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Groups > comp.lang.c > #98113 > unrolled thread

"Let’s Stop Bashing C"

Started byLynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>
First post2016-12-05 19:57 -0600
Last post2016-12-06 12:06 +0800
Articles 11 on this page of 131 — 25 participants

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Contents

  "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 19:57 -0600
    Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 02:34 +0000
      Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 00:13 -0600
        Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-06 23:15 +0000
          Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-06 21:16 -0600
      Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 11:54 +0000
      Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-06 12:07 +0000
        Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 12:25 +0000
          Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-06 14:07 +0100
            Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 13:40 +0000
          Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-06 19:40 +0100
            Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-06 13:55 -0500
              Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 19:13 +0000
                Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-06 11:51 -0800
                  Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 12:22 -0800
              Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-06 20:16 +0100
              Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 11:20 -0800
                Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-06 22:15 +0100
                  Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-06 16:49 -0500
                    Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 14:24 -0800
                      Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 00:07 +0100
                        Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-07 22:04 +0100
                          Re: micro-architectural details jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 23:44 +0100
                            Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-07 23:02 +0000
                              Re: micro-architectural details Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 15:28 -0800
                            Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 21:36 +0100
                              Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 12:56 -0800
                                Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:03 +0100
                                  Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 14:21 -0800
                                    Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:36 +0100
                              Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-08 21:59 +0000
                                Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:25 +0100
                                  Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 14:34 -0800
                                    Re: micro-architectural details Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-08 23:59 +0100
                                      Re: micro-architectural details Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-12-09 00:18 +0100
                                        Re: micro-architectural details fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 00:06 -0800
                                      Re: micro-architectural details jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2016-12-09 11:35 +0000
                                        Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-09 12:12 +0000
                                        Re: micro-architectural details David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 13:33 +0100
                                          Re: micro-architectural details Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-12-09 15:41 -0800
                                        Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-10 09:28 -0800
                                          Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-10 09:58 -0800
                                            Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 22:53 -0800
                                          Re: micro-architectural details Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-11 03:10 -0600
                                            Re: micro-architectural details jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2016-12-11 13:48 +0000
                                              Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-11 14:43 +0000
                                                Re: micro-architectural details Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-11 16:23 +0000
                                                  Re: micro-architectural details Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-11 12:53 -0800
                                                    Re: micro-architectural details Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-11 21:27 +0000
                                                Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-11 08:46 -0800
                                                  Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 21:14 -0800
                                                    Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-15 08:25 -0800
                                                Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-14 21:11 -0800
                                                  Re: micro-architectural details BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-12-15 14:28 +0000
                                              Re: micro-architectural details David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-11 18:38 +0100
                                            Re: micro-architectural details Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-12-15 00:25 -0800
                                      Re: micro-architectural details supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-09 07:42 -0800
                                        Re: micro-architectural details Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-09 11:54 -0800
                                  Re: micro-architectural details David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 10:27 +0100
                                Re: other missing features (no-brainers) Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-09 17:05 +0100
                            Re: micro-architectural details jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2016-12-09 09:51 +0000
                      Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-06 20:42 -0500
                  Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 14:16 -0800
                    Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 00:31 +0100
                      Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-06 15:55 -0800
                        Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 01:01 +0100
                      Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-06 16:42 -0800
                        Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 01:55 +0100
                          Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 07:11 -0800
                  Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-12-06 23:05 +0000
                    Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 00:43 +0100
                      Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 03:06 +0000
                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 11:47 +0100
                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 03:10 -0800
                            Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2016-12-07 03:13 -0800
                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-07 11:47 +0000
                            Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-07 12:08 +0000
                              Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-07 23:45 +0100
                                Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 00:22 +0100
                                  Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 15:32 -0800
                                    Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 01:25 +0100
                                      Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 16:36 -0800
                                      Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 17:09 -0800
                                        Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 10:28 +0100
                                          Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-08 08:34 -0800
                                            Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 20:08 +0000
                                  Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 10:24 +0100
                                    Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 15:49 +0100
                                      Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 15:23 +0000
                                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 16:58 +0100
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 18:57 +0000
                                      Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-08 15:29 +0000
                                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 17:09 +0100
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-08 16:41 +0000
                                      Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 17:04 +0100
                                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 17:15 +0100
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-08 11:34 -0500
                                            Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 18:40 +0100
                                              Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 10:00 -0800
                                            Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-12-08 19:05 +0000
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 19:58 +0100
                                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 08:22 -0800
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 20:12 +0100
                                            Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 11:40 -0800
                                            Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 02:44 -0600
                                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-08 16:22 +0000
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 20:14 +0100
                                      Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-10 02:19 -0600
                                    Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 07:44 -0800
                                      Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-08 22:05 +0100
                                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-08 22:14 +0100
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 10:39 +0100
                                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-08 13:33 -0800
                                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-12-09 11:13 +0100
                            Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-07 06:27 -0600
                              Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-12-07 07:17 -0800
                                Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-07 23:43 -0600
                      Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-12-07 07:41 +0000
                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 11:45 +0100
                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 09:22 -0800
                        Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2016-12-07 11:49 +0100
                          Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C" Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-07 09:28 -0500
              Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C" "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-12-06 14:22 -0500
              Re: Subject field encoding Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-07 21:40 +0100
                Re: Subject field encoding Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-12-07 13:01 -0800
                Re: Subject field encoding Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2016-12-07 16:02 -0500
              Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C" asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2016-12-08 15:50 -0800
            Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 19:07 +0000
      Re: "Let€™s Stop Bashing C" Xcott Craver <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-12-07 16:48 -0500
        Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C" Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-07 23:29 +0100
    Re: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 12:06 +0800

