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Where do you want to go for eternity?

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  Where do you want to go for eternity? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 13:35 -0700
    Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-24 18:56 -0700
      Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-24 19:40 -0700
        Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-05-24 20:54 -0700
          Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 05:32 -0700
            Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-05-25 06:25 -0700
              Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 07:02 -0700
                Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-05-25 07:51 -0700
                  Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:19 -0700
                    Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 08:36 -0700
                    Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-05-25 09:00 -0700
                      Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-05-25 09:21 -0700
              Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-05-25 12:10 -0700
      Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-05-25 17:06 +1200
      Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "martin.ambuhl" <mambuhl@earthlink.net> - 2016-05-26 18:35 -0400
    Re: Where do you want to go for eternity? "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.no> - 2016-05-29 00:50 -0700

#88100 — Where do you want to go for eternity?

I saw this video today on the ComputerHistory channel on YouTube.  The man
cited, David Cutler, has been a pioneer in several low-level aspects of
computer development while at Microsoft, and before:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN0H4Lb9Lfs

I posted a comment immediately after watching the video.  However, the more
I thought about it the more I realized there's something larger that needs
to take place here.

I want to begin to educate our technology sector away from that which is
their focus today (money), to instead begin thinking of that which should
be their focus (God, and all of God's people world-wide).

I have expanded my comment here, and I will continue to polish and edit
it as I give it more thought:

-----

    May.24.2016

    It's hard for me to appreciate any success for Microsoft, or for any of
    the people at Microsoft.  They have money-driven goals and make choices
    based on money-ends, rather than right-ends -- which are (to be clear)
    people-ends.

    As a result of Windows 3.1 sales, for example, OS/2 (an all ways a
    superior operating system) was abandoned by Microsoft after years of
    development so they could pursue Windows NT (because they could make
    more money selling Windows than pursuing the better product).

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DAojx2Hgec&t=38m50s

    Money drove Microsoft's decision, and later drove them to also move in
    anti-competitive ways for which they were found guilty in courts of law
    around the world, ultimately ordered to pay record fines.  And even upon
    receiving the multiple legal findings, they still professed innocence
    and did not believe they were doing anything wrong, or had done anything
    wrong.

    No apologies.  No voluntary changes.

    -----
    People will say Microsoft's behavior was "just business," and they're
    right.  It was just business.  But business goals are focused predomin-
    ately around money factors, and these goals ultimately harm real and
    creative people world-wide.  Business goals seek to lock in solutions
    which isolate and segregate us into the channels required by their
    goals, so that we do not have free room to move, but are able to move
    within a confined arena only.  While we might receive products which
    allow us to move, it's akin to being in a type of prison where we can
    harvest trees, build homes, raise animals and families to our heart's
    content, but we're still in the prison.  If we want to move to another
    place it's not possible because we're locked in.

    This inevitably results in us receiving wholly inferior products because
    there is no equal footing given to competition, such that even in 2016
    we still don't have the capabilities OS/2 had back in the 1990s in
    released products, nor do we have many of the alternative products that
    we could've had were Microsoft's anti-competitive practices not in play,
    such that money was not the driving goal (office suites, business
    software, browsers, and other models, for example).

    Microsoft has harmed people with their releases.  And while the people
    who have contributed to Microsoft's "success" are no doubt talented
    people, their goals and loyalties have been to Microsoft and its money
    ends, rather than "in serving people" ends, and that needs to change.

    And Microsoft is not alone in this.  Business in this world today is
    geared toward maximizing profit.  You rarely hear, for example, of a
    company willing to sacrifice half of its net increase in sales to hire
    more people, or give them better health care, or increase their family
    time, etc.  You typically hear it going the other way because money is
    the goal, not people.

    And to be clear:  having money-based goals makes all of the effort
    involved just flatly wrong because those goals ultimately harm people.
    People's needs and "rightness needs" are always sacrificed in cases
    where an additional dollar can be gained by sacrificing them, and
    that needs to change.

