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Groups > comp.lang.c > #103912 > unrolled thread

What if pre-processor was moved to parser?

Started byThiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>
First post2017-02-14 15:37 -0800
Last post2017-04-26 09:58 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 147 — 26 participants

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  What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-14 15:37 -0800
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 00:05 -0800
      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 00:57 -0800
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:21 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 07:24 -0800
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:10 -0800
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 03:05 -0800
      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 11:38 +0000
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 04:28 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 13:22 +0000
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 05:47 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 10:06 -0800
        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 05:24 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 13:57 +0000
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 10:27 -0800
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-15 15:16 +0000
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 08:14 -0800
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-15 18:01 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 18:25 +0000
                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-02-15 19:14 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-15 10:25 -0800
                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 18:45 +0000
                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 20:03 +0100
          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-15 10:12 -0800
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-15 10:51 -0800
            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:14 -0800
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-15 20:25 +0000
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:50 -0800
                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-16 11:50 +0000
                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 04:44 -0800
                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 05:28 -0800
                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-16 14:32 +0000
                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 09:13 -0800
                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 10:38 -0800
                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 11:55 -0800
                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 12:24 -0800
                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-16 21:32 +0100
                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 12:55 -0800
                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-16 22:41 +0100
                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 14:02 -0800
                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 15:08 -0800
                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-16 13:32 -0800
                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-17 21:19 +1300
                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 12:01 +0100
                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 09:16 -0800
                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 18:55 +0100
                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 08:07 +1300
                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-17 20:12 +0100
                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:04 +1300
                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-17 22:38 +0000
                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 11:47 +1300
                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 14:55 -0800
                                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 12:11 +1300
                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2017-02-17 15:26 -0800
                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 16:15 -0800
                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:22 +1300
                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-17 16:37 -0800
                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-18 11:57 +0100
                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 07:13 +0000
                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 20:26 +1300
                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 09:17 +0000
                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 01:18 +0100
                                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 13:23 +1300
                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 01:45 +0100
                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 16:18 +1300
                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 07:19 +0000
                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-18 20:30 +1300
                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 09:18 +0000
                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-18 07:15 -0800
                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:24 -0800
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-24 17:51 +0000
                                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-24 10:08 -0700
                                                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-04-24 18:58 +0100
                                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2017-04-26 05:03 +0000
                                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-30 11:21 -0700
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 09:15 +1300
                                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 17:29 -0800
                                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-04-26 06:19 -0700
                                                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 16:04 +0200
                                                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 07:08 -0700
                                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 16:46 +0200
                                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 09:32 -0700
                                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 20:19 +0200
                                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 11:29 -0700
                                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2017-04-26 18:51 +0000
                                                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-27 09:32 +1200
                                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-27 11:01 +0200
                                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 02:23 -0700
                                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-04-27 21:31 +1200
                                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2017-04-27 16:15 +0000
                                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-04-27 09:35 -0700
                                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-28 15:12 +0200
                                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 19:13 +0100
                                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-04-27 11:37 +0200
                                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-04-27 15:18 +0200
                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-18 08:43 +0100
                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-02-18 09:22 +0000
                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-18 09:44 -0800
                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 11:33 +0000
                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-18 13:25 +0100
                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 13:47 +0000
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-18 15:23 +0100
                                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 14:53 +0000
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-18 16:56 +0000
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-18 22:50 -0600
                                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 09:45 +0100
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-19 13:35 +0100
                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-02-18 11:24 -0500
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-18 22:48 -0600
                                                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-18 10:04 -0800
                                                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-19 17:12 +0100
                                                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-19 11:11 -0800
                                                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-19 21:14 +0100
                                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 21:22 +0100
                                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-19 12:33 -0800
                                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-19 12:31 -0800
                                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 13:14 -0800
                                                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 14:50 -0800
                                                                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 15:04 -0800
                                                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-20 10:13 +0100
                                                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Gareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2017-02-19 21:09 +0000
                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 15:32 -0800
                                      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-24 12:44 +1300
                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 21:04 -0800
                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-19 21:14 -0800
                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-16 14:48 -0800
                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 15:46 -0800
                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-23 16:16 -0800
                        Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 04:18 -0800
                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-20 06:47 -0800
                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 09:50 -0800
                              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 04:33 -0800
                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 15:41 +0100
                                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-21 09:39 -0800
                                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 09:59 -0800
                                    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? TickleMe Elmo <tmelmosfire@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 10:22 -0800
                          Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-02-20 15:49 +0000
                            Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-20 09:43 -0800
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 12:31 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-16 03:33 -0800
              Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2017-02-15 12:47 -0800
                Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 13:06 -0800
                  Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-02-15 13:15 -0800
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "Patrick.Schluter" <Patrick.Schluter@free.fr> - 2017-02-18 12:36 +0100
      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? "Patrick.Schluter" <Patrick.Schluter@free.fr> - 2017-02-18 12:41 +0100
    Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 09:42 -0700
      Re: What if pre-processor was moved to parser? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2017-04-26 09:58 -0700

