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Groups > comp.lang.c > #129717 > unrolled thread

gcc_centric C code

Started bybartc <bc@freeuk.com>
First post2018-04-25 16:21 +0100
Last post2018-04-27 19:37 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 104 — 27 participants

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  gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 16:21 +0100
    gcc_centric C code Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 08:34 -0700
    Re: gcc_centric C code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-25 16:41 +0100
      Re: gcc_centric C code Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 16:19 +0000
        Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 18:02 +0100
          Re: gcc_centric C code Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2018-04-25 17:15 +0000
            Re: gcc_centric C code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-25 12:33 -0500
            Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 20:51 +0100
              Re: gcc_centric C code supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-25 13:01 -0700
                Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 21:21 +0100
              Re: gcc_centric C code jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2018-04-25 13:45 -0700
          Re: gcc_centric C code Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 17:20 +0000
        Re: gcc_centric C code supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-25 10:30 -0700
          Re: gcc_centric C code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-25 12:35 -0500
            Re: gcc_centric C code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 10:54 -0700
              Re: gcc_centric C code Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2018-04-25 20:27 +0200
                Re: gcc_centric C code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 12:38 -0700
                Re: gcc_centric C code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-25 19:53 -0500
                  Re: gcc_centric C code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 18:13 -0700
                    Re: gcc_centric C code Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2018-04-26 15:16 +0000
                    Re: gcc_centric C code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 08:17 -0700
                  Re: gcc_centric C code Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2018-04-26 08:03 +0200
                    Re: gcc_centric C code Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2018-04-26 14:30 +0000
                    Re: gcc_centric C code jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2018-04-26 08:26 -0700
                      Re: gcc_centric C code Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2018-04-26 19:04 +0200
                        Re: gcc_centric C code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 07:48 +1200
                          Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 21:08 +0100
                            Re: gcc_centric C code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 08:18 +1200
                              Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 21:44 +0100
                                Re: gcc_centric C code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 09:01 +1200
                                  Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 23:16 +0100
                                    Re: gcc_centric C code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 10:27 +1200
                                      Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 23:48 +0100
                                        Re: gcc_centric C code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-27 20:41 +1200
                                          Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 11:51 +0100
                                            Re: gcc_centric C code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-28 07:32 +1200
                                            Re: gcc_centric C code Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 04:34 -0700
                                      Re: gcc_centric C code Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 23:05 -0700
                                    Re: gcc_centric C code jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2018-04-27 00:52 +0200
                                      Re: gcc_centric C code supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-26 16:23 -0700
                                        Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-28 11:24 +0100
                                      Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-28 01:42 +0100
                                Re: gcc_centric C code Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-26 21:40 +0000
                                  Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 23:34 +0100
                              Re: gcc_centric C code "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-26 14:13 -0700
                                Re: gcc_centric C code "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-26 14:16 -0700
              Re: gcc_centric C code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 08:08 -0700
                Re: gcc_centric C code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 09:11 -0700
                  Re: gcc_centric C code supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-27 09:26 -0700
                  Re: gcc_centric C code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 09:49 -0700
            Re: gcc_centric C code supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-25 12:31 -0700
              Re: gcc_centric C code Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2018-04-25 20:13 +0000
                Re: gcc_centric C code supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-25 13:50 -0700
          Re: gcc_centric C code Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2018-04-25 18:02 +0000
        Re: gcc_centric C code Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 22:39 -0700
      Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 18:36 +0100
        Re: gcc_centric C code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-25 23:15 +0100
          Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 02:02 +0100
            Re: gcc_centric C code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 18:28 -0700
            Re: gcc_centric C code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-26 11:45 +0100
              Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 14:53 +0100
                Re: gcc_centric C code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-26 23:38 +0100
                  Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 00:31 +0100
                    Re: gcc_centric C code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-27 00:47 +0100
                      Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 02:28 +0100
                      Re: gcc_centric C code Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 03:44 -0700
                        Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 13:57 +0100
                          Re: gcc_centric C code Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 11:02 -0700
                            Re: gcc_centric C code Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 11:07 -0700
                            Re: gcc_centric C code Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 11:13 -0700
                            Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-03 19:50 +0100
                              Re: gcc_centric C code Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 13:37 -0700
                                Re: gcc_centric C code Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-05-03 13:44 -0700
                                  Re: gcc_centric C code Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-05-11 10:25 -0700
              Re: gcc_centric C code Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 07:01 -0700
            Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2018-04-26 14:51 +0200
              Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-04-26 07:09 -0700
                Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-26 17:05 +0000
                  Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 18:38 +0100
                    Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way 1alvinalbrecht1@gmail.com - 2018-04-26 11:34 -0700
                      Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 21:36 +0100
                        Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-04-27 19:23 +0100
                          Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-28 14:34 +0100
                            Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 10:32 -0700
                            Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 10:16 -0700
                              Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 19:41 +0100
                                Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way supercat@casperkitty.com - 2018-04-30 12:11 -0700
                                  Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-30 19:14 +0000
                                Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-30 19:12 +0000
                                  Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 21:19 +0100
                                Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 19:23 -0700
                  Re: Clearly everyone else likes to do things the hard way Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2018-04-26 19:45 +0200
        Re: gcc_centric C code luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 21:56 -0700
          Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 11:06 +0100
            Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 11:27 +0100
        Re: gcc_centric C code antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-04-26 17:00 +0000
    Re: gcc_centric C code Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 09:26 -0700
    Re: gcc_centric C code Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-26 12:39 +0000
      Re: gcc_centric C code gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-26 13:09 +0000
    Re: gcc_centric C code Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-04-26 13:26 +0200
      Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 18:03 +0100
      Re: gcc_centric C code Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 14:32 -0700
    Re: gcc_centric C code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 09:41 -0700
      Re: gcc_centric C code bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 19:37 +0100

