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Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)?

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"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>On 9/21/16 2:26 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>>> On 9/12/16 1:02 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>>> anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
>>>>>>> Gforth provides NEXTNAME ( c-addr u -- ),
...
>>>>> Questions that might be asked are: How much common practice is there?
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me like many Forths must already have a mechanism like that
>>>> under the covers somewhere.
>>>
>>> They all do, but they're very different. There's not enough common
>>> practice to standardize.
>>
>> I am not aware that any other Forth system has anything like NEXTNAME,
>> but if they all have, please enlighten me.
>>
>> And that would certainly be common practice; we have a standardization
>> process for overcoming the differences in the details; before the
>> Forth-94 effort, every hosted system had a way to open a file, all
>> different; the Forth-94 committee fortunately did not take the stance
>> that there was no common practice; instead, they standardized
>> OPEN-FILE, R/O, R/W, W/O, and BIN.
>
>All the Forths I'm familiar with (which is several) have a lower level 
>of factoring than CREATE, segregating the functions of getting the 
>string and constructing the head of the new definition. The problem is 
>that the factoring itself differs, which means there is insufficient 
>standard practice to standardize (the long form of what I was trying to 
>say above).

Different factorings of defining words are not a problem for
implementing NEXTNAME (and only indirectly for POSTFIX): No matter how
the defining words are factored, at some point they get the name of
the word to be defined; and at that point you replace the code that
gets the name from the input stream with code that either gets the
name from the input stream or uses the name provided by NEXTNAME
(or, for POSTFIX, takes the name from the stack).

Implementable in any Forth system no matter how the defining words are
factored, although of course the usual suspects will say that they
don't dare to change their Forth system because they fear breaking
code, etc.  As a serious customer of these systems, I would wonder if
I should be reassured by the dedication to not breaking code, or
alarmed that the system is so brittle that the system vendor does not
even try what happens when a piece of code is replaced with a piece of
code that does the same thing in the default case (when NEXTNAME is
not used).

The POSTFIX method also just hooks in the same place, but in order for
POSTFIX to be useful, the defining words all have to be factored such
that no internal data is on the stack when the get-the-name code is
performed.  Unlike some other Forthers, I really, *really* dislike
introducing global or user state, but in this case passing the name on
the stack did look like the greater evil, and I bit the bullet and
introduced global/user state for this purpose.

Of course, later we discovered EXECUTE-PARSING, and that allows us to
use existing global/user state (the input stream), avoiding the need
for additional state, at least for the cases where EXECUTE-PARSING is
sufficient.

>>> Yes. Andrew's comment is accurate.
>>
>> None of the many lines you quoted was written by anyone called Andrew
>> (unless Paul Rubin is also called Andrew; I definitely am not).
>>
>> A better way to say what you mean is to reduce the quoted material to
>> that what you agree with, and then express your agreement.  Of course,
>> the question remains if "I agree" postings really contribute something
>> useful.
>
>Andrew responded to the same message I was responding to, and so his 
>text was not available to include.

In that case, the way to go would have been to followup on Andrews
post with your "I agree" post, if your agreement merits expressing at
all.  Another way that burdens the reader more and is therefore worse
is to mention the Message-Id of Andrews post that you agree with.
Your method is worst, burdening the reader the most, referring to some
unspecified posting that may be among the read postings (and I
certainly won't ask my news server to show me all read messages,
because that takes 30+ minutes), or may not have arrived at the
reader's news server yet (in which case asking for the read messages
would not buy anything) and not even doing that clearly.  Come on, you
are not a Usenet newbie, you should know how it works.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Alex Dowad <alexinbeijing@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 06:12 -0700
  Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-11 10:51 -0500
    Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Alex Dowad <alexinbeijing@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 09:49 -0700
    Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-11 19:57 +0200
      Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-12 02:43 -0500
    Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-11 14:31 -0700
  Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-11 10:14 -0700
  Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-12 07:46 +0000
    Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 01:10 -0700
      Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-12 09:01 +0000
        Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 14:02 +0200
          Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-09-20 12:06 +1000
            Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-20 11:27 +0200
        Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 13:02 -0700
          Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-13 16:20 +0000
            Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-13 21:08 +0200
              Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 17:30 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-14 07:11 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-14 18:30 -0700
          Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-15 02:46 -0500
          Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-20 14:27 -0700
            Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-20 15:05 -0700
              Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-20 22:19 +0000
            Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-21 12:26 +0000
              Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 15:11 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? mhx@iae.nl - 2016-09-21 10:06 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 21:12 +0200
              Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-21 12:06 -1000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-21 15:40 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-09-22 13:04 +1000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-22 07:40 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 15:46 +0100
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-22 11:08 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-22 22:04 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 10:21 +0100
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-23 12:06 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-23 10:44 -0500
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-23 16:26 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-24 03:46 -0500
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-24 10:13 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-24 10:34 -0500
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-24 20:19 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-24 09:47 -1000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-24 14:29 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-24 13:00 -1000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-24 16:19 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-09-24 19:02 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-24 21:23 -1000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-25 19:08 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-09-25 19:53 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-25 20:00 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-25 17:40 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-25 01:42 -0500
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-24 23:45 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-25 02:22 -0500
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-26 15:31 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-26 10:42 -0500
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-27 15:57 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-27 19:11 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-24 21:28 -1000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-25 18:55 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-25 09:35 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-26 15:38 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-09-26 12:36 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-24 20:26 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-25 15:22 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-25 10:44 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 19:55 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-25 20:15 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 20:26 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-25 11:12 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 11:30 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-26 14:51 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-27 14:16 +0200
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-23 07:52 -1000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-23 10:36 -0500
    Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 13:55 +0200
      Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-12 15:01 +0200
      Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-12 17:29 +0000
        Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 21:02 +0200
          Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 13:04 -0700
            Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 22:33 +0200
              Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-16 18:38 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-17 05:33 +0000
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-17 01:40 -0500
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-16 23:47 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-09-17 00:08 -0700
                Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-17 17:03 +0000
            Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 22:35 +0200
            Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-09-17 08:16 +0100
  Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 02:49 -0700
    Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 14:04 +0200
    Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-12 09:34 -0500
      Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 08:10 -0700
        Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-12 12:02 -0500
  Re: Given a string, create word with that name (in ANS Forth)? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 14:08 +0200

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