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#108535

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-26 16:46 +0200
Message-ID<20170426164657.291e9f91a8f94cb369f4f124@gmail.com>
In reply to#108531
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have 17 years of C++, but my style of programming changed in a 
> way were C++ has no more big advantages over C.
> Every time I program in C I can compare in my mind how it 
> would be implemented in C++.
> I can contribute on this subject.

Please consider selling your C++ boobs on the C++ group. ;-)

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#108540

FromThiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-26 09:32 -0700
Message-ID<0173d6d9-ee99-48d3-be47-590fbe97273d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#108535
On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 11:49:54 AM UTC-3, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
> Thiago Adams  wrote:
> 
> > I have 17 years of C++, but my style of programming changed in a 
> > way were C++ has no more big advantages over C.
> > Every time I program in C I can compare in my mind how it 
> > would be implemented in C++.
> > I can contribute on this subject.
> 
> Please consider selling your C++ boobs on the C++ group. ;-)

Sorry, I didn't understand your comment. But it seems to be something of bad taste, and if it is, I ask you to avoid speaking to me and others like that. This kind of comment don't help in any sense.

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#108554

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-26 20:19 +0200
Message-ID<20170426201944.99428505a4823bc37acd1467@gmail.com>
In reply to#108540
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 09:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, I didn't understand your comment. But it seems to be something of bad
>taste, and if it is, I ask you to avoid speaking to me and others like that.
> This kind of comment don't help in any sense.

In other words, stop your C++ masturbation there's no cheerleaders here.

I don't give a f*ck of your 17 years of C++ if you can't properly understand
standard C.

I'm sorry to be a bit rude but I'm completely tired of reading C++ craps here
without any purpose if not promoting C++ (and your ego) in the C group.

Should we spam the C++ group to balance the pile of sh!t on the balance?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#108555

FromThiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-26 11:29 -0700
Message-ID<6de2b82f-bf93-4999-a79b-56442409d656@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#108554
On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-3, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 09:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
> Thiago Adams <> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry, I didn't understand your comment. But it seems to be something of bad
> >taste, and if it is, I ask you to avoid speaking to me and others like that.
> > This kind of comment don't help in any sense.
> 
> In other words, stop your C++ masturbation there's no cheerleaders here.
> 
> I don't give a f*ck of your 17 years of C++ if you can't properly understand
> standard C.
> 
> I'm sorry to be a bit rude but I'm completely tired of reading C++ craps here
> without any purpose if not promoting C++ (and your ego) in the C group.
> 
> Should we spam the C++ group to balance the pile of sh!t on the balance?

You can say whatever you want without being rude.
My intention of saying how many years I have of C++ was not
to promoting myself, but to say that I can contribute to 
the subject (C x C++). As I said, I don't see big 
advantages in C++ compared with C considering the style of 
programming I am using.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#108557

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2017-04-26 18:51 +0000
Message-ID<y_5MA.6726$3%2.2769@fx09.iad>
In reply to#108554
GOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com> writes:

>I'm sorry to be a bit rude

No, you're not.  It's your Raison D'etre.

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#108570

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-04-27 09:32 +1200
Message-ID<emchvcFkt88U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#108528
On 04/27/17 01:19 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 02/25/17 06:24 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 02/18/17 08:19 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You know what they say:  Lisp is for people who think resource
>>>>> management is far too important to be left to the programmer, and
>>>>> C is for people who think resource management is far too
>>>>> important to be left to the machine.
>>>>
>>>> And C++ sits on the fence!
>>>
>>> Evangelists annoy me.  Evangelizing C++ is no more appropriate
>>> here than any other off-topic evangelizing.  I'd appreciate it if
>>> you would stop doing that.
>>
>> Curmudgeons annoy me.  Are you as curmudgeonly and humourless in the
>> flesh?  Do I really have to add a smiley to every tongue in cheek
>> comment?
>
> I didn't take your comment as tongue-in-cheek, but either
> way prompts the same reaction.

