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Groups > comp.lang.c > #94683 > unrolled thread

C Programming Tutorial on Youtube

Started byMehdiAmini <atorrses@gmail.com>
First post2016-10-10 15:51 +0000
Last post2016-10-10 15:11 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 183 — 24 participants

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  C Programming Tutorial on Youtube MehdiAmini <atorrses@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 15:51 +0000
    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-10 17:14 +0100
      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2016-10-10 13:25 -0400
        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-10 11:06 -0700
      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-10 22:18 +0100
        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-10 16:29 -0700
          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-11 00:07 -0700
            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-11 08:36 +0100
              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 09:51 -0700
            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-11 07:09 -0700
            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 09:48 -0700
              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-11 10:10 -0700
                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 11:54 -0700
          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-11 08:13 -0400
            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-11 07:49 -0700
              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-11 12:28 -0400
                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-11 09:51 -0700
                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-11 21:02 -0400
                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-13 14:48 +0200
                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-13 10:20 -0400
                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-15 12:18 -0400
                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-15 16:47 -0400
                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-15 14:31 -0700
                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 15:21 -0700
                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-15 22:47 -0400
                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 05:19 +0100
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 08:37 -0400
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 17:59 +0100
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 15:48 -0400
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 00:27 +0300
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-16 17:42 -0400
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2016-10-17 10:23 +0300
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:07 -0400
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 18:28 -0400
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-17 10:08 -0400
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 17:51 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2016-10-18 13:29 +0300
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2016-10-18 13:24 +0300
                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-16 13:29 -0400
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 18:36 +0100
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 11:39 -0700
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 15:54 -0400
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-16 15:38 -0700
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 23:53 +0100
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 19:40 -0400
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-17 06:31 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:09 -0400
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-17 14:16 +0100
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 19:40 -0400
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-16 19:23 -0700
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-16 22:33 -0400
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-10-16 20:09 -0700
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:13 -0400
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:58 +0200
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:14 -0400
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-17 07:44 -0400
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-17 13:22 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 17:55 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 09:22 -0400
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-17 08:32 -0700
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 17:21 -0400
                                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2016-10-17 16:07 -0700
                                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-10-17 21:00 -0400
                                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 21:49 -0700
                                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-18 10:45 -0400
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 10:55 +0200
                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anand Hariharan <mailto.anand.hariharan@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 16:01 -0700
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-17 19:29 -0400
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-18 00:33 -0700
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-18 08:41 +0100
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-18 01:54 -0700
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-18 08:28 -0700
              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 10:05 -0700
                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-11 11:12 -0700
                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 11:52 -0700
                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 12:18 -0700
                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-11 22:15 +0100
                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 14:40 -0700
                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-11 23:45 +0100
                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 18:08 -0700
                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-11 18:41 -0700
                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-11 18:55 -0700
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-10-14 22:09 -0400
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-15 10:51 +0100
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-15 19:11 +0100
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-15 21:14 +0100
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-15 22:33 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-15 23:13 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 15:34 -0700
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 00:37 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 01:00 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-17 17:48 +0100
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-17 20:09 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-15 23:55 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 16:19 -0700
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 00:55 +0100
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-16 01:11 +0100
                                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 22:17 +0100
                                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 23:11 +0100
                                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-10-16 19:55 -0400
                                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-17 01:12 +0100
                                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-17 01:56 +0100
                                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-17 14:27 -0700
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 04:55 +0100
                                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-16 11:49 +0100
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 14:55 -0700
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 12:47 -0700
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-15 11:02 +0100
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-15 12:12 -0700
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-15 14:56 -0700
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 05:27 -0700
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 08:41 -0700
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-17 10:18 -0700
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 11:34 -0700
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-10-18 08:05 +1300
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-17 12:39 -0700
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-17 21:17 +0100
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-17 22:46 +0200
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2016-10-18 14:06 +0300
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-18 12:18 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2016-10-20 15:09 +0300
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-20 14:29 +0100
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-10-23 13:15 +0000
                                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2016-11-06 16:17 +0300
                                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-11-07 11:21 -0800
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-10-18 13:59 +0200
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-18 14:32 +0100
                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 06:57 +0100
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-12 10:25 +0100
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 13:14 +0100
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-12 16:44 +0100
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 16:53 +0100
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-12 18:37 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 18:50 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-12 19:41 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 20:18 +0100
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-12 12:56 -0700
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-12 21:04 +0100
                                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-12 14:18 -0700
                                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-12 15:12 -0700
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-13 01:49 -0700
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 09:55 +0100
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-13 02:09 -0700
                                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 10:35 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-13 08:23 -0700
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 18:49 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-12 10:52 -0700
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-12 12:06 -0700
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-12 19:41 +0100
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-13 01:59 -0700
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 10:34 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-13 13:08 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-13 05:22 -0700
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-13 13:29 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-13 08:31 -0700
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-13 08:31 -0700
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-13 18:57 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-13 19:26 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-13 08:27 -0700
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-15 15:09 -0700
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-16 16:45 +0100
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-16 16:51 +0100
                                      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-13 12:04 +0100
                                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-13 13:17 +0100
                                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-13 14:17 +0100
                                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-10-13 20:14 +0100
                                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-10-13 22:00 +0100
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-10-12 08:14 -0400
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-12 05:28 -0700
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 13:30 +0100
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 13:59 +0100
                                    Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-12 08:47 -0700
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-10-12 05:29 -0700
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-10-12 08:31 -0700
                        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-10-11 18:29 -0700
                          Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 06:55 +0100
                            Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-10-12 17:54 +0100
                              Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 18:09 +0100
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-12 13:46 -0400
                                  Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-10-12 18:54 +0100
                                Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-10-12 13:46 -0700
      Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-10-10 18:01 -0400
        Re: C Programming Tutorial on Youtube supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-10-10 15:11 -0700

