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Groups > comp.lang.c > #90018 > unrolled thread

double free

Started byG G <gdotone@gmail.com>
First post2016-07-05 02:38 -0700
Last post2016-11-27 10:05 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 354 — 37 participants

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Contents

  double free G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 02:38 -0700
    Re: double free Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-07-05 21:45 +1200
      Re: double free Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2016-07-05 07:08 -0400
      Re: double free G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:41 -0700
    Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-05 10:50 +0100
    Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-05 11:06 +0100
      Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-05 19:07 +0100
    Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-05 12:16 +0000
      Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-05 13:57 +0100
        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-05 08:43 -0700
      Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-05 14:57 +0100
        Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-10 18:49 +0000
      Re: double free G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 17:03 -0700
        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-05 17:25 -0700
      Re: double free Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2016-07-06 19:09 +0000
        Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-06 15:22 -0400
          Re: double free Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2016-07-09 06:13 +0100
            Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-09 10:16 -0400
              Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-09 08:58 -0700
                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-09 13:28 -0700
                Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-11 10:41 +0000
              Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-09 20:27 +0200
                Re: double free "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-09 11:31 -0700
                Re: double free Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-09 20:14 +0100
                Re: double free Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-09 15:34 -0400
                  Re: double free jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-07-09 14:02 -0700
                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-09 14:10 -0700
                      Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-09 17:14 -0400
                        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-09 14:24 -0700
                    Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-09 17:31 -0400
                    Re: double free Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-09 20:50 -0400
                Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-09 15:50 -0400
                  Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-10 11:32 +0200
                    Re: double free James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-10 16:01 -0400
                      Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-11 10:07 +0200
                        Re: double free James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-11 08:15 -0400
                          Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-11 06:53 -0700
                            Re: double free Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-07-11 10:35 -0600
                              Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-11 09:48 -0700
                                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 11:02 -0700
                              Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 11:01 -0700
                                Re: double free Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-07-11 13:03 -0600
                            Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 10:57 -0700
                      Re: double free albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-11-27 13:29 +0100
                        Re: double free Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-11-27 14:07 +0100
                  Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-10 13:05 +0100
                    Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-10 05:31 -0700
                      Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-10 13:42 +0100
                      Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-11 01:07 +0100
                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-09 13:39 -0700
                  Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-10 11:53 +0200
                    Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-10 04:11 -0700
                      Re: double free Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-10 08:47 -0400
                    Re: double free James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-10 16:05 -0400
                Re: double free Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-07-09 17:43 -0600
                  Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-09 17:32 -0700
                    Re: double free Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-07-09 20:34 -0600
                Re: double free Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2016-07-10 06:25 +0000
                  Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-11 08:02 -0700
                Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-11 11:01 +0000
                  Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-11 04:07 -0700
                    Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-11 12:17 +0100
                      Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-11 04:59 -0700
                        Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-11 13:07 +0100
                          Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-11 13:38 +0100
                            Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-11 14:11 +0100
                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-11 18:54 +0100
                                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 11:09 -0700
                                Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-11 19:47 +0100
                                Re: double free Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-07-11 19:08 +0000
                                Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-11 21:19 +0100
                                  Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-11 21:34 +0100
                                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 13:48 -0700
                                    Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-11 22:49 +0100
                                      Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-11 23:20 +0100
                                        Re: double free Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-12 10:26 +0530
                                          Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-11 22:34 -0700
                                            Re: double free Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-07-12 06:39 +0000
                                              Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-12 00:41 -0700
                                                Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-12 08:57 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-12 01:16 -0700
                                                    Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-12 09:27 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-12 11:48 +0100
                                            Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-12 08:46 +0100
                                              Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-12 10:42 +0200
                                                Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-12 09:59 +0100
                                                  Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-12 12:46 +0200
                                                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 09:08 -0700
                                                      Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-12 18:51 +0200
                                                        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 11:28 -0700
                                                        Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-12 19:53 +0100
                                                      Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-12 12:19 -0700
                                                        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 14:26 -0700
                                              Re: double free Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-07-12 11:00 -0400
                                                Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-12 16:18 +0100
                                            Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 08:44 -0700
                                              Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-12 09:24 -0700
                                                Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-12 17:34 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-12 09:52 -0700
                                                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 09:40 -0700
                                                  Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-12 18:22 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-13 18:33 +0100
                                                    Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-13 14:00 -0400
                                                    Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 19:16 +0100
                                                    Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-18 09:15 -0700
                                              Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-18 09:04 -0700
                                                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-18 11:10 -0700
                                                  Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-20 08:52 -0700
                                                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-20 09:36 -0700
                                                      Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-21 18:23 -0700
                                          Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-12 08:42 +0100
                                          Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-12 11:24 +0100
                                            Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-12 11:52 +0100
                                              Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-12 13:18 +0100
                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-12 16:42 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-12 17:21 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 09:35 -0700
