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Groups > comp.lang.c > #138239 > unrolled thread

_mingw_off_t.h

Started bybart4858@gmail.com
First post2018-11-25 14:38 -0800
Last post2018-11-26 14:38 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 179 — 20 participants

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  _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-25 14:38 -0800
    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 03:19 -0800
      Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-26 12:48 +0100
      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-26 13:29 +0000
        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2018-11-26 22:02 +0800
          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-26 16:09 +0000
          Re: _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-26 09:11 -0800
        Re: _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-26 06:34 -0800
        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 06:39 -0800
          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-26 16:06 +0000
            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 09:01 -0800
              Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-26 17:04 +0000
                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 09:19 -0800
                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-26 22:19 +0100
                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 14:11 -0800
                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 00:29 +0000
                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-11-27 09:44 +0000
                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 01:49 -0800
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 04:21 -0800
                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 04:25 -0800
                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-27 04:51 -0800
                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-11-27 13:19 +0000
                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-11-26 17:26 -0800
                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 08:16 +0100
                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-27 04:18 -0800
                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 04:48 -0800
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-27 05:09 -0800
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 14:39 +0100
                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 05:54 -0800
                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 15:28 +0100
                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 06:58 -0800
                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 15:03 +0000
                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 07:13 -0800
                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 16:55 +0100
                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 09:02 -0800
                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 17:11 +0000
                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 09:17 -0800
                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 17:48 +0000
                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-27 20:35 +0000
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-28 15:42 +1300
                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 02:44 -0800
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-28 23:52 +1300
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 03:42 -0800
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-11-28 15:48 +0300
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 05:24 -0800
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-11-28 17:30 +0300
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-28 13:59 +0100
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 05:33 -0800
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-28 14:31 +0000
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-28 23:19 +0100
                                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 01:35 -0800
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-29 13:25 +0100
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-28 14:28 +0000
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-11-28 17:33 +0300
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 06:56 -0800
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 11:53 +0000
                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 12:09 +0000
                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 01:26 -0800
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-11-28 02:57 -0800
                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-11-27 09:49 -0800
                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-11-27 11:31 -0800
                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 20:34 +0000
                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 22:45 +0100
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 14:12 +0000
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-11-27 11:32 -0800
                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 14:36 +0100
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-27 14:45 +0000
                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 15:02 +0000
                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 16:29 +0100
                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 15:51 +0000
                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-27 16:00 +0000
                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-27 23:40 +0100
                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 01:22 +0000
                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-28 15:57 +1300
                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-28 08:29 +0100
                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 11:38 +0000
                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-11-28 16:02 +0300
                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 13:35 +0000
                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-28 08:14 -0600
                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-28 13:33 +0000
                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 14:25 +0000
                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-28 15:25 +0100
                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 15:06 +0000
                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-28 07:43 -0800
                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-28 15:49 +0000
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-11-28 08:16 -0800
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 17:56 +0000
                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-28 23:27 +0100
                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-28 20:12 +0000
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-11-29 09:58 -0800
                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-29 13:04 +0100
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-29 12:41 +0000
                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-11-29 08:19 -0500
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-29 14:28 +0000
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-11-29 22:25 -0500
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-30 11:59 +0000
                                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-11-30 08:02 -0500
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-30 14:09 +0000
                                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-11-30 10:30 -0500
                                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-30 16:02 +0000
                                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-11-30 16:40 +0000
                                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-30 17:23 +0000
                                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-12-01 07:47 -0800
                                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-12-01 13:46 -0500
                                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-12-01 12:08 -0800
                                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-02 12:57 +0100
                                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-12-02 16:21 +0000
                                                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-02 20:42 +0100
                                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-12-02 22:04 +0000
                                                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-02 23:49 +0100
                                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-11-30 16:35 +0300
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-30 14:19 +0000
                                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-30 14:58 +0000
                                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-11-30 10:33 -0500
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-30 15:45 +0100
                                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-30 14:22 +0000
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-30 15:20 +0000
                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-29 14:54 +0100
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-29 06:03 -0800
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-29 16:09 +0100
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-29 16:44 +0000
                                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-29 22:08 +0100
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-29 22:29 +0000
                                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-30 10:27 +0100
                                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-11-30 01:49 -0800
                                                                  "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-01 08:18 +0000
                                                                    Re: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-01 18:02 +0100
                                                                      That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-01 17:31 +0000
                                                                        Re: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-02 13:03 +0100
                                                                          Re: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-12-02 23:05 -0500
                                                                            Re: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-03 11:38 +0100
                                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-30 02:00 -0800
                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-30 08:16 +1300
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-29 20:49 +0000
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-30 19:39 +1300
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-11-30 10:37 +0000
                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-30 20:21 +0000
                                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-30 20:23 +0000
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-01 10:13 +1300
                                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-30 22:14 +0000
                                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-01 11:29 +1300
                                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-11-30 18:32 -0500
                                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-30 23:47 +0000
                                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-01 18:05 +0100
                                                                        Re: _mingw_off_t.h Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-12-01 13:29 -0500
                                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-12-01 07:28 -0800
                                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-01 16:49 +0000
                                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-11-29 08:53 +1300
                                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-28 20:01 +0000
                                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-28 21:15 +0000
                                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-28 21:26 +0000
                                                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-29 00:22 +0000
                                                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-29 14:14 +0000
                                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-29 14:54 +0000
                                      Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-28 14:19 +0000
                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-11-27 16:44 -0600
                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2018-11-29 22:58 +0000
                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-30 00:58 +0000
                          Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-27 14:11 +0000
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 06:28 -0800
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-27 15:14 +0000
                              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-27 07:41 -0800
                                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-11-27 16:11 +0000
                            Re: _mingw_off_t.h Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-11-29 10:00 -0800
              Re: _mingw_off_t.h Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-11-26 17:24 +0000
                Re: _mingw_off_t.h Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-11-26 10:57 -0800
                  Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-26 19:06 +0000
                    Re: _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-26 12:16 -0800
    Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-26 12:52 +0100
      Re: _mingw_off_t.h bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-26 04:17 -0800
        Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-26 14:40 +0100
      What is wrong with this sentence? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-11-26 13:34 +0000
        Re: What is wrong with this sentence? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h) Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-11-26 16:39 +0300
          Re: What is wrong with this sentence? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h) bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-11-26 06:13 -0800
            Re: What is wrong with this sentence? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-26 16:13 +0100
        Re: What is wrong with this sentence? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-26 14:42 +0100
      Re: _mingw_off_t.h Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-11-26 13:02 -0800
        Re: _mingw_off_t.h David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-11-26 22:24 +0100
    Re: _mingw_off_t.h scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-11-26 14:38 +0000

