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Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only?

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Mark Wills wrote:

> On Wednesday, 20 August 2014 22:00:29 UTC+1, Paul E Bennett  wrote:
>> 
>> If no-one is putting effort into establishing this SynthOS onto the
>> processor of your choice, who is going to have sufficient overview to
>> know the quality of what is embedded onto the hardware to be able to
>> produce certification for systems where such things matter?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> ********************************************************************
>> 
>> Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
>> 
>> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
>> 
>> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
>> 
>> Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
>> 
>> Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
>> 
>> ********************************************************************
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Any OS that is treated as a black box cannot be easily certified, as we
> know. It may be possible to take credit for an OS using the "proven in
> use" concept, but I haven't met a certifying authority (yet) that is
> prepared to accept that for modern operating systems such as Windows,
> Linux, and QNX. How does one quantify it for a PFD calculation? These are
> the sort of questions that I have never been able to get a satisfactory
> answer to!

My question was a bit 'tounge in cheek' but I have noted areas with other 
languages where they try to convince you of the worth of the certification 
but I still find it hard to beleive they have done a thorough enough job. 
NPL is still running a large number of compilations per evening on a range 
of C compilers and still not getting much agreement between compilers 
supposedly adhering to the same standard.
 
> Certification is extremely unlikely unless the OS is very simple and could
> be fully de-constructed and fully understood. It would be more
> cost-effective to start from scratch, with an in-house design, following
> appropriate design standards (e.g. 61508).
>
> I've some experience with safety-critical software systems. As we know,
> one starts by reducing the problem definition into its most simplest
> constituents. Simplicity=good, complexity=bad. I start by *not* having an
> operating system. They've all worked. The first one I did was for BP in
> 1999 (IIRC) at the Grangemouth refinery. It's still in use, since the
> original vendor still supports the hardware.

Seems like you and I are quite experienced in that arena. With a Forth based 
system it is not too hard to apply a full certification for code integrity 
and quality that is to at least the same standing as that for electronics 
hardware.


Regards

Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET
Systems Engineer

-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET.....<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy.............<http://www.hidecs.co.uk>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************

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SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-08-20 08:23 -0700
  Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-20 09:05 -0700
  Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-20 12:16 -0500
  Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-08-20 20:58 +0000
  Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-08-20 22:00 +0100
    Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-08-21 03:10 -0700
      Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-08-22 01:43 +0100
        Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-08-22 00:41 -0700
  Re: SynthOS - the end for Forth on microcontrollers or a challenge for Forth only? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-08-21 10:17 -0700

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