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#129856

FromTim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date2018-04-27 08:17 -0700
Message-ID<kfna7ton0g4.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu>
In reply to#129761
Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:

> Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:27:32 +0200, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 25.04.2018 um 19:54 schrieb Keith Thompson:
>>>
>>>> A very minor point:  values yielded by __func__ can be compared for
>>>> pointer equality.  (I've never seen code that relies on this.)
>>>
>>> The interaction of that with inline is problematic.
>>
>> Why?  Why should it be any different than any inlined function that
>> contains a static data item?  All inlined copies, as well as a
>> separately built copy (assuming it exists) would use the same (static)
>> item.
>
> N1570 6.7.4p7:
>
>     Any function with internal linkage can be an inline function.  For a
>     function with external linkage, the following restrictions apply:
>     [snip]
>     It is unspecified whether a call to the function uses the inline
>     definition or the external definition.
>
> with a footnote:
>
>     Since an inline definition is distinct from the corresponding
>     external definition and from any other corresponding inline
>     definitions in other translation units, all corresponding objects
>     with static storage duration are also distinct in each of the
>     definitions.

That doesn't make it problematic.  Just the opposite:  the
inline-only function and the external-providing function are
different functions (the two definitions are independent), and
they have different values for the two internal variables.

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#129767

FromPhilipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
Date2018-04-26 08:03 +0200
Message-ID<pbrq2s$r4b$1@solani.org>
In reply to#129759
Am 26.04.2018 um 02:53 schrieb Robert Wessel:
> On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:27:32 +0200, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
> wrote:
> 
>> Am 25.04.2018 um 19:54 schrieb Keith Thompson:
>>>
>>> A very minor point: values yielded by __func__ can be compared for
>>> pointer equality.  (I've never seen code that relies on this.)
>>>
>>
>> The interaction of that with inline is problematic.
> 
> 
> Why?  Why should it be any different than any inlined function that
> contains a static data item?  All inlined copies, as well as a
> separately built copy (assuming it exists) would use the same (static)
> item.
> 

The one problematic use case is comparing pointers to static objects (as
can be seen from the reply by Keith).
Note that static objects in inline functions need to be const (6.7.4 in
N1570 / C11 / C17), so there will be no problems with the value of such
objects.

Philipp

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#129790

FromNick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca>
Date2018-04-26 14:30 +0000
Message-ID<pbsnq8$mqn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#129767
On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:03:08 +0200, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
> Am 26.04.2018 um 02:53 schrieb Robert Wessel:
>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:27:32 +0200, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 25.04.2018 um 19:54 schrieb Keith Thompson:
>>>>
>>>> A very minor point: values yielded by __func__ can be compared for
>>>> pointer equality.  (I've never seen code that relies on this.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> The interaction of that with inline is problematic.
>> 
>> 
>> Why?  Why should it be any different than any inlined function that
>> contains a static data item?  All inlined copies, as well as a
>> separately built copy (assuming it exists) would use the same (static)
>> item.
>> 
> 
> The one problematic use case is comparing pointers to static objects (as
> can be seen from the reply by Keith).
> Note that static objects in inline functions need to be const (6.7.4 in
> N1570 / C11 / C17), so there will be no problems with the value of such
> objects.

The restrictions you are referring to is 6.7.4p2 and only apply to
*inline definitions*.  "Inline definition" is defined in 6.7.4p7 and
refers to the special case where the function has external linkage,
*all* the file-scope declarations of the function in the translation
unit have the inline specifier and *none* of them have the extern
specifier.

In every other case, inline functions may refer to any kind of object
just like any other kind of function can.

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#129795

Fromjameskuyper@verizon.net
Date2018-04-26 08:26 -0700
Message-ID<e70a08dd-1464-42c9-b3f6-d39f56015997@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#129767
On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 2:03:17 AM UTC-4, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
> Am 26.04.2018 um 02:53 schrieb Robert Wessel:
> > On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:27:32 +0200, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> Am 25.04.2018 um 19:54 schrieb Keith Thompson:
> >>>
> >>> A very minor point: values yielded by __func__ can be compared for
> >>> pointer equality.  (I've never seen code that relies on this.)
> >>>
> >>
> >> The interaction of that with inline is problematic.
> > 
> > 
> > Why?  Why should it be any different than any inlined function that
> > contains a static data item?  All inlined copies, as well as a
> > separately built copy (assuming it exists) would use the same (static)
> > item.
> > 
> 
> The one problematic use case is comparing pointers to static objects (as
> can be seen from the reply by Keith).
> Note that static objects in inline functions need to be const (6.7.4 in
> N1570 / C11 / C17), so there will be no problems with the value of such
> objects.
123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012
That's only true for inline definitions, but even for them, since
__func__ is defined as an array of const char, it's definition doesn't
violate the first part of 6.7.4p3, and as it has block scope, it has no
linkage, so use of __func__ within such a function doesn't violate the
second part of 6.7.4p3. What do you consider problematic about it?