That explains most of what follows.

>> By what measure is "C++ sits on the fence" evangelising?
>
> You post here about C++ a lot, noticeably more than you do about
> C.  Moreover you frequently introduce C++ into threads on other
> topics,

Usually for similar reasons other posters mention other languages: to 
compare the way things are done in other languages with the way they are 
done in C.  Others will be suggestions for adding bits from C++ to C 
that would benefit C without breaking existing code.

> Do you know the difference between a zealot and a fanatic?
> Zealots can't change their mind;  fanatics can't change their
> mind, and won't change the subject.

Which of those analyses a whole year of someone else's posts?

I didn't reply to your other post due to still being in a state of shock...

-- 
Ian

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#108581

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-04-27 11:01 +0200
Message-ID<odsbqh$dli$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#108570
On 26/04/17 23:32, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 04/27/17 01:19 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 02/25/17 06:24 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/18/17 08:19 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You know what they say:  Lisp is for people who think resource
>>>>>> management is far too important to be left to the programmer, and
>>>>>> C is for people who think resource management is far too
>>>>>> important to be left to the machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> And C++ sits on the fence!
>>>>
>>>> Evangelists annoy me.  Evangelizing C++ is no more appropriate
>>>> here than any other off-topic evangelizing.  I'd appreciate it if
>>>> you would stop doing that.
>>>
>>> Curmudgeons annoy me.  Are you as curmudgeonly and humourless in the
>>> flesh?  Do I really have to add a smiley to every tongue in cheek
>>> comment?
>>
>> I didn't take your comment as tongue-in-cheek, but either
>> way prompts the same reaction.
> 
> That explains most of what follows.
> 
>>> By what measure is "C++ sits on the fence" evangelising?
>>
>> You post here about C++ a lot, noticeably more than you do about
>> C.  Moreover you frequently introduce C++ into threads on other
>> topics,
> 
> Usually for similar reasons other posters mention other languages: to
> compare the way things are done in other languages with the way they are
> done in C.  Others will be suggestions for adding bits from C++ to C
> that would benefit C without breaking existing code.
> 

C++ /is/ relevant in this newsgroup, as are other programming languages,
as long as they are in the context of comparisons with C, influence on
C, mixing with C, etc.  A language, or a user of a language, progresses
by learning from other sources for ideas and inspiration, including
other programming languages - not by blocking or resisting all mention
of outside forces.

C++ is particularly relevant, since most C++ programmers have regular
use of C, a good many C programmers have regular contact with C++, and a
large proportion of C code is also equally valid as C++ code.

The focus of this group is C, and postings about C++ need to be in
relation to C or the details of the particular thread.  But IMHO it is
perfectly reasonable for some posters to have a large proportion of C++
mentions in their posts in a C newsgroup.  If a programmer works mainly
with C++, and his interest in C is largely in how it relates to C++
work, then it is natural that his posts in a C newsgroup will mostly be
in threads where C++ is of relevance or interest.

>> Do you know the difference between a zealot and a fanatic?
>> Zealots can't change their mind;  fanatics can't change their
>> mind, and won't change the subject.
> 
> Which of those analyses a whole year of someone else's posts?

Actually, I find that analysis slightly creepy.  Tim probably knows more
about your posts than /you/ do.

> 
> I didn't reply to your other post due to still being in a state of shock...
> 

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#108583

FromMalcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-27 02:23 -0700
Message-ID<bf9ef2e2-6cd3-4719-8281-bf9830d5c7bf@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#108581
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:01:15 AM UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
> On 26/04/17 23:32, Ian Collins wrote:
> > On 04/27/17 01:19 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> >
> >> You post here about C++ a lot, noticeably more than you do about
> >> C.  Moreover you frequently introduce C++ into threads on other
> >> topics,
> > 
> > Usually for similar reasons other posters mention other languages: to
> > compare the way things are done in other languages with the way they are
> > done in C.  Others will be suggestions for adding bits from C++ to C
> > that would benefit C without breaking existing code.
> > 
> 
> C++ /is/ relevant in this newsgroup, as are other programming languages,
> as long as they are in the context of comparisons with C, influence on
> C, mixing with C, etc.  A language, or a user of a language, progresses
> by learning from other sources for ideas and inspiration, including
> other programming languages - not by blocking or resisting all mention
> of outside forces.
> 
C++ is conceited language. If I tried to sell a type of soda as "Coke++" the
Coca Cola company would stop me. They'd say I was damaging their brand
by implying that mine was superior, whilst at the same time piggy-backing
on it to get an immediate base. And any court would agree with them. 

