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Groups > comp.lang.c > #129666 > unrolled thread

Need some help getting to my feet

Started byDan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
First post2018-04-24 13:39 +0000
Last post2018-04-27 00:23 -0700
Articles 11 on this page of 131 — 31 participants

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  Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-24 13:39 +0000
    Re: Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-24 16:38 +0100
      Re: Need some help getting to my feet Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-24 13:40 -0400
    Re: Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-24 08:38 -0700
      [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-24 18:06 +0000
        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-25 07:33 -0700
          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 07:49 -0700
          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-25 21:28 +0000
            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-04-28 14:26 +0000
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-28 20:25 +0000
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-04-29 15:12 +0000
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-29 16:49 +0100
                    Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-04-30 15:30 +0000
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 17:06 +0100
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 09:12 -0700
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-05-02 15:19 +0100
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 07:54 -0700
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:45 +0000
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-05-05 14:22 +0000
                          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 08:42 -0700
                          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-05-07 16:34 +0100
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 09:37 -0700
                    Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-04 10:19 +0200
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 11:31 +0100
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 08:53 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 18:14 -0700
        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 08:54 -0700
          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 09:24 -0700
            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 18:10 +0100
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 10:48 -0700
              Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-25 19:23 +0000
                Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Bruce S <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 16:55 -0600
                  Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 16:03 -0700
                    Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Bruce S <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 18:02 -0600
                      Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 17:14 -0700
                        Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Bruce S <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 13:31 -0600
                  Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-26 03:27 +0000
                  Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-26 11:06 +0000
            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet 1alvinalbrecht1@gmail.com - 2018-04-25 18:41 -0700
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 07:26 -0700
          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 16:26 +0000
          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-25 21:50 +0100
            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 01:47 -0700
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 02:18 -0700
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-26 11:18 +0100
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 11:33 +0100
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 05:26 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-27 00:09 +0100
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 09:14 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 10:26 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-27 00:02 +0100
                    Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 02:35 -0700
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-27 11:34 +0100
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-04-27 04:14 -0700
                        STDIO.H vs stdio.h (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-27 13:08 +0000
                          Re: STDIO.H vs stdio.h (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-04-27 18:52 +0200
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 07:08 -0700
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 10:36 -0700
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 19:04 +0100
                          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 11:26 -0700
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-27 18:45 +0000
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 03:43 -0700
                          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-30 09:10 -0700
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 23:32 -0700
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 07:33 -0700
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2018-04-26 08:38 -0700
        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-04-27 03:30 -0700
          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 08:41 -0700
          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-27 17:04 +0000
            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 11:06 -0700
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-27 20:15 +0000
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 13:47 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 22:06 +0100
                    Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 14:51 -0700
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-28 00:25 +0100
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 17:23 -0700
                          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-28 01:39 +0100
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 19:22 -0700
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-04 10:36 +0200
                          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 11:21 +0100
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 04:03 -0700
                              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-04 14:03 +0200
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:19 -0700
                              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 11:00 -0700
                                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-05 18:39 +0200
                                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 16:23 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-28 12:11 +0000
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 14:12 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-28 12:21 +0000
              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-04 13:31 +0000
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 17:19 -0700
                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-05-18 21:55 -0700
                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-21 03:26 -0700
                    Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-06-14 03:00 -0700
                      Mixing declarations and statements in C code (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-26 06:43 +0000
                    Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-12-26 19:02 +0300
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-12-31 18:01 +0000
                      Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-12-31 17:16 -0500
                        Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-31 22:44 +0000
                          Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2019-01-01 19:14 +0000
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 13:14 -0700
                              Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-01 12:49 -0800
                                Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 15:55 -0700
                                  Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-01 16:05 -0800
                                    Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 22:17 -0700
                            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-01 20:25 +0000
            Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-04 11:48 +0000
    Re: Need some help getting to my feet Ed Kellett <e@kellett.im> - 2018-04-24 16:40 +0100
      Re: Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 11:01 -0700
    Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-24 15:50 +0000
      Re: Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 17:21 +0000
    Re: Need some help getting to my feet Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-24 13:20 -0400
      Re: Need some help getting to my feet Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-24 13:30 -0400
    Re: Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 17:42 +0000
      Re: Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-24 18:26 +0000
        Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-25 19:19 +0000
          Re: Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-25 21:30 +0000
            Re: Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 22:55 +0100
            Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-27 08:49 +0000
      Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-25 15:37 +0000
        Re: Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 09:27 -0700
          Re: Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-04-26 13:22 +0200
            Re: Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 09:21 -0700
            Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-27 08:16 +0000
              Re: Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 09:36 -0700
                Re: Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-04 10:41 +0200
        Re: Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 14:27 +0000
    Re: Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-24 11:09 -0700
      Re: Need some help getting to my feet C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-04-25 18:59 +0100
        Re: Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 10:42 -0700
          Re: Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 00:23 -0700

