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Groups > comp.lang.c > #140381 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2019-01-29 10:50 -0800 |
| Last post | 2019-02-19 18:19 -0600 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 380 — 25 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.c
"...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 10:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-29 20:30 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:47 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 18:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-01-30 05:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 14:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 15:07 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 06:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 17:12 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-01-30 14:42 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 11:19 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 11:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 12:13 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-29 12:20 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 15:08 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-29 21:38 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 19:01 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 11:27 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 04:18 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 11:00 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:18 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 14:34 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 23:12 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 15:44 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-30 19:00 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-01-31 14:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 09:44 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-31 23:15 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 15:11 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:12 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-29 22:46 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 14:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-29 16:27 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-01-29 16:48 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-29 16:13 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-30 16:57 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-01-30 18:04 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-30 17:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-30 19:23 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-31 03:25 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-01-31 08:53 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-01-31 14:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 12:52 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-01-31 18:19 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-31 09:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-31 19:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-01 13:24 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 12:15 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-04 12:08 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 11:14 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-04 03:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-04 15:24 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-04 12:03 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:34 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-02-04 22:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 21:32 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 12:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:06 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 23:30 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 13:27 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 14:36 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 16:50 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 18:44 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 08:23 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-05 12:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 09:51 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-05 13:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 01:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 22:44 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 02:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-02-06 17:39 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 10:39 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-07 07:58 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:45 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-26 08:44 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 08:03 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-26 15:29 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-07 07:59 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 12:07 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 03:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 13:36 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 04:44 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 06:03 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 06:22 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 15:54 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:56 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 16:04 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 00:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-07 09:39 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 19:55 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-07 23:27 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 16:35 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 02:02 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:10 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 02:37 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-07 12:01 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 21:55 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-07 23:17 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 16:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 02:04 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-08 01:39 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-08 11:42 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-08 03:07 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-08 03:10 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 13:43 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-08 06:47 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-08 17:56 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-08 10:27 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 05:01 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-10 16:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 09:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 02:34 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 09:54 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 12:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 14:03 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 14:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 02:57 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 14:25 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 08:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-11 01:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-11 13:53 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-11 08:01 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-11 17:01 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-11 11:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-12 01:40 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 01:51 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-12 12:13 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 03:39 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-12 16:27 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 07:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 09:50 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-02-12 21:13 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-12 21:52 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 01:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 11:52 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 03:29 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:26 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 11:41 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-13 05:26 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 05:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:34 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-12 16:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-12 08:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 04:40 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 02:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-13 02:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 03:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-13 03:36 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:32 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 06:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 07:21 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:38 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-13 11:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 21:27 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 00:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-14 02:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 03:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 15:12 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-14 07:28 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 01:06 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-24 20:47 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-24 13:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-25 02:26 -0800
Wow... (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached") gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-25 12:12 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 15:46 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-13 08:15 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 18:07 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-11 13:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-10 12:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 13:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-10 13:59 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-10 17:50 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 15:17 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-25 17:38 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 21:40 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-26 01:37 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2019-02-11 20:24 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 14:47 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-06 07:51 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:12 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 05:22 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-06 05:51 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-07 10:33 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-05 21:24 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 00:24 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-06 14:13 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 08:56 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-05 23:59 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 00:15 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 08:25 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 11:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 14:41 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-06 14:17 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-06 06:37 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-06 16:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-04 14:48 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-04 22:09 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-05 10:19 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-04 22:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 12:10 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 08:47 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-12 12:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 20:55 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 10:07 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 21:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 11:01 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 15:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-16 16:33 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 16:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 16:52 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-16 18:20 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-16 20:00 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 08:54 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-16 23:23 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 12:31 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 00:34 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 14:26 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 01:45 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-17 20:12 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-17 11:23 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-02-12 23:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-12 14:12 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 22:44 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-12 23:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-13 12:51 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 01:13 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-14 07:39 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 19:54 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-14 16:30 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 13:17 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 15:19 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 14:45 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 16:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 16:38 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:24 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 07:17 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:28 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 12:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-15 01:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-14 06:29 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-14 14:19 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 01:33 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-02-18 19:33 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 18:53 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 19:05 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-18 20:11 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-18 19:25 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-18 21:39 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-14 19:22 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 02:14 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 15:53 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-15 09:27 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 10:02 +0100
Just an end-user... (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is) reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-13 09:13 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 11:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 13:37 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 14:21 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:32 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-13 15:18 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-13 16:36 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-13 23:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 01:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 02:35 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 10:00 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 12:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 15:22 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 15:02 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 16:23 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 17:03 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:41 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 21:23 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-15 10:38 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 22:53 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-14 08:19 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-14 20:45 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-02-15 02:32 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 11:51 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 16:47 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 17:18 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 17:48 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 19:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-02-14 20:21 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-14 21:20 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-14 22:24 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 00:18 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 01:29 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 08:14 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-15 07:03 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-15 04:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-02-15 05:26 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-15 16:37 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 14:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-15 14:07 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-15 07:02 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 17:06 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-15 08:10 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 21:45 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 14:16 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-26 15:04 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-26 15:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-26 12:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-26 21:05 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-26 13:55 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-27 06:41 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-27 12:33 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-02-27 08:18 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-27 14:02 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 21:18 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-27 02:41 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2019-02-26 19:13 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 22:29 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 09:33 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-27 07:41 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 14:15 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-27 07:02 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-27 17:18 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-28 15:05 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-07 11:24 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-03-21 11:13 +0000
Re: Readability (was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached") Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-21 23:25 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-24 03:01 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 16:03 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-26 17:38 +1300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-04 21:31 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-02-01 02:38 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-02-01 01:57 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2019-02-01 13:26 +0300
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 07:18 -0500
The look of C (Was: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is) reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-01 14:26 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 14:32 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 06:54 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-01 16:42 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:56 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 18:09 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:31 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 10:58 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-01 12:47 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-02 16:18 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-01 21:52 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-01 23:52 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-02 01:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-01 16:41 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-02-02 02:00 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 15:10 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-02-01 14:36 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-01 07:05 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-02-25 22:30 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-02-26 12:37 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 09:09 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-02-26 05:50 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-06 09:06 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-06 10:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-03-23 10:27 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-03-25 12:14 -0700
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-02-01 09:43 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2019-01-31 03:46 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-01-30 22:49 -0500
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-30 20:08 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-02-10 09:11 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2019-02-19 10:23 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-19 22:55 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-19 15:48 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-02-20 00:10 +0000
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-02-19 16:42 -0800
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-02-20 13:05 +0100
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-20 10:30 -0600
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-19 16:05 -0600
Re: "...the value becomes,indeterminate each time the declaration is reached" Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-19 18:19 -0600
Page 13 of 19 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13] 14 15 … 19 Next page →
| From | Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 16:30 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <gck5n5Fke31U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #140959 |
On 14/02/2019 08:54, Bart wrote: > On 13/02/2019 18:39, Ian Collins wrote: >> On 13/02/2019 14:13, Bart wrote: > >> Never the less, given a choice you write the code as you did, presumably >> because you found it more natural that way. > > I just wrote the code that was necessary to implement the algorithm. I > didn't write declarations because that dynamic language didn't need > them. If I did decide to add them, they would be outside of the code so > that there would be less clutter. Whether you used declarations or not is irrelevant, you still introduced the variables when you needed them.... > (Also, in that language, it will trap the use of an uninitialised variable.) > >> The C++ example you posted also used a const, which can only be >> introduced at the point of first assignment. You conveniently ignored >> the messages pointing out the error in your "adding 'const' everywhere" >> argument. > > What about it? Sometimes 'const' declarations need to be in-place, as > they must be initialised, and their initial value may only be ready at > that point. And sometimes they don't. Quite. You can only initialise a const when the value is available. So given that, why use two declaration styles rather than declare everything when its value is available? > And if you /did/ have to scan your code adding 'const' where it would > help, without necessarily having to move the declaration elsewhere, then > you would still have the problem of having to examine every line of a > function. Because it was declared when first used, it would already be const! > What I don't understand is this preoccupation with micro-managing > variable scopes. When you are writing a function, then you have have > ALREADY minimised the possible scope to the extent of the function, and > most functions are going to be small, like, 2-3 dozen lines. I don't see any micromanagement. I need variable part way through a function, I add one. No point it adding it somewhere else. If you are going to use terms such as micromanagement, then it is more applicable to gathering all your declarations in one place. > If a function grows to the extent that you have autonomous regions that > want to have their own variables, then perhaps it's time to split it up. That's nit the point. if I need say an intermediate value from a calculation, I'll add it even if the function is only a few of lines long. > How many local variables is a function likely to have anyway? Irrelevant. -- Ian.
