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Groups > comp.lang.c > #104113 > unrolled thread

Is this valid C?

Started byBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
First post2017-02-18 00:43 +0000
Last post2017-02-25 13:13 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 539 — 32 participants

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Contents

  Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 00:43 +0000
    Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-18 02:41 +0000
      Re: Is this valid C? Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2017-02-20 18:00 -0800
        Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-20 18:46 -0800
    Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-18 11:47 +0100
    Re: Is this valid C? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 10:08 -0800
    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 23:30 +0000
      Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-18 15:50 -0800
        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-19 00:53 +0000
      Re: Is this valid C? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:01 -0800
        Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-18 19:20 -0800
          Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 09:41 +0100
            Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-19 09:14 +0000
              Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 10:30 +0100
              Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-19 07:21 -0800
                Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 17:28 +0100
                  Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-19 11:53 -0500
                    Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 18:12 +0100
                      Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-19 13:10 -0500
                        Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 20:24 +0100
                          Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-19 11:51 -0800
                          Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-19 12:26 -0800
                            Getting yourself killfiled (Was: Is this valid C?) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2017-02-19 21:23 +0000
          Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-19 11:23 +0000
            Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-19 07:33 -0800
            Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-19 15:35 +0000
              Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-19 19:42 +0000
              Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-19 12:04 -0800
                Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-19 20:51 +0000
                  Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-19 22:23 +0000
                    Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-19 14:48 -0800
                      Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 00:36 +0000
                        Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-20 09:58 +0100
                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-20 09:14 -0800
                          Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-20 12:17 -0500
                    Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-19 23:16 +0000
                      Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 00:24 +0000
                        Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-20 00:56 +0000
                          Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 01:25 +0000
                            Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 11:14 +0000
                              Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-20 14:44 +0000
                                Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 15:18 +0000
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-20 15:51 +0000
                                    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 16:16 +0000
                        Re: Is this valid C? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-02-23 12:23 +0000
                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-19 15:49 -0800
                      Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 00:55 +0000
                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-20 10:05 +0100
                        Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 07:08 -0800
                          Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-20 16:23 +0100
                          Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 16:03 +0000
                            Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 08:45 -0800
                              Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-20 09:17 -0800
                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 12:25 -0800
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-20 12:29 -0800
                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 13:20 -0800
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-20 13:50 -0800
                                        Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 14:08 -0800
                                          Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-20 15:16 -0800
                                            Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 16:19 -0800
                                              Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-21 09:28 +0100
                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-21 09:19 -0800
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-21 19:21 +0100
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-21 19:21 +0000
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-21 21:34 +0100
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-21 21:31 +0000
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-22 10:09 +0100
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-22 10:43 +0100
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-22 12:43 +0000
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-22 15:07 +0000
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-22 09:26 -0800
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-22 16:28 +0100
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-22 17:18 +0000
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-22 09:22 -0800
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-22 19:20 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-22 11:34 -0800
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-22 11:49 -0800
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-22 20:11 +0000
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-22 21:45 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-22 23:13 +0100
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-22 23:45 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-23 10:35 +0100
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-23 01:10 +0100
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 00:35 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-22 16:42 -0800
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-23 11:06 +0100
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 11:07 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-23 10:49 +0100
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 12:18 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-23 17:30 +0100
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-23 18:48 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-23 01:52 +0000
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 11:37 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-23 15:11 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-23 07:36 -0800
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-23 16:49 +0000
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-23 09:04 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-23 17:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 16:14 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-23 16:51 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-23 17:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-22 22:57 +0100
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-22 15:31 -0800
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-22 15:46 -0800
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-22 18:35 -0600
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 00:46 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-22 22:39 -0600
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 10:57 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-02-24 17:57 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-23 11:17 +0100
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-02-23 19:03 +0000
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 20:11 +0000
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-23 20:36 +0000
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 21:20 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-02-24 18:28 +0000
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 18:45 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-02-24 19:53 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-24 12:06 -0800
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 20:38 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 10:11 +1300
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 10:15 +1300
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-24 15:02 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 12:10 +1300
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-25 10:33 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-25 13:25 -0800
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-02-24 21:27 +0000
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 22:00 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-28 20:17 +0000
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-25 01:22 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 17:40 -0800
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-25 11:06 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-25 12:43 -0800
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-25 21:32 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 10:39 +1300
                                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-25 21:53 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 11:07 +1300
                                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-02-25 19:19 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-26 17:12 +1300
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-02-26 00:13 +0000
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 00:56 +0100
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 01:19 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 03:18 +0100
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-24 14:03 +0000
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 14:28 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 16:20 +0100
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 07:49 -0800
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 17:03 +0100
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-24 16:19 +0000
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 09:50 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-24 18:48 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-24 17:25 +0100
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 16:40 +0000
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-24 16:50 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-25 19:52 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-26 09:17 +0100
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 17:44 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 18:07 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-24 18:45 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-24 19:56 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-25 19:58 +0100
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 10:01 -0800
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-02-24 14:28 -0800
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-24 16:08 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-02-24 18:18 +0000
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-02-25 15:37 +0000
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-21 10:56 -0800
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-02-27 05:18 -0600
                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-27 08:46 -0800
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-02-27 11:26 -0600
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-27 13:57 -0800
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-27 14:06 -0800
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-02-28 04:25 -0600
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-28 15:45 -0800
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-03-01 03:46 -0600
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 06:30 -0800
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-01 16:31 +0100
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 08:37 -0800
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-01 19:02 +0100
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 10:49 -0800
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-01 21:00 +0100
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 14:02 -0800
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-01 12:28 -0800
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 12:17 -0800