    -----
    Each of us is part of a purpose here on this planet.  We are part of a
    system that was created by God with right ends (honoring Him, and loving
    one another in the world He gave us).  That purpose has been usurped by
    sin, and that sin at work in men.  It has given us this world we live in
    where people everywhere are rising up and hating and fighting other
    people.  People who, had they been born in a different place, could've
    grown up in your community, been raised with your children, gone to
    school and social functions with your family, so that you would've been
    neighbors, rather than enemies.

    Everything that's wrong with this world stems from the same single
    source:  sin, and all that accompanies it.

    Sin is the problem.
    Jesus Christ is the cure ... because He literally takes sin away.

    -----
    The truth is we were created to honor God with our lives.  We were made
    in His very image and likeness, and He made us different than all of the
    rest of creation.  Even apart from the angels, for not one of them will
    be forgiven for their sin against God, but all of us have the opportunity
    to be forgiven if we will accept Jesus Christ, allowing Him to become
    the Lord of our life, the One who guides us and leads us.  He will take
    away our sin and restore us to that which mankind had before the fall:
    eternal life, a spirit that's alive, and real hope and a future.

    -----
    The goals of this world's business models, philosophy models, and
    economic models at large, all need to change.  And that change needs
    to be center-focused around each of us developing a close, personal
    relationship with Jesus Christ, and then walking under His guidance.

    Jesus advocates loving one another.  It's actually a new command He
    gave us (John 13:34). 

    Jesus advocates peace, and says that peacemakers will be called the
    children of God.

    Jesus advocates sharing your excess with the one who does not have.

    Jesus advocates seeking after righteousness as food and water.

    You can read about all of these yourself:

         http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/5.htm
         http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/6.htm
         http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/7.htm

    And you can see the love of God manifest in the gospel of John (put
    yourself in the position of John, recognizing that as He loved John,
    so He also loves you):

         http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/1.htm
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hexhw3wWmE

    -----
    This world teaches us incorrectly about who Jesus Christ is, what He
    expects from us, and how we must come to Him.  Jesus is looking for
    those who are broken, flawed, who know they are sinners and yet don't
    want to be.  He knows you can't do it on your own, and He promises
    those who seek Him that you don't have to do it on your own, but to
    simply come to Him as you are (broken, flawed, in sin), and ask Him
    to forgive you, and to help you, and He will.

    He receives all who come to Him, and will never turn any who come to
    Him away.  No matter your past.  No matter you sin.  No matter those
    worst things you've ever done.  Jesus knows all about it, and He loves
    you anyway and will save you despite those things:

         http://www.libsf.org/misc/love.html

    -----
    Our goals on this planet are to better one another's lives, beginning
    in all things with a trust and reliance upon God.  And whether we are
    willing to admit it to ourselves or not, He has been with us every day
    of our lives here upon this Earth.  We have ignored Him, but He has
    remained.  We have sinned against Him, but He has been there watching
    over us.  We have turned our back on Him and blasphemed everything
    about Him and His due Glory, and yet He continues to love us, just as
    a parent would love their child even if that child had done truly
    heinous things.

    The only solution to this world's ills is for each of us to embrace
    that close and personal relationship with Jesus Christ, to bring Him
    into our hearts making Him the centerpiece of our lives, so that He
    is then able to operate through us into this world.  We become His
    hands and feet.  We become His voice in this world.  We let those
    around us see the salvation He's given us at work in us, as we look
    up to Him and teach others those things He first taught us.

    -----
    We must each refocus the goals of our industry to move with a purpose
    focused upon that larger realization and goal, that which brings both
    God and improving other people's lives always into the forefront of our
    consideration, knowing that He will bring us to success in achieving
    all of the goals we have, or to replace our goals with right goals to
    which He will then bring us to success within.

    Right service in this world:

        God first*
        People second*

        * And because we put God first, and God Himself puts us ahead
          of nearly all other considerations, then by putting God first
          we automatically also put people first.