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#138402

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-11-29 16:44 +0000
Message-ID<pHULD.270090$Do.54119@fx31.am4>
In reply to#138400
On 29/11/2018 15:09, David Brown wrote:

> Some people see problems everywhere they look.

Yes, that is why there is progress, because people want to make 
something better. And why many people have jobs in order to work on a 
new product that solves problems with the old one.

(The downside is getting unwelcome software updates every five minutes.)

   Other people see
> opportunities, choices, and flexibility.  Listening to you and Bart is
> depressing - you are like two geriatrics in an old-folks home,
> complaining about the youth of today.

One of my moans is about needless complexity. This is apparently not 
something you would ever complain about, and certain not for aesthetic 
reasons, provided you can throw enough resources, tools and computing 
power (ie. even more complexity and thus ultimately making things worse) 
to be able to brush it under the carpet.

However, other people have different views.

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#138411

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2018-11-29 22:08 +0100
Message-ID<ptpkgs$nid$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#138402
On 29/11/2018 17:44, Bart wrote:
> On 29/11/2018 15:09, David Brown wrote:
> 
>> Some people see problems everywhere they look.
> 
> Yes, that is why there is progress, because people want to make 
> something better. And why many people have jobs in order to work on a 
> new product that solves problems with the old one.
> 

Progress is made by people finding /real/ opportunities for improvement. 
  Throwing your toys out of the pram because you see a typedef you don't 
see as necessary is not progress.  "Fixing" things that are not broken 
and don't need changing is not progress.

