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Groups > comp.lang.c > #98113 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-12-05 19:57 -0600 |
| Last post | 2016-12-06 12:06 +0800 |
| Articles | 11 on this page of 131 — 25 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c
"Let’s Stop Bashing C" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 19:57 -0600
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 02:34 +0000
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 00:13 -0600
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-06 23:15 +0000
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 21:16 -0600
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 11:54 +0000
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-06 12:07 +0000
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 12:25 +0000
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-06 14:07 +0100
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 13:40 +0000
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-06 19:40 +0100
Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-06 13:55 -0500
Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 19:13 +0000
Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-06 11:51 -0800
Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 12:22 -0800
Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-06 20:16 +0100
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 11:20 -0800
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-06 22:15 +0100
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-06 16:49 -0500
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 14:24 -0800
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 00:07 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-07 22:04 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 23:44 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-07 23:02 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 15:28 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 21:36 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 12:56 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:03 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 14:21 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:36 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-08 21:59 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:25 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 14:34 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:59 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-09 00:18 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 00:06 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2016-12-09 11:35 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-09 12:12 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:33 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-09 15:41 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 09:28 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-10 09:58 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 22:53 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-11 03:10 -0600
Re: micro-architectural details jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2016-12-11 13:48 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-11 14:43 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-11 16:23 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-11 12:53 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-11 21:27 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-11 08:46 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 21:14 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-15 08:25 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 21:11 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-15 14:28 +0000
Re: micro-architectural details David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-11 18:38 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-15 00:25 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-09 07:42 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-09 11:54 -0800
Re: micro-architectural details David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 10:27 +0100
Re: other missing features (no-brainers) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-09 17:05 +0100
Re: micro-architectural details jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2016-12-09 09:51 +0000
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 20:42 -0500
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 14:16 -0800
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 00:31 +0100
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-06 15:55 -0800
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 01:01 +0100
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 16:42 -0800
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 01:55 +0100
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 07:11 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-12-06 23:05 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 00:43 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 03:06 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 11:47 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 03:10 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 03:13 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 11:47 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-07 12:08 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-07 23:45 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 00:22 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 15:32 -0800
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 01:25 +0100
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 16:36 -0800
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 17:09 -0800
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 10:28 +0100
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-08 08:34 -0800
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 20:08 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 10:24 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 15:49 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 15:23 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 16:58 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 18:57 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-08 15:29 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 17:09 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-08 16:41 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 17:04 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 17:15 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-08 11:34 -0500
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 18:40 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 10:00 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 19:05 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 19:58 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 08:22 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 20:12 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 11:40 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 02:44 -0600
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-08 16:22 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 20:14 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 02:19 -0600
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 07:44 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 22:05 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 22:14 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 10:39 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 13:33 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 11:13 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-07 06:27 -0600
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 07:17 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-07 23:43 -0600
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-12-07 07:41 +0000
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 11:45 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 09:22 -0800
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 11:49 +0100
Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 09:28 -0500
Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-06 14:22 -0500
Re: Subject field encoding Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-07 21:40 +0100
Re: Subject field encoding Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 13:01 -0800
Re: Subject field encoding Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-07 16:02 -0500
Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-12-08 15:50 -0800
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 19:07 +0000
Re: "Let€™s Stop Bashing C" Xcott Craver <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-07 16:48 -0500
Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-07 23:29 +0100
Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 12:06 +0800
Page 7 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]
| From | jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-07 11:49 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" |
| Message-ID | <o28pds$lhj$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #98235 |
Le 07/12/2016 à 08:41, Ike Naar a écrit : > I don't see how one could efficiently > "test the overflow flag" Who cares about efficiency here? If an exception occurs, it means it will be very slow, as always. But that happens only when there is an overflow, the normal pathway is almost identical since the trap generating instructions and the normal instructions are very similar in execution time in the normal (no overflow) case.