    -----
    Our talents and abilities are gifts given to us by God.  As are the
    opportunities we've had, and the positions we're now in.

    It is time to stand up for what's right in this world, to seek that
    close personal relationship with Jesus Christ, with the One who can
    focus your life upon God, and upon people simultaneously, so that we
    are not alone in this world, we are not seeking our own goals in this
    world, but we are consistently looking out for the other guy, and even
    for all the other guys, so that our lives are contributory to each
    other in grand and focused ways as by the sum total of our plans, our
    interests, our wants, wishes, needs even.

    We need to start considering the long-term effects of the things we do,
    remembering God first, and letting Him be the consistent cue which is
    the lead role in our lives here in this world, but also in the world to
    come.

    -----
    Jesus Christ is my King.  And His ways are right and true.  I challenge
    each of you to pick up a Bible for yourself, and read it for yourself,
    and come to see for yourself that which I am talking about.  If you
    have your eyes set on truth and rightness, you will find treasure there
    beyond your wildest dreams.

    I love you.  But Jesus loves you more.  Come to Him and receive His
    free gift of salvation, and learn of Him.  Ask Him to guide you in
    your life so that you'll never go astray again.  He will do this,
    both because of who He is, and because of who you are to Him.

-----

Each of us is part of the community God has place us in.  He has given us
this planet, everything on it, our lives, our selves, and He's given us
the inspiration we've had for ideas, the knowledge we possess has come
from the opportunities He's given us, and so much more.

He occupies the place of God in our lives, whether we acknowledge Him or
not.  And I encourage each of you to look deeply at everything around you
and see His hand at work.

He stands at the door of your soul and He knocks.  He invites you to come
in and sup with Him, and He with you.  He knocks because He desires for
you to be part of His life (eternal life), and to be someone who is His
here in this grand universe He's created.  He has plans for you that would
bring you to tears because of their beauty were you to know the full extent
of them.

Don't let the enemy bind you up with the distractions from this world.
Step up and see for yourself who God is.  You'll find He's nothing like
this world has taught, and everything that true-seeking, right-seeking
part of you has ever longed for ... and more.

Jesus Christ.  His name literally means, "God who saves [from judgment]."

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#88138

In article <70d8967e-3815-4ee2-bc92-b912d15ccc7e@googlegroups.com>,
 "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to begin to educate our technology sector away from that which is
> their focus today (money), to instead begin thinking of that which should
> be their focus (God, and all of God's people world-wide).

(1) Why do you worry about tomorrow and an eternity of tomorrows? Jesus 
summarised the law as love your god and love your fellow humans. Nothing there 
about when. If you love your god, trust him to provide your tomorrows and for 
your tomorrows whatever you need.

(2) Over and over the new testament presents the Way as a choice each person 
gets to make for themselves. (The old testament is almost always about a choice 
given to a person.) Testify to people who have never heard about the gospels as 
you want, but once they know about it, step back and let them make their own 
choice. Browbeating will be counterproductive as well as presumes your audience 
is too feeble to decide for themselves. Learn to trust in the power beyond you.

-- 
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
If you assume the final scene is a dying delusion as Tom Cruise drowns below
the Louvre, then Edge of Tomorrow has a happy ending. Kill Tom repeat..

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#88141

On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 9:56:24 PM UTC-4, Siri Cruise wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > I want to begin to educate our technology sector away from that which
> > is their focus today (money), to instead begin thinking of that which
> > should be their focus (God, and all of God's people world-wide).
> 
> (1) Why do you worry about tomorrow and an eternity of tomorrows? Jesus
> summarised the law as love your god and love your fellow humans. Nothing
> there about when. If you love your god, trust him to provide your
? tomorrows and for your tomorrows whatever you need.

He commands us to go out and teach, and to do everything in our lives
for Him.