Writing a new language can be progress.  Moaning about an existing 
language that other people use quite happily and successfully is not 
progress.  Can't you see the difference?

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#138412

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-11-29 22:29 +0000
Message-ID<XKZLD.36479$V_4.7025@fx02.am4>
In reply to#138411
On 29/11/2018 21:08, David Brown wrote:
> On 29/11/2018 17:44, Bart wrote:
>> On 29/11/2018 15:09, David Brown wrote:
>>
>>> Some people see problems everywhere they look.
>>
>> Yes, that is why there is progress, because people want to make 
>> something better. And why many people have jobs in order to work on a 
>> new product that solves problems with the old one.
>>
> 
> Progress is made by people finding /real/ opportunities for improvement. 
>   Throwing your toys out of the pram because you see a typedef you don't 
> see as necessary is not progress.  "Fixing" things that are not broken 
> and don't need changing is not progress.
> 
> Writing a new language can be progress.  Moaning about an existing 
> language that other people use quite happily and successfully is not 
> progress.  Can't you see the difference?
> 

Seed7 is a newish language. It relies heavily on C. But it's source 
codes come with SEVENTEEN different makefiles, and that's only for the 
compilers it's known to work with.

Four of those compilers make use of 'off64_t', which is found in the 
_mingw_off_t.h header that is the subject of the thread.

In fact, the author actually posted about it being so challenging to 
build across compilers, that succeeding in doing would be a good test 
exercise.

My dependency on C for new languages is considerably less, and mainly 
comes up when trying to use C library APIs (or getting my C compiler to 
work with a difficult C project).

So to me, such untidy workings of C and its implementations are 
impediments to progress. For example, having to find an alternative to 
'off64_t', which requires me to know what it actually is. For that test, 
guessing int64 seemed to suffice. But you shouldn't need to guess. Or 
even better, it needn't exist in the first place.

I can see that you're never going to get it, being too immersed in C, 
and rarely working on the edges of it or trying to use aspects of it 
from other languages, especially your own languages.

-----------------

Any new language, unless you are also writing a new OS, all-new 
libraries for everything, and even hardware (as Rick seems to be doing), 
will necessary have to work with existing APIs.

Those APIs tend to be described using C. And that code tends to be make 
too much use of abstract types which are never fully explained, because 
you are expected to use them from a Compiler (with 1000+ headers), or 
browse the headers with a C-aware tool, or somehow track them down.

Everything is C, C, C, when all you want to know is that a particular 
type is int32 on this and int64 on that. (Until you find out that a 
whole raft of functions aren't functions, but macros, so they will only 
work from C.)

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#138421

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2018-11-30 10:27 +0100
Message-ID<ptqvpk$utq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#138412
On 29/11/18 23:29, Bart wrote:
> On 29/11/2018 21:08, David Brown wrote:
>> On 29/11/2018 17:44, Bart wrote:
>>> On 29/11/2018 15:09, David Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some people see problems everywhere they look.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is why there is progress, because people want to make
>>> something better. And why many people have jobs in order to work on a
>>> new product that solves problems with the old one.
>>>
>>
>> Progress is made by people finding /real/ opportunities for
>> improvement.   Throwing your toys out of the pram because you see a
>> typedef you don't see as necessary is not progress.  "Fixing" things
>> that are not broken and don't need changing is not progress.
>>
>> Writing a new language can be progress.  Moaning about an existing
>> language that other people use quite happily and successfully is not
>> progress.  Can't you see the difference?
>>
> 
> Seed7 is a newish language. It relies heavily on C. But it's source
> codes come with SEVENTEEN different makefiles, and that's only for the
> compilers it's known to work with.
> 

So what?

You still don't understand what's important here.  It does not matter if
there are lots of makefiles.  (And remember, Seed7 is not really a
programming language - as far as I can tell, it is primarily a tool for
comparing and testing C compilers.)