Page 2 of 10 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 … 10  Next page →


#94867

From"James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2016-10-15 12:18 -0400
Message-ID<3b0a70e3-9c51-d228-7995-286f75a162ef@verizon.net>
In reply to#94753
On 12/10/16 03:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 10/11/2016 12:51 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
...
>> Actually, as you've frequently demonstrated, you have no idea what
>> the standard says. You almost never cite the words of the standard,
>> and never present arguments based upon those words, and you never
>> respond to such arguments with anything other than insults (see
>> above). You know what you want it to say, and that's what you think
>> it does say, and the actual words of the standard play no apparent
>> role in the process that leads you to that conclusion. That the
>> committee could deliberately choose to write the standard to mean
>> something different from what you think it ought to say is
>> completely beyond your comprehension. And then you accuse those of
>> us who have learned how to comprehend the correct meaning of those
>> words of lacking "reading comprehension" skills :-}
>>
>
> No, I don't cite the language of the standard, because I'm not a
> language lawyer.  I look at the *meaning* of the standard - which
> escapes you and the likes of you.  It's why I won't discuss the
> standard with the language lawyers.
...
>> That's OK. I can explain the difference (or more importantly in
>> this context, the lack of relevant differences) for the benefit of
>> others, whether or not you're willing to pay any attention to my
>> explanation.
>>
>
> And quite frankly, I don't give a shit what a language lawyer
> thinks. Including you.

The C committee has never, as far as I can tell, issued a ruling 
directly addressing any of the issues you've argued about on this 
newsgroup. Few people who have misunderstandings of the standard as 
profound as yours have ever bothered filing defect reports about such 
issues - they believe that they're clearly in the right, so there's no 
need to ask the C committee to confirm it.

Since you've never bothered to respond to any of the points I've raised 
with anything except insults against my intelligence, I'm not certain 
which particular parts of my arguments you find objectionable. However, 
since I know that my understanding of the meaning of the standard is 
reasonably close to that of the C committee (though I do disagree with 
them on a fair number of issues), I suspect that if I did know which 
parts you objected to, I could cite text from the C Rationale or 
official Defect Report responses that would indicate that the Committee 
agreed with me on at least some of these points. Of course, you'd 
probably respond by claiming that I'd misunderstood the Rationale and 
the Defect Reports just as badly as I misunderstood the standard. Still, 
while I might not be able to convince you that I was right, I could 
imagine convincing you that the Committee shares at least some of the 
same delusions as I do about what the standard means.

However, your comments above leave me wondering whether even that would 
do any good. In the same sense that I'm a language lawyer, when the C 
Committee resolves Defect Reports, it's serving as the C language analog 
of the US Supreme Court. You can't get any more lawyerly than the 
Supreme Court. If you did somehow become convinced that the Committee 
shared the same delusions as me about the meaning of the standard, would 
you dismiss them, too, as language lawyers? Or would you follow your 
usual approach and simply insult their intelligence?

The C Committee is the ultimate authority on C. If you would be inclined 
to dismiss their opinions due to them being language lawyers, then 
you're not really talking about ISO C at all. You're talking about your 
own private language, which could reasonably be called Stuckle-C.

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#94878

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-10-15 16:47 -0400
Message-ID<ntu4ke$ndr$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#94867
On 10/15/2016 12:18 PM, James R. Kuyper wrote:
> On 12/10/16 03:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 10/11/2016 12:51 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
> ...
>>> Actually, as you've frequently demonstrated, you have no idea what
>>> the standard says. You almost never cite the words of the standard,
>>> and never present arguments based upon those words, and you never
>>> respond to such arguments with anything other than insults (see
>>> above). You know what you want it to say, and that's what you think
>>> it does say, and the actual words of the standard play no apparent
>>> role in the process that leads you to that conclusion. That the
>>> committee could deliberately choose to write the standard to mean
>>> something different from what you think it ought to say is
>>> completely beyond your comprehension. And then you accuse those of
>>> us who have learned how to comprehend the correct meaning of those
>>> words of lacking "reading comprehension" skills :-}
>>>
>>
>> No, I don't cite the language of the standard, because I'm not a
>> language lawyer.  I look at the *meaning* of the standard - which
>> escapes you and the likes of you.  It's why I won't discuss the
>> standard with the language lawyers.
> ...
>>> That's OK. I can explain the difference (or more importantly in
>>> this context, the lack of relevant differences) for the benefit of
>>> others, whether or not you're willing to pay any attention to my
>>> explanation.
>>>
>>
>> And quite frankly, I don't give a shit what a language lawyer
>> thinks. Including you.
> 
> The C committee has never, as far as I can tell, issued a ruling
> directly addressing any of the issues you've argued about on this
> newsgroup. Few people who have misunderstandings of the standard as
> profound as yours have ever bothered filing defect reports about such
> issues - they believe that they're clearly in the right, so there's no
> need to ask the C committee to confirm it.
>

Then you either can't read or can't understand.  I'm not sure which.

> Since you've never bothered to respond to any of the points I've raised
> with anything except insults against my intelligence, I'm not certain
> which particular parts of my arguments you find objectionable. However,
> since I know that my understanding of the meaning of the standard is
> reasonably close to that of the C committee (though I do disagree with
> them on a fair number of issues), I suspect that if I did know which
> parts you objected to, I could cite text from the C Rationale or
> official Defect Report responses that would indicate that the Committee
> agreed with me on at least some of these points. Of course, you'd
> probably respond by claiming that I'd misunderstood the Rationale and
> the Defect Reports just as badly as I misunderstood the standard. Still,
> while I might not be able to convince you that I was right, I could
> imagine convincing you that the Committee shares at least some of the
> same delusions as I do about what the standard means.
> 

As I said - I've learned not to try to discuss the standard with
language lawyers like you.  You can cite text - but have no idea what it
means.  You promote absurd concepts and claim they are within the
standards because the standard doesn't prohibit them.