                                                    Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-12 18:08 +0100
                                                      Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-12 18:14 +0100
                                                      Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-18 10:01 -0700
                                                        Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-18 18:20 +0100
                                                          Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-21 09:26 -0700
                                                            Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-21 18:57 +0100
                                                              Re: double free Udyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com> - 2016-07-22 23:41 +0530
                                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-22 19:47 +0100
                                                                  Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-22 11:58 -0700
                                                                  Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-22 12:03 -0700
                                                                    Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-22 20:26 +0100
                                                                      Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-22 13:12 -0700
                                                                    Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 08:57 +0000
                                                                      Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-23 10:21 +0100
                                                                        Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-23 11:08 +0100
                                                                          Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-23 12:36 +0100
                                                                            Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-23 07:14 -0700
                                                                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-23 16:41 +0100
                                                                            Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 19:17 +0000
                                                                            Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-23 20:42 +0100
                                                                            Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-23 12:51 -0700
                                                                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-23 21:50 +0100
                                                                                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-23 14:17 -0700
                                                                                  Re: double free luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 15:53 -0700
                                                                                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-23 20:55 -0700
                                                                                      Re: double free luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-07-23 22:21 -0700
                                                                                      Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 10:35 +0100
                                                                                        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-24 02:55 -0700
                                                                                          Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-24 04:05 -0700
                                                                                            Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-24 14:03 +0100
                                                                                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 14:24 +0100
                                                                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 15:15 +0100
                                                                                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 16:01 +0100
                                                                                                Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-24 11:36 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 19:52 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-24 12:14 -0700
                                                                                              Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-24 11:13 -0700
                                                                                                Re: double free Martin Shobe <mashobe9@gmail.com> - 2016-07-24 14:52 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-25 09:59 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: double free Martin Shobe <mashobe9@gmail.com> - 2016-07-25 19:32 -0500
                                                                                                Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-25 07:39 -0700
                                                                                  Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-24 10:55 -0700
                                                                            Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-24 08:30 -0700
                                                                        Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-23 11:11 +0100
                                                                      Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-23 12:39 -0700
                                                                        Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 20:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-22 12:51 -0700
                                                                    Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-22 13:18 -0700
                                                              Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-24 08:23 -0700
                                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-24 19:36 +0100
                                                Re: double free albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-12-02 10:21 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-02 10:57 +0000
                                                  Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-02 12:33 +0000
                                                    Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-02 14:07 +0100
                                                  Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-02 10:19 -0500
                                                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-02 08:56 -0800
                                                      Re: double free "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-02 12:31 -0500
                                                        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-02 11:42 -0800
                                              Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-12 08:46 -0700
                                              Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 09:16 -0700
                                                Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-12 09:27 -0700
                                          Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 08:20 -0700
                                          Re: double free James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-12 12:47 -0400
                                    Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-12 22:21 +0000
                                      Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-12 23:27 +0100
                                        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-12 16:28 -0700
                                          Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-13 00:23 -0700
                                            Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 08:43 +0100
                                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 11:21 +0100
                                                Re: double free Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-13 12:56 +0200
                                                Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 12:35 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-13 10:34 -0400
                                              Re: double free Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2016-07-15 05:57 -0700
                                            Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 11:17 +0100
                                              Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-13 04:30 -0700
                                              Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 12:33 +0100
                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 13:41 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 13:57 +0100
                                                    Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-13 06:10 -0700
                                                      Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-13 20:08 +0100
                                                    Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 15:11 +0100
                                                      Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 18:14 +0100
                                                        Re: double free Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-13 19:20 +0200
                                                        Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 18:24 +0100
                                                          Re: double free Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-15 00:51 -0500
                                                            Re: double free luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-07-15 02:18 -0700
                                                          Re: double free "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-15 07:12 -0500
                                                            Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-15 13:14 +0100
                                                          Re: double free Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-18 09:28 +0200
                                                        Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 18:43 +0100
                                                          Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-13 20:15 +0100
                                                            Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 21:14 +0100
                                                              Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-13 13:24 -0700
                                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 21:50 +0100
                                                                Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 19:21 +0000