Let's think of a real language - Python, Go, Java, etc.  What fraction
of actual /users/ of these languages compile the tools themselves?  0.1%
?  0.01% ?  Of those, what fraction are interested in using a compiler
other than the biggest choices - gcc, MSVC, clang, perhaps icc?  Maybe
1%, mostly because some real Unix users like to use their system
compilers from IBM, HP, Sun, etc.  And of the people compiling these
language tools, what fraction are going to bother looking at the
makefiles and config files, rather than just following the "./configure
&& make && make install" recipes given in the documentation of tools?  1% ?

So, for people who want to use a programming language, we are now down
to perhaps one in a million who will even /notice/ how the build process
is put together and what files it uses.


Who /does/ care about the makefiles and the build process?  I'd say
three classes of people.

First, there are the people who do regularly compile the tools.  That
would be the people developing the language, compilers, translators,
VM's, etc.  It would also be third-party people working on extensions or
low-level modules for the language.  They care that the build process
works with common development tools (no tcc, lcc-win, etc., in sight),
they care that the build process is reliable, and they care that it is
efficient.  They don't care how the makefiles are made, or what build
process is used - if the documentation says builds are done with CMake
and Ninja, then they install CMake and Ninja without concern.

Secondly, there are the people who maintain the build process.  They
care that it is easy to maintain and adapt as needed.  They don't care
if there are more files than strictly needed, or larger files - unless
that means more work for themselves.

Then there are the people who look at the build processes themselves -
for fun, for interest, for learning, for testing other parts of the
process (like compilers), or to find new things to complain about.

<snip>

> Everything is C, C, C, when all you want to know is that a particular
> type is int32 on this and int64 on that. (Until you find out that a
> whole raft of functions aren't functions, but macros, so they will only
> work from C.)

You really have two choices here.  You can learn C properly, learn to
understand why it has the features it has, and how to use them, and how
other people use them.  Or you can drop your whole "compile to C" idea
and just use different programming languages that suit you better.  Have
your translator target Pascal, or Rust, or Occaml - anything but C.

Translating to "C as you think it should be" and complaining endlessly
is not really getting you anywhere.

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#138422

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2018-11-30 01:49 -0800
Message-ID<ln8t1aopxq.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#138421
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
[...]
>                               (And remember, Seed7 is not really a
> programming language - as far as I can tell, it is primarily a tool for
> comparing and testing C compilers.)

No, it's a programming language.

http://seed7.sourceforge.net/

    Seed7 is a general purpose programming language designed by Thomas
    Mertes. It is a higher level language compared to Ada, C/C++ and
    Java. The Seed7 interpreter and the example programs are open-source
    software. There is also an open-source Seed7 compiler. The compiler
    translates Seed7 programs to C programs which are subsequently
    compiled to machine code.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Will write code for food.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#138459 — "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)

Fromgazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Date2018-12-01 08:18 +0000
Subject"real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)
Message-ID<pttg3s$srs$2@news.xmission.com>
In reply to#138422
In article <ln8t1aopxq.fsf@kst-u.example.com>,
Keith Thompson  <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>[...]
>>                               (And remember, Seed7 is not really a
>> programming language - as far as I can tell, it is primarily a tool for
>> comparing and testing C compilers.)
>
>No, it's a programming language.
>
>http://seed7.sourceforge.net/
...

I think it is pretty cleat that DB was just being (gratuitously) insulting.
(I.e., of course Seed7 is a programming langauge, and DB knows that,
obviously)

Personally, I don't think Python (one of DB's faves) is a "real"
programming language, despite its solid adoption by a certain well known
SBC product.

My understading is that Python, like Pascal, was another "teaching
langauge" (i.e., one not intended to actually be implemented or used in any
serious way) that, like Pascal, somehow escaped the classroom  and people
started using it even though they should not have done so.

-- 
Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from demanding more
flag burning laws, more abortion  laws, more drug laws, more obscenity
laws, and more police authority  to make warrantless arrests to remind
us that we need to "get the government off our backs".