> (2) Over and over the new testament presents the Way as a choice each
> person gets to make for themselves. (The old testament is almost always
> about a choice given to a person.) Testify to people who have never
> heard about the gospels as you want, but once they know about it, step
> back and let them make their own choice. Browbeating will be
> counterproductive as well as presumes your audience is too feeble to
> decide for themselves. Learn to trust in the power beyond you.

Did Jesus walk away from the people who came believers after having
heard message after message after message?  I was 34 before I came to
believe.  I was raised in the church, and walked away at age 15 because
I saw the hypocrisy.  It wasn't until I actually met Jesus Christ that
I realized what it meant to be a Christian.  It took a protractive
effort by some devout Christians to prepare me, but it took God to make
it happen.  And, based on testimony, it is the same for all people.

No one can bring someone to Christ.  But by hearing the word, it begins
to become understood and it undoes the false teaching the enemy does in
this world.  It replaces that wrong thinking with not only right
thinking, but also an example of that type of living as per one's life.

We are told many times in scripture to put God first.  Here are three:

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/22-37.htm
    "37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all
        thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    "38 This is the first and great commandment.
    "39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour
        as thyself."

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/6-33.htm
    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and
     all these things shall be added unto you."

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/colossians/3-17.htm
    "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the
     Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

The world teaches us incorrectly how to be.  It is being led by an
enemy who is bent on our destruction (Satan, and all his demon imps):

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/12-9.htm
    "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the
     Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast
     out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

-----
We have a real purpose.  Our lives are to be lived before the other
people of this Earth, in His sight, in a manner holy and acceptable,
pleasing unto the Lord.

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/colossians/1-10.htm
    "That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being
     fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of
     God;"

Our lives are to be lived for Him in all we do.  And the teachings
of this world, which tell you to get all you can and can all you get
and seal it up and sit on the lid, they need to be shown for what
they are:  dead-ended.  Literally.

-----
Jesus has plans for to help each other.  It begins by educating the
people about this, so that they themselves can hear, and as God moves
within their spirit, they too can come out from the deception of the
enemy and walk as children of the light, servants of God, believers
in Jesus Christ, the redeemed, the hopeful, and the faithful.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#88143

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:40:54 AM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> 
> He commands us to go out and teach, and to do everything in our lives
> for Him.
> 
That was a command to the apostles, who formed a co-opting body
known as the bishops. A bishop's job is to teach. But if you're 
not a bishop you may not preach in the name of the Church, unless
you're designated the job by a bishop as his subordinate (in
fact that happens a lot, my girlfriend is a catechist, for example,
she's got a certificate that authorises her to teach the basics
of the faith to children. The certificate is of course signed by
the bishop).

If you're not a bishop and not acting on behalf of a bishop, then
of course you can say things about Jesus and you may often be
correct. But you are only giving your own personal, private views,
you are not fulfilling Jesus' command.

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#88160

On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 11:54:56 PM UTC-4, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:40:54 AM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > 
> > He commands us to go out and teach, and to do everything in our lives
> > for Him.
> > 
> That was a command to the apostles, who formed a co-opting body
> known as the bishops. A bishop's job is to teach. But if you're 
> not a bishop you may not preach in the name of the Church, unless
> you're designated the job by a bishop as his subordinate (in
> fact that happens a lot, my girlfriend is a catechist, for example,
> she's got a certificate that authorises her to teach the basics
> of the faith to children. The certificate is of course signed by
> the bishop).
> 
> If you're not a bishop and not acting on behalf of a bishop, then
> of course you can say things about Jesus and you may often be
> correct. But you are only giving your own personal, private views,
> you are not fulfilling Jesus' command.

When a person is born again, God's Holy Spirit comes to reside within
them.  They are a new creation, one who is attuned to and moved from
within toward God, and for God.  That necessarily means a teaching spirit
for Jesus destroyed the barriers between man and God at the cross.  When
He died, the veil separating the holy place from the most holy place was
rent in two from top to bottom.  There now exists no separation between
us and God, which means we are each ambassadors, priests, and servants
of His Kingdom:

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/27-51.htm
    "And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top
     to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/1_peter/2-9.htm
    "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation,
     a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who
     hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/2_corinthians/5-20.htm
    "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech
     you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God."