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#129804

FromPhilipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
Date2018-04-26 19:04 +0200
Message-ID<pbt0rm$m1g$1@solani.org>
In reply to#129795
Am 26.04.2018 um 17:26 schrieb jameskuyper@verizon.net:
> On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 2:03:17 AM UTC-4, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>> Am 26.04.2018 um 02:53 schrieb Robert Wessel:
>>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:27:32 +0200, Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 25.04.2018 um 19:54 schrieb Keith Thompson:
>>>>>
>>>>> A very minor point: values yielded by __func__ can be compared for
>>>>> pointer equality.  (I've never seen code that relies on this.)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The interaction of that with inline is problematic.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why?  Why should it be any different than any inlined function that
>>> contains a static data item?  All inlined copies, as well as a
>>> separately built copy (assuming it exists) would use the same (static)
>>> item.
>>>
>>
>> The one problematic use case is comparing pointers to static objects (as
>> can be seen from the reply by Keith).
>> Note that static objects in inline functions need to be const (6.7.4 in
>> N1570 / C11 / C17), so there will be no problems with the value of such
>> objects.
> 123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012
> That's only true for inline definitions, but even for them, since
> __func__ is defined as an array of const char, it's definition doesn't
> violate the first part of 6.7.4p3, and as it has block scope, it has no
> linkage, so use of __func__ within such a function doesn't violate the
> second part of 6.7.4p3. What do you consider problematic about it?
> 

"Problematic" in (the probably rather contrieved) case of someone
wanting to identify functions by the values of pointers to some static
members in them.

Philipp

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#129816

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-04-27 07:48 +1200
Message-ID<fkeoodF36cfU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#129804
On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
> 
>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
>>
>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which generates
>> the configure script),
> 
> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised language is
> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.

Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which 
you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code snippets.

-- 
Ian.

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#129817

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-04-26 21:08 +0100
Message-ID<6lqEC.16239$9t.395@fx26.am4>
In reply to#129816
On 26/04/2018 20:48, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
>>
>>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
>>>
>>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which generates
>>> the configure script),
>>
>> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
>> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised language is
>> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.
> 
> Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which 
> you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code snippets.

If I look at the 18,322-line configure file for CPython in github, then 
there are hundreds of references to gcc, a lighter sprinkling of icc, 
but remarkably few references to my compiler.

There is also this interesting snippet at line 4155:

     int
     main ()
     {
     #ifndef __GNUC__
            choke me
     #endif
       ;
       return 0;
     }

Apart from that, there are all the #ifdefs for __GNUC__ and MSV_VER you 
find in source code. It's the #elif at the end of that chain of 
conditional blocks (or worse, just #endif) that can be problematical.

-- 
bartc

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#129818

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-04-27 08:18 +1200
Message-ID<fkeqg5F36cfU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#129817
On 04/27/2018 08:08 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 26/04/2018 20:48, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>>> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>>>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
>>>
>>>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
>>>>
>>>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which generates
>>>> the configure script),
>>>
>>> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
>>> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised language is
>>> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.
>>
>> Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which
>> you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code snippets.
> 
> If I look at the 18,322-line configure file for CPython in github, then
> there are hundreds of references to gcc, a lighter sprinkling of icc,
> but remarkably few references to my compiler.

Did you actually read what I wrote?  How do you think I ported numerous 
Linux centric open source projects to Solaris building with Sun's compilers?

-- 
Ian.

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#129820

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-04-26 21:44 +0100
Message-ID<hSqEC.92030$Xa4.723@fx29.am4>
In reply to#129818
On 26/04/2018 21:18, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 08:08 AM, bartc wrote:
>> On 26/04/2018 20:48, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>>>> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>>>>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
>>>>>
>>>>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which generates
>>>>> the configure script),
>>>>
>>>> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
>>>> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised 
>>>> language is
>>>> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.
>>>
>>> Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which
>>> you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code 
>>> snippets.
>>
>> If I look at the 18,322-line configure file for CPython in github, then
>> there are hundreds of references to gcc, a lighter sprinkling of icc,
>> but remarkably few references to my compiler.
> 
> Did you actually read what I wrote?  How do you think I ported numerous 
> Linux centric open source projects to Solaris building with Sun's 
> compilers?

Was that with the 'choke me' message for non-GNUC users in the middle of 
the configure file?

Anyway I don't care about other people's gigantic projects; they can use 
whatever systems they like.

I care about the ones /I/ want to build where this stuff is forced down 
my throat.