Page 7 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]


#98241 — Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C"

Fromjacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>
Date2016-12-07 11:49 +0100
SubjectRe: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C"
Message-ID<o28pds$lhj$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98235
Le 07/12/2016 à 08:41, Ike Naar a écrit :
> I don't see how one could efficiently
> "test the overflow flag"

Who cares about efficiency here? If an exception occurs, it means it 
will be very slow, as always. But that happens only when there is an 
overflow, the normal pathway is almost identical since the trap 
generating instructions and the normal instructions are very similar in 
execution time in the normal (no overflow) case.

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#98258 — Re: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C"

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2016-12-07 09:28 -0500
SubjectRe: "Lete2??s Stop Bashing C"
Message-ID<o29676$vli$2@jstuckle.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#98241
On 12/7/2016 5:49 AM, jacobnavia wrote:
> Le 07/12/2016 à 08:41, Ike Naar a écrit :
>> I don't see how one could efficiently
>> "test the overflow flag"
> 
> Who cares about efficiency here? If an exception occurs, it means it
> will be very slow, as always. But that happens only when there is an
> overflow, the normal pathway is almost identical since the trap
> generating instructions and the normal instructions are very similar in
> execution time in the normal (no overflow) case.
> 

*almost identical* is the key.  Add one test here, another there -
pretty soon you're testing all kinds of things and C becomes as slow and
bloated as other languages.

You're the programmer.  If overflow is important to you, you need to
check for it.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#98200 — Re: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C"

From"James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2016-12-06 14:22 -0500
SubjectRe: "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C"
Message-ID<3794ad29-2617-1fc1-3666-78a3ae585623@verizon.net>
In reply to#98193
On 12/06/2016 01:55 PM, Lew Pitcher wrote:
> On Tuesday December 6 2016 13:40, in comp.lang.c, "jacobnavia"
> <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
>
>> Le 06/12/2016 à 13:25, Richard Heathfield a écrit :
>>> What's the point? You're wasting your time complaining about something
>>> you can't change (and, if you did change it, it would no longer be the
>>> thing you need, in which case you'd have sawn off the branch you were
>>> sitting on).
...
>> Your opinion is that C should remain frozen with Turbo C's language.
>
> I have yet to see Richard Heathfield claim /that/ opinion. Again, you need to
> cite your source, or retract your claim.

While he has not said that about Turbo C, he has said it about C90, at 
least as far as his own use of the language is concerned. 
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.c/kN6JDgiENDw/a6gDrCMEnK4J>

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#98294 — Re: Subject field encoding

FromNoob <root@127.0.0.1>
Date2016-12-07 21:40 +0100
SubjectRe: Subject field encoding
Message-ID<o29s2e$ibr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98193
Lew,

Your news client changed the Subject field:

from

  Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=

to

  Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C"

Is that correct?

My own news client displays that as
"Lete2��s Stop Bashing C"
which looks wrong.

Regards.

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#98295 — Re: Subject field encoding

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2016-12-07 13:01 -0800
SubjectRe: Subject field encoding
Message-ID<lnr35j1miu.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#98294
Noob <root@127.0.0.1> writes:
> Lew,
>
> Your news client changed the Subject field:
>
> from
>
>   Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=
>
> to
>
>   Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C"
>
> Is that correct?
>
> My own news client displays that as
> "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C"
> which looks wrong.