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 13:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <2Ud9E.1326702$kk4.460444@fx36.am4> |
| In reply to | #140973 |
On 14/02/2019 03:30, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 14/02/2019 08:54, Bart wrote:
>> On 13/02/2019 18:39, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> On 13/02/2019 14:13, Bart wrote:
>>
>>> Never the less, given a choice you write the code as you did, presumably
>>> because you found it more natural that way.
>>
>> I just wrote the code that was necessary to implement the algorithm. I
>> didn't write declarations because that dynamic language didn't need
>> them. If I did decide to add them, they would be outside of the code so
>> that there would be less clutter.
>
> Whether you used declarations or not is irrelevant, you still introduced
> the variables when you needed them....
You mean I first used a variable when I first needed to use it? Yes;
doing otherwise is difficult.
But you don't seem to grasp the difference between declaring a variable,
which is adding annotation to define certain attributes, and just using
it. I want to keep that extra annotation separate from the code that
uses that variable.
My example achieved exactly that. And that language didn't even need a
separate declaration. So all the advances of just inventing a variable
as you need it, without any of the clutter, subsequent maintenance
problems, and problems to do with scope and shadowing.
BTW if I write this in C:
goto L;
int a=0;
L: printf("%d\n",a);
then I might get this output:
-1409286144
Initialising it within the code didn't work, but it is not immediately
obvious as being wrong (gcc shows 0, the correct answer).
But if I try the same thing in the language you are complaining about:
goto L
a:=0
L: println a
Output is <Void>. This means it hasn't been assigned to. Another reason
why that language can get away without declarations.
> Because it was declared when first used, it would already be const!
Except when it isn't. You might be reviewing code with a view to adding
'const'.
> That's nit the point. if I need say an intermediate value from a
> calculation, I'll add it even if the function is only a few of lines long.
Yes, and it is still annoying. Instead of:
a = expr;
you now have:
typespec a = expr;
extra noise. This is a real example:
const unsigned char *py = nj.comp[0].pixels;
const unsigned char *pcb = nj.comp[1].pixels;
const unsigned char *pcr = nj.comp[2].pixels;
HALF of each line is declaration. And exactly the same typespec appears
3 times. By insisting on using 'const', you've also made it impossible
to declare those 3 variables elsewhere.
>> How many local variables is a function likely to have anyway?
>
> Irrelevant.
Why?
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 15:19 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q43td3$lum$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #140997 |
On 14/02/2019 14:17, Bart wrote:
> On 14/02/2019 03:30, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 14/02/2019 08:54, Bart wrote:
>>> On 13/02/2019 18:39, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>> On 13/02/2019 14:13, Bart wrote:
>>>
>>>> Never the less, given a choice you write the code as you did,
>>>> presumably
>>>> because you found it more natural that way.
>>>
>>> I just wrote the code that was necessary to implement the algorithm. I
>>> didn't write declarations because that dynamic language didn't need
>>> them. If I did decide to add them, they would be outside of the code so
>>> that there would be less clutter.
>>
>> Whether you used declarations or not is irrelevant, you still
>> introduced the variables when you needed them....
>
> You mean I first used a variable when I first needed to use it? Yes;
> doing otherwise is difficult.
>
> But you don't seem to grasp the difference between declaring a variable,
> which is adding annotation to define certain attributes, and just using
> it. I want to keep that extra annotation separate from the code that
> uses that variable.
>
> My example achieved exactly that. And that language didn't even need a
> separate declaration. So all the advances of just inventing a variable
> as you need it, without any of the clutter, subsequent maintenance
> problems, and problems to do with scope and shadowing.
>
> BTW if I write this in C:
>
> goto L;
> int a=0;
> L: printf("%d\n",a);
>
> then I might get this output:
>
> -1409286144
>
> Initialising it within the code didn't work, but it is not immediately
> obvious as being wrong (gcc shows 0, the correct answer).
>
0 is not "the correct answer". There is no correct answer.