-- 
bartc

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#129821

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-04-27 09:01 +1200
Message-ID<fket0dF36cfU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#129820
On 04/27/2018 08:44 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 26/04/2018 21:18, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 04/27/2018 08:08 AM, bartc wrote:
>>> On 26/04/2018 20:48, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>> On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>>>>> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>>>>>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which generates
>>>>>> the configure script),
>>>>>
>>>>> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
>>>>> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised
>>>>> language is
>>>>> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.
>>>>
>>>> Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which
>>>> you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code
>>>> snippets.
>>>
>>> If I look at the 18,322-line configure file for CPython in github, then
>>> there are hundreds of references to gcc, a lighter sprinkling of icc,
>>> but remarkably few references to my compiler.
>>
>> Did you actually read what I wrote?  How do you think I ported numerous
>> Linux centric open source projects to Solaris building with Sun's
>> compilers?
> 
> Was that with the 'choke me' message for non-GNUC users in the middle of
> the configure file?
> 
> Anyway I don't care about other people's gigantic projects; they can use
> whatever systems they like.
> 
> I care about the ones /I/ want to build where this stuff is forced down
> my throat.

You don't care to read what people write ether, do you?  Just as a quick 
experiment to see how hard it is to build CPython on something other 
than Linux without gcc:

export CC=/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc
export CPP="/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc -E"
./configure --without-gcc --prefix=/opt/local --enable-optimizations
make -J 8
make install
/opt/local/bin/python3.8 --version
Python 3.8.0a0
ls -l /opt/local/bin/python3.8
-rwxr-xr-x   2 root     root     3427860 Apr 27 08:54 
/opt/local/bin/python3.8

Wow, that was so hard...

-- 
Ian.

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#129826

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-04-26 23:16 +0100
Message-ID<BcsEC.25942$ga6.7856@fx24.am4>
In reply to#129821
On 26/04/2018 22:01, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 08:44 AM, bartc wrote:
>> On 26/04/2018 21:18, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> On 04/27/2018 08:08 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>> On 26/04/2018 20:48, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>>> On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>>>>>> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which 
>>>>>>> generates
>>>>>>> the configure script),
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
>>>>>> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised
>>>>>> language is
>>>>>> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which
>>>>> you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code
>>>>> snippets.
>>>>
>>>> If I look at the 18,322-line configure file for CPython in github, then
>>>> there are hundreds of references to gcc, a lighter sprinkling of icc,
>>>> but remarkably few references to my compiler.
>>>
>>> Did you actually read what I wrote?  How do you think I ported numerous
>>> Linux centric open source projects to Solaris building with Sun's
>>> compilers?
>>
>> Was that with the 'choke me' message for non-GNUC users in the middle of
>> the configure file?
>>
>> Anyway I don't care about other people's gigantic projects; they can use
>> whatever systems they like.
>>
>> I care about the ones /I/ want to build where this stuff is forced down
>> my throat.
> 
> You don't care to read what people write ether, do you?  Just as a quick 
> experiment to see how hard it is to build CPython on something other 
> than Linux without gcc:
> 
> export CC=/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc
> export CPP="/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc -E"
> ./configure --without-gcc --prefix=/opt/local --enable-optimizations
> make -J 8
> make install
> /opt/local/bin/python3.8 --version
> Python 3.8.0a0
> ls -l /opt/local/bin/python3.8
> -rwxr-xr-x   2 root     root     3427860 Apr 27 08:54 
> /opt/local/bin/python3.8
> 
> Wow, that was so hard...

Some questions:

* How did you manage to do ./configure on that other machine? Or does it 
just work because, after all, they are both really Unix?

* Do you try this on Windows?

* What does that other compiler return for the value of __GNUC__? If not 
defined, how does it manage to avoid that trap in the middle of configure?

* What macro does that cc compiler export as its identifier? CPython 
sources explicitly test for MS_WINDOWS, BORLANDC, WATCOMC, DJGPP, GNUC, 
SUNPROC_C, SGI, and SOLARIS among others.

The fact is that on Windows, CPython can't be built with gcc, so they 
have to have a VS solution (which is even more problematic). The build 
process is just too complex.

Another question: with whatever compiler was used on that other machine, 
do you think it worked perfectly the first time it was used to compile 
CPython, without the need to touch 'configure' at all or any part of the 
CPython sources?

Or is it possible that what you are seeing represents a considerable 
amount of work to make it happen?