Then it's very annoying for someone to assume that the reason you prefer C
to C++ is because you are not sufficiently intelligent or skilled to use C++.
But that's what a lot of C++ people think.

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#108585

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2017-04-27 21:31 +1200
Message-ID<emds32Fkt88U7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#108583
On 04/27/17 09:23 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:01:15 AM UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 26/04/17 23:32, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> On 04/27/17 01:19 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>
>>>> You post here about C++ a lot, noticeably more than you do about
>>>> C.  Moreover you frequently introduce C++ into threads on other
>>>> topics,
>>>
>>> Usually for similar reasons other posters mention other languages: to
>>> compare the way things are done in other languages with the way they are
>>> done in C.  Others will be suggestions for adding bits from C++ to C
>>> that would benefit C without breaking existing code.
>>>
>>
>> C++ /is/ relevant in this newsgroup, as are other programming languages,
>> as long as they are in the context of comparisons with C, influence on
>> C, mixing with C, etc.  A language, or a user of a language, progresses
>> by learning from other sources for ideas and inspiration, including
>> other programming languages - not by blocking or resisting all mention
>> of outside forces.
>>
> C++ is conceited language. If I tried to sell a type of soda as "Coke++" the
> Coca Cola company would stop me. They'd say I was damaging their brand
> by implying that mine was superior, whilst at the same time piggy-backing
> on it to get an immediate base. And any court would agree with them.

That's bollocks, the "++" in the name (at least when the language was 
created) simply meant C with extras.

> Then it's very annoying for someone to assume that the reason you prefer C
> to C++ is because you are not sufficiently intelligent or skilled to use C++.
> But that's what a lot of C++ people think.

Have I ever said that?  Have any of the other here who use both 
languages ever said that?  Like David, I do a lot of programming in C as 
well as C++ (and Python and ...).  It all depends which part of a 
project I am working on.

-- 
Ian

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#108609

FromIke Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
Date2017-04-27 16:15 +0000
Message-ID<slrn3vfsog46d6.ap4.ike@iceland.freeshell.org>
In reply to#108585
On 2017-04-27, Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/27/17 09:23 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:01:15 AM UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 26/04/17 23:32, Ian Collins wrote:
>>>> On 04/27/17 01:19 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You post here about C++ a lot, noticeably more than you do about
>>>>> C.  Moreover you frequently introduce C++ into threads on other
>>>>> topics,
>>>>
>>>> Usually for similar reasons other posters mention other languages: to
>>>> compare the way things are done in other languages with the way they are
>>>> done in C.  Others will be suggestions for adding bits from C++ to C
>>>> that would benefit C without breaking existing code.
>>>>
>>>
>>> C++ /is/ relevant in this newsgroup, as are other programming languages,
>>> as long as they are in the context of comparisons with C, influence on
>>> C, mixing with C, etc.  A language, or a user of a language, progresses
>>> by learning from other sources for ideas and inspiration, including
>>> other programming languages - not by blocking or resisting all mention
>>> of outside forces.
>>>
>> C++ is conceited language. If I tried to sell a type of soda as "Coke++" the
>> Coca Cola company would stop me. They'd say I was damaging their brand
>> by implying that mine was superior, whilst at the same time piggy-backing
>> on it to get an immediate base. And any court would agree with them.
>
> That's bollocks, the "++" in the name (at least when the language was 
> created) simply meant C with extras.

If x equals 42, x++ also equals 42.
If one wanted a name for "x with extras" then x++ is actually a misnomer.

x++ has the side effect of incrementing x, so, in the end, x is
better than x++ !

Perhaps x+1 would be a more appropriate name for "x with extras" than
x++ would be.

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#108610

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2017-04-27 09:35 -0700
Message-ID<b993dd66-d6ac-43d1-9f50-59b19135d946@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#108609
On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 11:19:03 AM UTC-5, Ike Naar wrote:
> If x equals 42, x++ also equals 42.
> If one wanted a name for "x with extras" then x++ is actually a misnomer.