When you write C code that does not have defined behaviour, it is /you/
that has made the mistake. Not the language, or the compiler, or the
style of coding. When that code is easily seen to be incorrect by
programmers and compiler warnings, you have no excuses. Posting such
snippets does not help anyone.
> But if I try the same thing in the language you are complaining about:
>
> goto L
> a:=0
> L: println a
>
> Output is <Void>. This means it hasn't been assigned to. Another reason
> why that language can get away without declarations.
C is far better - rather than waiting for run-time and seeing weird
outputs of "<Void>" when you expect a number, you get a warning or an
error at compile time, and can fix it earlier. Of course, that assumes
you are willing to use your tools properly, rather than abuse them
because you think it helps make your non-existent points.
>
>> Because it was declared when first used, it would already be const!
>
> Except when it isn't. You might be reviewing code with a view to adding
> 'const'.
Why would you do that? Just write the code properly in the first place.
>
>> That's nit the point. if I need say an intermediate value from a
>> calculation, I'll add it even if the function is only a few of lines
>> long.
>
> Yes, and it is still annoying. Instead of:
>
> a = expr;
>
> you now have:
>
> typespec a = expr;
>
> extra noise. This is a real example:
>
> const unsigned char *py = nj.comp[0].pixels;
> const unsigned char *pcb = nj.comp[1].pixels;
> const unsigned char *pcr = nj.comp[2].pixels;
>
> HALF of each line is declaration. And exactly the same typespec appears
> 3 times. By insisting on using 'const', you've also made it impossible
> to declare those 3 variables elsewhere.
You really don't understand, do you? We don't /want/ to declare them
anywhere else.
When using longer types, C has "typedef" - it means you can give shorter
names to types you use often. That helps keep code neater and clearer,
and makes it easier to modify. I know you don't like "typedef" because
anything that makes C more convenient spoils your chance to moan about
how terrible it is, but other people use it.
(In C++, where typenames can often get rather long and complicated, you
can use "auto" to get inferred typing. It would be quite nice to see
that in C.)
>
>
>>> How many local variables is a function likely to have anyway?
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>
> Why?
>
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 14:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <8af9E.935122$3si.426345@fx08.am4> |
| In reply to | #141005 |
On 14/02/2019 14:19, David Brown wrote: > On 14/02/2019 14:17, Bart wrote: >> Except when it isn't. You might be reviewing code with a view to adding >> 'const'. > > Why would you do that? Just write the code properly in the first place. That is not an answer. What you are saying that all the code you write is perfect first time, and all the from other people that you have to maintain is also perfect. And that you've never reviewed ANY code and noticed that a declaration might be better off with a 'const'. Because all code is also perfect. All just to avoid conceding that I might have a point.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 16:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q440co$7ud$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141012 |
On 14/02/2019 15:45, Bart wrote: > On 14/02/2019 14:19, David Brown wrote: >> On 14/02/2019 14:17, Bart wrote: > >>> Except when it isn't. You might be reviewing code with a view to adding >>> 'const'. >> >> Why would you do that? Just write the code properly in the first place. > > That is not an answer. > > What you are saying that all the code you write is perfect first time, > and all the from other people that you have to maintain is also perfect. > No, what I am saying is that if you are in the habit of using const properly - as anyone who has been programming C for the last 10 years should be - then you don't need to go back and add const all over the place. And any code that is old enough not to have const appropriately, but is still good enough to be used, is probably best left untouched for the most part. There is no point in fiddling with working code at that point. > And that you've never reviewed ANY code and noticed that a declaration > might be better off with a 'const'. Because all code is also perfect. > Of course there is code that could be improved by adding a const. If the improvement is worth making, then you add const. If the code already uses sensible mixing of declarations and code, you just put in the "const" where it should be. If it uses a silly "declare everything first" style, then you have to make a decision - do you disrupt the consistency in order to improve the code, or do you leave it as it is? That is the kind of decision you always have to make when considering changing existing code. > All just to avoid conceding that I might have a point. > You don't even have the beginnings of a hint of a point. You have decided on a conclusion - god knows why - and are trying to back-justify it through steadily more absurd and extreme distortions of reality.