                                                        Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-13 13:02 -0700
                                                          Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 21:34 +0100
                                                            Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-13 13:51 -0700
                                                              Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-13 22:22 +0100
                                                                Re: double free Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-15 01:08 -0500
                                                                  Re: double free Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-07-15 17:33 +0800
                                                                    Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-15 05:02 -0700
                                                                      Re: double free Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-07-15 21:15 +0800
                                                                      Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-15 14:48 +0100
                                                                        Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-15 08:02 -0700
                                                                          Re: double free Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2016-07-18 01:42 -0700
                                                                            Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-18 03:07 -0700
                                                            Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-13 22:01 +0100
                                                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-13 22:14 +0100
                                                              Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-13 14:31 -0700
                                                                Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-13 23:03 +0100
                                                                  Re: double free "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-07-13 17:53 -0500
                                                                    Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-13 16:18 -0700
                                                                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-13 16:19 -0700
                                                                  Re: double free Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-13 22:44 -0400
                                                                  Re: double free Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-14 09:44 +0200
                                                              Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-13 17:07 -0700
                                                                Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-14 07:13 -0700
                                                              Re: double free Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-15 01:18 -0500
                                                    Re: double free Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-07-13 10:46 -0400
                                                  Re: double free Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-15 00:59 -0500
                                                    Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-14 23:47 -0700
                                                    Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-15 11:22 +0100
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                                                          Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-15 08:39 -0700
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                                                              Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-15 21:20 +0100
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                                                                    Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-16 01:26 +0100
                                                                      Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-15 18:22 -0700
                                                                        Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-15 18:48 -0700
                                                                      Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-15 18:40 -0700
                                                            Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-15 10:09 -0700
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                                                                      Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-15 13:04 -0700
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                                                                      Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-19 10:00 -0700
                                              Re: double free Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-07-13 12:46 +0100
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                                                  Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-14 12:34 -0700
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                                                      Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-14 13:15 -0700
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                                          Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-18 09:46 -0700
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                                                Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 06:00 -0700
                                                  Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-19 09:23 -0700
                                                    Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 09:38 -0700
                                                      Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-19 17:51 +0100
                                                        Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-19 18:22 +0100
                                                        Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 09:02 +0000
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                                                      Re: double free Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2016-07-21 10:02 -0700
                                                        Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-21 10:25 -0700
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                                                    Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 08:59 +0000
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                                                                sizeof (was Re: double free) Ken Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2016-07-19 14:44 -0400
                                                                  Re: sizeof (was Re: double free) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-19 12:31 -0700
                                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-19 22:46 +0100
                                                                  Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-19 15:19 -0700
                                                                  Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-20 00:21 +0100
                                                                    Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-23 19:21 +0000
                                                              Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-19 12:08 -0700
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                                              Re: double free Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-07-21 18:10 -0700
                                                Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-22 11:23 +0100
                                                  Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-22 03:40 -0700
                                                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-22 10:33 -0700
                                                      Re: double free Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-07-22 12:47 -0700
                                Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-12 22:18 +0000
                            Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 10:53 -0700
                              Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-11 21:20 +0100
                                Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 13:56 -0700
                                  Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-11 22:39 +0100
                                    Re: double free David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-07-12 10:57 +0200
                                Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-11 21:58 +0100
                    Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-11 13:23 +0100
                    Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-11 13:00 +0000
                    Re: double free Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-07-11 10:44 -0700
                      Re: double free Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 19:10 +0100
                        Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-11 20:22 +0100
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                  Re: double free James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-11 09:09 -0400
                    Re: double free Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-07-11 14:16 +0100
                    Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-15 13:51 +0000
                      Re: double free James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-15 12:04 -0400
                  Re: double free Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2016-07-11 17:51 +0200
              Re: double free raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-07-11 10:19 +0000
    Re: double free Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-07-05 08:57 -0600
    Re: double free James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-07-05 11:13 -0400
      Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-05 09:05 -0700
        Re: double free G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 16:38 -0700
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      Re: double free Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-05 21:27 -0700
        Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-06 02:53 -0700
          Re: double free Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2016-07-06 06:09 -0700
            Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-07-06 07:53 -0700
      Re: double free "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-07-06 01:25 -0700
      Re: double free BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-07-06 11:12 +0100
    Re: double free Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-11-27 09:52 -0800
      Re: double free supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-27 10:05 -0800