No, I won't discuss them with you.

> However, your comments above leave me wondering whether even that would
> do any good. In the same sense that I'm a language lawyer, when the C
> Committee resolves Defect Reports, it's serving as the C language analog
> of the US Supreme Court. You can't get any more lawyerly than the
> Supreme Court. If you did somehow become convinced that the Committee
> shared the same delusions as me about the meaning of the standard, would
> you dismiss them, too, as language lawyers? Or would you follow your
> usual approach and simply insult their intelligence?
> 

Yes, you are a language lawyer.  You argue the wording without
understanding the underlying concepts.

And you can't show any point where I disagree with the Committee -
except your absurd concepts which even the Committee doesn't bother with
discussing.

> The C Committee is the ultimate authority on C. If you would be inclined
> to dismiss their opinions due to them being language lawyers, then
> you're not really talking about ISO C at all. You're talking about your
> own private language, which could reasonably be called Stuckle-C.

Yes, it is.  But they are not language lawyers.  They are people who
understand the language and concepts, and create standards accordingly.

Language lawyers can only cite wording and then create their own
interpretations.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#94880

Fromjameskuyper@verizon.net
Date2016-10-15 14:31 -0700
Message-ID<49981d65-38c6-4ea1-ac08-1885dd5aa130@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#94878
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 4:47:36 PM UTC-4, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 10/15/2016 12:18 PM, James R. Kuyper wrote:
> > On 12/10/16 03:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> >> On 10/11/2016 12:51 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
...
> Yes, you are a language lawyer.  You argue the wording without
> understanding the underlying concepts.

You're a language ignoramus - you argue underlying concepts that you don't
understand, and ignore wording that makes that fact clear.

...
> And you can't show any point where I disagree with the Committee -
> except your absurd concepts which even the Committee doesn't bother with
> discussing.

I only said that they haven't discussed the precise issues you've been arguing
about. In the course of discussing those issues, you have frequently disagreed
with particular concepts that the Committee has bothered discussing, and what
they've said about those concepts is much more in line with what I'm saying,
than it is in line with what you're saying. This has happened often enough
that, if you were capable of logical argument rather than name-calling, it
would tear your arguments to shreds. There would be a few pieces left of your
arguments, but not enough to connect your premises to their conclusions. I
could identify the conflicts between your concepts and theirs more clearly if
you had ever bothered responding to the issues I raised, rather than simply
insulting my intelligence. What I'm trying to find out is whether or not it
would be worth my while to track down examples of such disagreements.

The best I'll be able to do is find cases where the Committee reached a
decision on some issue using a concept which was incompatible with your
understanding of C; I won't necessarily be able to find an explicit statement
of the concept they were using, nor a specific denial of the validity of your
concept. If you're simply going to follow your usual approach, and respond to
any such citations I might make, by saying I don't understand them correctly,
without bothering to explain the misunderstanding you think I've made, then
there's no point in my doing so.

...
> > The C Committee is the ultimate authority on C. If you would be inclined
> > to dismiss their opinions due to them being language lawyers, then
> > you're not really talking about ISO C at all. You're talking about your
> > own private language, which could reasonably be called Stuckle-C.
> 
> Yes, it is.  But they are not language lawyers.  They are people who
> understand the language and concepts, and create standards accordingly.
> 
> Language lawyers can only cite wording and then create their own
> interpretations.

I have my own interpretations on a number of issues - but I recognize that it's
the C committee's interpretation that is authoritative, even when I think
they're wrong. However, most of my interpretations are entirely in line with
the Committee's.

I think that if you read more about the Committee's Rationale document and
Defect Report resolutions, you'd quickly find something they said that would
make you dismiss them as language lawyers, insane, or idiots. Have you ever
bothered looking?

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#94887

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2016-10-15 15:21 -0700
Message-ID<lneg3hgsmy.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#94880
jameskuyper@verizon.net writes:
> On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 4:47:36 PM UTC-4, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 10/15/2016 12:18 PM, James R. Kuyper wrote:
>> > On 12/10/16 03:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> >> On 10/11/2016 12:51 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
> ...
>> Yes, you are a language lawyer.  You argue the wording without
>> understanding the underlying concepts.
>
> You're a language ignoramus - you argue underlying concepts that you don't
> understand, and ignore wording that makes that fact clear.

And you're wasting time arguing with him.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#94900

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-10-15 22:47 -0400
Message-ID<ntupo7$7bk$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#94880
On 10/15/2016 5:31 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
> On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 4:47:36 PM UTC-4, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 10/15/2016 12:18 PM, James R. Kuyper wrote:
>>> On 12/10/16 03:02, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2016 12:51 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
> ...
>> Yes, you are a language lawyer.  You argue the wording without
>> understanding the underlying concepts.
> 
> You're a language ignoramus - you argue underlying concepts that you don't
> understand, and ignore wording that makes that fact clear.
>

A typical comment from you.  You consistently prove you have no idea
what you're talking about.  And you're too stoopid to realize it.

You present absurd concepts not even the Standards Committee concerns
themselves with, claiming your concepts are legitimate according to the
Standard.  So stoopid...

> ...
>> And you can't show any point where I disagree with the Committee -
>> except your absurd concepts which even the Committee doesn't bother with
>> discussing.
> 
> I only said that they haven't discussed the precise issues you've been arguing
> about. In the course of discussing those issues, you have frequently disagreed
> with particular concepts that the Committee has bothered discussing, and what
> they've said about those concepts is much more in line with what I'm saying,
> than it is in line with what you're saying. This has happened often enough
> that, if you were capable of logical argument rather than name-calling, it
> would tear your arguments to shreds. There would be a few pieces left of your
> arguments, but not enough to connect your premises to their conclusions. I
> could identify the conflicts between your concepts and theirs more clearly if
> you had ever bothered responding to the issues I raised, rather than simply
> insulting my intelligence. What I'm trying to find out is whether or not it
> would be worth my while to track down examples of such disagreements.
> 

No, you've claimed they haven't discussed the precise issues YOU'VE been
arguing about - because they are so asinine and absurd the Committee
doesn't even bother with them.  But you seem to be king of the absurd.