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 16:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <aQg9E.346649$ns2.310094@fx26.am4> |
| In reply to | #141018 |
On 14/02/2019 15:10, David Brown wrote: > On 14/02/2019 15:45, Bart wrote: >> All just to avoid conceding that I might have a point. >> > > You don't even have the beginnings of a hint of a point. You have > decided on a conclusion - god knows why - and are trying to back-justify > it through steadily more absurd and extreme distortions of reality. The point is this: IF you need to review all the variable declarations in a function, for whatever reason, then it it is MUCH easier if they are all in one place, than disseminated throughout the function. Do you dispute that?
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 20:24 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q44f99$7r8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141029 |
On 14/02/2019 17:38, Bart wrote: > On 14/02/2019 15:10, David Brown wrote: >> On 14/02/2019 15:45, Bart wrote: > >>> All just to avoid conceding that I might have a point. >>> >> >> You don't even have the beginnings of a hint of a point. You have >> decided on a conclusion - god knows why - and are trying to back-justify >> it through steadily more absurd and extreme distortions of reality. > > The point is this: > > IF you need to review all the variable declarations in a function, for > whatever reason, then it it is MUCH easier if they are all in one place, > than disseminated throughout the function. > > Do you dispute that? > /If/ I needed to do that then it is easier to see them all in one place. No disputes on that conclusion. I strongly dispute the idea that this is something you would want or need to do. After all, the declaration is only part of what is of interest in a variable - and if there is no initialisation, it is an even smaller part. The most important part is usually the /use/ of the variable, not is declaration - and that will always be somewhere inside the function. Thus if I want to know about a local variable, having its declaration at the start of the function means I have to look in two places instead of one. And if I want to know about the scope and lifetime of the variable, then the smaller its scope the easier - putting it at the start of the function means I have to read the whole function, not just one block. For practical purposes, declaring the variable on its first use is therefore significantly simpler and saves time and effort. Do you dispute /that/ ?
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| From | James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 07:17 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <1ba45537-ef4e-4c62-93a2-4400c550b3e0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #141005 |
On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 9:19:26 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/02/2019 14:17, Bart wrote:
...
> > BTW if I write this in C:
> >
> > goto L;
> > int a=0;
> > L: printf("%d\n",a);
> >
> > then I might get this output:
> >
> > -1409286144
> >
> > Initialising it within the code didn't work, but it is not immediately
> > obvious as being wrong (gcc shows 0, the correct answer).
> >
>
> 0 is not "the correct answer". There is no correct answer.
<pedantic> It would be more accurate to say that there is no incorrect answer.</pedantic>
Writing code with undefined behavior is equivalent to telling the
implementation "Do whatever you want, I don't care.", which is a mistake
if you do actually care what your program does. The only time it makes
sense to write such code is if it's targeted to a restricted set of
platforms, and you know what each of those platforms will do with such
code, and what they will do with it is what you want done with it. This
is actually quite a common case: it's better known as "taking advantage
of an extension to C".
Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to bother translating such code. Pick
any random program, already translated to an executable, and execute it
- whatever that program does, it's one of the things you told the
compiler it was OK for your program to do, and you just saved yourself
the time and trouble of compiling and linking your program.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 20:28 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q44fg1$94g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141020 |
On 14/02/2019 16:17, James Kuyper wrote:
> On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 9:19:26 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
>> On 14/02/2019 14:17, Bart wrote:
> ...
>>> BTW if I write this in C:
>>>
>>> goto L;
>>> int a=0;
>>> L: printf("%d\n",a);
>>>
>>> then I might get this output:
>>>
>>> -1409286144
>>>
>>> Initialising it within the code didn't work, but it is not immediately
>>> obvious as being wrong (gcc shows 0, the correct answer).
>>>
>>
>> 0 is not "the correct answer". There is no correct answer.
>
> <pedantic> It would be more accurate to say that there is no incorrect answer.</pedantic>
There is no incorrect answer from the viewpoint of the compiler (you've
told it you will accept anything, including nasal daemons). There is no
correct answer from the viewpoint of the programmer's expectations,
since the programmer has not asked a meaningful "question".
Would that not be an accurate way to describe it?
> Writing code with undefined behavior is equivalent to telling the
> implementation "Do whatever you want, I don't care.", which is a mistake
> if you do actually care what your program does. The only time it makes
> sense to write such code is if it's targeted to a restricted set of
> platforms, and you know what each of those platforms will do with such
> code, and what they will do with it is what you want done with it. This
> is actually quite a common case: it's better known as "taking advantage
> of an extension to C".