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| From | Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-07 09:28 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" |
| Message-ID | <o29676$vli$2@jstuckle.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #98241 |
On 12/7/2016 5:49 AM, jacobnavia wrote: > Le 07/12/2016 à 08:41, Ike Naar a écrit : >> I don't see how one could efficiently >> "test the overflow flag" > > Who cares about efficiency here? If an exception occurs, it means it > will be very slow, as always. But that happens only when there is an > overflow, the normal pathway is almost identical since the trap > generating instructions and the normal instructions are very similar in > execution time in the normal (no overflow) case. > *almost identical* is the key. Add one test here, another there - pretty soon you're testing all kinds of things and C becomes as slow and bloated as other languages. You're the programmer. If overflow is important to you, you need to check for it. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle jstucklex@attglobal.net ==================
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| From | "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-06 14:22 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" |
| Message-ID | <3794ad29-2617-1fc1-3666-78a3ae585623@verizon.net> |
| In reply to | #98193 |
On 12/06/2016 01:55 PM, Lew Pitcher wrote: > On Tuesday December 6 2016 13:40, in comp.lang.c, "jacobnavia" > <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote: > >> Le 06/12/2016 à 13:25, Richard Heathfield a écrit : >>> What's the point? You're wasting your time complaining about something >>> you can't change (and, if you did change it, it would no longer be the >>> thing you need, in which case you'd have sawn off the branch you were >>> sitting on). ... >> Your opinion is that C should remain frozen with Turbo C's language. > > I have yet to see Richard Heathfield claim /that/ opinion. Again, you need to > cite your source, or retract your claim. While he has not said that about Turbo C, he has said it about C90, at least as far as his own use of the language is concerned. <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/kN6JDgiENDw/a6gDrCMEnK4J>
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| From | Noob <root@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-07 21:40 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Subject field encoding |
| Message-ID | <o29s2e$ibr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #98193 |
Lew, Your news client changed the Subject field: from Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?= to Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C" Is that correct? My own news client displays that as "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" which looks wrong. Regards.
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| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-07 13:01 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: Subject field encoding |
| Message-ID | <lnr35j1miu.fsf@kst-u.example.com> |
| In reply to | #98294 |
Noob <root@127.0.0.1> writes:
> Lew,
>
> Your news client changed the Subject field:
>
> from
>
> Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=
>
> to
>
> Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C"
>
> Is that correct?
>
> My own news client displays that as
> "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C"
> which looks wrong.
The original article in the thread had this subject header:
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldOKAmXMgU3RvcCBCYXNoaW5nIEMi?=
which my newsreader displays as:
Subject: "Let’s Stop Bashing C"
where the apostrophe is a RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK character, U+2019.
Some newsreaders have problems with encoded non-ASCII characters.
There's not a lot we can do about it, other than manually editing
the characters as needed. (When I posted a followup in this thread,
I changed the U+2019 character to an ASCII apostrophe.)
(I've had similar problems with the word "écrit", which appears
in jacob's attribution lines. This is not a complaint; this stuff
*should* work transparently.)
Now let's see if my newsreader will let me post this.
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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| From | Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-07 16:02 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Subject field encoding |
| Message-ID | <o29tab$m9u$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #98294 |
On Wednesday December 7 2016 15:40, in comp.lang.c, "Noob" <root@127.0.0.1>
wrote:
> Lew,
>
> Your news client changed the Subject field:
>
> from
>
> Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=
>
> to
>
> Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C"
>
> Is that correct?
>
> My own news client displays that as
> "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C"
> which looks wrong.
Looking at the thread in total, it appears that a number of news clients have
similar problems with the original Subject: line.
Lynn McGuire's original post was headed
Message-ID: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldOKAmXMgU3RvcCBCYXNoaW5nIEMi?=
and Richard Heathfield's reply to that message had
Message-ID: <o25823$ufe$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=
Later, Jacob Navia posted
Message-ID: <o270js$b8g$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
<o25823$ufe$1@dont-email.me>
<o269kh$kna$1@dont-email.me>
<o26am1$o34$1@dont-email.me>
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=
which I replied to with
Message-ID: <o271gi$ejv$1@dont-email.me>
References: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
<o25823$ufe$1@dont-email.me>
<o269kh$kna$1@dont-email.me>
<o26am1$o34$1@dont-email.me>
<o270js$b8g$1@dont-email.me>
Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C"
It doesn't look like something I can fix.
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"
PGP public key available upon request
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| From | asetofsymbols@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-08 15:50 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" |
| Message-ID | <5f780719-39ba-4a37-badb-90571c186c4f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #98193 |
For what i have seen in 'big number float' or big int is need carry flag...