> The best I'll be able to do is find cases where the Committee reached a
> decision on some issue using a concept which was incompatible with your
> understanding of C; I won't necessarily be able to find an explicit statement
> of the concept they were using, nor a specific denial of the validity of your
> concept. If you're simply going to follow your usual approach, and respond to
> any such citations I might make, by saying I don't understand them correctly,
> without bothering to explain the misunderstanding you think I've made, then
> there's no point in my doing so.
> 

You have NEVER shown a case where the Committee has reached a decision
which conflicts with what I've said.  And no, you can't find an explicit
statement because it doesn't exist.  Nor have you been able to find a
specific denial.

But then I don't promote absurd and asinine concepts like you do.

> ...
>>> The C Committee is the ultimate authority on C. If you would be inclined
>>> to dismiss their opinions due to them being language lawyers, then
>>> you're not really talking about ISO C at all. You're talking about your
>>> own private language, which could reasonably be called Stuckle-C.
>>
>> Yes, it is.  But they are not language lawyers.  They are people who
>> understand the language and concepts, and create standards accordingly.
>>
>> Language lawyers can only cite wording and then create their own
>> interpretations.
> 
> I have my own interpretations on a number of issues - but I recognize that it's
> the C committee's interpretation that is authoritative, even when I think
> they're wrong. However, most of my interpretations are entirely in line with
> the Committee's.
> 

Yes, too bad your interpretation doesn't agree with the Committee's.

> I think that if you read more about the Committee's Rationale document and
> Defect Report resolutions, you'd quickly find something they said that would
> make you dismiss them as language lawyers, insane, or idiots. Have you ever
> bothered looking?
> 

Oh, I have.  And I hate to tell you, but I know a couple of the
Committee members.  They laugh at ideas like you promote.  They also
consider you an idiot.

I don't dismiss them as language lawyers.  They know what they're
talking about.  Unlike you.


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#94903

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2016-10-16 05:19 +0100
Message-ID<ntuv3a$im3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94900
Libels should not be allowed to pass without challenge.

On 16/10/16 03:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 10/15/2016 5:31 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
<snip>
>> I think that if you read more about the Committee's Rationale document and
>> Defect Report resolutions, you'd quickly find something they said that would
>> make you dismiss them as language lawyers, insane, or idiots. Have you ever
>> bothered looking?
>>
>
> Oh, I have.  And I hate to tell you, but I know a couple of the
> Committee members.

I don't believe that for a second. I can tell by the way you describe them.

> They laugh at ideas like you promote.  They also consider you an idiot.

That's not true either.

You see, I really genuinely am on speaking terms with several people 
(some people here may recall the initials PS, CF, DG) who, at the very 
least, /were/ on the ISO C Committee (I have no idea whether they still 
are), and /at least/ one who is still on the committee (LJ), so I know 
the kind of people they are. *None* of those people considers James 
Kuyper to be an idiot. Nor do they laugh at his ideas. They recognise 
him for the fellow expert he is.

If you had even the slightest shred of credibility, James Kuyper would 
be perfectly within his rights to sue you for libel. Fortunately for 
you, however, you don't have enough credibility for your bilious words 
to have any impact whatsoever on James's reputation.

> I don't dismiss them as language lawyers.  They know what they're
> talking about.

Yes, they do.

> Unlike you.

Pure bile.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#94924

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-10-16 08:37 -0400
Message-ID<ntvsaa$3q8$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#94903
On 10/16/2016 12:19 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Libels should not be allowed to pass without challenge.
> 
> On 16/10/16 03:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 10/15/2016 5:31 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
> <snip>
>>> I think that if you read more about the Committee's Rationale
>>> document and
>>> Defect Report resolutions, you'd quickly find something they said
>>> that would
>>> make you dismiss them as language lawyers, insane, or idiots. Have
>>> you ever
>>> bothered looking?
>>>
>>
>> Oh, I have.  And I hate to tell you, but I know a couple of the
>> Committee members.
> 
> I don't believe that for a second. I can tell by the way you describe them.
>

I don't give a damn what you think.

>> They laugh at ideas like you promote.  They also consider you an idiot.
> 
> That's not true either.
> 

As if you would know.

> You see, I really genuinely am on speaking terms with several people
> (some people here may recall the initials PS, CF, DG) who, at the very
> least, /were/ on the ISO C Committee (I have no idea whether they still
> are), and /at least/ one who is still on the committee (LJ), so I know
> the kind of people they are. *None* of those people considers James
> Kuyper to be an idiot. Nor do they laugh at his ideas. They recognise
> him for the fellow expert he is.
> 

So what?  You claim to know them, and talk to them, but don't even know
if they are Committee members?  You know nothing.

> If you had even the slightest shred of credibility, James Kuyper would
> be perfectly within his rights to sue you for libel. Fortunately for
> you, however, you don't have enough credibility for your bilious words
> to have any impact whatsoever on James's reputation.
> 

ROFLMAO!  You can't win a libel suit when someone spreads the truth.

>> I don't dismiss them as language lawyers.  They know what they're
>> talking about.
> 
> Yes, they do.
> 

You don't even know what a language lawyer is.  So much for your
respectability.

>> Unlike you.
> 
> Pure bile.
> 

Pure truth.  Too bad you don't like it.  But idiots and trolls never
like to be called what they are.  And you've proven yourself all too
many times.