>
> Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to bother translating such code. Pick
> any random program, already translated to an executable, and execute it
> - whatever that program does, it's one of the things you told the
> compiler it was OK for your program to do, and you just saved yourself
> the time and trouble of compiling and linking your program.
>
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| From | James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 12:05 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <d941061f-c5d5-4177-9ebb-e664eea431e0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #141036 |
On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 2:28:10 PM UTC-5, David Brown wrote: > On 14/02/2019 16:17, James Kuyper wrote: > > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 9:19:26 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote: ... > >> 0 is not "the correct answer". There is no correct answer. > > > > <pedantic> It would be more accurate to say that there is no incorrect answer.</pedantic> > > There is no incorrect answer from the viewpoint of the compiler (you've > told it you will accept anything, including nasal daemons). There is no > correct answer from the viewpoint of the programmer's expectations, > since the programmer has not asked a meaningful "question". > > Would that not be an accurate way to describe it? This particular program was intended to ask a question. However, in general computer programs give commands to a computer - sometimes it's a command to answer a question, sometimes it's not (for instance, a command to navigate a missile to a given target), but it's always a command. Code with undefined behavior does not correspond to asking a meaningless question. It corresponds to issuing a command to the implementation - specifically, the command "do whatever you want to do". The problem with that command is not that it's meaningless, nor that it's not a command - the problem is that it's a command which does not, in any way, constrain what the implementation needs to do to qualify as obeying that command.
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| From | Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-15 01:48 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <07049bf4-14ad-453e-926e-59528596d227@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #141036 |
On Thursday, 14 February 2019 19:28:10 UTC, David Brown wrote:
> On 14/02/2019 16:17, James Kuyper wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 9:19:26 AM UTC-5, David Brown wrote:
> >> On 14/02/2019 14:17, Bart wrote:
> > ...
> >>> BTW if I write this in C:
> >>>
> >>> goto L;
> >>> int a=0;
> >>> L: printf("%d\n",a);
> >>>
> >>> then I might get this output:
> >>>
> >>> -1409286144
> >>>
> >>> Initialising it within the code didn't work, but it is not immediately
> >>> obvious as being wrong (gcc shows 0, the correct answer).
> >>>
> >>
> >> 0 is not "the correct answer". There is no correct answer.
> >
> > <pedantic> It would be more accurate to say that there is no incorrect answer.</pedantic>
>
> There is no incorrect answer from the viewpoint of the compiler (you've
> told it you will accept anything, including nasal daemons). There is no
> correct answer from the viewpoint of the programmer's expectations,
> since the programmer has not asked a meaningful "question".
>
> Would that not be an accurate way to describe it?
>
>
There's a perfectly good English word you are looking for.
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| From | Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 06:29 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <1fd600e8-fe39-4196-bc84-6a0d8f856a10@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #140997 |
On Thursday, 14 February 2019 15:18:01 UTC+2, Bart wrote: > > This is a real example: > > const unsigned char *py = nj.comp[0].pixels; > const unsigned char *pcb = nj.comp[1].pixels; > const unsigned char *pcr = nj.comp[2].pixels; That doesn't pass code review in C projects I've participated this century since coding standards always required to use "uint8_t" instead of "unsigned char".
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| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-14 14:19 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <lnk1i2qagm.fsf@kst-u.example.com> |
| In reply to | #141008 |
Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> writes:
> On Thursday, 14 February 2019 15:18:01 UTC+2, Bart wrote:
>> This is a real example:
>>
>> const unsigned char *py = nj.comp[0].pixels;
>> const unsigned char *pcb = nj.comp[1].pixels;
>> const unsigned char *pcr = nj.comp[2].pixels;
>
> That doesn't pass code review in C projects I've
> participated this century since coding standards always
> required to use "uint8_t" instead of "unsigned char".
uint8_t, if it exists, is guaranteed to be an 8-bit unsigned type.
(It does exist on almost all implementations that support C99
or later.)
unsigned char is guaranteed to be exactly one byte.
Do your coding standards not recognize that the possibility that
you might sometimes *want* to manipulate bytes?
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Will write code for food.