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#90525

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-18 18:20 +0100
Message-ID<nmj35n$usb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90521
On 18/07/2016 18:01, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> Are you suggesting that every C programmer ought to know the
>> precedence levels of all ten binary operators?
>
> I would.  And do.  And happy to do it.  If you can't take
> the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

So you don't care that other people may have trouble reading or 
maintaining your code?

> (P.S.  There are a lot more than ten.)

I meant all ten precedence levels (of the binary operators).

According to page 53 of K&R 2. Which also lists 18 binary operators in all.

Presumably if the C designers had chosen to give each binary op its own 
precedence level, you wouldn't have thought that that was over the top; 
you would just have memorised all 18 instead?!

(That table uses 'operator' to include constructs which can only broadly 
be called operators. But the set of binary ones are generally agreed to 
be actual operators.)

-- 
Bartc

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#90724

FromTim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2016-07-21 09:26 -0700
Message-ID<kfnzipbt0st.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu>
In reply to#90525
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 18/07/2016 18:01, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>
>>> Are you suggesting that every C programmer ought to know the
>>> precedence levels of all ten binary operators?
>>
>> I would.  And do.  And happy to do it.  If you can't take
>> the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
>
> So you don't care that other people may have trouble reading or
> maintaining your code?

Broadly speaking there are two kinds of questions asked in
usenet newgroups:  those looking for an answer, and those
looking for an argument.  This question is a good example
of the second kind.

>> (P.S.  There are a lot more than ten.)
>
> I meant all ten precedence levels (of the binary operators).

I recommend to those who program (or who would program) in C
that they learn the precedence of all the different forms of
expression, both those for binary operators and those for
other-than-binary operators.

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#90733

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-21 18:57 +0100
Message-ID<nmr2ff$401$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90724
On 21/07/2016 17:26, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>
>> On 18/07/2016 18:01, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Are you suggesting that every C programmer ought to know the
>>>> precedence levels of all ten binary operators?
>>>
>>> I would.  And do.  And happy to do it.  If you can't take
>>> the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
>>
>> So you don't care that other people may have trouble reading or
>> maintaining your code?
>
> Broadly speaking there are two kinds of questions asked in
> usenet newgroups:  those looking for an answer, and those
> looking for an argument.  This question is a good example
> of the second kind.

So you don't care.

>>> (P.S.  There are a lot more than ten.)
>>
>> I meant all ten precedence levels (of the binary operators).
>
> I recommend to those who program (or who would program) in C
> that they learn the precedence of all the different forms of
> expression, both those for binary operators and those for
> other-than-binary operators.

That's Tim's recommendation. Mine would be not to bother.

There are far too many precedence levels, some appear arbitrary, and 
with one or two, even the designers have admitted they made a mistake.

Just stick to the basic ones that everyone knows, and use parentheses 
for the rest. Then the code, especially algorithms, will be understood 
by more people, and the code will be more portable.

-- 
bartc

-- 
Bartc

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#90800

FromUdyant Wig <udyant.wig@gmail.com>
Date2016-07-22 23:41 +0530
Message-ID<nmtnkm$ere$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90733
On 07/21/2016 11:27 PM, BartC wrote:
> There are far too many precedence levels, some appear arbitrary, and
> with one or two, even the designers have admitted they made a mistake.
> 
> Just stick to the basic ones that everyone knows, and use parentheses
> for the rest. Then the code, especially algorithms, will be understood
> by more people, and the code will be more portable.

  I can accept the argument for understanding, but could you explain how
  the parentheses would help portability?
  
-- 
Udyant Wig

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#90805

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-22 19:47 +0100
Message-ID<nmtpp3$nga$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90800
On 22/07/2016 19:11, Udyant Wig wrote:
> On 07/21/2016 11:27 PM, BartC wrote:
>> There are far too many precedence levels, some appear arbitrary, and
>> with one or two, even the designers have admitted they made a mistake.
>>
>> Just stick to the basic ones that everyone knows, and use parentheses
>> for the rest. Then the code, especially algorithms, will be understood
>> by more people, and the code will be more portable.
>
>   I can accept the argument for understanding, but could you explain how
>   the parentheses would help portability?

If you lift a fragment of code, or transcribe it to a different 
language, then you will have an easier time if it's like this:

   a <<  (b + c)

than like this:

   a << b + c     // which means the same as above in C

because outside of C, '<<' may have a different precedence.

It intuitively looks like the expression ought to be (a<<b)+c, and might 
actually be parsed like that in some languages (<< does the same job as 
multiply so it would sense to have the same precedence).

Even in C, it will remove that possible misunderstanding.

-- 
Bartc

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#90806

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2016-07-22 11:58 -0700
Message-ID<16b074c1-4f05-443f-9b9e-54d28910fb9d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#90805
On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 1:48:12 PM UTC-5, Bart wrote:
> On 22/07/2016 19:11, Udyant Wig wrote:
> >   I can accept the argument for understanding, but could you explain how
> >   the parentheses would help portability?
> 
> Even in C, it will remove that possible misunderstanding.

While the Standard requires that warnings for things that are not
constraint violations must not prevent a compliant implementation
from executing any program that it would otherwise be required to
run in defined fashion, many systems are configured to break the
build on warnings (the Standard is not intended to prevent compilers
from offering non-compliant modes as options).

Unless one hyper-pedantically insists that compilers configured in
that way aren't really "C compilers", adding parentheses will increase
the fraction of C compilers that will run such code without modification.