You are a laughing stock of knowledgeable programmers.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#94928

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2016-10-16 17:59 +0100
Message-ID<nu0blb$op3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94924
On 16/10/16 13:37, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 10/16/2016 12:19 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> Libels should not be allowed to pass without challenge.
>>
>> On 16/10/16 03:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 10/15/2016 5:31 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>> I think that if you read more about the Committee's Rationale
>>>> document and
>>>> Defect Report resolutions, you'd quickly find something they said
>>>> that would
>>>> make you dismiss them as language lawyers, insane, or idiots. Have
>>>> you ever
>>>> bothered looking?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh, I have.  And I hate to tell you, but I know a couple of the
>>> Committee members.
>>
>> I don't believe that for a second. I can tell by the way you describe them.
>>
>
> I don't give a damn what you think.

Yes, I know. You really are a most unpleasant fellow, aren't you? But 
you don't give a damn about that, and you seem to think that makes it 
all right. Well, that's up to you.

>
>>> They laugh at ideas like you promote.  They also consider you an idiot.
>>
>> That's not true either.
>>
>
> As if you would know.

I do. I do not expect you to understand this.

>
>> You see, I really genuinely am on speaking terms with several people
>> (some people here may recall the initials PS, CF, DG) who, at the very
>> least, /were/ on the ISO C Committee (I have no idea whether they still
>> are), and /at least/ one who is still on the committee (LJ), so I know
>> the kind of people they are. *None* of those people considers James
>> Kuyper to be an idiot. Nor do they laugh at his ideas. They recognise
>> him for the fellow expert he is.
>>
>
> So what?  You claim to know them, and talk to them, but don't even know
> if they are Committee members?

Yes, that's almost right. I claimed to be on speaking terms with them, 
which means we have spoken in the past and got on well.

You see, I am not trying to exaggerate my acquaintance with these 
people. This refusal to exaggerate is called "honesty", a policy that I 
cannot recommend too highly.

The people whose initials I cited are committee members (or, possibly, 
former committee members, bar one) with whom I have been involved in 
Usenet discussions. PP is another that springs to mind. Many committee 
members who used to use Usenet have long since stopped doing so, which 
is why I don't know whether they are still on the ISO C Committee.

But I have communicated with them often enough in the past to know how 
they view people like James.

> You know nothing.

You say so.

>> If you had even the slightest shred of credibility, James Kuyper would
>> be perfectly within his rights to sue you for libel. Fortunately for
>> you, however, you don't have enough credibility for your bilious words
>> to have any impact whatsoever on James's reputation.
>>
>
> ROFLMAO!  You can't win a libel suit when someone spreads the truth.

Well, I'm no lawyer, but I would tend to agree with that claim; it does 
not, however, apply in the current discussion, because what you have 
said about James is not true. But neither can one win a libel suit if 
the libeller has no credibility. So you're still safe.

>>> I don't dismiss them as language lawyers.  They know what they're
>>> talking about.
>>
>> Yes, they do.
>
> You don't even know what a language lawyer is.  So much for your
> respectability.

I haven't claimed respectability, have I? I'll let others decide that.

>>> Unlike you.
>>
>> Pure bile.
>>
>
> Pure truth.  Too bad you don't like it.  But idiots and trolls never
> like to be called what they are.  And you've proven yourself all too
> many times.

Well, in the ten months or so that you've been posting here, I've proved 
you wrong on a number of occasions. If I really am an idiot and a troll, 
that must sting a bit for you.

> You are a laughing stock of knowledgeable programmers.

Possibly so. Again, I'll let others decide that. I'm not entirely sure 
that you qualify.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#94935

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-10-16 15:48 -0400
Message-ID<nu0lhr$tfs$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#94928
On 10/16/2016 12:59 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 16/10/16 13:37, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 10/16/2016 12:19 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> Libels should not be allowed to pass without challenge.
>>>
>>> On 16/10/16 03:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 10/15/2016 5:31 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>>> I think that if you read more about the Committee's Rationale
>>>>> document and
>>>>> Defect Report resolutions, you'd quickly find something they said
>>>>> that would
>>>>> make you dismiss them as language lawyers, insane, or idiots. Have
>>>>> you ever
>>>>> bothered looking?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I have.  And I hate to tell you, but I know a couple of the
>>>> Committee members.
>>>
>>> I don't believe that for a second. I can tell by the way you describe
>>> them.
>>>
>>
>> I don't give a damn what you think.
> 
> Yes, I know. You really are a most unpleasant fellow, aren't you? But
> you don't give a damn about that, and you seem to think that makes it
> all right. Well, that's up to you.
>

No, I don't give a damn what you think.  I learned many years ago there
are people in this world who are not worth caring about.  It just leads
to ulcers.  You are one of them.

>>
>>>> They laugh at ideas like you promote.  They also consider you an idiot.
>>>
>>> That's not true either.
>>>
>>
>> As if you would know.
> 
> I do. I do not expect you to understand this.
> 

Oh, I know the truth, Richard.  And some of your ideas on what the
Standard says or allows are totally laughable.

>>
>>> You see, I really genuinely am on speaking terms with several people
>>> (some people here may recall the initials PS, CF, DG) who, at the very
>>> least, /were/ on the ISO C Committee (I have no idea whether they still
>>> are), and /at least/ one who is still on the committee (LJ), so I know
>>> the kind of people they are. *None* of those people considers James
>>> Kuyper to be an idiot. Nor do they laugh at his ideas. They recognise
>>> him for the fellow expert he is.
>>>
>>
>> So what?  You claim to know them, and talk to them, but don't even know
>> if they are Committee members?
> 
> Yes, that's almost right. I claimed to be on speaking terms with them,
> which means we have spoken in the past and got on well.
> 

Yea, right.  So you spoke to them at a conference or similar, along with
hundreds of other people.