The original article in the thread had this subject header:
    Subject: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldOKAmXMgU3RvcCBCYXNoaW5nIEMi?=
which my newsreader displays as:
    Subject: "Let’s Stop Bashing C" 
where the apostrophe is a RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK character, U+2019.

Some newsreaders have problems with encoded non-ASCII characters.
There's not a lot we can do about it, other than manually editing
the characters as needed.  (When I posted a followup in this thread,
I changed the U+2019 character to an ASCII apostrophe.)

(I've had similar problems with the word "écrit", which appears
in jacob's attribution lines.  This is not a complaint; this stuff
*should* work transparently.)

Now let's see if my newsreader will let me post this.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#98296 — Re: Subject field encoding

FromLew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca>
Date2016-12-07 16:02 -0500
SubjectRe: Subject field encoding
Message-ID<o29tab$m9u$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98294
On Wednesday December 7 2016 15:40, in comp.lang.c, "Noob" <root@127.0.0.1>
wrote:

> Lew,
> 
> Your news client changed the Subject field:
> 
> from
> 
>   Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=
> 
> to
> 
>   Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C"
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> My own news client displays that as
> "Lete2��s Stop Bashing C"
> which looks wrong.

Looking at the thread in total, it appears that a number of news clients have
similar problems with the original Subject: line.

Lynn McGuire's original post was headed
  Message-ID: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
  Subject: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldOKAmXMgU3RvcCBCYXNoaW5nIEMi?=

and Richard Heathfield's reply to that message had
  Message-ID: <o25823$ufe$1@dont-email.me>
  References: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
  Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=

Later, Jacob Navia posted
  Message-ID: <o270js$b8g$1@dont-email.me>
  References: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
              <o25823$ufe$1@dont-email.me>
              <o269kh$kna$1@dont-email.me>
              <o26am1$o34$1@dont-email.me>
  Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_=22Let=e2=80=99s_Stop_Bashing_C=22?=
which I replied to with
  Message-ID: <o271gi$ejv$1@dont-email.me>
  References: <o255ru$p1n$1@dont-email.me>
              <o25823$ufe$1@dont-email.me>
              <o269kh$kna$1@dont-email.me>
              <o26am1$o34$1@dont-email.me>
              <o270js$b8g$1@dont-email.me>
  Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?IkxldGUygJlz?= Stop Bashing C"

It doesn't look like something I can fix.

-- 
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"
PGP public key available upon request

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#98433 — Re: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C"

Fromasetofsymbols@gmail.com
Date2016-12-08 15:50 -0800
SubjectRe: "Lete2�™s Stop Bashing C"
Message-ID<5f780719-39ba-4a37-badb-90571c186c4f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#98193
For what i have seen in 'big number float' or big int is need carry flag...

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#98194

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2016-12-06 19:07 +0000
Message-ID<o2726v$hhb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98191
On 06/12/16 18:40, jacobnavia wrote:
> Le 06/12/2016 à 13:25, Richard Heathfield a écrit :
>> What's the point? You're wasting your time complaining about something
>> you can't change (and, if you did change it, it would no longer be the
>> thing you need, in which case you'd have sawn off the branch you were
>> sitting on).
>
> C can't test for overflow.

Well, it sort of can. But if you mean that there is no provision in 
standard C to test a CPU's flags, you're right. C doesn't require the 
CPU to have flags to test.

> Most software in C is not prepared to deal
> with overflow.

When it's important that overflow should not happen and plausible that 
it might, one would hope that the programmer would take appropriate 
steps to ensure that it doesn't happen. I will grant you that in most 
circumstances this isn't a consideration, but that may well be because 
in most circumstances overflow isn't terribly likely.

> lcc-win proposes a pseudo-function called overflow() that will give you
> the value of the overflow flag.

Implementations are free to provide extensions.

> Did "Navia's C" as you call it,

Did I? I may have done. I don't remember calling it that, though.

> get heavy and full of unnecessary
> features because lcc-win programmers can easily test overflow???

I don't know. I don't use lcc-win.

> Your opinion is that C should remain frozen with Turbo C's language.

To be more precise, my opinion is that any implementation is free to 
provide any extensions it wishes and, as long as it still correctly 
translates correct programs, it remains a C compiler.

> I absolutely do not agree with that

It's an odd position. You are free to implement a new feature every ten 
minutes if that's what you want to do. What do you have against people 
who would prefer /not/ to use those features?