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/2_corinthians/6-4.htm
    "But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in
     much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,"

The word ministers in 2 Corinthians 6:4 is the Greek word diakonos, which
is shown here, which is used for several aspects of being a disciple of
Jesus Christ (does His work, servant of the King, has been given a charge
over the people to which he's stationed, a waiter/server):

    http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1249

-----
In all areas we are to be Christ's, and that necessarily means teaching
others the same things He first taught us so that they too might come to
faith as we did (through the witness of others, and the change He made
within us so that we could see and know that witness of others).

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#88161

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 1:32:47 PM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 11:54:56 PM UTC-4, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>
> > If you're not a bishop and not acting on behalf of a bishop, then
> > of course you can say things about Jesus and you may often be
> > correct. But you are only giving your own personal, private views,
> > you are not fulfilling Jesus' command.
> 
> When a person is born again, God's Holy Spirit comes to reside within
> them.  They are a new creation, one who is attuned to and moved from
> within toward God, and for God.  That necessarily means a teaching spirit
> for Jesus destroyed the barriers between man and God at the cross.  When
> He died, the veil separating the holy place from the most holy place was
> rent in two from top to bottom.  There now exists no separation between
> us and God, which means we are each ambassadors, priests, and servants
> of His Kingdom:
> 
You're confusing baptism with water with baptism with fire.
Baptism with water makes someone "born again", it is an essential for salvation
and can be conferred by any person on any other, with only water, the intention
to baptise, and the formula "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy 
Ghost" or an equivalent. If your baptism didn't include that Trinitarian formula,
you are not baptised, not born again, and cannot be saved until such time as
you are validly baptised.

Baptism with fire confers the Holy Spirit. It can only be conferred by a bishop
or someone delegated by him (rarely allowed and always in practice a priest,
though I think it could be delegated to a layman in an emergency). That's why
a bishop wear a mitre. It represents the flames which were the visible symbol
of the Spirit at Pentecost.
Pentecost is also the occasion of the dogmatic proclamation of the beliefs of
the Church, and so normally the Church requires that candidates be able
to understand and reiterate that dogma, but that can be waived. It's not essential
for salvation to be confirmed.

The presence of God left the temple at the moment of Jesus' death, but it did
not descend upon the Church until fifty days later. The order of the priests
of Levi was defunct, but the order of Melchizedek (who offered gifts of
bread and wine, and was not a Jew, he was not a descendant of Abraham)
was revived, and it is simply not true to say that there are no Christian priests. 

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#88163

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 9:26:07 AM UTC-4, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 1:32:47 PM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 11:54:56 PM UTC-4, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> >
> > > If you're not a bishop and not acting on behalf of a bishop, then
> > > of course you can say things about Jesus and you may often be
> > > correct. But you are only giving your own personal, private views,
> > > you are not fulfilling Jesus' command.
> > 
> > When a person is born again, God's Holy Spirit comes to reside within
> > them.  They are a new creation, one who is attuned to and moved from
> > within toward God, and for God.  That necessarily means a teaching spirit
> > for Jesus destroyed the barriers between man and God at the cross.  When
> > He died, the veil separating the holy place from the most holy place was
> > rent in two from top to bottom.  There now exists no separation between
> > us and God, which means we are each ambassadors, priests, and servants
> > of His Kingdom:
>
> You're confusing baptism with water with baptism with fire.
> Baptism with water makes someone "born again", it is an essential for salvation

Baptism with water by itself does nothing except possibly convey an outward
presentation of the inward state of the believer's heart, which is born
again in isolation from water baptism.  People can be baptized, for example,
and never be born again.  People can be baptized as a child, as an adult,
more than once, and continue to live just as the world does.  People can
also profess to accept Jesus Christ, to be His disciple, and live as the
world does (or worse).  Jesus told us we would know them by their fruit,
which for the believer is an ongoing pattern throughout their lives in all
aspects of their lives.  Each believer may stumble from time to time, but
the general pattern of the born again believer will be consistently in
service to His Kingdom in all areas of movement in this life.

