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Groups > comp.lang.c > #7572 > unrolled thread

C is fixed or not ?

Started byDavid Remacle <listes@NOSpamclampin.com>
First post2011-07-04 07:31 +0000
Last post2011-07-06 16:07 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 197 — 35 participants

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Contents

  C is fixed or not ? David Remacle <listes@NOSpamclampin.com> - 2011-07-04 07:31 +0000
    Re: C is fixed or not ? China Blue Dolls <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-04 00:46 -0700
      Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-04 23:03 -0500
        Re: C is fixed or not ? China Blue Dolls <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-04 21:17 -0700
          Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 16:59 -0500
    Re: C is fixed or not ? Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> - 2011-07-04 09:06 +0100
      Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-04 23:05 -0500
        Re: C is fixed or not ? Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> - 2011-07-06 08:12 +0100
          Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 17:02 -0500
    Re: C is fixed or not ? "Joachim Schmitz" <nospam.jojo@schmitz-digital.de> - 2011-07-04 10:17 +0200
    Re: C is fixed or not ? Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2011-07-04 11:37 +0200
    Re: C is fixed or not ? Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> - 2011-07-04 11:31 +0100
    Re: C is fixed or not ? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-04 08:01 -0700
      Re: C is fixed or not ? Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2011-07-04 17:29 +0200
        Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-04 12:01 -0400
          Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-04 19:20 +0200
            Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-05 07:53 +1200
              Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-04 22:39 +0200
                Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-05 15:33 +1200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-04 23:32 -0500
                Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-04 23:28 -0500
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-05 07:29 +0200
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 17:17 -0500
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 03:37 +0100
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 17:21 -0500
                Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-06 00:09 -0400
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 07:59 +0200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-05 23:52 -0700
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-06 11:20 -0400
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-06 09:30 -0700
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-07 08:16 +1200
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2011-07-07 11:13 -0400
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 17:23 +0200
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 08:11 -0700
              Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 03:21 +0100
                Re: C is fixed or not ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-05 19:41 -0700
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 04:15 +0100
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-05 23:42 -0400
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 08:44 -0400
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 15:00 +0100
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-06 23:22 -0400
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 22:23 -0500
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-06 11:32 -0400
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 10:27 -0700
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 19:41 +0200
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-07 00:19 -0400
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 09:24 +0200
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-10 16:27 -0400
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 00:21 +0100
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 23:20 -0400
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 00:04 -0400
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 22:52 -0500
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-07 23:47 -0500
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 01:59 -0400
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-07 00:22 -0400
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 15:25 +0100
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 08:01 +1200
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 22:59 -0500
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 22:57 -0500
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-10 16:03 -0400
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-11 08:19 +1200
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-12 00:31 -0400
                                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-12 19:39 +1200
                                      Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-12 06:06 -0400
                                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-12 22:14 +1200
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 19:11 -0400
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 22:49 -0500
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-06 17:05 -0700
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-07 00:27 -0400
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-07 06:39 -0400
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-07 12:45 +0200
                              POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows (was: C is fixed or not ?) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2011-07-07 15:17 +0200
                                Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-07-07 11:21 -0700
                                  Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 08:07 +1200
                                    Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-07 16:01 -0500
                                      Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 21:12 -0500
                                        Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-07 23:33 -0500
                                          Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 23:49 -0500
                                        Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-08-03 07:32 -0700
                                    Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-07-07 15:06 -0700
                                  Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-10 16:08 -0400
                                    Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-07-10 16:09 -0700
                                      Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-11 06:20 -0400
                                        Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-11 22:36 +1200
                                    Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2011-07-11 16:18 +0000
                                Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows (was: C is fixed or not ?) Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 19:01 -0700
                                Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows (was: C is fixed or not ?) "Ersek, Laszlo" <lacos@caesar.elte.hu> - 2011-07-14 23:05 +0200
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 15:30 +0100
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-07 11:00 -0400
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-07 13:30 -0500
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 21:30 -0500
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 02:34 -0400
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 01:35 +0100
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-12 22:30 -0400
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk> - 2011-07-10 01:31 +0100
                                Windows Posix Support (was Re: C is fixed or not ?) Todd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com> - 2011-07-10 01:06 +0000