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#138467 — Re: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2018-12-01 18:02 +0100
SubjectRe: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h)
Message-ID<ptuern$qne$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#138459
On 01/12/2018 09:18, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <ln8t1aopxq.fsf@kst-u.example.com>,
> Keith Thompson  <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> [...]
>>>                                (And remember, Seed7 is not really a
>>> programming language - as far as I can tell, it is primarily a tool for
>>> comparing and testing C compilers.)
>>
>> No, it's a programming language.
>>
>> http://seed7.sourceforge.net/
> ...
> 
> I think it is pretty cleat that DB was just being (gratuitously) insulting.
> (I.e., of course Seed7 is a programming langauge, and DB knows that,
> obviously)

Actually, I was not, and Keith was being helpful in informing me.  I 
have only heard of Seed7 in this newsgroup, and it seems to turn up 
regularly in terms of testing C compilers and building it in various 
ways.  But of course this is a very biased view of Seed7 due to the 
people posting about it here and the aspects of Seed7 that are relevant 
in this newsgroup.  If anyone felt insulted about my comments, then I 
apologise.

> 
> Personally, I don't think Python (one of DB's faves) is a "real"
> programming language, despite its solid adoption by a certain well known
> SBC product.

I am not sure of any way to classify programming languages as "real" or 
not which would exclude Python from the "real" group.

(Yes, Python is a language I use a fair amount.  My programming covers a 
wide span of tasks, including things for which C is the only practical 
choice to things for which C would be an insane choice.  For high-level 
tasks, it is not often that Python is the only sensible option, but it 
is convenient for me.)

> 
> My understading is that Python, like Pascal, was another "teaching
> langauge" (i.e., one not intended to actually be implemented or used in any
> serious way) that, like Pascal, somehow escaped the classroom  and people
> started using it even though they should not have done so.
> 

Your understanding is wrong.  And even if it were right, Python has 
undergone a great deal of change from the days in which it was a simple, 
limited language suitable for just small scripts.

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#138469 — That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))

Fromgazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Date2018-12-01 17:31 +0000
SubjectThat time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))
Message-ID<ptugi8$g1h$1@news.xmission.com>
In reply to#138467
In article <ptuern$qne$1@dont-email.me>,
David Brown  <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
...
>> I think it is pretty cleat that DB was just being (gratuitously) insulting.
>> (I.e., of course Seed7 is a programming langauge, and DB knows that,
>> obviously)
>
>Actually, I was not, and Keith was being helpful in informing me.  I 

There was that time, back in 1987, I think it was, when someone asserted
that someone else was being insulting and that other person responded that,
yes, he was being insulting, and then apologized for being insulting.

Hasn't happened since, of course...

-- 
1/20/17: A great day for all those people who are sick of being told
they don't know how to spell "you're" (or "there").

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#138479 — Re: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2018-12-02 13:03 +0100
SubjectRe: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))
Message-ID<pu0hlu$b3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#138469
On 01/12/2018 18:31, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <ptuern$qne$1@dont-email.me>,
> David Brown  <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> ...
>>> I think it is pretty cleat that DB was just being (gratuitously) insulting.
>>> (I.e., of course Seed7 is a programming langauge, and DB knows that,
>>> obviously)
>>
>> Actually, I was not, and Keith was being helpful in informing me.  I
> 
> There was that time, back in 1987, I think it was, when someone asserted
> that someone else was being insulting and that other person responded that,
> yes, he was being insulting, and then apologized for being insulting.
> 
> Hasn't happened since, of course...
> 

If I had been intentionally and /gratuitously/ insulting, I would have 
apologised unconditionally.  When I write something that might have been 
interpreted as an insult I did not intend, then I apologise 
conditionally.  I don't believe I am alone in that attitude, and have 
seen it more than once on Usenet (though not as often as one might hope).