> You see, I am not trying to exaggerate my acquaintance with these
> people. This refusal to exaggerate is called "honesty", a policy that I
> cannot recommend too highly.
> 

I don't need to exaggerate anything.  The truth is the truth.  But you
seem to need to do that to prove your manhood, while calling me a liar.

It doesn't work.

> The people whose initials I cited are committee members (or, possibly,
> former committee members, bar one) with whom I have been involved in
> Usenet discussions. PP is another that springs to mind. Many committee
> members who used to use Usenet have long since stopped doing so, which
> is why I don't know whether they are still on the ISO C Committee.
> 

Yes, you bumped into them and said "Sorry" at a conference.

And BTW - many of those members STILL use usenet - just not public news
servers.  They use private ones to which you have no access.

> But I have communicated with them often enough in the past to know how
> they view people like James.
> 

ROFLMAO.  Right.

>> You know nothing.
> 
> You say so.
> 

Yep.

>>> If you had even the slightest shred of credibility, James Kuyper would
>>> be perfectly within his rights to sue you for libel. Fortunately for
>>> you, however, you don't have enough credibility for your bilious words
>>> to have any impact whatsoever on James's reputation.
>>>
>>
>> ROFLMAO!  You can't win a libel suit when someone spreads the truth.
> 
> Well, I'm no lawyer, but I would tend to agree with that claim; it does
> not, however, apply in the current discussion, because what you have
> said about James is not true. But neither can one win a libel suit if
> the libeller has no credibility. So you're still safe.
>

No, you're obviously not a lawyer.  You know as little about the law as
you do about C programming.  And I stand by everything I have said -
about both James and you.  And if necessary, I could prove it in court.
Go ahead and sue.  My countersuit would bankrupt you and you would never
get another job in programming.

>>>> I don't dismiss them as language lawyers.  They know what they're
>>>> talking about.
>>>
>>> Yes, they do.
>>
>> You don't even know what a language lawyer is.  So much for your
>> respectability.
> 
> I haven't claimed respectability, have I? I'll let others decide that.
> 

You keep thinking you are right.

>>>> Unlike you.
>>>
>>> Pure bile.
>>>
>>
>> Pure truth.  Too bad you don't like it.  But idiots and trolls never
>> like to be called what they are.  And you've proven yourself all too
>> many times.
> 
> Well, in the ten months or so that you've been posting here, I've proved
> you wrong on a number of occasions. If I really am an idiot and a troll,
> that must sting a bit for you.
> 

No, you've proved me wrong on nothing.  What you HAVE done is promote
absurd ideas what make you the laughing stock of people who actually
know the C standards.

>> You are a laughing stock of knowledgeable programmers.
> 
> Possibly so. Again, I'll let others decide that. I'm not entirely sure
> that you qualify.
> 

And once again, I don't give a damn what you think.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#94938

FromAnton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-17 00:27 +0300
Message-ID<20161017002720.4fbb22b9bb5d2ab193a0dae4@gmail.com>
In reply to#94935
Jerry Stuckle:

> No,  the  C  Standards committee people in general
> don't fool with public  newsgroups.   They've  run
> into  too  many  idiots  like those here and don't
> care to waste their time.  But they do  correspond
> on  private news servers, to which you have no ac-
> cess.

Nobody shall believe you unless  you  tell  us  what
those  "private  news servers" are, and you will not
because there are none.   The  way  you  counterpose
public  newsgrousps  and  private news servers shows
that you misunderstand the way  Usenet  works.   You
are cheap liar.

-- 
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#94939

From"James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2016-10-16 17:42 -0400
Message-ID<629923db-be42-4c89-17cd-d0416fed3dac@verizon.net>
In reply to#94938
On 10/16/2016 05:27 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle:
>
>> No,  the  C  Standards committee people in general
>> don't fool with public  newsgroups.   They've  run
>> into  too  many  idiots  like those here and don't
>> care to waste their time.  But they do  correspond
>> on  private news servers, to which you have no ac-
>> cess.
>
> Nobody shall believe you unless  you  tell  us  what
> those  "private  news servers" are, and you will not
> because there are none.   The  way  you  counterpose
> public  newsgrousps  and  private news servers shows
> that you misunderstand the way  Usenet  works.   You
> are cheap liar.

The C committee members who have posted to comp.lang.c or comp.std.c 
have revealed that the Committee does have it's own servers for enabling 
discussions between members that are inaccessible to non-members. I've 
never heard them referred to as news servers, however. They were always 
described as mailing lists, IIRC.

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#94958

FromAnton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com>
Date2016-10-17 10:23 +0300
Message-ID<20161017102334.564fc45ab76b76088bc62484@g{oogle}mail.com>
In reply to#94939
James R. Kuyper:
>Anton Shepelev:
>>Jerry Stuckle:
>>> No,  the  C  Standards committee people in general
>>> don't fool with public  newsgroups.   They've  run
>>> into  too  many  idiots  like those here and don't
>>> care to waste their time.  But they do  correspond
>>> on  private news servers, to which you have no ac-
>>> cess.
>>
>>Nobody shall believe you unless  you  tell  us  what
>>those  "private  news servers" are, and you will not
>>because there are none.   The  way  you  counterpose
>>public  newsgrousps  and  private news servers shows
>>that you misunderstand the way  Usenet  works.   You
>>are cheap liar.
>
>The   C   committee   members   who  have  posted  to
>comp.lang.c or comp.std.c have revealed that the Com-
>mittee  does  have it's own servers for enabling dis-
>cussions between members  that  are  inaccessible  to
>non-members.   I've  never  heard them referred to as
>news servers, however. They were always described  as
>mailing lists, IIRC.

Mailing list can be private, yes.  But they have noth-
ing to do with "news servers."