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 01:25 +0100
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-12 22:50 -0400
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-13 17:27 -0400
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk> - 2011-07-16 03:00 +0100
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 22:35 -0500
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-06 17:24 -0700
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-07 07:02 -0400
                Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-06 14:46 +1200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 04:04 +0100
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-06 09:25 +0200
            Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-04 23:20 -0500
              Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-05 07:33 +0200
                Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 17:49 -0500
            Re: C is fixed or not ? jameskuyper <jameskuyper@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 14:47 -0700
              Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 03:11 +0100
                Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-06 14:26 +1200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 04:00 +0100
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-06 15:22 +1200
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 14:36 +0100
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-07 07:56 +1200
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-08 02:15 +0300
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 15:31 +1200
                Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-05 23:29 -0400
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 14:34 +0100
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 22:00 -0500
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 13:20 +0100
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-08 10:47 -0400
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 11:07 -0400
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-08 14:56 -0500
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-13 07:50 -0700
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-14 21:00 -0500
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-15 14:29 +1200
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-14 22:58 -0500
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-15 11:31 +0100
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 21:49 -0500
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-16 15:00 +1200
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 23:08 -0500
                                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-16 16:23 +1200
                                      Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 23:50 -0500
                                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-16 17:13 +1200
                                          Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 00:26 -0500
                                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-07-16 08:23 +0100
                                          Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 03:35 -0500
                                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-07-16 10:17 +0100
                                              Re: C is fixed or not ? Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-07-16 10:21 +0100
                                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 04:39 -0500
                                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-07-16 12:22 +0100
                                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 16:14 -0500
                                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-07-17 08:01 +0200
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-16 13:48 +0100
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 23:56 -0500
                                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-17 13:48 +0100
                                      Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-18 06:32 -0500
                                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-19 01:14 +0100
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-15 00:50 -0700
                          Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 22:44 -0500
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-15 20:58 -0700
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-15 23:09 -0500
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-07-16 08:24 +0100
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 03:38 -0500
                                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-07-16 10:17 +0100
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-07-16 11:46 +0000
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-16 14:53 -0400
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-16 23:58 -0500
                                Re: C is fixed or not ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-18 02:47 -0700
                                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-18 06:41 -0500
                            Re: C is fixed or not ? Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-18 02:46 -0700
                              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-18 06:46 -0500
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-15 01:24 -0700
                Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 21:49 -0500
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 12:47 +0100
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-08 17:44 -0500
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? Oliver Jackson <chexmofo@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-09 00:46 -0700
              Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 08:33 +0200
                Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-06 20:10 +1200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 14:35 +0200
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-06 11:45 -0400
                      Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-06 19:35 +0100
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 21:10 +0200
                        Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 21:44 +0200
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-07 07:58 +1200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> - 2011-07-06 15:59 +0100
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 17:39 +0200
                    Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-07 08:03 +1200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-06 17:16 +0200
              Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-07 21:39 -0500
                Re: C is fixed or not ? Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-07-08 12:42 +0100
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-07-08 15:19 +0200
                  Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-08 17:46 -0500
          Re: C is fixed or not ? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-07-04 17:35 -0700
            Re: C is fixed or not ? Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> - 2011-07-06 08:26 +0100
              Re: C is fixed or not ? Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-07 19:52 +0300
          Re: C is fixed or not ? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-07-05 08:09 -0700
        Re: C is fixed or not ? Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2011-07-05 16:04 +0200
      Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-04 23:07 -0500
      Re: C is fixed or not ? "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-06 17:11 -0700
        Re: C is fixed or not ? Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> - 2011-07-07 16:29 +0100
          Re: C is fixed or not ? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-08 08:09 +1200
    Re: C is fixed or not ? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-04 14:35 -0700
    Re: C is fixed or not ? "MikeP" <mp011011@some.org> - 2011-07-04 23:01 -0500
    Re: C is fixed or not ? Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> - 2011-07-06 16:07 +0100