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#138488 — Re: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2018-12-02 23:05 -0500
SubjectRe: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))
Message-ID<pu2a29$8hb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#138479
On 12/2/18 07:03, David Brown wrote:
> On 01/12/2018 18:31, Kenny McCormack wrote:
...
>> There was that time, back in 1987, I think it was, when someone asserted
>> that someone else was being insulting and that other person responded that,
>> yes, he was being insulting, and then apologized for being insulting.
>>
>> Hasn't happened since, of course...
>>
> 
> If I had been intentionally and /gratuitously/ insulting, I would have 
> apologised unconditionally.  When I write something that might have been 
> interpreted as an insult I did not intend, then I apologise 
> conditionally.  I don't believe I am alone in that attitude, and have 
> seen it more than once on Usenet (though not as often as one might hope).
> 

I find that odd. If I intentionally insult someone, it's because I feel
that the insult is deserved and is being made in an appropriate context
- for instance, if I insult them by calling them a liar because I have
observed them lying, and the lies they've told occurred in the same
forum where I issued that insult. I would only issue an apology if I
decided that I'd been wrong about those facts - I wouldn't apologize
just because it was an insult. If you can insult someone by telling a
truth about them without doing so in a vulgar or misleading fashion,
then the fact that it's an insult is not, in itself, sufficient reason
to avoid speaking that truth.

On the other hand, I would unconditionally apologize for any
unintentional insult as soon as I realized that it was an insult. Note:
something that is clearly not an insult, but gets taken as such by
someone else misunderstanding me, is not an "accidental insult" in this
sense. I would say "I'm sorry you misunderstood me" - but the presence
of "I'm sorry" in that sentence doesn't make it an apology.

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#138489 — Re: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2018-12-03 11:38 +0100
SubjectRe: That time back in 1987... (Was: "real" programming langauges? (Was: _mingw_off_t.h))
Message-ID<pu312d$io4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#138488
On 03/12/18 05:05, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 12/2/18 07:03, David Brown wrote:
>> On 01/12/2018 18:31, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> ...
>>> There was that time, back in 1987, I think it was, when someone asserted
>>> that someone else was being insulting and that other person responded that,
>>> yes, he was being insulting, and then apologized for being insulting.
>>>
>>> Hasn't happened since, of course...
>>>
>>
>> If I had been intentionally and /gratuitously/ insulting, I would have 
>> apologised unconditionally.  When I write something that might have been 
>> interpreted as an insult I did not intend, then I apologise 
>> conditionally.  I don't believe I am alone in that attitude, and have 
>> seen it more than once on Usenet (though not as often as one might hope).
>>
> 
> I find that odd. If I intentionally insult someone, it's because I feel
> that the insult is deserved and is being made in an appropriate context
> - for instance, if I insult them by calling them a liar because I have
> observed them lying, and the lies they've told occurred in the same
> forum where I issued that insult.

I said "intentionally and /gratuitously/ insulting".  An intentional
insult is not something to be made lightly - it only needs an apology if
it was a mistake.  That is why I said "gratuitously" - such as an insult
made in anger, regretted later.

> I would only issue an apology if I
> decided that I'd been wrong about those facts - I wouldn't apologize
> just because it was an insult. If you can insult someone by telling a
> truth about them without doing so in a vulgar or misleading fashion,
> then the fact that it's an insult is not, in itself, sufficient reason
> to avoid speaking that truth.

Agreed.

> 
> On the other hand, I would unconditionally apologize for any
> unintentional insult as soon as I realized that it was an insult. Note:
> something that is clearly not an insult, but gets taken as such by
> someone else misunderstanding me, is not an "accidental insult" in this
> sense. I would say "I'm sorry you misunderstood me" - but the presence
> of "I'm sorry" in that sentence doesn't make it an apology.
> 

I think you are using different phrasing to mean much the same as me -
the details of how much of an insult is accidentally implied, and how
much is accidentally inferred, make such cases a grey area.

Sorry if I was unclear here, or if you misunderstood me :-)

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#138423

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2018-11-30 02:00 -0800
Message-ID<f6c0cf38-bb03-4411-b731-e751f6300717@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#138421
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 9:27:25 AM UTC, David Brown wrote:
>
> Then there are the people who look at the build processes themselves -
> for fun, for interest, for learning, for testing other parts of the
> process (like compilers), or to find new things to complain about.
> 
Or for taking parts or the whole of the language to incorporate into
a new project.