Given a language X, we have a certain well-defined set of features and 
constructs. If that language is successful, the label 'X' will come to 
be associated with those features and constructs. If someone now comes 
along with a new feature, Y, they have three choices: (a) get the 
definition of X changed to incorporate Y (in which case the well-defined 
set of features and constructs that was formerly called X now has no 
name); or (b) provide an implementation of X that includes Y as an 
extension; or (c) create a new language with a new name, a language that 
incorporates Y right from the start.

Choice (a) seems to be the one you'd prefer, but it is the only one that 
inconveniences anyone! Choice (b) is what most implementors do, and 
occasionally someone such as, say, Stroustrup will choose (c).

I don't see the value of constantly changing the definition of the 
language. I /do/ see the value of innovation, but... well, let's take 
the bicycle. Someone decides it would be really cool to add an engine. 
Fine! Great! Fantastic! But why call the resulting product a bicycle? 
Why, for example, lobby to have the definition of "bicycle" changed so 
that an engine is now /required/? There are people who prefer to push 
the pedals around for themselves. Why steal their word and, eventually, 
obsolesce their machine? Why not come up instead with a new word, such 
as, oh, "motorcycle", to describe the vastly superior new product that 
you have designed?

If you want C-with-overflow-detection, that's fantastic news and I, for 
one, will stand awed and amazed at your innovative creativity. But 
please forgive me if I don't get too enthusiastic about using your 
innovation myself. I'll carry on using C, because I know it works 
everywhere. And the reason it works everywhere is that, although the ISO 
C committee keep buggering about with it, they can't bugger about with 
it quickly enough to matter, and to be fair to them they also have the 
good sense to protect the existing code base from changes that are too 
wide-ranging and dramatic.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#98302 — Re: "Let€™s Stop Bashing C"

FromXcott Craver <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2016-12-07 16:48 -0500
SubjectRe: "Let€™s Stop Bashing C"
Message-ID<o2a00b$11b$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98115
On 2016-12-06 02:34:57 +0000, Richard Heathfield said:

> If you (and, Lynn, I am using "you" in the generic sense here, not 
> targeting you personally!) --- I was saying, if you don't like either 
> of those, that's absolutely fine. So use something different. But 
> what's the point of using something that's pretty much the same as the 
> thing you don't like?


Excellent point.  If I'm going to learn a new programming language, it 
had better be different enough from C that it offers something I don't 
already have with C.

Actually, the ideal non-C language would be something with very 
different features, but which also interfaces so well with C code that 
I can swap between two languages when writing a single program, 
choosing whatever is best for each component.

In that respect I am a big fan of Tcl, because it cleanly interfaces 
with C and lets me write C functions for all the compute-intensive or 
byte-level stuff, and lets me roll my own data structures for the C 
side of things---but then I can write in Tcl for the UI, event and 
exception handling, files strings and sockets and servers and 
metaprogramming.


-- 
==
"Taking jokes seriously is the exact mirror activity of laughing if 
someone says they have cancer." --jbou 

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#98312 — Re: "Let's Stop Bashing C"

FromNoob <root@127.0.0.1>
Date2016-12-07 23:29 +0100
SubjectRe: "Let's Stop Bashing C"
Message-ID<o2a2dp$93e$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98302
On 07/12/2016 22:48, Xcott Craver wrote:

> Excellent point.  If I'm going to learn a new programming language, it 
> had better be different enough from C that it offers something I don't 
> already have with C.
> 
> Actually, the ideal non-C language would be something with very 
> different features, but which also interfaces so well with C code that 
> I can swap between two languages when writing a single program, 
> choosing whatever is best for each component.
> 
> In that respect I am a big fan of Tcl, because it cleanly interfaces 
> with C and lets me write C functions for all the compute-intensive or 
> byte-level stuff, and lets me roll my own data structures for the C 
> side of things---but then I can write in Tcl for the UI, event and 
> exception handling, files strings and sockets and servers and 
> metaprogramming.

The question is:

Can you program underhandedly in pickle?

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#98119

From"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>
Date2016-12-06 12:06 +0800
Message-ID<o25def$44d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#98113
On 6/12/2016 9:57 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "Let’s Stop Bashing C"
>    http://h2co3.org/blog/index.php/2016/12/01/lets-stop-bashing-c/

I think the BASH shell was and is written in C. :)

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