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#8104 — Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows

Fromlawrence.jones@siemens.com
Date2011-07-10 16:08 -0400
SubjectRe: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows
Message-ID<aedpe8-ca1.ln1@jones.homeip.net>
In reply to#7865
William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandclement.com> wrote:
> 
> POSIX threads can be implemented quite comprehensively on Windows:
> 
>         http://sourceware.org/pthreads-win32/conformance.html

Then why is there a long list of unimplemented functions?  Certainly
there are *parts* of pthreads that can be implemented on Windows, but
that's not the same thing as implementing the whole thing.
-- 
Larry Jones

Kicking dust is the only part of this game we really like. -- Calvin

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#8110 — Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows

FromWilliam Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com>
Date2011-07-10 16:09 -0700
SubjectRe: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows
Message-ID<j2ope8-04h.ln1@wilbur.25thandClement.com>
In reply to#8104
In comp.unix.programmer lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
> William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandclement.com> wrote:
> > 
> > POSIX threads can be implemented quite comprehensively on Windows:
> > 
> >         http://sourceware.org/pthreads-win32/conformance.html

> Then why is there a long list of unimplemented functions?  Certainly
> there are *parts* of pthreads that can be implemented on Windows, but
> that's not the same thing as implementing the whole thing.

The list isn't that long. What distinguishes those interfaces is that they
can't be implemented on top of, e.g., the stdio implementation. The original
question, as I understood it, was whether the general architecture of
Windows was a reasonable fit for a POSIX threads implementation. Most of the
library can be implemented without unwarranted chumminess with the
underlying implementation, and the remaining pieces--with signals being the
biggest question mark--would appear to require only minimal cooperation by
the vendor.

Not that I believe C1x should adopt pthreads, mind you. Also, the proposal
was qualified--it suggested adopting a _subset_ of pthreads.

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#8126 — Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-07-11 06:20 -0400
SubjectRe: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows
Message-ID<iveiov$9b4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8110
On 07/10/2011 07:09 PM, William Ahern wrote:
> In comp.unix.programmer lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
>> William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandclement.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> POSIX threads can be implemented quite comprehensively on Windows:
>>>
>>>         http://sourceware.org/pthreads-win32/conformance.html
> 
>> Then why is there a long list of unimplemented functions?  Certainly
>> there are *parts* of pthreads that can be implemented on Windows, but
>> that's not the same thing as implementing the whole thing.
> 
> The list isn't that long. What distinguishes those interfaces is that they
> can't be implemented on top of, e.g., the stdio implementation. The original
> question, as I understood it, was whether the general architecture of
> Windows was a reasonable fit for a POSIX threads implementation. Most of the
> library can be implemented without unwarranted chumminess with the
> underlying implementation, and the remaining pieces--with signals being the
> biggest question mark--would appear to require only minimal cooperation by
> the vendor.
> 
> Not that I believe C1x should adopt pthreads, mind you. Also, the proposal
> was qualified--it suggested adopting a _subset_ of pthreads.

There are two proposals that I'm aware of, neither of which can be
accurately described as a "subset of pthreads". The official proposal is
for changes to the language and a set of new library functions that
could be implemented as thin wrappers for pthreads functions, but are
sufficiently generic in their definitions that they could alternatively
be implemented as thin wrappers for other threading systems.

The second proposal has not been officially made, but has been suggested
in a number of forms in this forum. That proposal is that the entire
pthreads specification from POSIX should be inserted, by reference, into
the C standard. While not explicitly stated, the implications have been
that it would need little or no additional wording would be needed,
beyond the statement that it has been so incorporated.

The list of pthreads features which have not been implemented in Windows
is an argument in favor of the official proposal, over the unofficial
one. In the unlikely event that the second proposal were accepted, a
conforming implementation of C running under Windows would be required
to implement all of the items on that list. How difficult would that be?
If Microsoft has not even attempted to implement them, I imagine it
would be pretty difficult.

The fact that even those features which are available, are available
only in the POSIX Subsystem of Windows, and not for native Windows
programs, is another such argument. If I understand it correctly, the
official proposal defines a system that could be made available even for
native Windows programs.
-- 
James Kuyper

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#8129 — Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2011-07-11 22:36 +1200
SubjectRe: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows
Message-ID<980238F61iU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#8126
On 07/11/11 10:20 PM, James Kuyper wrote:
>
> The list of pthreads features which have not been implemented in Windows
> is an argument in favor of the official proposal, over the unofficial
> one. In the unlikely event that the second proposal were accepted, a
> conforming implementation of C running under Windows would be required
> to implement all of the items on that list. How difficult would that be?
> If Microsoft has not even attempted to implement them, I imagine it
> would be pretty difficult.
>
> The fact that even those features which are available, are available
> only in the POSIX Subsystem of Windows, and not for native Windows
> programs, is another such argument. If I understand it correctly, the
> official proposal defines a system that could be made available even for
> native Windows programs.