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-07 14:53 -0800
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-01 09:10 -0800
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 09:51 -0800
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2017-03-02 19:44 +0000
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-03-02 12:05 -0800
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-03-02 04:19 -0600
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-02 06:06 -0800
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-03-02 10:16 -0600
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-02 15:32 -0800
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-03-03 04:20 -0600
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-03 05:19 -0800
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-03 08:22 -0800
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-02 19:34 +0100
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-02 08:02 -0800
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-03-02 10:54 -0600
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-02 16:35 -0800
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-16 18:30 -0700
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 07:52 -0800
                                      Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-20 13:53 -0800
                                  Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-20 12:58 -0800
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-20 17:28 -0600
                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 16:03 -0800
                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-21 09:14 +0100
                      Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 05:10 -0800
                        Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-23 07:43 -0800
                          Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-26 07:07 -0800
                            Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-26 09:17 -0800
                        Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 08:17 -0800
                        Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-23 09:11 -0800
                          Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-23 09:46 -0800
                            Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-23 09:55 -0800
                              Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-23 10:27 -0800
                              Re: Is this valid C? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-02-23 20:32 +0000
                                Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-23 12:54 -0800
                          Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-26 10:06 -0800
                            Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-26 13:13 -0800
                              Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-17 11:56 -0700
                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-17 12:32 -0700
                            Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-26 14:36 -0800
                              Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-30 08:30 -0700
                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-05-01 09:34 -0700
                  Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-19 15:54 -0800
                Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 13:02 -0800
                  Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-23 14:53 -0800
                    Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-25 18:33 -0800
            Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 10:58 -0800
      Re: Is this valid C? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-02-19 09:06 +0000
        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-19 10:53 +0000
        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 09:06 -0500
          Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-19 16:25 +0000
            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-19 11:42 -0500
              Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-19 17:45 +0000
                Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 11:57 -0800
                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-23 21:27 +0000
                    Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-25 05:03 -0800
                  Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-23 13:39 -0800
                    Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-25 17:42 -0800
                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-23 16:41 -0500
                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-24 10:04 +0000
                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 08:43 -0500
                      Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-24 14:53 +0000
                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 12:57 -0500
                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-24 20:04 +0000
                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 15:35 -0500
                          Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 12:37 -0800
                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 16:18 -0500
                              Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 15:21 -0800
                                Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-24 16:09 -0800
                                  Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 17:45 -0800
                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-25 14:44 -0800
                                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 20:08 -0500
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 14:15 +1300
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 21:48 -0500
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-25 10:35 +0000
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-25 09:12 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-25 14:24 +0000
                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-25 15:59 -0500
                                  Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 18:03 -0800
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 21:50 -0500
                                      Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 19:04 -0800
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 23:20 -0500
                              Re: Is this valid C? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2017-02-25 21:26 -0700
                                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-26 10:09 -0500
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-26 17:41 +0000
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2017-02-26 12:56 -0500
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 00:23 +0000
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-26 19:02 +0100
                                      Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-26 13:49 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-26 19:55 +0100
                                      Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-26 12:05 -0800
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 00:52 +0000
                                        Re: Is this valid C? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-26 22:01 -0500
                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 10:42 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 08:51 -0500
                                          Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-27 13:59 +0000
                                            Re: Is this valid C? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-02-27 15:36 +0000
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-27 10:01 -0800
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-02-27 18:57 +0000
                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 10:47 -0500
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 16:35 +0000
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 15:14 -0500
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 21:05 +0000
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 21:26 +0000
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:12 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:12 -0500
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 23:20 +0000
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 18:45 -0500
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 00:05 +0000
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 19:48 -0500
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 02:32 +0000
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 23:27 -0500
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-28 17:55 +1300
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 12:23 -0500
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 05:09 +0000
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 12:27 -0500
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-28 10:06 -0800
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 13:16 -0500
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-02 15:54 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-03 11:26 +0100
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-03 10:33 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-03 12:30 +0100
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-03 11:32 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-03 13:48 +0100
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-03 12:41 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-03 12:47 +0000
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-03 12:57 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-03 13:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-03 13:57 +0100
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-03 05:23 -0800
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-03 15:58 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-03 07:13 -0800
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-03 12:53 -0500
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-03 19:33 +0000
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-03-03 21:18 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-03 21:23 -0500
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-28 19:58 +0100
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:21 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 21:07 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:22 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-28 21:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:24 -0500
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:23 -0500
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-28 09:01 +0100
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 12:30 -0500
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 18:05 +0000
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 13:27 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 19:01 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:26 -0500
                                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 21:13 +0000
                                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:28 -0500
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-28 20:12 +0100
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:38 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-28 20:46 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:29 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 21:15 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:30 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-28 23:08 +0100
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:34 -0500
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-28 13:40 -0800
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-28 19:14 +0000
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:39 -0500
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 21:17 +0000
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:36 -0500
                                            Re: Is this valid C? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-02-27 17:19 +0000
                                              Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-27 17:52 +0000
                                                Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-27 19:20 +0100
                                    Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-26 10:15 -0800
                                    Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-26 14:12 -0500
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-26 15:50 -0500
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 00:50 +0000
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-26 20:12 -0500
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ralf Damaschke <rwspam@gmx.de> - 2017-02-27 16:59 +0000
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 19:35 +0000
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-27 12:12 -0800
              Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 11:36 -0800
                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-23 16:43 -0500
              Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 12:22 -0800
                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 15:39 -0500
                  Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 13:26 -0800