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| From | Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-06 19:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <o2726v$hhb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #98191 |
On 06/12/16 18:40, jacobnavia wrote: > Le 06/12/2016 à 13:25, Richard Heathfield a écrit : >> What's the point? You're wasting your time complaining about something >> you can't change (and, if you did change it, it would no longer be the >> thing you need, in which case you'd have sawn off the branch you were >> sitting on). > > C can't test for overflow. Well, it sort of can. But if you mean that there is no provision in standard C to test a CPU's flags, you're right. C doesn't require the CPU to have flags to test. > Most software in C is not prepared to deal > with overflow. When it's important that overflow should not happen and plausible that it might, one would hope that the programmer would take appropriate steps to ensure that it doesn't happen. I will grant you that in most circumstances this isn't a consideration, but that may well be because in most circumstances overflow isn't terribly likely. > lcc-win proposes a pseudo-function called overflow() that will give you > the value of the overflow flag. Implementations are free to provide extensions. > Did "Navia's C" as you call it, Did I? I may have done. I don't remember calling it that, though. > get heavy and full of unnecessary > features because lcc-win programmers can easily test overflow??? I don't know. I don't use lcc-win. > Your opinion is that C should remain frozen with Turbo C's language. To be more precise, my opinion is that any implementation is free to provide any extensions it wishes and, as long as it still correctly translates correct programs, it remains a C compiler. > I absolutely do not agree with that It's an odd position. You are free to implement a new feature every ten minutes if that's what you want to do. What do you have against people who would prefer /not/ to use those features? Given a language X, we have a certain well-defined set of features and constructs. If that language is successful, the label 'X' will come to be associated with those features and constructs. If someone now comes along with a new feature, Y, they have three choices: (a) get the definition of X changed to incorporate Y (in which case the well-defined set of features and constructs that was formerly called X now has no name); or (b) provide an implementation of X that includes Y as an extension; or (c) create a new language with a new name, a language that incorporates Y right from the start. Choice (a) seems to be the one you'd prefer, but it is the only one that inconveniences anyone! Choice (b) is what most implementors do, and occasionally someone such as, say, Stroustrup will choose (c). I don't see the value of constantly changing the definition of the language. I /do/ see the value of innovation, but... well, let's take the bicycle. Someone decides it would be really cool to add an engine. Fine! Great! Fantastic! But why call the resulting product a bicycle? Why, for example, lobby to have the definition of "bicycle" changed so that an engine is now /required/? There are people who prefer to push the pedals around for themselves. Why steal their word and, eventually, obsolesce their machine? Why not come up instead with a new word, such as, oh, "motorcycle", to describe the vastly superior new product that you have designed? If you want C-with-overflow-detection, that's fantastic news and I, for one, will stand awed and amazed at your innovative creativity. But please forgive me if I don't get too enthusiastic about using your innovation myself. I'll carry on using C, because I know it works everywhere. And the reason it works everywhere is that, although the ISO C committee keep buggering about with it, they can't bugger about with it quickly enough to matter, and to be fair to them they also have the good sense to protect the existing code base from changes that are too wide-ranging and dramatic. -- Richard Heathfield Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999 Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
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| From | Xcott Craver <nospam@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-07 16:48 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: "Let€™s Stop Bashing C" |
| Message-ID | <o2a00b$11b$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #98115 |
On 2016-12-06 02:34:57 +0000, Richard Heathfield said: > If you (and, Lynn, I am using "you" in the generic sense here, not > targeting you personally!) --- I was saying, if you don't like either > of those, that's absolutely fine. So use something different. But > what's the point of using something that's pretty much the same as the > thing you don't like? Excellent point. If I'm going to learn a new programming language, it had better be different enough from C that it offers something I don't already have with C. Actually, the ideal non-C language would be something with very different features, but which also interfaces so well with C code that I can swap between two languages when writing a single program, choosing whatever is best for each component. In that respect I am a big fan of Tcl, because it cleanly interfaces with C and lets me write C functions for all the compute-intensive or byte-level stuff, and lets me roll my own data structures for the C side of things---but then I can write in Tcl for the UI, event and exception handling, files strings and sockets and servers and metaprogramming. -- == "Taking jokes seriously is the exact mirror activity of laughing if someone says they have cancer." --jbou
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| From | Noob <root@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-07 23:29 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" |
| Message-ID | <o2a2dp$93e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #98302 |
On 07/12/2016 22:48, Xcott Craver wrote: > Excellent point. If I'm going to learn a new programming language, it > had better be different enough from C that it offers something I don't > already have with C. > > Actually, the ideal non-C language would be something with very > different features, but which also interfaces so well with C code that > I can swap between two languages when writing a single program, > choosing whatever is best for each component. > > In that respect I am a big fan of Tcl, because it cleanly interfaces > with C and lets me write C functions for all the compute-intensive or > byte-level stuff, and lets me roll my own data structures for the C > side of things---but then I can write in Tcl for the UI, event and > exception handling, files strings and sockets and servers and > metaprogramming. The question is: Can you program underhandedly in pickle?
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| From | "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-12-06 12:06 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <o25def$44d$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #98113 |
On 6/12/2016 9:57 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote: > "Let’s Stop Bashing C" > http://h2co3.org/blog/index.php/2016/12/01/lets-stop-bashing-c/ I think the BASH shell was and is written in C. :)
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