The joke I remember from the late 1980s was "Take C.  Improve it.  Use the old
one."

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#108652

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-28 15:12 +0200
Message-ID<20170428151219.6308167af3beba3f4c0a0428@gmail.com>
In reply to#108610
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
supercat@casperkitty.com wrote:

> The joke I remember from the late 1980s was "Take C.  Improve it.  Use the old
> one."

Actually C++ (bonobo) monkeys don't need C with eXtras but only sex. :o)

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#108615

FromGareth Owen <gwowen@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-27 19:13 +0100
Message-ID<87zif1ra6l.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#108609
Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> writes:

> x++ has the side effect of incrementing x, so, in the end, x is
> better than x++ !

C++ will be C with extras, once its finished...

> Perhaps x+1 would be a more appropriate name for "x with extras" than
> x++ would be.

:)

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#108586

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-04-27 11:37 +0200
Message-ID<odsdv9$k60$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#108583
On 27/04/17 11:23, Malcolm McLean wrote:
> On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:01:15 AM UTC+1, David Brown wrote:
>> On 26/04/17 23:32, Ian Collins wrote:
>>> On 04/27/17 01:19 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>
>>>> You post here about C++ a lot, noticeably more than you do about
>>>> C.  Moreover you frequently introduce C++ into threads on other
>>>> topics,
>>>
>>> Usually for similar reasons other posters mention other languages: to
>>> compare the way things are done in other languages with the way they are
>>> done in C.  Others will be suggestions for adding bits from C++ to C
>>> that would benefit C without breaking existing code.
>>>
>>
>> C++ /is/ relevant in this newsgroup, as are other programming languages,
>> as long as they are in the context of comparisons with C, influence on
>> C, mixing with C, etc.  A language, or a user of a language, progresses
>> by learning from other sources for ideas and inspiration, including
>> other programming languages - not by blocking or resisting all mention
>> of outside forces.
>>
> C++ is conceited language. If I tried to sell a type of soda as "Coke++" the
> Coca Cola company would stop me. They'd say I was damaging their brand
> by implying that mine was superior, whilst at the same time piggy-backing
> on it to get an immediate base. And any court would agree with them. 

You do realise that there is a bit of a difference here?  C++ is a
language which was derived from the C programming language - its name is
natural and logical.  Using "C++" as a name for a programming language
is a bit like Coca Cola /themselves/ making a version of coke with extra
caffeine called "Coke++", which would be entirely reasonable.

> 
> Then it's very annoying for someone to assume that the reason you prefer C
> to C++ is because you are not sufficiently intelligent or skilled to use C++.

I would agree that would be annoying.  Fortunately, I have never heard
that opinion - or seen any indication that this opinion was implied.

> But that's what a lot of C++ people think.
> 

That is perhaps your unlucky experience, but it is not indicated by any
posts I have seen in this newsgroup.

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#108599

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-04-27 15:18 +0200
Message-ID<20170427151829.308c7233ec27a6f17afe79e3@gmail.com>
In reply to#108583
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 02:23:52 -0700 (PDT)
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> wrote:

> Then it's very annoying for someone to assume that the reason you prefer C
> to C++ is because you are not sufficiently intelligent or skilled to use C++.
> But that's what a lot of C++ people think.

Please don't feed C++ monkeys with human food. They are unable to appreciate
the french cuisine...

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#104123

FromGOTHIER Nathan <nathan.gothier@gmail.com>
Date2017-02-18 08:43 +0100
Message-ID<20170218084301.f1f3ed470a1ab96c9ea6240b@gmail.com>
In reply to#104120
On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 07:19:50 +0000
Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

> You know what they say: Lisp is for people who think resource management 
> is far too important to be left to the programmer, and C is for people 
> who think resource management is far too important to be left to the 
> machine.

This make me think about some people prefer to take a bus instead of driving
a car because they are not so confident in their own skills... :o)

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#104126

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2017-02-18 09:22 +0000
Message-ID<o893kb$gu3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104123
On 18/02/17 07:43, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 07:19:50 +0000
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> You know what they say: Lisp is for people who think resource management
>> is far too important to be left to the programmer, and C is for people
>> who think resource management is far too important to be left to the
>> machine.
>
> This make me think about some people prefer to take a bus instead of driving
> a car because they are not so confident in their own skills... :o)

And in many cases they're right. In fact, they don't have to know how to 
drive /at all/ if they take the bus - as long as they don't mind the 
journey taking a bit longer than it would by car.