                    Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-24 18:53 -0500
                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 20:14 -0500
                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 20:13 -0500
                      Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 18:33 -0800
                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 21:58 -0500
                          Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 19:38 -0800
                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 23:21 -0500
                              Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-25 06:57 -0800
                                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-25 16:08 -0500
                  Re: Is this valid C? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-24 15:03 -0800
                    Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 12:12 +1300
                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 20:20 -0500
                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 20:19 -0500
          Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-19 08:42 -0800
            Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-19 08:58 -0800
            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-23 16:45 -0500
              Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 11:43 -0800
                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 15:42 -0500
                  Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 13:40 -0800
                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 20:23 -0500
                      Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-24 18:54 -0800
                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-24 23:17 -0500
                          Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-25 19:15 -0800
                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-25 23:10 -0500
                            Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-26 12:00 -0500
                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-26 15:57 -0500
                                Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-26 21:54 +0000
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-26 19:45 -0500
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 01:29 +0000
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 10:52 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-02-27 16:04 +0000
                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 11:16 -0500
                                            Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 20:42 +0000
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:18 -0500
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-28 01:34 +0000
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-27 17:55 -0800
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-28 02:16 +0000
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-28 10:09 +0000
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 23:28 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-28 10:16 +0000
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 12:31 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-28 20:17 +0100
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 19:26 +0000
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:42 -0500
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-28 23:30 +0100
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 08:37 -0500
                                    Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 09:19 +0000
                                      Re: Is this valid C? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-27 09:14 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 11:00 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 16:24 +0000
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 10:58 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 16:39 +0000
                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 15:19 -0500
                                            Re: Is this valid C? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-02-27 20:57 +0000
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 21:52 +0000
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:21 -0500
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 23:33 +0000
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 18:49 -0500
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 16:06 -0800
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 19:52 -0500
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 17:10 -0800
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 23:31 -0500
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-28 06:44 -0800
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 00:14 +0000
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 20:00 -0500
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 02:37 +0000
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 23:37 -0500
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:20 -0500
                                            Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 21:21 +0000
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:29 -0500
                                                Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 15:04 -0800
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 18:58 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 16:18 -0800
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 20:03 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 17:17 -0800
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 23:40 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 02:57 +0000
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 23:46 -0500
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 00:01 +0000
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-27 19:23 -0500
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 20:05 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 17:51 -0800
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 00:00 -0500
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-28 09:23 -0800
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 13:32 -0500
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-01 07:36 +1300
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:43 -0500
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 21:21 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 11:39 -0500
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-01 16:56 +0000
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-03-01 09:12 -0800
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-01 19:07 +0100
                                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-30 08:34 -0700
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-03-01 18:00 +0100
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-01 09:49 -0800
                                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-16 20:52 -0700
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:26 +1300
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 11:40 -0500
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-01 16:57 +0000
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? me <crisdunbar@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 10:19 -0800
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-28 20:25 +0100
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:45 -0500
                                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:28 +1300
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2017-03-01 03:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 11:43 -0500
                                                                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-01 10:28 -0800
                                                                Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-28 11:35 -0800
                                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:46 -0500
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 03:07 +0000
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-27 23:56 +0000
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 20:18 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 18:05 -0800
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 00:02 -0500
                                            Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 21:36 +0000
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:32 -0500
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-28 01:29 +0000
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 00:09 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 05:22 +0000
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 12:36 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 18:10 +0000
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 13:35 -0500
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 18:56 +0000
                                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:46 -0500
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 19:39 +0000
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:48 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-28 10:46 +0000
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 12:43 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-01 02:08 +0000
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 11:52 -0500
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-01 16:58 +0000
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-01 09:32 -0800
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-03-01 21:50 +0000
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-03-01 09:18 -0800
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-26 19:47 -0500
                                Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-26 19:24 -0800
                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 11:08 -0500
                                    Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 10:15 -0800
                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 15:08 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 13:26 -0800
                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:40 -0500
                                            Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-27 15:37 -0800
                                              Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-27 18:54 -0500
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 19:02 -0500
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 00:35 +0000
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 19:44 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 02:27 +0000
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 23:20 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-28 04:45 +0000
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-28 17:57 +1300
                                                            Re: Is this valid C? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 11:27 +0100
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 13:06 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-28 06:26 -0800
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 13:09 -0500
                                            Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-28 17:36 +1300
                                              Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 13:10 -0500
                                                Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-01 07:28 +1300
                                                  Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-28 15:49 -0500
                                                    Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:30 +1300
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-03-01 01:38 +0000
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 11:54 -0500
                                                      Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 11:53 -0500
                                                        Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-02 07:35 +1300
                                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-03-01 16:50 -0500
                                        Re: Is this valid C? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-27 21:45 +0000
                                          Re: Is this valid C? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2017-02-27 17:43 -0500
                Re: Is this valid C? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-24 16:59 -0500
      Re: Is this valid C? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-19 11:03 +0100
        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-19 12:10 +0000
    Re: Is this valid C? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 10:34 -0800
    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-23 22:39 +0000
      Re: Is this valid C? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-24 11:49 +1300
        Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-23 15:25 -0800
      Re: Is this valid C? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-23 15:09 -0800
    Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-25 14:29 +0000
      Re: Is this valid C? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-25 07:04 -0800
        Re: Is this valid C? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-25 15:27 +0000
      Re: Is this valid C? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-25 13:13 -0800