-----
When one is forgiven by God, they are born again in that very instant.
Their sin is taken away and as a result they are alive again in eternity.
God's Holy Spirit immediately comes to dwell with the believer from that
point forward, a seal or deposit guaranteeing that which is to come, one
which constantly guides from within, leading one always toward truth,
given to teaching, insight, and inspiring as one moves in this world,
therefore serving in ways toward God, and God's will.

Receiving the Holy Spirit does not require the laying on of hands, and
He is received wherever a person is, no matter their current condition
in sin, so long as they are truly seeking repentance, and they ask the
Lord Jesus Christ to forgive them.  A sinner, in the midst of their sin,
can come to faith knowing they are doing wrong, desiring to repent, and
asking for forgiveness.  They will then from that point forward be on
the path of sanctification and will leave their former sinful activities
even of their own volition because His work on the inside of their heart
convicts and condemns them such that without outside interpersonal
involvement, they will no longer want to be continuing on in that sin as
they have.  And it is a quick process, but also an evolutionary one as
some people do continue in inappropriate behavior due to the inertia of
their former life, and it takes time for them to change everything.  But
the major sins will become repulsive immediately as He pours out the
gift of conviction and repentance to those who are sealed.

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/ephesians/4-30.htm
    "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto
     the day of redemption."

And in general:

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/ephesians/4.htm
    "21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him,
        as the truth is in Jesus:
    "22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man,
        which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
    "23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
    "24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in
        righteousness and true holiness."

-----
I won't debate you here, Malcom.  But I will teach you if you'll listen.

Read what I post and consider it.  And remember, Satan is in the church
as well.  He introduces false teachings which are of the traditions and
teachings of men, and not the teachings of God.  We must seek God's Holy
Spirit to guide us in all things, asking Him by name to our source, and
purposefully rejecting falsehood and wrongness, shunning it, and even
calling it out when it is seen, though with a gentle spirit in teaching,
in light of scripture and founded upon a full-on pursuit of the truth
without regard to prior personally held beliefs, church traditions, or
any other thing which seeks to divide.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#88168

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:02:20 PM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> Baptism with water by itself does nothing except possibly convey an outward
> presentation of the inward state of the believer's heart, which is born
> again in isolation from water baptism.
>
That's not what Jesus said, at least as reported in the gospels, and it's certainly
not what the Early Church believed. Baptism by water was an essential for 
membership.
>
> I won't debate you here, Malcom.  But I will teach you if you'll listen.
> 
> Read what I post and consider it.  And remember, Satan is in the church
> as well.  He introduces false teachings which are of the traditions and
> teachings of men, and not the teachings of God.  
>
The Church has the charism of infallibility. It cannot formally promulgate Satanic
teachings as dogma, it is protected from that by the supernatural agency of the 
Holy Spirit. (It sounds like a hard claim to swallow, in fact if you accept that
Jesus founded the Church and was God Himself, it's obvious that He would have
to provide that guarantee, otherwise no-one could be sure whether they were 
following Him or Satan).
Obviously if you are not a member, you are not covered by that guarantee,
and if you are not an officer, such as I am not, you are not covered either -
I'm protected from heresy only in so far as my summary of teachings is accurate,
and whilst I'm pretty well informed, you shouldn't rely on what I say.

As we see, you've taught a false doctrine about baptism, one that we can demonstrate
pretty clearly wasn't held by Jesus or the early Christians. Much of what you say 
about Jesus and His teachings may be correct, but only in the same way that
a person with an interest in Julius Caesar might say a lot of things about Caesar
which are historically correct. You express only a private, personal opinion.