Page 7 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]


#129726

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2018-04-25 09:27 -0700
Message-ID<ln1sf3i74g.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#129719
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
> On Tue, 2018-04-24, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> ...
>> The attitude that C++ is the obvious next step after C is one that often
>> appears on this group too
[...]
> There are many useful languages, but no others have that much in
> common with C.

Objective-C does.  If I recall correctly, it's 100% backward compatible
with C.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#129797

FromWouter Verhelst <w@uter.be>
Date2018-04-26 13:22 +0200
Message-ID<0dp8re-ivv.ln1@gangtai.grep.be>
In reply to#129726
On 25-04-18 18:27, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
>> On Tue, 2018-04-24, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>> ...
>>> The attitude that C++ is the obvious next step after C is one that often
>>> appears on this group too
> [...]
>> There are many useful languages, but no others have that much in
>> common with C.
> 
> Objective-C does.  If I recall correctly, it's 100% backward compatible
> with C.

Yes; in contrast to C++, Objective-C is a strict superset of C. Any
valid C program is also a valid Objective-C program.

Most of the changes/additions that Objective-C implements are situated
in the runtime, which explains why there's also an Objective-C++ (but
no, that's not a good idea ;-)

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#129801

FromSteven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-26 09:21 -0700
Message-ID<52b7b4ff-7649-4ca8-b160-e382d1075a0a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#129797
On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 9:08:09 AM UTC-7, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On 25-04-18 18:27, Keith Thompson wrote:
> > Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
> >> On Tue, 2018-04-24, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> >> ...
> >>> The attitude that C++ is the obvious next step after C is one that often
> >>> appears on this group too
> > [...]
> >> There are many useful languages, but no others have that much in
> >> common with C.
> > 
> > Objective-C does.  If I recall correctly, it's 100% backward compatible
> > with C.
> 
> Yes; in contrast to C++, Objective-C is a strict superset of C. Any
> valid C program is also a valid Objective-C program.
> 
> Most of the changes/additions that Objective-C implements are situated
> in the runtime, which explains why there's also an Objective-C++ (but
> no, that's not a good idea ;-)



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

If you call getting your ass *kicked hard* left and right every single day by numerous people (and completely trashing your reputation and any reason for anyone to trust anything you have to say - forever) 'trolling', then yeah... he was a good troll. I don't personally subscribe to that definition, I use another term, I call that person a total idiot.

> He's lost that ability. Probably too many bad drugs.

He's toned down all the zillions of narcissistic, BS threads he used to create but he's really not much different in the honesty dept. He just uses socks more now to create those threads. Not that there weren't already plenty of reasons to suspect this ridiculous sock as coming from Snit but this thread shows that he's slipping in this respect:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.os.linux.advocacy/cTXTtY57SjM/n9mXLZpIVXoJ

I was being given GPG info and help by owl and we were both pretty much ignoring Snit all the way through. So who appears, who hadn't posted in a couple of days and then only posted to that thread on that day after Snit got tired of being ignored?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org

iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJVQ7iBAAoJEC03b6bOr/+dy+oQAM9++szzdDB6V8/Sdc4b2Yyh
8MmaCOi3l1OgD5lzRTXo1Uf5uNUVV7v5IMPVxepyuGzp1Bzmoo5z53eOXo+aRYiS
i88RxYdZ9BtVIMu9YAbWn4cA4zco/LWlMyjXl454iYDkjNYr2gK6lrJdtnVLd+cO
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KKN/922K3FgXFcajy4/ms+kDJLrkziVXtRmCrRnNne1UqBdZA2dK68cnbhMOpWef
qM6IivdLmVVFVUinY3KZDzb4HK+NMQaKoRNthPGaYcXYhZ/d6SIDJIqfJBEWpqLj
dBM7V4u+4e2lOHyZjXDocbqdXpUMt4iemvWhWdFF3Hfaph2axCv1MXXdzXWbtten
UdiwjIshGgn3UrHm6+SDaTKiwsUO0cDOF2k2f/qmd0Hq+KWzfuNWvq+bwl+BzXsR
cldN67X+5odUyWP9ZP0mFjAqtXQVIGNc30uexrFuj4/RQ5KByhSvjA8jvGtWlGvU
7sRJL9WUx7uDcoRdDwG1U71qesKu5wSlcEA+RX5G1PnSjKx8wZs6RNM5eLSmpW/N
/yGXzy5GKBgC3jjkuNktdzA3jq8Jhn8FKKcZi9s3vFT52FNqkEL0yd099wrVJSRQ
NQK+zVtGRZz2Ds4oN0VK
=6BdZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
One Smart Penny
http://www.5z8.info/warez_w2t4ge_girlsgonewildpart1.wmv
https://www.facebook.com/JonasEklundh
Jonas Eklundh