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */
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| From | Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-15 01:33 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <c871b18c-9a9e-4424-ae70-b15181db78c6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #141053 |
On Friday, 15 February 2019 00:20:01 UTC+2, Keith Thompson wrote: > Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> writes: > > On Thursday, 14 February 2019 15:18:01 UTC+2, Bart wrote: > >> This is a real example: > >> > >> const unsigned char *py = nj.comp[0].pixels; > >> const unsigned char *pcb = nj.comp[1].pixels; > >> const unsigned char *pcr = nj.comp[2].pixels; > > > > That doesn't pass code review in C projects I've > > participated this century since coding standards always > > required to use "uint8_t" instead of "unsigned char". > > uint8_t, if it exists, is guaranteed to be an 8-bit unsigned type. > (It does exist on almost all implementations that support C99 > or later.) > > unsigned char is guaranteed to be exactly one byte. > > Do your coding standards not recognize that the possibility that > you might sometimes *want* to manipulate bytes? Coding standards of project choose what is practically needed from all theoretical possibilities to simplify work. When new practical needs arise then these are changed / extended but not before. In practice all programs communicate with some other programs but the controllers / processors on what the programs run can be very different. So precise bit layouts of data let to avoid lot of issues there. It is not only about unsigned char, same goes with int and also with enum. C does not let to define precise bit width type as underlying type of enum nor to use enums as bitfields. That makes it more useful for academic discussions and less useful for practice.
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| From | Manfred <noname@invalid.add> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-18 19:33 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q4etou$1iel$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #141067 |
On 2/15/19 10:33 AM, Öö Tiib wrote: > On Friday, 15 February 2019 00:20:01 UTC+2, Keith Thompson wrote: >> Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> writes: >>> On Thursday, 14 February 2019 15:18:01 UTC+2, Bart wrote: >>>> This is a real example: >>>> >>>> const unsigned char *py = nj.comp[0].pixels; >>>> const unsigned char *pcb = nj.comp[1].pixels; >>>> const unsigned char *pcr = nj.comp[2].pixels; >>> >>> That doesn't pass code review in C projects I've >>> participated this century since coding standards always >>> required to use "uint8_t" instead of "unsigned char". This depends on the context, I would say. The use of uintX_t is to guarantee a defined bit width of the type. This is most required for programs to communicate with other processes. Data that is meant to be used exclusively inside a single program can be specified as "char" and derived types, provided that the properties specified by the standard fulfill the requirements of the type. >> >> uint8_t, if it exists, is guaranteed to be an 8-bit unsigned type. >> (It does exist on almost all implementations that support C99 >> or later.) >> >> unsigned char is guaranteed to be exactly one byte. >> >> Do your coding standards not recognize that the possibility that >> you might sometimes *want* to manipulate bytes? > > Coding standards of project choose what is practically > needed from all theoretical possibilities to simplify > work. When new practical needs arise then these are > changed / extended but not before. In practice all > programs communicate with some other programs > but the controllers / processors on what the programs > run can be very different. So precise bit layouts of data > let to avoid lot of issues there. You are right in the context of communicating with the outside world. > > It is not only about unsigned char, same goes with int > and also with enum. C does not let to define precise bit > width type as underlying type of enum nor to use enums > as bitfields. That makes it more useful for academic > discussions and less useful for practice. > Same argument as for 'char' above, but possibly stronger: Usage of 'int' has a specific rationale in C, i.e. it maps to the machine word size, that is useful to represent an integer type that is most efficiently handled by the architecture. This means that whenever an integer is guaranteed to be used inside a single program, it can, and it may even be recommended to, be defined as 'int'. Obviously, as long as the properties of 'int' fulfill the requirements of the variable.
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-18 18:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <SaDaE.354606$fF1.150277@fx37.am4> |
| In reply to | #141137 |
On 18/02/2019 18:33, Manfred wrote: > Usage of 'int' has a specific rationale in C, i.e. it maps to the > machine word size, that is useful to represent an integer type that is > most efficiently handled by the architecture. That's not true for the 64-bit x86, where the word size is 64 bits but C's int is most likely 32 bits. And it's probably not true for Z80, where the natural word size is 8 bits, but an 'int' type is mo
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-18 19:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ZlDaE.354607$fF1.61388@fx37.am4> |
| In reply to | #141139 |
On 18/02/2019 18:53, Bart wrote: > On 18/02/2019 18:33, Manfred wrote: > >> Usage of 'int' has a specific rationale in C, i.e. it maps to the >> machine word size, that is useful to represent an integer type that is >> most efficiently handled by the architecture. > > That's not true for the 64-bit x86, where the word size is 64 bits but > C's int is most likely 32 bits. > > And it's probably not true for Z80, where the natural word size is 8 > bits, but an 'int' type is mo ..st likely 16 bits, which think C requires. (Longer answer got snipped, but I snipped too much.)