-- 
bartc

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#129827

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-04-27 10:27 +1200
Message-ID<fkf220Fi91uU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#129826
On 04/27/2018 10:16 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 26/04/2018 22:01, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 04/27/2018 08:44 AM, bartc wrote:
>>> On 26/04/2018 21:18, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>> On 04/27/2018 08:08 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>>> On 26/04/2018 20:48, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>>>> On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
>>>>>>> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which
>>>>>>>> generates
>>>>>>>> the configure script),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
>>>>>>> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised
>>>>>>> language is
>>>>>>> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which
>>>>>> you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code
>>>>>> snippets.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I look at the 18,322-line configure file for CPython in github, then
>>>>> there are hundreds of references to gcc, a lighter sprinkling of icc,
>>>>> but remarkably few references to my compiler.
>>>>
>>>> Did you actually read what I wrote?  How do you think I ported numerous
>>>> Linux centric open source projects to Solaris building with Sun's
>>>> compilers?
>>>
>>> Was that with the 'choke me' message for non-GNUC users in the middle of
>>> the configure file?
>>>
>>> Anyway I don't care about other people's gigantic projects; they can use
>>> whatever systems they like.
>>>
>>> I care about the ones /I/ want to build where this stuff is forced down
>>> my throat.
>>
>> You don't care to read what people write ether, do you?  Just as a quick
>> experiment to see how hard it is to build CPython on something other
>> than Linux without gcc:
>>
>> export CC=/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc
>> export CPP="/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc -E"
>> ./configure --without-gcc --prefix=/opt/local --enable-optimizations
>> make -J 8
>> make install
>> /opt/local/bin/python3.8 --version
>> Python 3.8.0a0
>> ls -l /opt/local/bin/python3.8
>> -rwxr-xr-x   2 root     root     3427860 Apr 27 08:54
>> /opt/local/bin/python3.8
>>
>> Wow, that was so hard...
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> * How did you manage to do ./configure on that other machine? Or does it
> just work because, after all, they are both really Unix?
> 
> * Do you try this on Windows?

I don't have a Windows machine.

> * What does that other compiler return for the value of __GNUC__? If not
> defined, how does it manage to avoid that trap in the middle of configure?

I don't care, I configured with "--without-gcc".

> * What macro does that cc compiler export as its identifier? CPython
> sources explicitly test for MS_WINDOWS, BORLANDC, WATCOMC, DJGPP, GNUC,
> SUNPROC_C, SGI, and SOLARIS among others.
> 
> The fact is that on Windows, CPython can't be built with gcc, so they
> have to have a VS solution (which is even more problematic). The build
> process is just too complex.

That's Windows for you.  You could just do what our developers with 
Windows desktops do and use Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL).

> Another question: with whatever compiler was used on that other machine,
> do you think it worked perfectly the first time it was used to compile
> CPython, without the need to touch 'configure' at all or any part of the
> CPython sources?

Why should it?  That's not how the build system is designed.

> Or is it possible that what you are seeing represents a considerable
> amount of work to make it happen?

Someone else's work, not mine.

CPython is something called a "project" which has people called 
"maintainers".  I suggest you familiarise yourself with those terms.

-- 
Ian.

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#129830

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-04-26 23:48 +0100
Message-ID<lGsEC.12310$Pv4.1229@fx23.am4>
In reply to#129827
On 26/04/2018 23:27, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 10:16 AM, bartc wrote:

>> Or is it possible that what you are seeing represents a considerable
>> amount of work to make it happen?
> 
> Someone else's work, not mine.

So it's possible that there were lots of problems just like I see.

(Out of interest, what happens when you compile that pcc64.c file I 
linked to earlier [1] on that other machine, assuming it's 64-bit capable?

The highly complex build instructions are these:

   * Compile pcc64.c to an executable with a C compiler

Example for gcc Linux:

     gcc -m64 pcc64.c -opcc -lm


([1] http://home.freeuk.com/bcas/pcc64.c)


-- 
bartc

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#129845

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-04-27 20:41 +1200
Message-ID<fkg61mFi91uU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#129830
On 04/27/2018 10:48 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 26/04/2018 23:27, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 04/27/2018 10:16 AM, bartc wrote:
> 
>>> Or is it possible that what you are seeing represents a considerable
>>> amount of work to make it happen?
>>
>> Someone else's work, not mine.
> 
> So it's possible that there were lots of problems just like I see.

Problems long solved by the build system.

> (Out of interest, what happens when you compile that pcc64.c file I
> linked to earlier [1] on that other machine, assuming it's 64-bit capable?

It breaks the current version of the compiler, an older version rejects 
it with 3101 warnings/errors.  Mostly along the lines of

"pcc64.c", line 2785: cannot use an address to initialize a field of a 
packed struct (#pragma pack)

and

"pcc64.c", line 16749: improper member use: mutable

and

"pcc64.c", line 3395: warning: initialization type mismatch

--
Ian

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#129851

Frombartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2018-04-27 11:51 +0100
Message-ID<LgDEC.29568$Hc3.19774@fx30.am4>
In reply to#129845
On 27/04/2018 09:41, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 10:48 AM, bartc wrote:

>> (Out of interest, what happens when you compile that pcc64.c file I
>> linked to earlier [1] on that other machine, assuming it's 64-bit 
>> capable?
> 
> It breaks the current version of the compiler, an older version rejects 
> it with 3101 warnings/errors.  Mostly along the lines of
> 
> "pcc64.c", line 2785: cannot use an address to initialize a field of a 
> packed struct (#pragma pack)
> 
> and
> 
> "pcc64.c", line 16749: improper member use: mutable

(Warning or error? And what's wrong with it? ('mutable' is a member of 
an anonymous union.))

