Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.
References	(2 earlier) <k517s4$v53$1@speranza.aioe.org> <1959153.WGPeNqMep8@sunwukong.fritz.box> <k51op4$4o6$1@dont-email.me> <7xfw5nscys.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <1788394.NIAO6PipmW@sunwukong.fritz.box>
Date	2012-10-09 15:26 -0700
Message-ID	<7xr4p7s2ms.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> (permalink)
Organization	Nightsong/Fort GNOX

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
> The engineer that had to take over my work didn't take that long to
> learn b16 Forth ... Well, it's only a small subset of Forth, but it
> still *is* Forth.

I'd consider it to be a slightly weird machine language, like the F18's.
As such, someone who's programmed other devices in assembler can
probably deal with it, by treating the Forth as assembly code.  Of
course there's a big productivity hit compared to writing in a HLL.

> If you assume that your programmers can't learn another language 
> quickly, you should question that assumption.  

It's not just languages but the body of tools and techniques that the
languages come with.  Assembly language is conceptually very simple, but
writing big assembly programs without creating a nest of bugs requires
careful technique that takes a while to develop.  It's much easier with
HLL's.

> In the job I had at that company, I was confronted with Verilog (as
> part of the digital design), Lua (a measurement equipment used that as
> embedded language), Tcl (as scripting language in most Cadence
> products), Skill (scripting language in the integrated analog/mixed
> signal design system from Cadence), LabView, and maybe some I forgot.

Tcl is pretty trivial and Lua is straightforward to someone who's
Lisp/Python/Javascript/etc.  I don't know about Skill or Labview.  I've
been interested in Verilog for a while, and maybe I'm overestimating its
difficulty or maybe I'm just not all that bright, but I currently think
of learning it (to the point of being able to implement nontrivial
circuits that aren't full of bugs or bad performance mistakes) to be a
fairly major undertaking.  Forth as a HLL is something like that too,
from what I can tell.

> My boss told me I rather should have written the program in C ...
> This was a 500 lines program...

C is itself a clunky legacy language, still useful for some things, but
often not really what you're competing against.  If you're writing a GUI
to externally control some lab gizmo, you should compare the effort of
writing your 500 lines of Forth to implementing in (e.g.) Python, or as
a HTML web app running on a PC.

Thread

Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "B.Person" <bruce.person@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 07:16 -0700
  Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 10:44 -0700
    Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 10:45 -0700
    Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-09-28 11:42 -0700
  Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Jecel <jecel@merlintec.com> - 2012-09-28 11:39 -0700
  Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-28 11:44 -0700
  Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-09-29 14:55 -0400
    Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-29 12:13 -0700
      Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-09-29 23:13 +0200
        Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-29 17:30 -0700
          Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-09-29 17:59 -1000
            Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Anonymous <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> - 2012-09-30 13:50 +0000
              Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-10-02 23:53 +1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201210.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-10-03 19:10 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-03 07:41 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. vandys@vsta.org - 2012-10-03 18:06 +0000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-03 20:22 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-04 08:39 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-04 07:51 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-04 14:05 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-04 09:26 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-04 19:23 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. vandys@vsta.org - 2012-10-05 00:41 +0000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-05 15:43 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. vandys@vsta.org - 2012-10-05 21:14 +0000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-07 17:58 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-10-04 13:40 +1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-03 21:34 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Anonymous <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> - 2012-10-04 09:49 +0000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-10-10 00:10 +1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-09 16:42 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 14:01 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-09 11:43 -0700
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-09 09:02 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 15:34 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-09 09:53 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 16:06 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-09 17:00 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-10 20:54 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-11 19:26 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-12 23:52 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-10-13 07:56 -1000
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 15:06 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-10 01:29 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 15:31 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-09 14:14 -0700
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-09 21:37 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-09 15:26 -0700
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-10 02:21 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-09 19:40 -0700
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-10-04 17:07 -0400
        Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-09-29 22:12 -0400
          Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-09-29 18:38 -1000
          Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-09-29 23:38 -0700
            Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Jecel <jecel@merlintec.com> - 2012-09-30 11:47 -0700
            Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-02 00:19 -0400
              Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-02 16:06 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-05 14:50 -0700
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-06 03:14 +0200
          Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-09-30 16:34 +0200
            Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-10-01 02:31 -0400
              Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-01 01:27 -0700
              Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-01 16:57 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-10-02 16:51 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-03 02:48 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-10-04 17:47 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-05 00:39 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-10-06 18:47 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-10-02 19:23 -0700
  Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-09-30 17:05 -0700
    Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cmm> - 2012-10-01 02:26 -0400
      Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-10-05 19:45 +0000
    Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-10-04 13:22 +0000
    Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) awegel@arcor.de (Alex Wegel) - 2012-10-06 02:37 +0200
  Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 01:38 -0700
    Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 20:43 +0100
      Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 20:56 +0100
      Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 16:00 -0400
        Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 21:05 +0100
          Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 16:40 -0400
            Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2012-10-08 23:16 +0100
              Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 00:19 -0700
                Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 18:43 +0100
          Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2012-10-09 09:59 +0000
            Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Chris Hinsley <chris.hinsley@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 18:46 +0100
        Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) marko <marko@marko.marko> - 2012-10-10 07:29 +1100
          Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 17:11 -0400
            Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-10 01:11 +0200
              Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-09 20:46 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-10-10 14:48 +0200
                Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-12 13:35 -0700
                Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-13 00:01 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2012-10-13 20:51 -0400
                Re: Your next supercomputer! Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-10-14 17:36 -0400
  Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2012-10-12 13:34 -0700
  Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip.  (link supplied) "B.Person" <bruce.person@gmail.com> - 2012-10-26 13:35 -0700
    Re: Your next supercomputer!  Just $99 for 16 ARM cores on a chip. (link supplied) "B.Person" <bruce.person@gmail.com> - 2012-10-27 08:54 -0700

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