Page 8 of 27 — ← Prev page 1 … 6 7 [8] 9 10 … 27  Next page →


#104559

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-02-24 01:19 +0000
Message-ID<o8o1jg$aho$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104555
On 23/02/2017 23:56, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 20:11:01 +0000
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> And real makefiles rapidly get completely incomprehensible.
>
> Just learn the basic rules, that's not more complicated than writing your own
> building script. Once more, make is POSIX compliant which is pretty common to
> all Linux and BSD systems.
>
> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xcu/make.html

Sorry, it's not for me. But others may benefit if they want to go with 
the crowd.

(BTW why does it need to have such a cryptic syntax? If 30,000-line 
configure files are in order, then why not spell things out a little 
more obviously?

Also, is the following makefile syntax? Or does it need further 
processing become a proper makefile? It's part of makefile.in for gmp 
(the other is makefile.am):

# Makefile.in generated by automake 1.11.6 from Makefile.am.
# @configure_input@
....
.... 100 lines later...

VPATH = @srcdir@
am__make_dryrun = \
   { \
     am__dry=no; \
     case $$MAKEFLAGS in \
       *\\[\ \   ]*) \
         echo 'am--echo: ; @echo "AM"  OK' | $(MAKE) -f - 2>/dev/null \
           | grep '^AM OK$$' >/dev/null || am__dry=yes;; \
       *) \
         for am__flg in $$MAKEFLAGS; do \
           case $$am__flg in \
             *=*|--*) ;; \
             *n*) am__dry=yes; break;; \
           esac; \
         done;; \
     esac; \
     test $$am__dry = yes; \
   }
pkgdatadir = $(datadir)/@PACKAGE@
pkgincludedir = $(includedir)/@PACKAGE@
pkglibdir = $(libdir)/@PACKAGE@
pkglibexecdir = $(libexecdir)/@PACKAGE@
am__cd = CDPATH="$${ZSH_VERSION+.}$(PATH_SEPARATOR)" && cd
install_sh_DATA = $(install_sh) -c -m 644
install_sh_PROGRAM = $(install_sh) -c
install_sh_SCRIPT = $(install_sh) -c
INSTALL_HEADER = $(INSTALL_DATA)
transform = $(program_transform_name)
NORMAL_INSTALL = :
PRE_INSTALL = :
...

There are, mercifully, only 1400 lines of this stuff (but 29770 lines of 
configure scripts). I don't think anyone can say this is anything other 
than gobbledygook. At least, it makes gcc header files look marvellously 
clear in comparison!)

-- 
Bartc

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#104561

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-24 03:18 +0100
Message-ID<20170224031809.309050f95d8a5d45257f46f9@gmail.com>
In reply to#104559
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 01:19:27 +0000
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

> Also, is the following makefile syntax? Or does it need further 
> processing become a proper makefile? It's part of makefile.in for gmp 
> (the other is makefile.am):
> 
> # Makefile.in generated by automake 1.11.6 from Makefile.am.
> # @configure_input@

A picture is worth a thousand words...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Autoconf-automake-process.svg/644px-Autoconf-automake-process.svg.png

Indeed Autotools generate a lot of craps! ;-)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104578

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-02-24 14:03 +0000
Message-ID<73XrA.2256$Jo.1844@fx02.iad>
In reply to#104559
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 23/02/2017 23:56, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 20:11:01 +0000
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And real makefiles rapidly get completely incomprehensible.
>>
>> Just learn the basic rules, that's not more complicated than writing your own
>> building script. Once more, make is POSIX compliant which is pretty common to
>> all Linux and BSD systems.
>>
>> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xcu/make.html
>
>Sorry, it's not for me. But others may benefit if they want to go with 
>the crowd.
>
>(BTW why does it need to have such a cryptic syntax? If 30,000-line 
>configure files are in order, then why not spell things out a little 
>more obviously?
>
>Also, is the following makefile syntax? Or does it need further 
>processing become a proper makefile? It's part of makefile.in for gmp 
>(the other is makefile.am):
>
># Makefile.in generated by automake 1.11.6 from Makefile.am.
># @configure_input@