> and
> 
> "pcc64.c", line 3395: warning: initialization type mismatch

OK, thanks. If I add as many options as I can find, I get roughly 2000 
warnings (mostly about unused stuff), for example:

gcc -m64 -Wall -Wextra -Wformat=2 -Wno-format-nonliteral -Wshadow 
-Wpointer-arith -Wcast-qual -Wmissing-prototypes -Wno-missing-braces 
-std=c11 -D_GNU_SOURCE pcc64.c -opcc64.exe

but no errors. The pcc64.exe program is produced, and it will run, 
giving a usage message.

What options did you use? (Pretty strict I would bet.)

With C compilers as I normally use them:

    gcc (5.1.0 Windows)    0 warnings
    Pelles C             500 warnings (unused labels, unreachable code)
    lccwin                30 warnings
    MSVC                   3 warnings
    Tiny C                 0 warnings (don't know if it does warnings)
    bcc                  ---          (does not generate warnings)
    gcc (4.4.2 Linux)      1 warning  (overflow in numeric constant)
    gcc (6.2.0 Linux)      4 warnings (printf argument mismatch)
    DMC                   23 warnings (possible unintended assignments)

It's nice to see how much in agreement C compilers can be about what 
might be amiss in a program!

 > It breaks the current version of the compiler

What do you mean by it breaks it?

-- 
bartc

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#129871

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2018-04-28 07:32 +1200
Message-ID<fkhc61Fi91uU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#129851
On 04/27/2018 10:51 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 27/04/2018 09:41, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 04/27/2018 10:48 AM, bartc wrote:
> 
>>> (Out of interest, what happens when you compile that pcc64.c file I
>>> linked to earlier [1] on that other machine, assuming it's 64-bit
>>> capable?
>>
>> It breaks the current version of the compiler, an older version rejects
>> it with 3101 warnings/errors.  Mostly along the lines of
>>
>> "pcc64.c", line 2785: cannot use an address to initialize a field of a
>> packed struct (#pragma pack)
>>
>> and
>>
>> "pcc64.c", line 16749: improper member use: mutable
> 
> (Warning or error? And what's wrong with it? ('mutable' is a member of
> an anonymous union.))

C99 doesn't have anonymous unions...  That compiler's default mode is 
roughly equivalent to "gcc -std=c99 -pedantic"

>> and
>>
>> "pcc64.c", line 3395: warning: initialization type mismatch
> 
> OK, thanks. If I add as many options as I can find, I get roughly 2000
> warnings (mostly about unused stuff), for example:
> 
> gcc -m64 -Wall -Wextra -Wformat=2 -Wno-format-nonliteral -Wshadow
> -Wpointer-arith -Wcast-qual -Wmissing-prototypes -Wno-missing-braces
> -std=c11 -D_GNU_SOURCE pcc64.c -opcc64.exe
> 
> but no errors. The pcc64.exe program is produced, and it will run,
> giving a usage message.
> 
> What options did you use? (Pretty strict I would bet.)
> 
> With C compilers as I normally use them:
> 
>      gcc (5.1.0 Windows)    0 warnings
>      Pelles C             500 warnings (unused labels, unreachable code)
>      lccwin                30 warnings
>      MSVC                   3 warnings
>      Tiny C                 0 warnings (don't know if it does warnings)
>      bcc                  ---          (does not generate warnings)
>      gcc (4.4.2 Linux)      1 warning  (overflow in numeric constant)
>      gcc (6.2.0 Linux)      4 warnings (printf argument mismatch)
>      DMC                   23 warnings (possible unintended assignments)
> 
> It's nice to see how much in agreement C compilers can be about what
> might be amiss in a program!
> 
>   > It breaks the current version of the compiler
> 
> What do you mean by it breaks it?

It warns that an internal static error checker encountered an unexpected 
error.  It does produce an executable output with 49 warnings, its 
default mode is c11.