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#138409

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-11-30 08:16 +1300
Message-ID<g6as7tF8pfgU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#138392
On 30/11/2018 01:41, Bart wrote:
> On 29/11/2018 12:04, David Brown wrote:
>> On 28/11/18 16:06, Bart wrote:
>>
>>> Any 'yes' answers would indicate that there /is/ a problem. You are just
>>> refusing to admit it, and refusing to admit I might have a point.
> 
>   > There is no /problem/ - certainly not with C or Linux.
> 
> So when Java, C#, Rust, Go, Scala and D all decided to forego C's
> treatment of types in favour of considerably more compact and
> well-defined schemes, it wasn't because there was any problem at all
> with C's approach.

They also decided to forego C's flexibility and limit them selves to a 
small set of platforms.  Go on an M16C?

> I'm glad we sorted that out...

Me too.

-- 
Ian.

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#138410

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-11-29 20:49 +0000
Message-ID<lhYLD.669567$aw7.508974@fx04.am4>
In reply to#138409
On 29/11/2018 19:16, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 30/11/2018 01:41, Bart wrote:
>> On 29/11/2018 12:04, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 28/11/18 16:06, Bart wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any 'yes' answers would indicate that there /is/ a problem. You are 
>>>> just
>>>> refusing to admit it, and refusing to admit I might have a point.
>>
>>   > There is no /problem/ - certainly not with C or Linux.
>>
>> So when Java, C#, Rust, Go, Scala and D all decided to forego C's
>> treatment of types in favour of considerably more compact and
>> well-defined schemes, it wasn't because there was any problem at all
>> with C's approach.
> 
> They also decided to forego C's flexibility and limit them selves to a 
> small set of platforms.  Go on an M16C?

What are you saying, that any program, by virtue of being written in C 
(even a Go compiler) will automatically work on an M16C? And presumably 
any device for which a C compiler is available.

In reality, you write applications for one class of hardware or another, 
not usually both.

Those languages have acknowledged that, by targeting one class of 
hardware, allowing them to streamline their design.

C on the other hand refuses to draw any such line, and insists on a 
single language that works in both camps.

 > They also decided to forego C's flexibility

You don't see the irony there? In that it is those languages that can 
adapt themselves to be a close fit to that second class of hardware, 
while C still doesn't know if char is signed or unsigned.

(Since M16C seems to have 8/16-bit capability, that can still fit into 
the 8/16/32/64 model which is the target of those languages. Any 
difficulties with 32/64-bit operations will be the same with C. So in 
theory, versions of D etc could be made to work, if anyone had the 
inclination.

So you might have chosen a better example to show C's superiority.)

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#138420

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-11-30 19:39 +1300
Message-ID<g6c48oF8pfgU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#138410
On 30/11/2018 09:49, Bart wrote:
> On 29/11/2018 19:16, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 30/11/2018 01:41, Bart wrote >>>
>>> So when Java, C#, Rust, Go, Scala and D all decided to forego C's
>>> treatment of types in favour of considerably more compact and
>>> well-defined schemes, it wasn't because there was any problem at all
>>> with C's approach.
>>
>> They also decided to forego C's flexibility and limit them selves to a
>> small set of platforms.  Go on an M16C?
> 
> What are you saying, that any program, by virtue of being written in C
> (even a Go compiler) will automatically work on an M16C? And presumably
> any device for which a C compiler is available.

What I am saying is any program I write for an M16C or smaller micro can 
be built an run on my desktop.  C's abstract types will take care of the 
architectural differences.

> In reality, you write applications for one class of hardware or another,
> not usually both.

In reality, code (at least C code) is often written to run on a wide 
range of hardware.  If I was writing code just for a desktop or sever, I 
probably wouldn't be using C...

> Those languages have acknowledged that, by targeting one class of
> hardware, allowing them to streamline their design.
> 
> C on the other hand refuses to draw any such line, and insists on a
> single language that works in both camps.

With good reason.

>   > They also decided to forego C's flexibility
> 
> You don't see the irony there? 

No, because there isn't any.

-- 
Ian.