Maybe those features will be implemented when they get around to 
implementing C99?

-- 
Ian Collins

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#8135 — Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2011-07-11 16:18 +0000
SubjectRe: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows
Message-ID<dnFSp.16196$467.7869@news.usenetserver.com>
In reply to#8104
lawrence.jones@siemens.com writes:
>William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandclement.com> wrote:
>> 
>> POSIX threads can be implemented quite comprehensively on Windows:
>> 
>>         http://sourceware.org/pthreads-win32/conformance.html
>
>Then why is there a long list of unimplemented functions?  Certainly
>there are *parts* of pthreads that can be implemented on Windows, but
>that's not the same thing as implementing the whole thing.

A quick examination of the list of functions concludes that they
fit into one of the following categories:

  - Not applicable to windows (pthread_atfork, getpwnam_r, et. al.)
  - An optional POSIX feature (robust mutexes)
  - stdio & C Library extensions
  - signals

It looks like cancellation points are the most difficult feature of
pthreads to implement on windows - this reference notes that the
application must explictly code the cancellation points into the
application using non-standard API's.

scott

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#7914 — Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows (was: C is fixed or not ?)

FromJoshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com>
Date2011-07-07 19:01 -0700
SubjectRe: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows (was: C is fixed or not ?)
Message-ID<80d8b7bd-ed7d-4b8e-90c3-543a45e7d355@h11g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#7833
On Jul 7, 6:17 am, Noob <r...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> James Kuyper wrote:
> > Lawrence Jones wrote:
>
> >> Keith Thompson wrote:
>
> >>> I'm not very familiar with this area, but why would just
> >>> incorporating POSIX threads (or perhaps a subset of POSIX threads)
> >>> into the C standard not have been a good solution?
>
> >> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it than I
> >> do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of Windows
> >> because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that Windows doesn't
> >> provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads requires.
>
> > Could you ask those people to provide a more detailed explanation of the
> > problem? I doubt that a naked assertion will convince Rui Maciel, and
> > I'm curious about the reasons myself.
>
> Please note: I've added comp.unix.programmer (for the POSIX aspects)
> and comp.programming.threads (for the threading aspect)
>
> We've been discussing the next revision of the C standard (C1X)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C1X
> Specifically, the inclusion of multi-threading support.
>
> Apparently, Dinkumware's library is being considered, and some
> are wondering why the committee did not consider adopting the
> POSIX API itself, or a subset thereof.
>
> Would enlightened people in either comp.unix.programmer or
> comp.programming.threads comment on these aspects?

Why didn't they adopt the POSIX API itself? I suspect a couple of
reasons.

First compatibility with C++0x. Of course, that begs the question of
why didn't the C, C++, and POSIX committees when working together
decide to adopt the POSIX pthreads standard?

Second, the POSIX pthreads standard is underspecified, and incomplete,
and slightly buggy. It's buggy in the informal simple specification of
try_lock. It's incomplete because it's missing all of the non
sequentially consistent atomics, eg: fences and such. And if you're
going to specify fences portably, you need a rigorously defined memory
model, which C++0x and C1x will give you.

In spirit, C1x and C++0x are compatible in spirit with POSIX pthreads.
They will give you the same primitives with different names, more or
less.

Finally, I suppose you could ask why not fix and extend POSIX
pthreads? They may have been political, see: Windows. Perhaps they
thought they had a better chance to drag Windows kicking and screaming
if they made a new standard?

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#8286 — Re: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows (was: C is fixed or not ?)