This isn't a Makefile, it is an autoconf intermediate file.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104580

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-02-24 14:28 +0000
Message-ID<o8pfrk$2lc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104578
On 24/02/2017 14:03, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> On 23/02/2017 23:56, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 20:11:01 +0000
>>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And real makefiles rapidly get completely incomprehensible.
>>>
>>> Just learn the basic rules, that's not more complicated than writing your own
>>> building script. Once more, make is POSIX compliant which is pretty common to
>>> all Linux and BSD systems.
>>>
>>> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xcu/make.html
>>
>> Sorry, it's not for me. But others may benefit if they want to go with
>> the crowd.
>>
>> (BTW why does it need to have such a cryptic syntax? If 30,000-line
>> configure files are in order, then why not spell things out a little
>> more obviously?
>>
>> Also, is the following makefile syntax? Or does it need further
>> processing become a proper makefile? It's part of makefile.in for gmp
>> (the other is makefile.am):
>>
>> # Makefile.in generated by automake 1.11.6 from Makefile.am.
>> # @configure_input@
>
> This isn't a Makefile, it is an autoconf intermediate file.

This sort of reinforces my point. That you can't even tell what is or 
isn't or makefile.

Apparently, in this example, the makefile proper doesn't even exist 
except as some temporary, transient file. Then no amount of docs are 
going to help understanding when things go wrong. (And if you could 
pinpoint the place in the temp makefile, that doesn't help because the 
actual problem is buried within two or three generations of automatic 
scripting.)

It also reinforces the points I keep making that certain tools, 
exemplified by gcc and its retinue of Linux utilities, are getting so 
complicated to drive that it is necessary to keep adding extra layers of 
tools so that in the end no one really knows what is going on.

Nor it is easy for them to see when the complexity of what they are 
doing starts to exceed the complexity of the task: namely, run a 
compiler on a bunch of files.

-- 
Bartc

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#104590

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-24 16:20 +0100
Message-ID<20170224162041.c697432c2be56cea0c91ecad@gmail.com>
In reply to#104580
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 14:28:52 +0000
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:

> This sort of reinforces my point. That you can't even tell what is or 
> isn't or makefile.

Please don't be stupid and plug your brain! I point you the documentation of
the make utility with the standard definition of a make file often named
"makefile" or capitalized as "Makefile" to be listed as the first of your
source files in the ASCII (or ECMA-6) order. A makefile is like a building
script which manage dependencies to update your last target, executable or
library.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104592

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2017-02-24 07:49 -0800
Message-ID<7f79697a-74bd-4cc6-a1dc-2e8fed032283@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#104590
On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 3:22:44 PM UTC, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 14:28:52 +0000
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> 
> > This sort of reinforces my point. That you can't even tell what is or 
> > isn't or makefile.
> 
> Please don't be stupid and plug your brain! I point you the documentation of
> the make utility with the standard definition of a make file often named
> "makefile" or capitalized as "Makefile" to be listed as the first of your
> source files in the ASCII (or ECMA-6) order. A makefile is like a building
> script which manage dependencies to update your last target, executable or
> library.
>
That was the original idea.

You would list .c files and their dependencies, included .h files, so you only needed
to recompile the .c when the .h changed. A nice idea for its time, when most programs
were only a few source files and compilation was slow.

But in fact maintaining the dependency list in the makefile rapidly got unwieldy as
programs got more complex. And the command gcc *.c  would run fast enough,
maybe not quite as fast as "make" but it would chug through C source  fast
enough.
But instead of being abandoned, makefiles have turned into components in
the build chain. CMake is effectively a programming language in its own right,
and on many systems outputs a make file. Then there are also configuration 
files. Often the make file isn't human-readable any longer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104594

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-24 17:03 +0100
Message-ID<20170224170310.40aa324d5dd91b3cc0e2459d@gmail.com>
In reply to#104592
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 07:49:42 -0800 (PST)
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> wrote:

> But in fact maintaining the dependency list in the makefile rapidly got unwieldy as
> programs got more complex. And the command gcc *.c  would run fast enough,
> maybe not quite as fast as "make" but it would chug through C source  fast
> enough.

If the program is too complex to be built with a simple makefile, you should
better improve its design! Don't build trivial functions, just include the
source when it's necessary.


> But instead of being abandoned, makefiles have turned into components in
> the build chain. CMake is effectively a programming language in its own right,
> and on many systems outputs a make file. Then there are also configuration 
> files. Often the make file isn't human-readable any longer.