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#90807

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2016-07-22 12:03 -0700
Message-ID<ln8twtijg6.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#90805
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 22/07/2016 19:11, Udyant Wig wrote:
>> On 07/21/2016 11:27 PM, BartC wrote:
>>> There are far too many precedence levels, some appear arbitrary, and
>>> with one or two, even the designers have admitted they made a mistake.
>>>
>>> Just stick to the basic ones that everyone knows, and use parentheses
>>> for the rest. Then the code, especially algorithms, will be understood
>>> by more people, and the code will be more portable.
>>
>>   I can accept the argument for understanding, but could you explain how
>>   the parentheses would help portability?
>
> If you lift a fragment of code, or transcribe it to a different 
> language, then you will have an easier time if it's like this:
>
>    a <<  (b + c)
>
> than like this:
>
>    a << b + c     // which means the same as above in C
>
> because outside of C, '<<' may have a different precedence.

I would use the parentheses there, because I agree with you that the
expression is clearer with them than without them.  But not because
I'd be concerned about someone copying the code to a program written
in another language.

If you blindly copy C code to another language without checking that it
still means the same thing, that's not the fault of the author of the C
code.

> It intuitively looks like the expression ought to be (a<<b)+c, and might 
> actually be parsed like that in some languages (<< does the same job as 
> multiply so it would sense to have the same precedence).
>
> Even in C, it will remove that possible misunderstanding.

Do you know of a language that has a "<<" operator similar to C's, in
which the relative precedence of "<<" and "+" differs from C's?

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#90811

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-22 20:26 +0100
Message-ID<nmts23$vsl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90807
On 22/07/2016 20:03, Keith Thompson wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

>> Even in C, it will remove that possible misunderstanding.
>
> Do you know of a language that has a "<<" operator similar to C's, in
> which the relative precedence of "<<" and "+" differs from C's?

I had a look here. It all looks a huge mess:

https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Operator_precedence

However, Pascal has one of the simplest set of precedences. There, 
shifts are the same level as all multiply and divide operators.

In Algol 68, shifts are one level higher than multiply/divide, but that 
still means that a<<b+c means (a<<b)+c. Not that many will be using 
Algol 68 ...

Many seem to have blindly followed the C model, while others appear to 
have no shift operators listed.

(My own languages of course have always had <<,>> at same precedence as 
multiply and divide.)

-- 
Bartc

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#90815

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2016-07-22 13:12 -0700
Message-ID<lnvazxh1pb.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#90811
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 22/07/2016 20:03, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>> Even in C, it will remove that possible misunderstanding.
>>
>> Do you know of a language that has a "<<" operator similar to C's, in
>> which the relative precedence of "<<" and "+" differs from C's?
>
> I had a look here. It all looks a huge mess:
>
> https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Operator_precedence
>
> However, Pascal has one of the simplest set of precedences. There,
> shifts are the same level as all multiply and divide operators.

Interesting.  (When I used Pascal, it didn't have shift operators.)

> In Algol 68, shifts are one level higher than multiply/divide, but
> that still means that a<<b+c means (a<<b)+c. Not that many will be
> using Algol 68 ...
>
> Many seem to have blindly followed the C model, while others appear to
> have no shift operators listed.

That's about what I expected.  I'm mildly surprised that some languages
use the same operators with different precedence, but only mildly.

> (My own languages of course have always had <<,>> at same precedence
> as multiply and divide.)

I do think that giving the shift operators the same or similar
precedence as multiplication and division makes more sense than the way
C does it, though I don't feel strongly about it and I could easily
change my mind.  One could make the counterargument that being
consistent with C is more important.  I take no position one way or the
other.

Still, if I were taking an expression from a C program and dropping it
into a program in another language, I'd check it very carefully unless I
was quite sure that the other language has the same semantics and
precedence rules.  But the need to do that kind of thing is so rare that
it doesn't influence how I write C.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#90831

Fromraltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)
Date2016-07-23 08:57 +0000
Message-ID<5793313b.2453031@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#90807
Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:

> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> > It intuitively looks like the expression ought to be (a<<b)+c, and might 
> > actually be parsed like that in some languages (<< does the same job as 
> > multiply so it would sense to have the same precedence).
> >
> > Even in C, it will remove that possible misunderstanding.
> 
> Do you know of a language that has a "<<" operator similar to C's, in
> which the relative precedence of "<<" and "+" differs from C's?

No, but I know of at least one in which << has a different meaning from
C's.

It is _never_ wise to write code without thinking, so once again Bart is
pretending problems with C that don't exist.

Richard

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#90835

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-23 10:21 +0100
Message-ID<nmvcv1$511$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90831
On 23/07/2016 09:57, Richard Bos wrote:
> Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>
>>> It intuitively looks like the expression ought to be (a<<b)+c, and might
>>> actually be parsed like that in some languages (<< does the same job as
>>> multiply so it would sense to have the same precedence).
>>>
>>> Even in C, it will remove that possible misunderstanding.
>>
>> Do you know of a language that has a "<<" operator similar to C's, in
>> which the relative precedence of "<<" and "+" differs from C's?
>
> No, but I know of at least one in which << has a different meaning from
> C's.
>
> It is _never_ wise to write code without thinking, so once again Bart is
> pretending problems with C that don't exist.

