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Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News

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From Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News
Date Mon, 7 Mar 2016 19:19:29 -0500
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On Sun, 06 Mar 2016 11:00:03 GMT
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:

> Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> writes:

> Well, go over to comp.lang.c[.std] and ask them about
> the standardness of the implementation I give in the paper.
> I am sure they will cite verse and chapter of the C standard
> on that.

...
 
> The funny thing is that in the beginning I did not know that
> one cannot implement memmove() in standard C.

Did you even read the standard?

It tells you exactly how you can implement memmove() in
standard C without any UB (undefined behavior),i.e., by
using a temporary, intermediate buffer.

It also hints that the preferred method for implementing
memmove() is to use IB (implementation behavior), not UB.
I.e., starts with "as if".


C99 (12/01/1999 2nd Ed., ISO/IEC 9899:1999(E), not a draft)

C99 7.21.2.2 The 'memmove' function, pg 325

"The 'memmove' function copies n characters from the object pointed
to by s2 into the object pointed to by s1. Copying takes place as if
the n characters from the object pointed to by s2 are first copied
into a temporary array of n characters that does not overlap the
objects pointed to by s1 and s2, and then the n characters from the
temporary array are copied into the object pointed to by s1."


FYI, P.J. Plauger, an ANSI X3J11 C committee member, uses pointer
comparisons in his implementation of memmove() for his C library
book which is 100% ANSI C compliant and the basis of the C library
used by Dinkumware.  His C library passes the Plum Hall C Validation
Suite for C compliance.  So, maybe, there is some other rationale
which allows memmove() to work with supposed UB pointer comparisons
of "In all other cases, the behavior is undefined." in C99 6.5.8 sub 5
pg 85.  I.e., it uses IB or it's assumed that the user will only use
overlapped memory regions for memmove().


Also, see my reply to Bernd as to why complying with that phrase
for pointer comparison being UB breaks C in many ways.


Rod Pemberton

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OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-03 16:24 -0800
  Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 21:06 -0800
    Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 07:18 +0200
    Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-03 21:33 -0800
      Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-04 17:52 +0000
    Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-04 12:32 +0000
      Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-04 18:20 +0000
        Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-05 02:23 +0000
          Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-03-04 19:06 -0800
            Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-05 20:32 -0500
          Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-06 11:28 +0000
            Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-06 18:02 +0000
              Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-06 23:55 +0000
            Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-03-06 14:48 -0800
              Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-03-07 03:36 -0800
            Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-07 19:19 -0500
              Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 17:40 +0000
        Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-05 03:35 -0600
          Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-05 13:37 +0000
            Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-05 15:42 -0600
              Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-06 00:50 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-05 20:33 -0500
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-06 02:01 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-06 11:57 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-07 07:35 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-07 12:40 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-07 19:20 -0500
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-08 00:49 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-06 02:20 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-07 00:35 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-07 02:53 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-07 16:07 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-08 05:17 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-08 22:01 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-09 03:14 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-09 11:17 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-09 23:58 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-10 04:45 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-10 11:39 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-10 13:29 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 16:02 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-10 08:22 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 15:49 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-12 13:35 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-10 21:58 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-11 06:11 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-12 00:05 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-12 04:23 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 12:05 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-12 08:36 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 16:57 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-12 13:44 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 14:29 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-03-11 15:02 -1000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 16:20 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-12 13:53 -0600
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-06 13:02 +0000
          Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-06 11:52 +0000
            Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-06 12:42 -0600
              Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-06 13:12 -0600
  Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 07:20 +0200
  Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-04 17:37 +0000
  Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-03-04 11:23 -0800
    Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-03-09 03:24 -0600
  Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-04 21:01 -0500
    Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-05 13:51 +0000
      Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-05 19:43 -0500
        Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-06 01:45 +0000
          Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-07 19:19 -0500
            Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-12 17:24 +0000
              Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-13 12:27 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-03-13 13:50 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-13 19:52 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-03-13 16:08 -0400
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-03-13 13:40 -0700
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-14 00:41 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-03-13 18:23 -0700
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-14 02:59 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-03-13 20:29 -0700
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-14 22:44 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-03-14 16:23 -0700
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-03-14 23:55 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-03-14 17:19 -0700
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-14 19:26 -0500
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-15 00:48 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-03-14 22:30 -0700
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-15 07:23 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-15 10:09 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-03-15 08:56 -0700
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-15 19:33 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-03-17 09:46 +0100
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-03-17 09:37 -0400
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-03-17 18:40 +0100
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-03-17 13:53 -0400
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News invalid <address@is.invalid> - 2016-03-17 18:00 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-03-17 18:37 +0100
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-03-18 14:36 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-03-14 09:17 +0100
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-14 22:56 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-14 20:00 -0500
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-03-15 11:22 +0100
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-03-14 22:38 +0000
                Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Randy Howard <rhoward.mx@EverybodyUsesIt.com> - 2016-03-14 01:40 -0500
    Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-06 11:00 +0000
      Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Rod Pemberton <NoHaveNotOne@bcczxcfre.cmm> - 2016-03-07 19:19 -0500
        Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-03-08 01:02 +0000
  Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2016-03-14 07:29 -0700
    Re: OT: One of Anton's papers makes Hacker News anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-03-18 17:45 +0000

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