That's why (junior) programmers hate makefiles in addition to the dependency to
POSIX systems, in other words all but no Windows.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104596

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-02-24 16:19 +0000
Message-ID<Y1ZrA.17435$2F2.13409@fx22.iad>
In reply to#104592
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 3:22:44 PM UTC, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 14:28:52 +0000
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > This sort of reinforces my point. That you can't even tell what is or 
>> > isn't or makefile.
>> 
>> Please don't be stupid and plug your brain! I point you the documentation of
>> the make utility with the standard definition of a make file often named
>> "makefile" or capitalized as "Makefile" to be listed as the first of your
>> source files in the ASCII (or ECMA-6) order. A makefile is like a building
>> script which manage dependencies to update your last target, executable or
>> library.
>>
>That was the original idea.
>
>You would list .c files and their dependencies, included .h files, so you only needed
>to recompile the .c when the .h changed. A nice idea for its time, when most programs
>were only a few source files and compilation was slow.
>
>But in fact maintaining the dependency list in the makefile rapidly got unwieldy as
>programs got more complex. 

Nonsense.  see, for example makedepend(1).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104608

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com>
Date2017-02-24 09:50 -0800
Message-ID<4adfc2c9-b974-4c6a-87e5-f3227bf2a62f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#104596
On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 4:19:12 PM UTC, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
> >
> >But in fact maintaining the dependency list in the makefile rapidly got unwieldy as
> >programs got more complex. 
> 
> Nonsense.  see, for example makedepend(1).
>
No, exactly. Maintaining a manual list of dependencies was too hard. And in any case,
the information was available automatically, and pretty trivially assuming sanely-written
code. So enter makedepend. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104620

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-02-24 18:48 +0000
Message-ID<Od%rA.6316$2h7.5224@fx10.iad>
In reply to#104608
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 4:19:12 PM UTC, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>> >
>> >But in fact maintaining the dependency list in the makefile rapidly got unwieldy as
>> >programs got more complex. 
>> 
>> Nonsense.  see, for example makedepend(1).
>>
>No, exactly. Maintaining a manual list of dependencies was too hard. And in any case,
>the information was available automatically, and pretty trivially assuming sanely-written
>code. So enter makedepend. 

makedepend dates back to the early 80's, less than 8 years after make was
first written, over 30 years ago now.

GCC support to replace makedepend (-MMD) is almost that old.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#104597

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-02-24 17:25 +0100
Message-ID<o8pmmk$te1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104592
On 24/02/17 16:49, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 3:22:44 PM UTC, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 14:28:52 +0000
>> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This sort of reinforces my point. That you can't even tell what is or
>>> isn't or makefile.
>>
>> Please don't be stupid and plug your brain! I point you the documentation of
>> the make utility with the standard definition of a make file often named
>> "makefile" or capitalized as "Makefile" to be listed as the first of your
>> source files in the ASCII (or ECMA-6) order. A makefile is like a building
>> script which manage dependencies to update your last target, executable or
>> library.
>>
> That was the original idea.
>
> You would list .c files and their dependencies, included .h files, so you only needed
> to recompile the .c when the .h changed. A nice idea for its time, when most programs
> were only a few source files and compilation was slow.
>
> But in fact maintaining the dependency list in the makefile rapidly got unwieldy as
> programs got more complex. And the command gcc *.c  would run fast enough,
> maybe not quite as fast as "make" but it would chug through C source  fast
> enough.
> But instead of being abandoned, makefiles have turned into components in
> the build chain. CMake is effectively a programming language in its own right,
> and on many systems outputs a make file. Then there are also configuration
> files. Often the make file isn't human-readable any longer.
>

This is all roughly true.  But the big question here - the elephant in 
the room - is "so what?".  What does it matter that some projects have 
big makefiles?  Or that some makefiles are hard to comprehend?  Some 
people find a complex makefile useful - let them write complex 
makefiles.  Some people find it makes sense to package everything into a 
single C file - easy to compile, but totally impractical to modify.  Let 
them do that.  Some people like to use autotools to make software that 
is portable to a huge range of systems, even though the generated 
makefiles are not human-readable - let them do that.

Simple makefiles are easily to write and easy to comprehend.  The only 
reason Bart finds them hard is that he is determined to find them hard, 
no matter how much effort it takes to remain ignorant.  It's the same 
attitude he uses to C, especially to arrays.

Complex makefiles can definitely be harder to write and comprehend.  The 
ones I use have some bits that many people would find difficult to 
follow in the details.  Some bits /I/ find difficult - I am not fluent 
in "sed" command lines, and would need some work to see what the ones I 
use actually do.  But the result is a makefile that I use again and 
again, that compiles multi-directory projects in exactly the way I want 
with exactly the options I want, in an optimal manner, generating 
exactly the variety of output files that I want.  Writing a good 
makefile is an investment in time and effort that pays off later by 
making the rest of the development easier, and far more consistent.

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#104600

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-24 16:40 +0000
Message-ID<87zihbzgng.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#104597
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> Simple makefiles are easily to write and easy to comprehend.  The only
> reason Bart finds them hard is that he is determined to find them
> hard, no matter how much effort it takes to remain ignorant.  It's the
> same attitude he uses to C, especially to arrays.

I genuinely believe that Bart would tie his shoelaces together and
publically fall on his face in order to demonstrate the superiority of
a (wholly theoretical) pair of flip-flops of his own design.