-- 
Ian

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#129889

FromSteven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-28 04:34 -0700
Message-ID<8d25eac7-251c-4f49-91a2-bbc8cd6c58d2@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#129851
On Friday, April 27, 2018 at 3:51:31 AM UTC-7, Bart wrote:
> On 27/04/2018 09:41, Ian Collins wrote:
> > On 04/27/2018 10:48 AM, bartc wrote:
> 
> >> (Out of interest, what happens when you compile that pcc64.c file I
> >> linked to earlier [1] on that other machine, assuming it's 64-bit 
> >> capable?
> > 
> > It breaks the current version of the compiler, an older version rejects 
> > it with 3101 warnings/errors.  Mostly along the lines of
> > 
> > "pcc64.c", line 2785: cannot use an address to initialize a field of a 
> > packed struct (#pragma pack)
> > 
> > and
> > 
> > "pcc64.c", line 16749: improper member use: mutable
> 
> (Warning or error? And what's wrong with it? ('mutable' is a member of 
> an anonymous union.))
> 
> > and
> > 
> > "pcc64.c", line 3395: warning: initialization type mismatch
> 
> OK, thanks. If I add as many options as I can find, I get roughly 2000 
> warnings (mostly about unused stuff), for example:
> 
> gcc -m64 -Wall -Wextra -Wformat=2 -Wno-format-nonliteral -Wshadow 
> -Wpointer-arith -Wcast-qual -Wmissing-prototypes -Wno-missing-braces 
> -std=c11 -D_GNU_SOURCE pcc64.c -opcc64.exe
> 
> but no errors. The pcc64.exe program is produced, and it will run, 
> giving a usage message.
> 
> What options did you use? (Pretty strict I would bet.)
> 
> With C compilers as I normally use them:
> 
>     gcc (5.1.0 Windows)    0 warnings
>     Pelles C             500 warnings (unused labels, unreachable code)
>     lccwin                30 warnings
>     MSVC                   3 warnings
>     Tiny C                 0 warnings (don't know if it does warnings)
>     bcc                  ---          (does not generate warnings)
>     gcc (4.4.2 Linux)      1 warning  (overflow in numeric constant)
>     gcc (6.2.0 Linux)      4 warnings (printf argument mismatch)
>     DMC                   23 warnings (possible unintended assignments)
> 
> It's nice to see how much in agreement C compilers can be about what 
> might be amiss in a program!
> 
>  > It breaks the current version of the compiler
> 
> What do you mean by it breaks it?
> 
> -- 
> bartc



"Now that was close" said Lewis's husband. It's easy to exaggerate by focusing on hardly any special cases unrepresentative from what's something more common like KDE. What matters more from an honest advocates opinion are the regular uses. Both Graham Bell and Lewis had their public farts and their messes. One played it cool and didn't do anything too outrageous that could not be re-done in a way that made it look like he had a clue. Oh goodness, that is just tons of rot. 

--
What Every Entrepreneur Must Know
http://www.macadvocacy.pw/2005/Nov/09/236626.html
http://www.5z8.info/racist-raps_r6r3wf_best-russian-sites-for-bootleg-everything
Jonas Eklundh

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#129840

FromSteven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com>
Date2018-04-26 23:05 -0700
Message-ID<da6d3658-b82b-4e11-b9ce-1eef7b1e4391@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#129827
On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 3:27:22 PM UTC-7, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 04/27/2018 10:16 AM, bartc wrote:
> > On 26/04/2018 22:01, Ian Collins wrote:
> >> On 04/27/2018 08:44 AM, bartc wrote:
> >>> On 26/04/2018 21:18, Ian Collins wrote:
> >>>> On 04/27/2018 08:08 AM, bartc wrote:
> >>>>> On 26/04/2018 20:48, Ian Collins wrote:
> >>>>>> On 04/27/2018 05:04 AM, Philipp Klaus Krause wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 26/04/2018 12:26, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 25-04-18 17:21, bartc wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> All this I find quite typical of open source C code.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> IME, provided your compiler is recognized by autoconf (which
> >>>>>>>> generates
> >>>>>>>> the configure script),
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My private compiler won't be. But why should it; it's just C code,
> >>>>>>> right? The whole point of everyone writing in a standardised
> >>>>>>> language is
> >>>>>>> so that you can apply any C compiler to any program.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Why wouldn't it be recognised?  Autoconf just uses the compiler (which
> >>>>>> you can identify with "CC=<your compiler>" to compile test code
> >>>>>> snippets.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I look at the 18,322-line configure file for CPython in github, then
> >>>>> there are hundreds of references to gcc, a lighter sprinkling of icc,
> >>>>> but remarkably few references to my compiler.
> >>>>
> >>>> Did you actually read what I wrote?  How do you think I ported numerous
> >>>> Linux centric open source projects to Solaris building with Sun's
> >>>> compilers?
> >>>
> >>> Was that with the 'choke me' message for non-GNUC users in the middle of
> >>> the configure file?
> >>>
> >>> Anyway I don't care about other people's gigantic projects; they can use
> >>> whatever systems they like.
> >>>
> >>> I care about the ones /I/ want to build where this stuff is forced down
> >>> my throat.
> >>
> >> You don't care to read what people write ether, do you?  Just as a quick
> >> experiment to see how hard it is to build CPython on something other
> >> than Linux without gcc:
> >>
> >> export CC=/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc
> >> export CPP="/opt/OracleDeveloperStudio12.6/bin/cc -E"
> >> ./configure --without-gcc --prefix=/opt/local --enable-optimizations
> >> make -J 8
> >> make install
> >> /opt/local/bin/python3.8 --version
> >> Python 3.8.0a0
> >> ls -l /opt/local/bin/python3.8
> >> -rwxr-xr-x   2 root     root     3427860 Apr 27 08:54
> >> /opt/local/bin/python3.8
> >>
> >> Wow, that was so hard...
> > 
> > Some questions:
> > 
> > * How did you manage to do ./configure on that other machine? Or does it
> > just work because, after all, they are both really Unix?
> > 
> > * Do you try this on Windows?
> 
> I don't have a Windows machine.
> 
> > * What does that other compiler return for the value of __GNUC__? If not
> > defined, how does it manage to avoid that trap in the middle of configure?
> 
> I don't care, I configured with "--without-gcc".
> 
> > * What macro does that cc compiler export as its identifier? CPython
> > sources explicitly test for MS_WINDOWS, BORLANDC, WATCOMC, DJGPP, GNUC,
> > SUNPROC_C, SGI, and SOLARIS among others.
> > 
> > The fact is that on Windows, CPython can't be built with gcc, so they
> > have to have a VS solution (which is even more problematic). The build
> > process is just too complex.
> 
> That's Windows for you.  You could just do what our developers with 
> Windows desktops do and use Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL).
> 
> > Another question: with whatever compiler was used on that other machine,
> > do you think it worked perfectly the first time it was used to compile
> > CPython, without the need to touch 'configure' at all or any part of the
> > CPython sources?
> 
> Why should it?  That's not how the build system is designed.
> 
> > Or is it possible that what you are seeing represents a considerable
> > amount of work to make it happen?
> 
> Someone else's work, not mine.
> 
> CPython is something called a "project" which has people called 
> "maintainers".  I suggest you familiarise yourself with those terms.
> 
> -- 
> Ian.