From"Ersek, Laszlo" <lacos@caesar.elte.hu>
Date2011-07-14 23:05 +0200
SubjectRe: POSIX threads hard to implement in Windows (was: C is fixed or not ?)
Message-ID<Pine.LNX.4.64.1107142259100.3319@login03.caesar.elte.hu>
In reply to#7833
On Thu, 7 Jul 2011, Noob wrote:

> James Kuyper wrote:
>
>> Lawrence Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm not very familiar with this area, but why would just
>>>> incorporating POSIX threads (or perhaps a subset of POSIX threads)
>>>> into the C standard not have been a good solution?
>>>
>>> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it than I
>>> do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of Windows
>>> because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that Windows doesn't
>>> provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads requires.
>>
>> Could you ask those people to provide a more detailed explanation of the
>> problem? I doubt that a naked assertion will convince Rui Maciel, and
>> I'm curious about the reasons myself.
>
> Please note: I've added comp.unix.programmer (for the POSIX aspects)
> and comp.programming.threads (for the threading aspect)
>
> We've been discussing the next revision of the C standard (C1X)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C1X
> Specifically, the inclusion of multi-threading support.
>
> Apparently, Dinkumware's library is being considered, and some
> are wondering why the committee did not consider adopting the
> POSIX API itself, or a subset thereof.
>
> Would enlightened people in either comp.unix.programmer or
> comp.programming.threads comment on these aspects?

Perhaps relevant, from 2010-Jul:

"harmonization(?) of threading interfaces between POSIX/SUS and C1X"

- POSIX discussion:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.standards.posix.austin.general/2640

- comp.std.c discussion:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.std.c/browse_frm/thread/61d6ab42db75f19a/fe2b250e2864d136

lacos

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#7839

FromRui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com>
Date2011-07-07 15:30 +0100
Message-ID<4e15c44f$0$22156$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>
In reply to#7810
lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:

> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it than I
> do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of Windows
> because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that Windows doesn't
> provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads requires.

Oh really?

Pthread Support in Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX Version 3.5 
Published: June 15, 2004

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463209.aspx


Rui Maciel

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#7842

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-07-07 11:00 -0400
Message-ID<iv4hmg$d5v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7839
On 07/07/2011 10:30 AM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
> 
>> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it than I
>> do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of Windows
>> because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that Windows doesn't
>> provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads requires.
> 
> Oh really?
> 
> Pthread Support in Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX Version 3.5 
> Published: June 15, 2004
> 
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463209.aspx

I looked that over, and couldn't find any direct statement about how
well it conforms with POSIX requirements for pthreads. I did find a
couple of comments which suggested that it might not meet all of them. I
look forward to hearing a detailed description of it's supposed flaws,
so I can evaluation the truth of the claim that it falls short of being
fully conforming.
-- 
James Kuyper

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#7866

FromRobert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com>
Date2011-07-07 13:30 -0500
Message-ID<7dub17hfd3mrcqu7iepimmbggbadouirf0@4ax.com>
In reply to#7839
On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:30:13 +0100, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com>
wrote:

>lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
>
>> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it than I
>> do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of Windows
>> because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that Windows doesn't
>> provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads requires.
>
>Oh really?
>
>Pthread Support in Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX Version 3.5 
>Published: June 15, 2004
>
>http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463209.aspx


Windows SFU gets you a pretty good Unix environment, where you can
compile and run your Unix applications.  It is largely separate from
the Windows API side of things, and there's little or no ability to
use the Windows APIs in an WSFU application (or vice versa).

So the fact that MS (with some outside help) has implemented WSFU on
top of the NT native  API (which is *not* the Win32 API, but the Win32
API is built on top of the native API too), says nothing about the
practicality of implementing pthreads on top of the Win32 threading
functions.  Doubtless you could do a subset, but that won't be wholly
satisfactory in either direction.

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#7917

From"MikeP" <mp011011@some.org>
Date2011-07-07 21:30 -0500
Message-ID<iv5q4a$duv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7866
Robert Wessel wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:30:13 +0100, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it
>>> than I do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of
>>> Windows because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that
>>> Windows doesn't provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads
>>> requires.
>>
>> Oh really?
>>
>> Pthread Support in Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX Version 3.5
>> Published: June 15, 2004
>>
>> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463209.aspx
>
>
> Windows SFU gets you a pretty good Unix environment, where you can
> compile and run your Unix applications.  It is largely separate from
> the Windows API side of things, and there's little or no ability to
> use the Windows APIs in an WSFU application (or vice versa).
>
> So the fact that MS (with some outside help) has implemented WSFU on
> top of the NT native  API (which is *not* the Win32 API, but the Win32
> API is built on top of the native API too),

I hypothesize that SOME of the Win32 is built on top of native, but not 
ALL or even MOST of it. The low-level native has to exist for capability 
or performance reasons, but once enough code is laid down to work at a 
higher level of abstraction, and when one can, one does (they do), 
surely. (By "built on top of" I mean, "implemented in terms of", 
actually).