Some people are deluded. There /are/ more precedences than would be 
reasonable. There /is/ no earthly why <= and == need to have different 
precedences. And, while there might be a reason why &, ^ and | need to 
be all different (which I can't think of), there /isn't/ a good one why 
they all have to be lower than == and <=. (Which means that if (a&b != 
0x800) doesn't do what you think.)

We didn't want these poor decisions to leach into other languages, but 
that seems to have happened and thus perpetuate themselves. And one 
reason may well be to ensure that code translated from one to another 
that doesn't use parentheses will still work; another that someone 
needing to write in both languages doesn't have to remember different 
sets of precedences.

So part of my aim was to isolate the idiosyncrasies of C as well as 
making code more obvious to more people.

Naturally, the predictable reaction is that I'm an idiot who can't be 
bothered to learn the language!


-- 

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#90842

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2016-07-23 11:08 +0100
Message-ID<87fur0acpk.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#90835
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
<snip>
> Some people are deluded. There /are/ more precedences than would be
> reasonable. There /is/ no earthly why <= and == need to have different
> precedences. And, while there might be a reason why &, ^ and | need to
> be all different (which I can't think of), there /isn't/ a good one
> why they all have to be lower than == and <=. (Which means that if
> (a&b != 0x800) doesn't do what you think.)

I'm curious.  If a significant number of people here (maybe all) posted
their agreement to these complaints, would you stop moaning about C?  In
other words, what's the point of all these posts?  Do you want to
persuade people of the error of C's ways (and if so to what purpose)?
Or maybe want to show how much better your choices would have been?
Maybe you think that some of the people who will design the Next Big
Thing in programming languages read c.l.c and will benefit from your
steering them away these rocks?  Or do you just enjoy a bit of dust up?
It just seems like a very odd pastime.

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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#90845

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-23 12:36 +0100
Message-ID<nmvkrk$rtl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90842
On 23/07/2016 11:08, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> <snip>
>> Some people are deluded. There /are/ more precedences than would be
>> reasonable. There /is/ no earthly why <= and == need to have different
>> precedences. And, while there might be a reason why &, ^ and | need to
>> be all different (which I can't think of), there /isn't/ a good one
>> why they all have to be lower than == and <=. (Which means that if
>> (a&b != 0x800) doesn't do what you think.)
>
> I'm curious.  If a significant number of people here (maybe all) posted
> their agreement to these complaints, would you stop moaning about C?  In
> other words, what's the point of all these posts?  Do you want to
> persuade people of the error of C's ways (and if so to what purpose)?
> Or maybe want to show how much better your choices would have been?

Well Tim Rentsch also has strong and sometimes unconventional views 
(despite saying that mine don't count as they are just my opinions!).

It was him who recommended that people learn *all* the precedences 
implying that parentheses should not be used for clarity. That sounded 
too much like the school of thought that either programmers should be 
perfect, or they should give it up.

I was putting the opposite view in this sub-thread.

>  Or do you just enjoy a bit of dust up?

That too. Coming here is a diversion. (And political forums are becoming 
boring again in the UK after the last few weeks.)

And admit that /you/ like sparring with Malcolm for example...

-- 
Bartc

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#90846

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2016-07-23 07:14 -0700
Message-ID<67848c8b-c327-47aa-924a-e8de0c6d28ce@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#90845
On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 12:36:28 PM UTC+1, Bart wrote:
>
> Well Tim Rentsch also has strong and sometimes unconventional views 
> (despite saying that mine don't count as they are just my opinions!).
> 
> It was him who recommended that people learn *all* the precedences 
> implying that parentheses should not be used for clarity. That sounded 
> too much like the school of thought that either programmers should be 
> perfect, or they should give it up.
> 
That's clear nonsense

In some circumstances you can get away with not parenthising factors,
but compilers will warn about unparenthesised boolean expressions
containing mixtures of OR and AND. AND is intersection which is
related to multiplication, whilst OR is union and related to 
addition, so they are given the same precedence rules. But not
enough people are familiar with them for compiler writers to be
happy, and they're probably right.