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#129843

FromJorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
Date2018-04-27 08:16 +0000
Message-ID<slrnpe5n32.31ka.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>
In reply to#129797
On Thu, 2018-04-26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On 25-04-18 18:27, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
>>> On Tue, 2018-04-24, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> The attitude that C++ is the obvious next step after C is one that often
>>>> appears on this group too
>> [...]
>>> There are many useful languages, but no others have that much in
>>> common with C.
>> 
>> Objective-C does.  If I recall correctly, it's 100% backward compatible
>> with C.
>
> Yes; in contrast to C++, Objective-C is a strict superset of C. Any
> valid C program is also a valid Objective-C program.

But isn't it the case that once you use the Objective-C features,
you deviate wildly from the C tradition?

I know very little about ObjC. That's why I didn't bring it up as an
exception -- that and my impression that it's a niche language.

> Most of the changes/additions that Objective-C implements are situated
> in the runtime, which explains why there's also an Objective-C++ (but
> no, that's not a good idea ;-)

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#129860

FromTim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2018-04-27 09:36 -0700
Message-ID<kfn1sf0mws9.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu>
In reply to#129843
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:

> On Thu, 2018-04-26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>
>> On 25-04-18 18:27, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2018-04-24, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> The attitude that C++ is the obvious next step after C is one
>>>>> that often appears on this group too
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> There are many useful languages, but no others have that much
>>>> in common with C.
>>>
>>> Objective-C does.  If I recall correctly, it's 100% backward
>>> compatible with C.
>>
>> Yes; in contrast to C++, Objective-C is a strict superset of C.
>> Any valid C program is also a valid Objective-C program.
>
> But isn't it the case that once you use the Objective-C features,
> you deviate wildly from the C tradition?

I think that depends a lot on what one considers "deviate wildly"
to mean.  

> I know very little about ObjC.  That's why I didn't bring it up as
> an exception

Objective-C might be termed a hybrid of C and Smalltalk.
Function definitions are written in C syntax, with an additional
expressional form for Smalltalk-style messaging.  Any individual
function can be written in a pure C style, or a pure Smalltalk
style, or a mixture of the two.  Class definitions are of course
written using extended syntax, with C-like function definitions
for methods.

Disclaimer:  I learned Objective-C many years ago, when it first
came out, but I don't remember doing any actual programming in
it.  I think the descriptions above are right but there may be
some important details I've forgotten.

> -- that and my impression that it's a niche language.

Objective-C was used by NeXT for NeXTSTEP.

Objective-C was the main programming language at Apple, for OS X
and iOS, and also for application development, before they
changed to Swift.

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#130126

FromWouter Verhelst <w@uter.be>
Date2018-05-04 10:41 +0200
Message-ID<utitre-fea.ln1@gangtai.grep.be>
In reply to#129860
On 27-04-18 18:36, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes:
>> I know very little about ObjC.  That's why I didn't bring it up as
>> an exception
> 
> Objective-C might be termed a hybrid of C and Smalltalk.
> Function definitions are written in C syntax, with an additional
> expressional form for Smalltalk-style messaging.  Any individual
> function can be written in a pure C style, or a pure Smalltalk
> style, or a mixture of the two.  Class definitions are of course
> written using extended syntax, with C-like function definitions
> for methods.

Yes, exactly. It always feels a bit like a split-brain system to me. You
have the C library and runtime, and then there's the Objective-C runtime
bolted on top of it. It's pretty weird, IMO.

> Disclaimer:  I learned Objective-C many years ago, when it first
> came out, but I don't remember doing any actual programming in
> it.