> says nothing about the
> practicality of implementing pthreads on top of the Win32 threading
> functions.  Doubtless you could do a subset, but that won't be wholly
> satisfactory in either direction. 

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#7945

FromShao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com>
Date2011-07-08 02:34 -0400
Message-ID<iv689n$cu1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7917
On 7/7/2011 22:30, MikeP wrote:
> Robert Wessel wrote:
>>
>> Windows SFU gets you a pretty good Unix environment, where you can
>> compile and run your Unix applications.  It is largely separate from
>> the Windows API side of things, and there's little or no ability to
>> use the Windows APIs in an WSFU application (or vice versa).
>>
>> So the fact that MS (with some outside help) has implemented WSFU on
>> top of the NT native  API (which is *not* the Win32 API, but the Win32
>> API is built on top of the native API too),
>
> I hypothesize that SOME of the Win32 is built on top of native, but not
> ALL or even MOST of it. The low-level native has to exist for capability
> or performance reasons, but once enough code is laid down to work at a
> higher level of abstraction, and when one can, one does (they do),
> surely. (By "built on top of" I mean, "implemented in terms of",
> actually).
>

You are correct.  There is no restriction that the Windows API libraries 
cannot depend on other Windows API libraries; the "Portable Executable 
and Common Object File Format" (for .EXEs, .DLLs, and others) is the 
same, regardless of subsystem.  The "basest" of the Windows API 
libraries depend on the "native" API, certainly.

Whatever the library that is called upon, the environment had better be 
prepared to support it.

Pre-boot programs (OS loader, SCSI driver, etc.)
HAL & Kernel
- Drivers (kernel-land)
- Windows subsystem (kernel-land minority)
- Native-mode programs (user-land)
   - Windows subsystem (user-land majority)
     - Windows programs (common)
   - POSIX subsystem (uncommon, user-land)
     - POSIX programs (uncommon)

You can have a Windows XP system with 0 Windows (as in Windows API) 
components; strictly POSIX.  The more environments, the merrier! :)

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#8210

FromRui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com>
Date2011-07-13 01:35 +0100
Message-ID<4e1ce9f0$0$6872$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>
In reply to#7866
Robert Wessel wrote:

> Windows SFU gets you a pretty good Unix environment, where you can
> compile and run your Unix applications.  It is largely separate from
> the Windows API side of things, and there's little or no ability to
> use the Windows APIs in an WSFU application (or vice versa).
> 
> So the fact that MS (with some outside help) has implemented WSFU on
> top of the NT native  API (which is not the Win32 API, but the Win32
> API is built on top of the native API too), says nothing about the
> practicality of implementing pthreads on top of the Win32 threading
> functions.  

It was already proven that it is possible to create and provide a standard-
complying pthreads API in Windows.  The "practicality" of doing so is 
irrelevant, as what counts is that it is there, it is available and users 
are able to rely on a standard-compliang C threading API in Windows.  And 
finally, let's not confuse technical impossibilities with an unwillingness 
to provide some features.


Rui Maciel

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#8220

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-07-12 22:30 -0400
Message-ID<ivj00h$3hs$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8210
On 07/12/2011 08:35 PM, Rui Maciel wrote:
...
> It was already proven that it is possible to create and provide a standard-
> complying pthreads API in Windows.

So, you're referring to something other than the implementation
described on <http://sourceware.org/pthreads-win32/conformance.html>.
That implementation fails to fully comply due to the items listed in the
section which says "The following functions are not implemented:". So,
what is this other pthreads API in Windows,  the one that does implement
all of those functions, and therefore counts as complying? How may I
clearly distinguish that API from the one described on the web page
referred above?
-- 
James Kuyper

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#8047

From"J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk>
Date2011-07-10 01:31 +0100
Message-ID<ivart8$fjm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7839
Rui Maciel wrote:
> lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
> 
>> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it than I
>> do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of Windows
>> because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that Windows doesn't
>> provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads requires.
> 
> Oh really?
> 
> Pthread Support in Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX Version 3.5 
> Published: June 15, 2004
> 
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463209.aspx

... which implements a subset of an old version of POSIX threads which 
can only be used in programs running in the POSIX subsystem. Nothing to 
do with using POSIX thread interfaces in "normal" Windows programs.