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#90847

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-23 16:41 +0100
Message-ID<nn037c$bcq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90846
On 23/07/2016 15:14, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 12:36:28 PM UTC+1, Bart wrote:
>>
>> Well Tim Rentsch also has strong and sometimes unconventional views
>> (despite saying that mine don't count as they are just my opinions!).
>>
>> It was him who recommended that people learn *all* the precedences
>> implying that parentheses should not be used for clarity. That sounded
>> too much like the school of thought that either programmers should be
>> perfect, or they should give it up.
>>
> That's clear nonsense
>
> In some circumstances you can get away with not parenthising factors,
> but compilers will warn about unparenthesised boolean expressions
> containing mixtures of OR and AND. AND is intersection which is
> related to multiplication, whilst OR is union and related to
> addition, so they are given the same precedence rules. But not
> enough people are familiar with them for compiler writers to be
> happy, and they're probably right.

AND and OR (ie. logical ops denoted by && and || in C) are usually a 
long way from multiply and divide.

I see a 3-tier system:

* Ordinary expressions consisting of terms joined with *, /, +
   and - ops: a+b*c

* Relative ops (==,!=,<,<=,=>,>) used between ordinary expressions:
   a+b*c == d+e

* Then logical ops AND and OR used to combine the results of relative
   ops: a+b*c == d+e AND f<g OR h==1

The first tier needs to be given higher precedence (just two levels 
needed), then the second tier (one level), followed by the third (two 
levels as AND is done first perhaps because of the connection with 
multiply as you suggest).

Not only are there only 5 levels in total, but they are structured into 
2, 1 and 2 making it even easier. Any odd operator just shares one of 
those five levels, mostly like one of the first two, as there is no 
advantage at all in their having their own level.

(AND and OR tend also to use short-circuit evaluation to further set 
them apart.)

-- 
Bartc

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#90854

Fromraltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)
Date2016-07-23 19:17 +0000
Message-ID<5793c28b.1316015@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#90845
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 23/07/2016 11:08, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

> > I'm curious.  If a significant number of people here (maybe all) posted
> > their agreement to these complaints, would you stop moaning about C?  In
> > other words, what's the point of all these posts?  Do you want to
> > persuade people of the error of C's ways (and if so to what purpose)?
> > Or maybe want to show how much better your choices would have been?
> 
> Well Tim Rentsch also has strong and sometimes unconventional views 
> (despite saying that mine don't count as they are just my opinions!).

Yes, he does. But while I by no means always agree with him, he does
provide his reasons beyond "I don't understand this, therefore C is
wrong".

Richard

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#90863

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2016-07-23 20:42 +0100
Message-ID<87zip887kx.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#90845
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 23/07/2016 11:08, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> <snip>
>>> Some people are deluded. There /are/ more precedences than would be
>>> reasonable. There /is/ no earthly why <= and == need to have different
>>> precedences. And, while there might be a reason why &, ^ and | need to
>>> be all different (which I can't think of), there /isn't/ a good one
>>> why they all have to be lower than == and <=. (Which means that if
>>> (a&b != 0x800) doesn't do what you think.)
>>
>> I'm curious.  If a significant number of people here (maybe all) posted
>> their agreement to these complaints, would you stop moaning about C?  In
>> other words, what's the point of all these posts?  Do you want to
>> persuade people of the error of C's ways (and if so to what purpose)?
>> Or maybe want to show how much better your choices would have been?
>
> Well Tim Rentsch also has strong and sometimes unconventional views
> (despite saying that mine don't count as they are just my opinions!).
>
> It was him who recommended that people learn *all* the precedences
> implying that parentheses should not be used for clarity. That sounded
> too much like the school of thought that either programmers should be
> perfect, or they should give it up.
>
> I was putting the opposite view in this sub-thread.

I'm going to leave this uncut without comment.  Normally I don't do that
but I think it would look odd to remove it.  I don't want to get drawn
further into the pros and cons of precedence levels.

>>  Or do you just enjoy a bit of dust up?
>
> That too. Coming here is a diversion. (And political forums are
> becoming boring again in the UK after the last few weeks.)

That's what I thought.  I'll try to keep that in mind.

> And admit that /you/ like sparring with Malcolm for example...

No, I don't think so.  I like to make my opinion known when I think
someone is wrong, but the best possible outcome for me is silence from
that moment on.  My heart sinks if I see a reply to a post of mine and I
hope it's one I can ignore (and not another error being pointed out, of
course).  Second best: one where I can sign off with a "I think we've
made our positions clears" post.  In my ideal Usenet, exchanges would
continue only while people where answering questions to further explain
their points of view.  Sometimes that would result in a change of mind
("ah, I see what you mean now -- yes I agree") but when that does not
happen the topic should be dropped.

I could certainly increase the number of times I sit on my hands.  Some
people seem to be able to post followups that look to me like they need
a reply more than the original, and I should take that to be a red-flag
more often than I do.