I did some reasonably recently for a cross-platform project.

>  I think the descriptions above are right but there may be
> some important details I've forgotten.
> 
>> -- that and my impression that it's a niche language.
> 
> Objective-C was used by NeXT for NeXTSTEP.
> 
> Objective-C was the main programming language at Apple, for OS X
> and iOS, and also for application development, before they
> changed to Swift.

Which still uses the Objective-C runtime and its concepts; and if you
want to connect non-swift code to your swift project, the preferred way
of doing that is to use Objective-C.

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#129900

FromSpiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-28 14:27 +0000
Message-ID<GtUpf0ToQrvdEABWNWqhBgLuj0eGq@bongo-ra.co>
In reply to#129719
On 25 Apr 2018 15:37:36 GMT
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-04-24, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> ...
> > The attitude that C++ is the obvious next step after C is one that often
> > appears on this group too
> 
> Like in my reply elsewhere in the thread (although I think I wrote
> it's "not terrible advise", and wouldn't have mentioned it at all,
> if the OP hadn't brought it up).
> 
> > and I think it's an unfortunate one because it's
> > entirely arbitrary. C++ is simply one of many languages one can learn after C
> > and whether it's the best option depends on one's reason for starting
> > programming and what their next steps are going to be.
> 
> It's not arbitrary; C++ keeps most of what's interesting about C:

What's interesting about a language is subjective and therefore arbitrary.
The implied criterion here , namely "choose a different language than C but
keep most of 'what's interesting about C' " is also arbitrary. To the extent
that one is considering a different language , perhaps they want to expand
their programming horizons as much as possible and so want a whole new set of
"interesting" features i.e. different than what C has.

> - the APIs

I don't know what an API of a programming language is. I know what it means
for a library or an operating system and some other stuff but not for a
language.

> - the object model (things can live on the stack or in the heap)

Whether things get allocated on the stack or the heap is an implementation
issue and not part of the definition of C. You are also using the term
"object model" in an unusual manner , usually it means the way the OOP
interface and facilities of a language work , if it has support for OOP.

> - the static typing

Why is static typing more interesting than dynamic typing or some combination
of the two ?

> - the toolchains

That's too vague and is not even necessarily part of a language. But I would
imagine that a compiler counts as an important part of the toolchain and
there exist C compilers which aren't C++ compilers so I don't think this is
accurate.

> There are many useful languages, but no others have that much in
> common with C.

Again the implied criterion is "different language than C but has as much in
common with C as possible". If the context of the discussion does not mention
a criterion then the choice of this specific one is arbitrary. Here are other
criteria which one might use :

1. Close to the metal and minimalistic : Forth , various assembly languages.
2. Close to the metal and has infrastructure to add notation to the code to
   allow appropriate tools to construct a proof of correctness : Ada.
3. Given that C has a preprocessor , one might want a language with as powerful
   metaprogramming facilities as possible : Common Lisp.
4. As different as possible from C to expand one's horizons : Haskell , Prolog.
5. Wants to send patches for some open source project : whatever language the
   project is written in (projects written in C won't accept patches which
   require a C++ compiler regardless of how close the 2 languages are).
6. Hopes to get a job with some company : whatever language(s) the company
   uses. For example here is a list of companies using OCaml :
   http://ocaml.org/learn/companies.html
7. Central to Unix infrastructure and programming environment : some shell , AWK .

In the list above I'm not claiming that all the languages I give are
necessarily those which most closely match the respective criteria but they
match them more closely than C++ .

-- 
vlaho.ninja/prog

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#129679

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2018-04-24 11:09 -0700
Message-ID<lna7tsiih6.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#129666
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
> Hope this isn't too far off the mark for this group -- long story short,
> I'm trying to get back into C programming after not having touched it in
> nearly a decade (since university -- and barely passing, as I recall).
>
> Most of what I'm getting from Google is some variant of "use C++"
> (blogs, random "articles" that're probably trying to sell something,
> etc.). I did come across the clc-wiki.net "C Tutorial" the other night
> as a potential source to get my wits about me.
>
> The only thing is that tutorial mentions that it is "not a replacement
> for a good C book".  I didn't happen to notice any examples of "a good C
> book" in perusing the wiki -- would anyone be able to make some
> suggestions?

I have some suggestions for references.  These are *not* tutorials.