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#8048 — Windows Posix Support (was Re: C is fixed or not ?)

FromTodd Carnes <toddcarnes@gmail.com>
Date2011-07-10 01:06 +0000
SubjectWindows Posix Support (was Re: C is fixed or not ?)
Message-ID<pan.2011.07.10.01.06.52@gmail.com>
In reply to#8047
On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 01:31:35 +0100, J. J. Farrell wrote:

> Rui Maciel wrote:
>> lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
>> 
>>> My understanding, from people who know a whole lot more about it than
>>> I do, is that POSIX threads cannot be implemented on top of Windows
>>> because it presupposes a bunch of POSIX features that Windows doesn't
>>> provide, at least in the form that POSIX threads requires.
>> 
>> Oh really?
>> 
>> Pthread Support in Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX Version 3.5
>> Published: June 15, 2004
>> 
>> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463209.aspx
> 
> ... which implements a subset of an old version of POSIX threads which
> can only be used in programs running in the POSIX subsystem. Nothing to
> do with using POSIX thread interfaces in "normal" Windows programs.

... And none of this has anything to do with the OP's original question.

Todd

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#8209

FromRui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com>
Date2011-07-13 01:25 +0100
Message-ID<4e1ce7a6$0$6872$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>
In reply to#8047
J. J. Farrell wrote:

> ... which implements a subset of an old version of POSIX threads

According to Microsoft's site, their pthreads implementation was released in 
2004 and it conforms to IEEE 1003.1-2001.  As that standard was updated in 
2004 to include an errata and after that ony in 2008 then I fail to see your 
point.


> which
> can only be used in programs running in the POSIX subsystem. Nothing to
> do with using POSIX thread interfaces in "normal" Windows programs.

It appears you are confused.  Larry Jones' assertion was that "POSIX threads 
cannot be implemented on top of Windows", which was already demonstrated to 
be false.  I don't know what you mean by "can only be used in programs 
running in the POSIX subsystem" but independent of what you meant, but that 
doesn't contradict the fact that it is quite possible to provide a standard-
conforming pthreads interface to windows.  And if it is possible to provide 
an API in an OS then the only thing that stops you from using it is your 
will to use it.


Rui Maciel

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#8221

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2011-07-12 22:50 -0400
Message-ID<ivj16e$8m3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8209
On 07/12/2011 08:25 PM, Rui Maciel wrote:
> J. J. Farrell wrote:
> 
>> ... which implements a subset of an old version of POSIX threads
> 
> According to Microsoft's site, their pthreads implementation was released in 
> 2004 and it conforms to IEEE 1003.1-2001.  As that standard was updated in 
> 2004 to include an errata and after that ony in 2008 then I fail to see your 
> point.

The point is that the cited web page makes no claim that Microsoft's
pthreads implementation fully complies with any version of POSIX later
than 2001. You'd think that if they did actually go to the effort of
complying with the current POSIX standard, they'd mention that fact.

>> which
>> can only be used in programs running in the POSIX subsystem. Nothing to
>> do with using POSIX thread interfaces in "normal" Windows programs.
> 
> It appears you are confused.  Larry Jones' assertion was that "POSIX threads 
> cannot be implemented on top of Windows", which was already demonstrated to 
> be false.  I don't know what you mean by "can only be used in programs 
> running in the POSIX subsystem"

Can you write a program that makes use of arbitrary Windows features,
just like any other ordinary Windows program, AND also makes use of the
Windows version of pthreads? Larry's comments imply that there are
Windows-specific facilities that are not available to programs running
under the POSIX subsystem. I wandered around the Microsoft web site for
a while; I found lots of statements suggesting that the POSIX Subsystem
provides a very Unix-like environment; but I couldn't find anything
which addressed the issue of whether or not Windows-specific features
are available to programs operating in that environment.
-- 
James Kuyper

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#8266

Fromlawrence.jones@siemens.com
Date2011-07-13 17:27 -0400
Message-ID<o7f1f8-5rd.ln1@jones.homeip.net>
In reply to#8209
Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It appears you are confused.  Larry Jones' assertion was that "POSIX threads 
> cannot be implemented on top of Windows", which was already demonstrated to 
> be false.