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#138424

Fromgazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
Date2018-11-30 10:37 +0000
Message-ID<ptr3sq$efc$1@news.xmission.com>
In reply to#138420
In article <g6c48oF8pfgU2@mid.individual.net>,
Ian Collins  <ian-news@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
>> You don't see the irony there? 
>
>No, because there isn't any.

Because I don't see it, it doesn't exist.

-- 
Which of these is the crazier bit of right wing lunacy?
1) We've just had another mass shooting; now is not the time to be talking about gun control.

2) We've just had a massive hurricane; now is not the time to be talking about climate change.

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#138444

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-11-30 20:21 +0000
Message-ID<5ZgMD.763652$wF4.41204@fx27.am4>
In reply to#138420
On 30/11/2018 06:39, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 30/11/2018 09:49, Bart wrote:

>> In reality, you write applications for one class of hardware or another,
>> not usually both.
> 
> In reality, code (at least C code) is often written to run on a wide 
> range of hardware.  If I was writing code just for a desktop or sever, I 
> probably wouldn't be using C...

So you don't think there's enough people using C on 64-bit desktop-class 
computers to warrant having a streamlined, tidied-up language for those 
machines?

(And you presumably don't think that having produced such a product for 
8/16/32/64-bit machines, that that baggage-free language couldn't then 
be adapted downwards to 8/16-bit devices.)

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#138445

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2018-11-30 20:23 +0000
Message-ID<c%gMD.841160$ZJ2.783076@fx33.iad>
In reply to#138444
Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>On 30/11/2018 06:39, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 30/11/2018 09:49, Bart wrote:
>
>>> In reality, you write applications for one class of hardware or another,
>>> not usually both.
>> 
>> In reality, code (at least C code) is often written to run on a wide 
>> range of hardware.  If I was writing code just for a desktop or sever, I 
>> probably wouldn't be using C...
>
>So you don't think there's enough people using C on 64-bit desktop-class 
>computers to warrant having a streamlined, tidied-up language for those 
>machines?

He didn't say that, and if I were him, I'd be offended at your blatent
misrepresentation.

You truely are trolling.

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#138448

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-12-01 10:13 +1300
Message-ID<g6dngjF8pfgU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#138445
On 01/12/2018 09:23, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>> On 30/11/2018 06:39, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> On 30/11/2018 09:49, Bart wrote:
>>
>>>> In reality, you write applications for one class of hardware or another,
>>>> not usually both.
>>>
>>> In reality, code (at least C code) is often written to run on a wide
>>> range of hardware.  If I was writing code just for a desktop or sever, I
>>> probably wouldn't be using C...
>>
>> So you don't think there's enough people using C on 64-bit desktop-class
>> computers to warrant having a streamlined, tidied-up language for those
>> machines?

See the part of my reply you snipped.

> He didn't say that, and if I were him, I'd be offended at your blatent
> misrepresentation.
> 
> You truely are trolling.

Indeed.

-- 
Ian.

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#138450

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-11-30 22:14 +0000
Message-ID<4DiMD.763656$wF4.275234@fx27.am4>
In reply to#138448
On 30/11/2018 21:13, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 01/12/2018 09:23, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>> On 30/11/2018 06:39, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>> On 30/11/2018 09:49, Bart wrote:
>>>
>>>>> In reality, you write applications for one class of hardware or 
>>>>> another,
>>>>> not usually both.
>>>>
>>>> In reality, code (at least C code) is often written to run on a wide
>>>> range of hardware.  If I was writing code just for a desktop or 
>>>> sever, I
>>>> probably wouldn't be using C...
>>>
>>> So you don't think there's enough people using C on 64-bit desktop-class
>>> computers to warrant having a streamlined, tidied-up language for those
>>> machines?
> 
> See the part of my reply you snipped.

These are the parts I snipped:

 > What I am saying is any program I write for an M16C or smaller micro
 > can be built an run on my desktop. C's abstract types will take care
 > of the architectural differences.

 > With good reason.

 > No, because there isn't any.

I assume you mean that more substantial quote. That still seems to me as 
though you are dismissing the idea of a PC version of C.

Note that that doesn't mean losing classic C; you can still use that for 
microprocessors, and those programs might still work on PCs (some of 
them anyway).

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