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#88171

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:51:25 AM UTC-4, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:02:20 PM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> >
> > Baptism with water by itself does nothing except possibly convey an outward
> > presentation of the inward state of the believer's heart, which is born
> > again in isolation from water baptism.
>
> That's not what Jesus said, at least as reported in the gospels, and it's
> certainly not what the Early Church believed. Baptism by water was an
> essential for membership.

Remember the thief on the cross.  He was not baptized, was untouched by
believers.  He was not even touched by Jesus Christ.  He was forgiven
right there on the spot, and was told by Jesus that today he would be
with Him in paradise.

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/23-43.htm
    "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be
     with me in paradise."

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/acts/2-21.htm
    "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of
     the Lord shall be saved."

There are going to be saints in the endmost times who come to faith in
Christ while in prison shortly before their death.  They will not be able
to be baptized by water, yet they will be saved.

Jesus also teaches:

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/6-44.htm
    "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
     and I will raise him up at the last day."

God is spirit.  He draws men to His Son spiritually, a supernatural
change takes place inside which allows that person to be drawn to Jesus,
so they can be forgiven.  It is all God.  It is not us in any way, as
His Spirit is compulsive upon us when He comes to us because He is life,
and that life breathes and we are simply alive by Him.

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/john/3-3.htm
    "3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
       Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    "5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
       born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom
       of God.
    "6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born
       of the Spirit is spirit.

The water referred to in verse 5 is explained in verse 6 as being part
of flesh, as the water in the womb which yields forth unto flesh birth.

We also see here the correlation between the Old Testament precursor or
pattern, and the New Testament fulfillment and embodiment.

    "14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must
        the Son of man be lifted up:
    "15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal
        life.
    "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
        that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
        everlasting life."

Those in Moses' time did not have to do anything other than look up at the
serpent when bitten.  They didn't have to understand how it worked, or go
forth and touch it, or any other thing.  They simply had to look upon and
believe (essentially doing as they were told).

-----
I would like to remind you of the warning given to teachers:

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/3-1.htm
    "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive
     the greater condemnation."

It is not a trifle matter to teach on the subject of God.  It requires
the firmest and utmost sincerity and understanding.  It is something
that must be weighed heavily before opening one's mouth to teach.

I advise you to be sure you are teaching correctly before you teach
others, and:

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/proverbs/4-7.htm
    "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all
     thy getting get understanding."

You owe it to God, to yourself, and to any you would seek to influence
as by your teaching.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#88177

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 11:19:25 AM UTC-4, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> I would like to remind you of the warning given to teachers:
> 
>     http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/3-1.htm
>     "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive
>      the greater condemnation."
> 
> It is not a trifle matter to teach on the subject of God.  It requires
> the firmest and utmost sincerity and understanding.  It is something
> that must be weighed heavily before opening one's mouth to teach.
> 
> I advise you to be sure you are teaching correctly before you teach
> others, and:
> 
>     http://biblehub.com/kjv/proverbs/4-7.htm
>     "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all
>      thy getting get understanding."
> 
> You owe it to God, to yourself, and to any you would seek to influence
> as by your teaching.

FWIW, I take this very seriously.  It has been one of the reasons I have
not been a teacher in church.  I have also advised many people who get up
to teach to consider this same thing, but I also recognize that for each
person they will be accountable unto God for that which they know, and
that which is of the abilities He gave them:

    http://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/12-48.htm
    "48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes,
        shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is
        given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have
        committed much, of him they will ask the more."

The person who gets up and teaches and is sincerely believing what they
are teaching, willing to receive rebuke and counter-instruction toward
rightness, the same is known by God and will be as Luke 12:48 states.
That person will also receive the rebuke and go back to God, to the
scripture, and study to show themselves approved, a workman who need
not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word or truth.