We have different definitons of what "on top of Windows" means.  I mean
"on top of the normal Win32 environment subsystem that essentially all
Windows users and applications use", not "on top of the bare Windows
kernel".

> I don't know what you mean by "can only be used in programs 
> running in the POSIX subsystem"

It means that pthreads are only available in the POSIX environment
subsystem that hardly anyone uses because it provides *only* a Unix-like
environment and not the Win32 environment that most users and
application expect.  For example, in the POSIX environment, file names
look like "/bin/ls", not "C:\Program Files\dir.exe".  The two
environments are completely separate (although implemented on top of the
same kernel) and you have to pick one or the other; you can't use both
at the same time.
-- 
Larry Jones

If I was being raised in a better environment, I wouldn't
do things like that. -- Calvin

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#8331

From"J. J. Farrell" <jjf@bcs.org.uk>
Date2011-07-16 03:00 +0100
Message-ID<ivqrb5$kc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#8209
Rui Maciel wrote:
> J. J. Farrell wrote:
> 
>> ... which implements a subset of an old version of POSIX threads
> 
> According to Microsoft's site, their pthreads implementation was released in 
> 2004 and it conforms to IEEE 1003.1-2001.  As that standard was updated in 
> 2004 to include an errata and after that ony in 2008 then I fail to see your 
> point.

You emphasise my point while failing to see it, which is curious. 
Windows Services for UNIX 3.5 implements a subset of pthreads as defined 
by POSIX 2001. The current definition of pthreads is provided by POSIX 
2008, two generations of POSIX later. The version of POSIX threads 
implemented for the POSIX subsystem of Windows is a subset of POSIX 
threads as it was defined seven years and two generations before the 
current POSIX Standard.

>> which
>> can only be used in programs running in the POSIX subsystem. Nothing to
>> do with using POSIX thread interfaces in "normal" Windows programs.
> 
> It appears you are confused.

I don't believe so.

> Larry Jones' assertion was that "POSIX threads 
> cannot be implemented on top of Windows", which was already demonstrated to 
> be false.

I've not seen any such demonstration. An implementation of a subset of 
an old version of pthreads for an isolated subsystem which is rarely if 
ever used but happens to run on Windows' NT kernel is hardly relevant.

> I don't know what you mean by "can only be used in programs 
> running in the POSIX subsystem"

I mean exactly what I say. Almost everyone, in almost every 
circumstance, when talking about writing user-level software for 
"Windows", is talking about writing software for "the Win32 subsystem on 
Windows". I don't know Larry, but I'll happily bet that's what he meant 
since that is what almost everyone almost always means by that 
shorthand. Most people who write user-mode software for Windows aren't 
even aware that other subsystems can run on the NT kernel. Even if there 
were a conforming implementation of pthreads which could run in the 
POSIX subsystem on top of NT, what possible relevance is that to the 
99.99999% of Windows user mode software which runs in the Win32 
subsystem? That software can't make any use the pthreads implementation, 
it can't use it instead of the Win32 threading primitives, it can't 
interact with it.

> but independent of what you meant, but that 
> doesn't contradict the fact that it is quite possible to provide a standard-
> conforming pthreads interface to windows.

Even the implementation which runs in the POSIX subsystem doesn't 
conform to POSIX; what evidence do you have for this claim that it is 
possible to provide a conforming implementation for use by Windows 
programmers, which means one that runs in the Win32 subsystem?

> And if it is possible to provide 
> an API in an OS then the only thing that stops you from using it is your 
> will to use it.

If it is possible, and if someone reliable chooses to implement and 
supply such an implementation for the Win32 subsystem at no additional 
cost, then you are obviously quite right and there wouldn't be this 
discussion. In this world though, no such implementation exists and 
there are doubts that one is even possible.

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