-- 
Ben.

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#90867

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2016-07-23 12:51 -0700
Message-ID<lntwfgf7zx.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#90845
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 23/07/2016 11:08, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> <snip>
>>> Some people are deluded. There /are/ more precedences than would be
>>> reasonable. There /is/ no earthly why <= and == need to have different
>>> precedences. And, while there might be a reason why &, ^ and | need to
>>> be all different (which I can't think of), there /isn't/ a good one
>>> why they all have to be lower than == and <=. (Which means that if
>>> (a&b != 0x800) doesn't do what you think.)

Who has said that C *doesn't* have more precedences than would
be reasonable?

It is what it is.  Some of the precedences are less than ideal;
Dennis Ritchie himself has expressed regret over some of them.
Having fewer and/or levels in a new language would be perfectly
reasonable.

But there is no way to change (or "fix" if you prefer) C's precedence
levels without breaking existing code.

You are arguing against a strawman.  I recognize C's flaws (there
are *plenty* of things I would have done differently), but it's
more constructive to learn how C actually works.

>> I'm curious.  If a significant number of people here (maybe all) posted
>> their agreement to these complaints, would you stop moaning about C?  In
>> other words, what's the point of all these posts?  Do you want to
>> persuade people of the error of C's ways (and if so to what purpose)?
>> Or maybe want to show how much better your choices would have been?
>
> Well Tim Rentsch also has strong and sometimes unconventional views 
> (despite saying that mine don't count as they are just my opinions!).
>
> It was him who recommended that people learn *all* the precedences 
> implying that parentheses should not be used for clarity. That sounded 
> too much like the school of thought that either programmers should be 
> perfect, or they should give it up.

I remember Tim saying that C programmers should learn all the
operator precedences.  I agree with him in principle, but I confess I
don't remember them all myself, but I usually have a copy of N1570
open and I can check the table of contents of section 6.5 quickly
enough when I need to.

I do not recall Tim saying that this implies one should not use
parentheses for clarity.  Do you?

It is entirely consistent to know all the precedence levels *and* use
extra parentheses for clarity in some cases.

[...]

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#90874

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2016-07-23 21:50 +0100
Message-ID<nn0la6$8e5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#90867
On 23/07/2016 20:51, Keith Thompson wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> But there is no way to change (or "fix" if you prefer) C's precedence
> levels without breaking existing code.

My suggestion was to make use of the funny ones by ignoring the given 
precedences and forcing the meaning by using parentheses (or breaking up 
into multiple expressions).

No fix to C needed and everyone will see exactly how something is evaluated.

> You are arguing against a strawman.  I recognize C's flaws (there
> are *plenty* of things I would have done differently), but it's
> more constructive to learn how C actually works.

(As far as I was concerned, my own languages came first (from c. 1981 
after encountering the classic ones - but not C - at college and from 
brief periods of work).

Eventually I was delighted to be planning to move on to the famous C 
(part-forced by having to code for Win16) and let someone else have the 
headache of maintaining compilers. But after a few attempts, I realised 
I couldn't take to it; mine were better!

(For actual coding and productivity. C was better in other regards, in 
that C compilers were more refined, they were starting to produce better 
code (this in mid-90s), there were myriad libraries with interfaces 
defined in C and so on.)

I tried again nearly 20 years later and am now up to speed with C for 
the uses I put it to. However it is still fascinating how such a 
language, which looks like it was thrown together for a student project, 
has become so important and so ubiquitous. I'm jealous.. )

> I do not recall Tim saying that this implies one should not use
> parentheses for clarity.  Do you?

He said (referring to knowing all binary op precedence levels):

"I would.  And do.  And happy to do it.  If you can't take
the heat, stay out of the kitchen."

So he knows exactly what every expression means, and suggests that only 
those who also know all the levels should be coding. So why would anyone 
need extra parentheses? Either something is already clear, or you 
shouldn't be programming.

-- 
Bartc

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#90880

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2016-07-23 14:17 -0700
Message-ID<lna8h8f414.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#90874
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
> On 23/07/2016 20:51, Keith Thompson wrote:
[...]
>> I do not recall Tim saying that this implies one should not use
>> parentheses for clarity.  Do you?
>
> He said (referring to knowing all binary op precedence levels):
>
> "I would.  And do.  And happy to do it.  If you can't take
> the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
>
> So he knows exactly what every expression means, and suggests that only 
> those who also know all the levels should be coding. So why would anyone 
> need extra parentheses? Either something is already clear, or you 
> shouldn't be programming.

Was that intended to answer my question?  I believe you are inferring
things he didn't say.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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