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#104602

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-02-24 16:50 +0000
Message-ID<mvZrA.6428$U%7.3589@fx04.iad>
In reply to#104597
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

>Complex makefiles can definitely be harder to write and comprehend.  The 
>ones I use have some bits that many people would find difficult to 
>follow in the details.  Some bits /I/ find difficult - I am not fluent 
>in "sed" command lines, and would need some work to see what the ones I 
>use actually do.

I wouldn't consider anything in the recipe to be make(1).   That includes
invoking sed within a recipe.   The recipe can be considered for most
purposes to be a simple shell script.

The complexities in makefiles come from correctly noting prerequisites and
dealing with multiple source directories as well as correctly quoting
elements in the recipe (e.g. distinguishing between make variables and
environment variables).

And I don't subscribe to the meme that "recursive make is harmful".

(I note that someone has published an answer to the "Recursive
make is harmful" paper called "Non-recursive make is harmful").

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#104712

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-02-25 19:52 +0100
Message-ID<o8sjlm$22q$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104602
On 24/02/17 17:50, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>
>> Complex makefiles can definitely be harder to write and comprehend.  The
>> ones I use have some bits that many people would find difficult to
>> follow in the details.  Some bits /I/ find difficult - I am not fluent
>> in "sed" command lines, and would need some work to see what the ones I
>> use actually do.
>
> I wouldn't consider anything in the recipe to be make(1).   That includes
> invoking sed within a recipe.   The recipe can be considered for most
> purposes to be a simple shell script.

It is true that the sed parts are called by make, rather than being part 
of make or the makefile.  Since they are given in the makefile, and (in 
my case) used to manipulate dependency files for make, I view it as part 
of the same process.  But divide up the tasks as you see fit - just 
because /I/ think of these as part of writing the makefile, does not 
mean you or anyone else needs to do so.

>
> The complexities in makefiles come from correctly noting prerequisites and
> dealing with multiple source directories as well as correctly quoting
> elements in the recipe (e.g. distinguishing between make variables and
> environment variables).
>

Agreed - that's usually the most complicated bits.

> And I don't subscribe to the meme that "recursive make is harmful".
>
> (I note that someone has published an answer to the "Recursive
> make is harmful" paper called "Non-recursive make is harmful").
>

I like to use a single "make" process for the compilation of all parts 
of my code, split across different directories.  I prefer that because 
parts can have dependencies that span more than one directory.  But I 
also use recursive make for generating different target variations from 
the same code - it is "recursive make" in the sense that one make 
instance is calling other make instances, but it is not "recursive make" 
in the sense that it is not simply calling "make" in each sub-directory.

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#104745

FromJean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org>
Date2017-02-26 09:17 +0100
Message-ID<8760jxwelt.fsf@news.bourguet.org>
In reply to#104602
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> (I note that someone has published an answer to the "Recursive
> make is harmful" paper called "Non-recursive make is harmful").

_Non-recursive Make Considered Harmful_ by A. Mokhov et al. is not a
refutation of P. Miller's _Recursive Make Considered Harmful_, it is
arguing that make is not really up the task for complex build procedure
(their case was the Glasgow Haskell Compiler, if I've understood correctly
it has boostrap procedure along with generated code where the code
generator depend on code its generate, and they want to reach a fixed
point; compilation of LaTeX has the same issue when cross-references and
indexes are presents, at least I think that in the GHC case, they are sure
that it is a converging process, with LaTeX you can be alternating) and
they are proposing a replacement which is an Haswell library.

Do you have another article in mind?

Yours,

-- 
Jean-Marc

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#104607

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-02-24 17:44 +0000
Message-ID<o8praa$fhe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104597
On 24/02/2017 16:25, David Brown wrote:
> On 24/02/17 16:49, Malcolm McLean wrote:

> This is all roughly true.  But the big question here - the elephant in
> the room - is "so what?".  What does it matter that some projects have
> big makefiles?  Or that some makefiles are hard to comprehend?  Some
> people find a complex makefile useful - let them write complex
> makefiles.  Some people find it makes sense to package everything into a
> single C file - easy to compile, but totally impractical to modify.  Let
> them do that.  Some people like to use autotools to make software that
> is portable to a huge range of systems, even though the generated
> makefiles are not human-readable - let them do that.

I don't have any disagreement about that at all. People can use whatever 
tools they like.

The big problem is when they want to inflict those tools on everyone else.

My experience is that makefiles ARE problematical, especially outside of 
Unix/Linux. They are tied to a compiler. They may fail for any number of 
reasons. My gcc currently doesn't even HAVE a make.exe (but there are a 
dozen other make.exe files belonging to different applications. God 
knows which one is invoked when I type 'make')

And in the case of the gmp project, apparently the makefile doesn't 
exist until makefile.am is converted to makefile.in which is converted 
to 'makefile'. I can't run the configure set-up to get to that point so 
that I could get inside it to see what the hell it is doing, even if 
could understand it.