This is a very weighty thing, and also FWIW, I was somewhat surprised
yesterday that I posted this lengthy original post.  It was a movement
from within, and not one of my own conscious choosing, such as I sat
down and said to myself, "I wonder what I should do today?" and then
concluded upon that direction.  It was not like that at all, and when
I began writing and was completed I actually stood there beside my
desk in a mild state of disbelief over what I had just written.

The same thing has happened tome half a dozen times or so when I've
posted things with regards to Visual FreePro and the Village Freedom
Project.  I am moved from within to write those things, and I know
it is not me doing it alone, but it is God working through me.  And
whereas I may make mistakes, God knows that if I do, then I will be
corrected and receive that correction when it comes.  Gladly even, as
I desire above all to teach things rightly, and I seek confirmation
of my spirit in prayer before posting.

It is a rigorous form of movement for me, and one that I must do
because I recognize the true weight of the task of being a teacher.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#88178

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 4:19:25 PM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:51:25 AM UTC-4, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 3:02:20 PM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > >
> > > Baptism with water by itself does nothing except possibly convey an outward
> > > presentation of the inward state of the believer's heart, which is born
> > > again in isolation from water baptism.
> >
> > That's not what Jesus said, at least as reported in the gospels, and it's
> > certainly not what the Early Church believed. Baptism by water was an
> > essential for membership.
> 
> Remember the thief on the cross.  He was not baptized, was untouched by
> believers.  He was not even touched by Jesus Christ.  He was forgiven
> right there on the spot, and was told by Jesus that today he would be
> with Him in paradise.
> 
Blood and water flowed from Jesus' side as He was pierced.
How do you know that a drop was not splashed on the good thief?
>
> I advise you to be sure you are teaching correctly before you teach
> others, and:
> 
> You owe it to God, to yourself, and to any you would seek to influence
> as by your teaching.
> 
I am reasonably well informed. But if anything I say worries you or you
feel it is significant, I would urge you not to rely on me, but to speak
to an officer of the Church, someone who is formally qualified to
preach. I don't even have a catechist's certificate, and my views are
my own. I don't claim the charism of infallibility. 

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#88179

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 12:00:24 PM UTC-4, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 4:19:25 PM UTC+1, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > I advise you to be sure you are teaching correctly before you teach
> > others, and:
> > 
> > You owe it to God, to yourself, and to any you would seek to influence
> > as by your teaching.
>
> I am reasonably well informed. But if anything I say worries you or you
> feel it is significant, I would urge you not to rely on me, but to speak
> to an officer of the Church, someone who is formally qualified to
> preach. I don't even have a catechist's certificate, and my views are
> my own. I don't claim the charism of infallibility.

All truth-seekers will consider all things that are reasonable and bring
into question prior teachings they've received, or an understanding of
Biblical passages they've read.  I do this, and I take things to God in
prayer, in study, and to others in the church when needed.

I was rebuked years ago by someone from my family on a misunderstanding
I had over a teaching on marriage.  The person who rebuked me was harsh
in the rebuke, but even so I knew as they were speaking the words that
their teaching was true.

And something similar happened a year or so back.  I received a rebuke
I will never forget, and one that to this day cuts me to my core on
occasion.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#88184

Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
[...]
> You're confusing baptism with water with baptism with fire.

Malcolm, the last time I read one of Rick's articles he posted with
a valid e-mail address.  He probably still does.  Please use it,
and keep this crap away from comp.lang.c.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#88144

On 05/25/16 13:56, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <70d8967e-3815-4ee2-bc92-b912d15ccc7e@googlegroups.com>,
>   "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe now is a good time to start ignoring these posts: 
news.individual.net has started dropping them :)

-- 
Ian

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#88251

On 05/24/2016 09:56 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> summarised the law as love your god and love your fellow humans. Nothing there
> about when. If you love your god, trust him to provide your tomorrows and for
> your tomorrows whatever you need.

Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

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#88356

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2K_Spl4Yyo

;^)

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