This newsgroup's FAQ list, <http://www.c-faq.com/>, is good (but
somewhat out of date in some places).  I particularly recommend
section 6, which does a good job of clearing up the confusion
about the relationship between arrays and pointers.

Harbison & Steele's "C: A Reference Manual" is a good reference.
The latest edition is the 5th, published in 2002.

cppreference.com is good for quickly looking up things.  It covers
both C and C++.

The latest public draft of the 2011 C standard is N1570,
    http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf
This is definitely *not* a tutorial and is not intended for beginning
C programmers.  I suggest grabbing a copy anyway and taking a look
at it anyway.  If you follow this newsgroup, you'll see a lot of
references to it.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#129808

FromC W Rose <cwr@seckford.org>
Date2018-04-25 18:59 +0100
Message-ID<09s6re-hu2.ln1@tanner.seckford.org>
In reply to#129679
Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> wrote:
> Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
>> Hope this isn't too far off the mark for this group -- long story short,
>> I'm trying to get back into C programming after not having touched it in
>> nearly a decade (since university -- and barely passing, as I recall).
>>
>> Most of what I'm getting from Google is some variant of "use C++"
>> (blogs, random "articles" that're probably trying to sell something,
>> etc.). I did come across the clc-wiki.net "C Tutorial" the other night
>> as a potential source to get my wits about me.
>>
>> The only thing is that tutorial mentions that it is "not a replacement
>> for a good C book".  I didn't happen to notice any examples of "a good C
>> book" in perusing the wiki -- would anyone be able to make some
>> suggestions?
> 
> I have some suggestions for references.  These are *not* tutorials.
> 
> This newsgroup's FAQ list, <http://www.c-faq.com/>, is good (but
> somewhat out of date in some places).  I particularly recommend
> section 6, which does a good job of clearing up the confusion
> about the relationship between arrays and pointers.
> 
> Harbison & Steele's "C: A Reference Manual" is a good reference.
> The latest edition is the 5th, published in 2002.
> 

What he said - it's old, not covering the latest standard libraries,
but to my mind still essential as a reference.

I'd incline against K&R - I learned C from the first edition, but it's
an uneasy mixture of tutorial and reference and I wouldn't recommend it.
Try 'C Programming: a modern approach' by K N King or whatever Dietel
(and/or Dietel) have written.

A very useful book indeed is Steve Summits 'C Programming FAQs' (the
printed version) but I doubt it's still available anywhere. It covers
all the bits of the language I keep forgetting.

Most of these books are out of print, but you should be able to find
them available cheaply somewhere on the net.

Good luck - Will

-- 
"The standard just needs the implementation to go 'beep'!"
  -- Peter Nilsson in comp.lang.c

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#129812

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2018-04-26 10:42 -0700
Message-ID<lnfu3hg8zo.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#129808
C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> writes:
[...]
> A very useful book indeed is Steve Summits 'C Programming FAQs' (the
> printed version) but I doubt it's still available anywhere. It covers
> all the bits of the language I keep forgetting.
[...]

It's available in paperback on both Amazon and bn.com.  (There doesn't
seem to be an ebook.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#129841

FromSteven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-27 00:23 -0700
Message-ID<a2d8aa04-958b-492f-8749-2d9571e357f6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#129812
On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 10:42:27 AM UTC-7, Keith Thompson wrote:
> C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> writes:
> [...]
> > A very useful book indeed is Steve Summits 'C Programming FAQs' (the
> > printed version) but I doubt it's still available anywhere. It covers
> > all the bits of the language I keep forgetting.
> [...]
> 
> It's available in paperback on both Amazon and bn.com.  (There doesn't
> seem to be an ebook.)
> 
> -- 
> Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
> Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
> "We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
>     -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"



Just look at your junk and look at mine, there is nothing for me to learn from a small time player like John Gohde. But hey, let him keep making a cretin of himself. He can make another sock to pat himself on the back. Tmux's update system failed over and over again. Thus, my first statement stands literal and correct. The whole burlesque is chock-full of bizarre inconsistencies and counts heavily on John Gohde's 'riding Dog Fucker Paul F. Riddle's ass' gag. John Gohde's stupendous "problem solving expertise" made it so he could not find an extension he needs that can be quickly Googled for this software. 

At times, fiction is more valuable than faithful descriptions of reality. 



--
I Left My Husband & Daughter At Home And THIS happened!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OffkiSAsYo8
Jonas Eklundh Communication AB

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