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#94971

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-10-17 09:07 -0400
Message-ID<nu2idh$5c5$2@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#94958
On 10/17/2016 3:23 AM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> James R. Kuyper:
>> Anton Shepelev:
>>> Jerry Stuckle:
>>>> No,  the  C  Standards committee people in general
>>>> don't fool with public  newsgroups.   They've  run
>>>> into  too  many  idiots  like those here and don't
>>>> care to waste their time.  But they do  correspond
>>>> on  private news servers, to which you have no ac-
>>>> cess.
>>>
>>> Nobody shall believe you unless  you  tell  us  what
>>> those  "private  news servers" are, and you will not
>>> because there are none.   The  way  you  counterpose
>>> public  newsgrousps  and  private news servers shows
>>> that you misunderstand the way  Usenet  works.   You
>>> are cheap liar.
>>
>> The   C   committee   members   who  have  posted  to
>> comp.lang.c or comp.std.c have revealed that the Com-
>> mittee  does  have it's own servers for enabling dis-
>> cussions between members  that  are  inaccessible  to
>> non-members.   I've  never  heard them referred to as
>> news servers, however. They were always described  as
>> mailing lists, IIRC.
> 
> Mailing list can be private, yes.  But they have noth-
> ing to do with "news servers."
> 

News servers can also be private.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#94942

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-10-16 18:28 -0400
Message-ID<nu0uua$sfp$1@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#94938
On 10/16/2016 5:27 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle:
> 
>> No,  the  C  Standards committee people in general
>> don't fool with public  newsgroups.   They've  run
>> into  too  many  idiots  like those here and don't
>> care to waste their time.  But they do  correspond
>> on  private news servers, to which you have no ac-
>> cess.
> 
> Nobody shall believe you unless  you  tell  us  what
> those  "private  news servers" are, and you will not
> because there are none.   The  way  you  counterpose
> public  newsgrousps  and  private news servers shows
> that you misunderstand the way  Usenet  works.   You
> are cheap liar.
> 

No, because they are PRIVATE.  And I don't give out PRIVATE information,
especially on a PUBLIC forum.

If they wanted you on them, someone on them would invite you.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#94978

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2016-10-17 10:08 -0400
Message-ID<nu2lvj$i30$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94938
On 10/16/2016 05:27 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
...
> because there are none.   The  way  you  counterpose
> public  newsgrousps  and  private news servers shows
> that you misunderstand the way  Usenet  works.  ...

I know from annoying personal experience that it's entirely possible to
have a private usenet news server. More than a decade ago, Goddard Space
Flight Center had a usenet news server which served many newsgroups that
were GSFC-specific - groups devoted to things like the campus store, the
yoga group, the day care center, employee notices, and the like.
Messages posted to those newsgroups were not propagated outward. That
same server also allowed us to read messages posted to a wide variety of
non-GSFC newsgroups. It even allowed us to post messages to those
groups. The annoying thing, which I didn't figure out until I'd already
posted a half-dozen messages to comp.std.c, was that messages posted to
non-GSFC groups didn't propagate outward, either - they were only
visible to people using the GSFC news server.
They shut down the news server many years ago, due to lack of interest.

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#94999

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2016-10-17 17:51 +0100
Message-ID<87r37edim6.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#94978
James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> writes:

> On 10/16/2016 05:27 PM, Anton Shepelev wrote:
> ...
>> because there are none.   The  way  you  counterpose
>> public  newsgrousps  and  private news servers shows
>> that you misunderstand the way  Usenet  works.  ...
>
> I know from annoying personal experience that it's entirely possible to
> have a private usenet news server. More than a decade ago, Goddard Space
> Flight Center had a usenet news server which served many newsgroups that
> were GSFC-specific - groups devoted to things like the campus store, the
> yoga group, the day care center, employee notices, and the like.

Every university at which I studied or worked had the same system,
although that was 15 years ago and they may well have died out now too.

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#95049

FromAnton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com>
Date2016-10-18 13:29 +0300
Message-ID<20161018132912.04f4ec7f091c56736fb34e1f@g{oogle}mail.com>
In reply to#94999
Gareth Owen:
>James Kuyper:
>>Anton Shepelev to Jerry Stuckle:
>>
>>>because  there are none.  The way you counterpose
>>>public newsgrousps and private news servers shows
>>>that you misunderstand the way Usenet works.  ...
>>
>>I know from annoying personal experience that it's
>>entirely possible to have a  private  usenet  news
>>server.   More  than  a  decade ago, Goddard Space
>>Flight Center  had  a  usenet  news  server  which
>>served  many  newsgroups  that  were  GSFC-specif-
>>ic -- groups devoted to  things  like  the  campus
>>store,  the  yoga  group, the day care center, em-
>>ployee notices, and the like.
>
>Every university at which I studied or  worked  had
>the same system, although that was 15 years ago and
>they may well have died out now too.

Is it perfectly allright for a  university  to  have
its  own news server with a set local newsgroups, as
long as it provides read and write access to  public
newsgroups as well.

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#95048

FromAnton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com>
Date2016-10-18 13:24 +0300
Message-ID<20161018132452.8bf1667e9bdd699ff201e5fd@g{oogle}mail.com>
In reply to#94978
James Kuyper:
>Anton Shepelev to Jerry Stuckle:
>
>>because  there  are none.  The way you counterpose
>>public newsgrousps and private news servers  shows
>>that you misunderstand the way Usenet works.  ...
>
>I  know from annoying personal experience that it's
>entirely possible to have  a  private  usenet  news
>server.   More  than  a  decade  ago, Goddard Space
>Flight Center had a usenet news server which served
>many  newsgroups  that were GSFC-specific -- groups
>devoted to things like the campus store,  the  yoga
>group,  the  day care center, employee notices, and
>the like.  Messages posted to those newsgroups were
>not propagated outward.