Honestly, those of you who troll are not able to restrain KDE anymore. 

It was Thiago 'The Shill' Adams who stated that he and his college buddies used to steal candy from toddlers all the time and it was just fun. 

Why do you keep repeating yourself? 

I am a complete devotee of KDE, because that's where all the compelling modernization is happening. Open source is only less expensive if your time has no value. 

The "advocates" value conformity more than they do productivity. 

Thiago 'The Shill' Adams asked to be rated according to direct statistical evidence, which I obliged him with. 



--
Do not click this link!
http://www.5z8.info/open.exe_f2s2ea_nazi
http://www.5z8.info/boobs_j0v3qo_dont-just-drizzle
Jonas Eklundh Communication

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#129831

Fromjacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr>
Date2018-04-27 00:52 +0200
Message-ID<pbtl7m$c8a$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#129826
Le 27/04/2018 à 00:16, bartc a écrit :
> * Do you try this on Windows?

Dear Bart:

Using Microsoft system is problematic, as you see, you can't do that on 
windows.

And you can't do many other things. Yes, you can use the machine and 
program it as you want if you put the necessary effort, but it is a pain 
to use that system.

I coped for years with Microsoft, but they stopped supporting C, and 
even C++ is suspect now... Only C# (that replaced basic as the language 
of the company of B. Gates) is now "in vogue", and I did find building 
tools in that system increasingly difficult, as I reported in this 
discussion group some years ago.

When I used windows however I was always aware that I would have to port 
anything that comes from the Unix world. Most of the time it was 
relatively easy. "bzero" was to be replaced by memset or similar stuff.

More difficult to port were pthreads and network code, where I could 
earn some consulting fees.

But never I would have thought that taking a piece of unix software and 
trying to compile it blindly would work, sorry. I just knew it would not 
work. True, I never proved it, and now you have proved it Bart.

IT IS OFFICIAL:

Bart has PROVED that trying to compile Unix software will not work on 
windows "as is"...

This tremendous fact, known to all but Bart has been officially closed: 
BART has proved to himself that compiling unix code doesn't work on windows.

I hope you are proud of your achievement and go on ranting as usual.


Yours sincerely

jacob

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#129834

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2018-04-26 16:23 -0700
Message-ID<05cdde0f-bd9a-480f-9a26-63872dc767c7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#129831
On Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 5:52:45 PM UTC-5, jacobnavia wrote:
> Using Microsoft system is problematic, as you see, you can't do that on 
> windows.

I don't think Windows is unique.  Really, the problem is that a lot of
programs aren't really written in C--they're written in Unix's combination
of C, scripts, etc.

> And you can't do many other things. Yes, you can use the machine and 
> program it as you want if you put the necessary effort, but it is a pain 
> to use that system.

Many people do many useful things with Windows, but many Unix programmers
regard that notion as mythical.

> I coped for years with Microsoft, but they stopped supporting C, and 
> even C++ is suspect now... Only C# (that replaced basic as the language 
> of the company of B. Gates) is now "in vogue", and I did find building 
> tools in that system increasingly difficult, as I reported in this 
> discussion group some years ago.

The languages processed by MSVC and gcc have diverged from each other,
largely because MSVC has sought to remain compatible with older versions
of the language extending back even before C89, without regard for whether
the Standard required it to do so.

It's been awhile since I've done native C programming on the PC, but I
thought MSVC seemed like a perfectly fine development environment.

> But never I would have thought that taking a piece of unix software and 
> trying to compile it blindly would work, sorry. I just knew it would not 
> work. True, I never proved it, and now you have proved it Bart.

If a command-line application doesn't do anything not supported by the
Standard library, why shouldn't it be written to "just work" on pretty
much any machine that supports 8/16/32/64-bit numeric types, rather than
only on Unix machines?

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