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-18 20:11 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q4f00g$q22$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141140 |
On 18/02/2019 20:05, Bart wrote: > On 18/02/2019 18:53, Bart wrote: >> On 18/02/2019 18:33, Manfred wrote: >> >>> Usage of 'int' has a specific rationale in C, i.e. it maps to the >>> machine word size, that is useful to represent an integer type that >>> is most efficiently handled by the architecture. >> >> That's not true for the 64-bit x86, where the word size is 64 bits but >> C's int is most likely 32 bits. That is because 32-bit int are more efficient for most purposes than 64-bit types. "Most efficiently" is somewhat open to interpretation - it does not necessarily mean "maximum width of general purpose integer registers". >> >> And it's probably not true for Z80, where the natural word size is 8 >> bits, but an 'int' type is mo > > ..st likely 16 bits, which think C requires. > > (Longer answer got snipped, but I snipped too much.) Yes, 16-bit is the minimum size for C "int".
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| From | Bart <bc@freeuk.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-18 19:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <yEDaE.497029$ZE1.148245@fx24.am4> |
| In reply to | #141141 |
On 18/02/2019 19:11, David Brown wrote: > On 18/02/2019 20:05, Bart wrote: >> On 18/02/2019 18:53, Bart wrote: >>> On 18/02/2019 18:33, Manfred wrote: >>> >>>> Usage of 'int' has a specific rationale in C, i.e. it maps to the >>>> machine word size, that is useful to represent an integer type that >>>> is most efficiently handled by the architecture. >>> >>> That's not true for the 64-bit x86, where the word size is 64 bits >>> but C's int is most likely 32 bits. > > That is because 32-bit int are more efficient for most purposes than > 64-bit types. > > "Most efficiently" is somewhat open to interpretation - it does not > necessarily mean "maximum width of general purpose integer registers". This is what my longer answer had been about. But in what way do you think 32-bit ints are more efficient? If arrays of them use less memory, then 16-bit ones would use even less.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2019-02-18 21:39 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <q4f568$uga$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #141142 |
On 18/02/2019 20:25, Bart wrote: > On 18/02/2019 19:11, David Brown wrote: >> On 18/02/2019 20:05, Bart wrote: >>> On 18/02/2019 18:53, Bart wrote: >>>> On 18/02/2019 18:33, Manfred wrote: >>>> >>>>> Usage of 'int' has a specific rationale in C, i.e. it maps to the >>>>> machine word size, that is useful to represent an integer type that >>>>> is most efficiently handled by the architecture. >>>> >>>> That's not true for the 64-bit x86, where the word size is 64 bits >>>> but C's int is most likely 32 bits. >> >> That is because 32-bit int are more efficient for most purposes than >> 64-bit types. >> >> "Most efficiently" is somewhat open to interpretation - it does not >> necessarily mean "maximum width of general purpose integer registers". > > This is what my longer answer had been about. > > But in what way do you think 32-bit ints are more efficient? There is always a compromise to be made. There are a good number of occasions when 16 bits is not big enough for your integers, but relatively few where 32 bits is not enough. Having your "int" at 32-bit saves a good deal of cache memory and bus bandwidth compared to using 64-bit data everywhere, without imposing too much inconvenience on programmers who need to use 64-bit types for a proportion of their variables. Reducing it to 16-bit would mean many more variables would need "bigger than int" size, and much less space and bandwidth savings. > > If arrays of them use less memory, then 16-bit ones would use even less. > Sure - if you have arrays of reasonable size, and 16-bit is enough, then use 16-bit types (or 8-bit types, if that is enough). It will improve the cache hit ratio, and therefore speed. But 32-bit is a good compromise for general-purpose integers, i.e., C's "int".
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