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-01-09 21:34 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-10 14:00 -0800
              Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-11 11:45 -0800
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-09 13:28 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-10 22:41 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-10 18:49 -0800
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-11 09:27 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-01-11 11:51 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Steve Graham <jsgrahamus@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-12 14:46 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2015-01-13 00:30 +0000
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Wolf Wejgaard <wejgaard@gmail.com> - 2015-01-12 06:32 -0800
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-01-12 20:35 -0500
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-01-13 03:06 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-25 18:25 +0000
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-15 23:08 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2015-01-16 03:09 -0800
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-16 18:25 +0000
      Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-25 21:05 +0000
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-01-26 01:08 +0100
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-26 00:56 +0000
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-26 02:12 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-01-26 18:09 +0000
              Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories lynx <rinkasu@kaze.void.null> - 2015-01-27 07:42 +0000
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 01:25 -0800
                Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-01-29 10:20 +0000
          Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-01-26 12:10 +0000
            Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-01-26 22:18 +0100
        Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2015-01-27 08:44 -0500
  Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-01-14 10:23 +1100
    Re: blocks and screens, tell your war stories hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-01-13 19:47 -0800

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