Effectively, the people who are writing these supposedly portable C 
applications are holding a gun to your head and saying either you use 
the stipulated set of tools, or forget about trying to use the applications.

This is what I object to. No one else seems to understand this. Just 
tell me which ******* C files to compile! Is that too hard to do? Or are 
these people so dependent on these automatic tools that THEY DON'T 
ACTUALLY KNOW?

Of course the easier option is to say that *I* am the one who's incompetent!

> Simple files are easily to write and easy to comprehend.

But yet not so simple that they can be transcribed into English for 
those who would otherwise have problems.

Look at the group name: it's about the C language. It is accepted that 
you need a 'compiler' of some sort to translate source code. It doesn't 
say anything about makefile syntax, or gcc options, or bash or sed or 
autoconf commands, or about m4 or whatever.

These may be an accepted part of a particular development set up. But it 
is unreasonable for a C application to have to come with all that 
baggage when you want to share the source with anyone else. If the 
configuration is problematical, then think of a more portable solution.

Example: Tiny C's sources consist of 16 .c files and 11 .h files. It 
doesn't sound like a hugely complicated application. Yet the 'configure' 
file is 540 lines of instructions. The makefile for those 16 modules 
contains 350 lines. I'm fairly certain that build instructions in 
English wouldn't run to 15 pages of single-spaced text.

-- 
Bartc

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#104614

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-02-24 18:07 +0000
Message-ID<o8psll$kb8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104607
On 24/02/2017 17:44, BartC wrote:

> And in the case of the gmp project,

(Here are some notes I put together on how to obtain gmp binaries for 
Windows, based on my own experience (from late 2015):

   http://pastebin.com/TdLakph1

Note that, if I were to use gmp in my own projects, and I wanted other 
people to run those projects, then it would be up to those other people 
to make the effort of getting the gmp binaries, not me (I don't think I 
can redistribute other people's binary code)

In the end I very I wisely decided not to have a dependency on gmp. 
Instead I use my own much smaller and much slower library, one 800-line 
module, but it has none of the problems of sourcing gmp and generates no 
headaches for anyone else.

Actually, the best advice, if gcc is installed, is to look inside it for 
a file "libgmp*.dll", as gcc uses it itself. Then you just need to find 
a gmp.h header from elsewhere, and hope the versions aren't too different.).

-- 
Bartc

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#104618

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-02-24 18:45 +0000
Message-ID<8b%rA.6315$2h7.524@fx10.iad>
In reply to#104614
BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 24/02/2017 17:44, BartC wrote:
>
>> And in the case of the gmp project,
>
>(Here are some notes I put together on how to obtain gmp binaries for 
>Windows, based on my own experience (from late 2015):

If you must use Windows, and you must use the GNU compiler collection,
then your best choices are:
  1) Use cygwin - prebuilt toolchain and all libraries (including the
     gnu multiprecision library) are easily installed.
  2) Use the new Ubuntu subsystem in windows 10.

Your worst choice is to try to build GCC yourself, or use Mingw.

Your best choice is to dump windows.

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#104629

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-02-24 19:56 +0000
Message-ID<o8q32m$bsr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104618
On 24/02/2017 18:45, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> On 24/02/2017 17:44, BartC wrote:
>>
>>> And in the case of the gmp project,
>>
>> (Here are some notes I put together on how to obtain gmp binaries for
>> Windows, based on my own experience (from late 2015):
>
> If you must use Windows, and you must use the GNU compiler collection,
> then your best choices are:
>   1) Use cygwin - prebuilt toolchain and all libraries (including the
>      gnu multiprecision library) are easily installed.
>   2) Use the new Ubuntu subsystem in windows 10.
>
> Your worst choice is to try to build GCC yourself, or use Mingw.
>
> Your best choice is to dump windows.

I don't know how serious you are being. But you seem to be suggesting 
that the authors of a particular C library have made it so fantastically 
complicated to build on anything that is not Linux, that it would be 
easier to change OS.

OK....

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#104713

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-02-25 19:58 +0100
Message-ID<o8sk0b$36g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104618
On 24/02/17 19:45, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> BartC <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> On 24/02/2017 17:44, BartC wrote:
>>
>>> And in the case of the gmp project,
>>
>> (Here are some notes I put together on how to obtain gmp binaries for
>> Windows, based on my own experience (from late 2015):
>
> If you must use Windows, and you must use the GNU compiler collection,
> then your best choices are:
>   1) Use cygwin - prebuilt toolchain and all libraries (including the
>      gnu multiprecision library) are easily installed.
>   2) Use the new Ubuntu subsystem in windows 10.
>
> Your worst choice is to try to build GCC yourself, or use Mingw.
>

I would say that the best choice is to use msys2, which is a collection 
of *nix utilities, along with mingw64 which is gcc for windows that 
includes a proper C library rather than relying on MSVC's outdated dll.

cygwin tries too hard to make a posix emulation in windows - that makes 
it slow and awkward, as well as having complicated licensing.  mingw gcc 
is much less "alien".

And msys2 has gmp too :-)


> Your best choice is to dump windows.
>

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