Also, the bus may be cheaper than a car if one doesn't travel very 
often, and it means the roads are less cluttered with cars, making the 
journey more pleasant for those who do know how to drive cars.

A fine analogy, in fact --- but beware! Most buses don't supply seat-belts.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#104151

Fromsupercat@casperkitty.com
Date2017-02-18 09:44 -0800
Message-ID<e41988a9-fe9c-4bff-ba05-81f15e6e93cd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#104120
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 1:19:57 AM UTC-6, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> You know what they say: Lisp is for people who think resource management 
> is far too important to be left to the programmer, and C is for people 
> who think resource management is far too important to be left to the 
> machine.

I'd say LISP is for people who prefer to work with nested collections of
values, as values, rather than as a type of resource.  Ritchie's language
is for people who want the power to manage memory as a resource which can
be repurposed as the programmer sees fit, even though that means that only
fixed-sized objects can behave as values.

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#104132

FromBartC <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2017-02-18 11:33 +0000
Message-ID<o89bb1$8q1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104117
On 18/02/2017 03:18, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 02/18/17 01:45 PM, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:23:43 +1300
>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In this instance no liberty is being surrendered.
>>
>> I agree nobody is forced to implement annex K in a C11 conforming
>> compiler.
>
> I wasn't really considering annex K in of C11 when it comes to adding
> safety features, I was thinking of the bits of C++ that allow one to
> write safer code.  I the Microsoft so called safe functions for be more
> of an unattached seat belt!
>
>> You should admit that whatever security features you can provide to
>> programmers, bad behaviors hurt in programs and in life in general. These
>> security features looks like magic pills to cure fat people without
>> teaching
>> them how to feed in a healthy manner their body. Once more, hiding
>> bugs under
>> the carpet makes their correction more difficult.
>
> If then language stops me mixing apples and oranges or helps me to
> automate resource management, I'm all for it.

How does C++ manage that? Can it literally stop you mixing apples and 
oranges as easily as you can in Pascal or Ada?

-- 
Bartc

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#104135

FromDavid Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Date2017-02-18 13:25 +0100
Message-ID<o89ebo$p0l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#104132
On 18/02/17 12:33, BartC wrote:
> On 18/02/2017 03:18, Ian Collins wrote:
>> On 02/18/17 01:45 PM, GOTHIER Nathan wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:23:43 +1300
>>> Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In this instance no liberty is being surrendered.
>>>
>>> I agree nobody is forced to implement annex K in a C11 conforming
>>> compiler.
>>
>> I wasn't really considering annex K in of C11 when it comes to adding
>> safety features, I was thinking of the bits of C++ that allow one to
>> write safer code.  I the Microsoft so called safe functions for be more
>> of an unattached seat belt!
>>
>>> You should admit that whatever security features you can provide to
>>> programmers, bad behaviors hurt in programs and in life in general.
>>> These
>>> security features looks like magic pills to cure fat people without
>>> teaching
>>> them how to feed in a healthy manner their body. Once more, hiding
>>> bugs under
>>> the carpet makes their correction more difficult.
>>
>> If then language stops me mixing apples and oranges or helps me to
>> automate resource management, I'm all for it.
>
> How does C++ manage that? Can it literally stop you mixing apples and
> oranges as easily as you can in Pascal or Ada?
>

Since we are talking about programming languages, we cannot possibly be 
"literally" mixing apples and oranges.  But you are not the first person 
to misuse the word "literally".

Here is a quick example - real life C++ code would probably use 
templates to avoid duplication when creating a variety of fruit, and may 
allow more advanced things like Richard's fruit salads.  But it shows 
the point:

class apples {
   int x;
public:
   apples(int y = 0) : x(y) {}
   apples operator + (apples y) { return x + y.x; }
};

class oranges {
   int x;
public:
   oranges(int y = 0) : x(y) {}
   oranges operator + (oranges y) { return x + y.x; }
};

apples addApples(apples a, apples b) {
   return a + b;
}

oranges addOranges(oranges a, oranges b) {
   return a + b;
}

apples mix(apples a, oranges b) {
   return a + b;
   // ERROR!! no match for "operator + "
}


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