The  general  meaning  of "private news server" is a
server for a litmited group of  users,  which  still
provides access to the same newsgroups that are vis-
ible from any public server.  What you describe is a
private  server that hosts private newsgroups, which
cannot properly be called Usenet groups.

>That same server also allowed us to  read  messages
>posted  to  a  wide variety of non-GSFC newsgroups.
>It even  allowed  us  to  post  messages  to  those
>groups.   The annoying thing, which I didn't figure
>out until I'd already posted a half-dozen  messages
>to comp.std.c, was that messages posted to non-GSFC
>groups  didn't  propagate  outward,  either -- they
>were  only  visible  to  people using the GSFC news
>server.  They shut down the news server many  years
>ago, due to lack of interest.

A  most vexing configuration indeed, for it violated
what the programmers know as the principle of  least
astonishment.

P.S.: I  take  back my offence to Jerry.  It was his
      very rude behavior that made  me  feel  preju-
      diced about anything he wrote.

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#94929

From"James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2016-10-16 13:29 -0400
Message-ID<20a982bf-e1eb-1c09-db35-8f3c6671e1d3@verizon.net>
In reply to#94900
On 16/10/16 03:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 10/15/2016 5:31 PM, jameskuyper@verizon.net wrote:
<snip>
>> I think that if you read more about the Committee's Rationale document and
>> Defect Report resolutions, you'd quickly find something they said that would
>> make you dismiss them as language lawyers, insane, or idiots. Have you ever
>> bothered looking?
>>
>
> Oh, I have.  And I hate to tell you, but I know a couple of the
> Committee members.

I doubt that - primarily because of the way you characterize them below.

The comp.std.c and comp.lang.c newsgroups have frequently been monitored 
by members of the C committee, though I'm not sure whether any of them 
are still doing so. It's not easy to tell - it's not like they're 
required to add a line to their .sig identifying them as committee 
members. However, the ones I'm pretty sure of include Doug Gwyn*, Nick 
MacLaren*, Clive Feather*, Steve Clamage*, Peter Seebach* and Larry Jones*.
I don't know where I could find a comprehensive list of C committee 
members, current and past. However, all of the following people were 
either identified as the Submitter of a Defect Report numbered 400 or 
higher, with Source==WG14, or as the Source of a Defect Report with 
smaller numbers, with the Source field also containing XJ311; I believe 
that, in both cases, this means they are all committee members. The 
numbers following their names are the number of threads to which they 
contributed at least one message, on comp.std.c and comp.lang.c, 
respectively. These numbers are according to Google Groups, whose search 
result must always be treated with a certain amount of skepticism.

     Michael S. Ball 2/3 *
     Hans Boehm 5/41
     Stephen Clamage 238/253 *
     Robert Paul Corbett 106/21 *
     Paul Eggert 579/78 *
     Jens Gustedt 51/140 *
     Steve M. Hoxey 1/3
     Andrew Josey 4/4
     Derek M. Jones 43/8 *
     David Keaton 0/1
     Sam Kendall 3/6
     Philipp Klaus Krause 8/86 *
     Robbert Krebbers 10/0 *
     Shao Miller 135/646 *
     Walter J. Murray 87/68
     Joseph Myers 46/2 *
     Otto R. Newman 0/1
     Rich Peterson 0/1
     David F. Prosser 39/24
     Robert Seacord 8/12
     Fred J. Tydeman 103/12 *
     Neal Weidenhofer 0/6
     Freek Wiedijk 2/4

(Note on methodology: cross-posted messages were included in both 
counts. I left out the middle name or middle initial when performing 
searches. I otherwise made only a few changes from the names listed on 
the defect reports: Steven Clamage => Stephen Clamage,  Philip Klause 
Krause => Philipp Krause, and Robert Krebbers => Robbert Krebbers).

For every person whose name is marked above with an '*', I've posted at 
least one message mentioning their name, or vice versa, in the same 
newsgroup, according to Google Groups. In most cases, those were direct 
responses to each other's messages. Most of the people on that list that 
I never talked with predated my monitoring of those newsgroups. These 
are claims that, unlike yours, can easily be confirmed just by searching 
on Google Groups.

> They laugh at ideas like you promote.  They also consider you an idiot.

I seriously doubt that; that's completely inconsistent with the tone of 
my discussions with any of the Committee members mentioned above.

In general, if I'm discussing an issue with someone, it's because we 
have a difference of opinion about that issue. However, that doesn't 
require that we're in complete disagreement about everything. Whenever 
I've talked with C Committee members, the discussions were generally 
polite and respectful - the least polite discussions I remember were 
those with Doug Gwyn, but they were still far more polite than yours. 
Unlike you, the worst insult that any of them used to describe me was 
"pedant", which I don't consider particularly insulting. They usually 
conceded most of the premises of my arguments (including many premises 
you've rejected as ridiculous) even if they disagreed with my final 
conclusion, and on many occasions, they would end up conceding my final 
conclusion as well (even Doug has done that a few times). Sometimes I 
would concede their argument, instead - those concessions form a part of 
my current understanding of C, including many of the things I believe 
that you consider most ridiculous.
All of this can be confirmed by anyone who's interested by searching 
Google Groups.

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#94930

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2016-10-16 18:36 +0100
Message-ID<nu0dpu$1br$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#94929
On 16/10/16 18:29, James R. Kuyper wrote:

<snip>

> Whenever
> I've talked with C Committee members, the discussions were generally
> polite and respectful -

Likewise.

> the least polite discussions I remember were
> those with Doug Gwyn, but they were still far more polite than yours.

In the interactions I've had with Doug Gwyn (and there have been 
several), I have always found him to be unfailingly polite. I recall 
that in one discussion he was positively complimentary!

> Unlike you, the worst insult that any of them used to describe me was
> "pedant", which I don't consider particularly insulting.

I have always wondered whether, when intended as a pejorative, it should 
be spelled 'peddant'. :-)

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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