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Groups > comp.lang.c > #63278 > unrolled thread

typedef forward declaration

Started byBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
First post2015-06-15 14:08 +0100
Last post2015-07-14 13:14 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 442 — 31 participants

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  typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 14:08 +0100
    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 14:23 +0100
      Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 09:30 -0700
        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 18:01 +0100
          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 09:44 -0700
            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 18:06 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:22 +0100
              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:33 +0100
                Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-16 14:53 -0400
                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 09:54 -0700
                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-17 11:04 -0700
                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 11:11 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-18 12:00 -0700
                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 09:50 -0700
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 18:02 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 10:25 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 20:10 +0100
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 18:11 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 10:40 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 18:58 +0100
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 11:35 -0700
                              Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 12:31 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-18 20:47 +0100
                        Re: typedef forward declaration mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2015-06-19 03:35 -0700
                      Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 17:23 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 09:46 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-06-17 10:34 -0700
                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:43 -0700
                    Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-18 16:00 +0100
                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 08:52 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-19 10:21 +0200
                          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-19 11:35 +0100
                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 05:34 -0700
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 13:45 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 06:23 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 15:55 +0100
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 08:06 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 16:14 +0100
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 08:41 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-19 17:19 +0100
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-19 21:02 -0400
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 18:57 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 00:59 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-20 17:25 +0200
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-21 12:04 +0000
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-21 13:07 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-23 13:08 +0000
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-10 17:36 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 01:00 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 08:40 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 08:54 +0000
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:06 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 10:46 +0100
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 03:16 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-20 09:01 -0400
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 15:44 +0100
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 12:08 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-21 21:02 +0100
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-21 21:24 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-21 22:41 +0100
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 00:08 +0100
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:43 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-06-22 08:14 -0500
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 07:13 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 16:28 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 08:47 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 17:25 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-22 18:23 +0100
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:11 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 10:50 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:23 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-22 14:38 -0500
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 10:35 -0700
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 11:31 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 12:36 -0700
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 12:47 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 21:02 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-23 13:04 +0000
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 06:13 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-23 15:26 +0100
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 07:31 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 07:39 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 14:38 +0100
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-24 09:19 +0000
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 13:14 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-22 20:29 +0000
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-06-23 12:31 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 12:40 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration crisdunbar@gmail.com - 2015-06-23 12:48 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 13:04 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 21:08 +0100
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 14:05 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 06:26 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 08:47 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-19 17:19 +0100
                                Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 08:59 +0000
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:10 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-20 17:34 +0200
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:42 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:50 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-20 16:59 +0000
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-20 18:40 +0100
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 12:21 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-20 21:31 +0100
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 14:07 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:20 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-22 13:38 +0100
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:45 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 08:49 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 08:54 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 16:54 +0100
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 09:02 -0700
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 21:33 +0100
                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 10:00 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-19 22:33 -0500
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 07:50 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:12 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-20 15:30 +0000
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 08:40 -0700
                            Re: typedef forward declaration Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2015-06-19 10:10 -0700
                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 12:58 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-19 21:30 +0100
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 13:34 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 14:56 -0700
                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 13:45 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-19 16:26 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-20 12:26 +1200
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 00:40 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-20 20:05 +1200
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 01:17 -0700
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-19 17:52 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-20 01:12 +0000
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-19 22:35 -0500
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 00:55 -0700
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 10:27 +0100
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:31 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-20 15:45 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-22 15:13 -0400
                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-20 11:56 -0700
                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 05:36 -0700
                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 17:12 +0100
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 09:25 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 17:54 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 10:58 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:39 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-22 13:59 -0500
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 10:37 +0200
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 11:01 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 09:02 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 09:44 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-12 19:42 +0100
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 11:47 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-12 21:21 +0200
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 13:32 -0700
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-13 09:03 +0200
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 03:13 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-12 21:53 +0100
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 14:05 -0700
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 14:30 -0700
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-13 00:52 +0100
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-07-12 20:57 -0400
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-12 22:52 +0100
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 16:56 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 13:22 +1200
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:05 +1200
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-12 19:04 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-13 20:28 +1200
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-13 09:45 +0100
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 03:01 -0700
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-13 11:01 +0100
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 03:19 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-13 19:56 +0000
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 08:27 -0400
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:01 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-07-13 18:38 +0100
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-13 12:20 -0700
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-07-14 11:15 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 08:57 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 23:25 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-15 12:59 -0400
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-07-20 17:32 +0200
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 07:22 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-07-13 11:58 -0400
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 10:06 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 05:24 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-07-13 19:49 +0200
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 08:08 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 08:32 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:12 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 20:21 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:15 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 12:14 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 12:17 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 20:54 +0100
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 13:16 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 13:59 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 22:36 +0100
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 14:38 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 06:00 -0700
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 14:37 +0100
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 16:40 +0200
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 16:14 +0100
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 22:51 +0200
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 22:06 +0100
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-24 00:14 +0000
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-24 01:17 +0100
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-24 05:18 +0000
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-24 09:35 +0100
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-24 10:43 +0100
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 11:19 -0400
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-14 07:20 -0700
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-14 17:55 +0000
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 20:06 -0700
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-07-15 23:28 -0500
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 22:06 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-20 09:42 -0700
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:16 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:27 -0700
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:38 -0700
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:55 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-25 21:22 -0500
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 10:41 +0000
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 03:52 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 22:57 +0200
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:52 -0700
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-24 17:09 +0200
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 08:43 -0700
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 08:47 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-24 23:01 +0200
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 17:13 -0400
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-24 23:40 +0100
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-06-24 21:38 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-25 11:23 +0100
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 11:36 +0100
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-25 11:55 +0100
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 00:46 +0200
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-06-25 01:47 +0200
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 05:53 -0700
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 20:24 -0400
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 10:00 +0200
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 05:51 -0700
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 14:15 +0100
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 07:54 -0700
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 08:08 -0700
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 16:21 +0100
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 17:46 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-25 18:16 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 19:55 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 11:02 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-25 18:30 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-25 12:54 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 11:01 +0200
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-25 18:03 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 18:27 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-25 10:30 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 10:35 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:43 +1200
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 11:26 +0200
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:45 +1200
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 14:51 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:57 +1200
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 15:01 -0700
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 17:24 +0200
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 08:30 -0700
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-25 16:35 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-25 20:05 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 11:09 -0700
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 11:19 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-25 20:04 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 11:42 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 05:01 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 14:11 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 05:26 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-27 22:01 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-27 20:46 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-27 16:37 -0500
                                                                                                            [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-26 14:25 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 05:31 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-26 14:18 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 06:31 -0700
                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 08:20 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 08:24 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 10:24 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 10:30 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 13:40 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 14:09 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 14:23 -0700
                                                                                                                              Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 22:12 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 03:03 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-27 13:08 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-27 11:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-06-27 13:06 -0700
                                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:51 -0700
                                                                                                                                  Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:55 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 08:59 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-27 12:13 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-27 08:25 -0700
                                                                                                                        Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 08:43 -0700
                                                                                                                          Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-27 08:55 -0700
                                                                                                                            Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 09:10 -0700
                                                                                                                      Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-27 11:25 -0700
                                                                                                              Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-26 08:56 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: [OT] was Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-27 22:05 +0200
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-25 12:46 -0400
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 10:00 -0700
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 10:58 +0000
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 04:03 -0700
                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 12:43 +0100
                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 06:05 -0700
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 06:33 -0700
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 18:28 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 10:42 -0700
                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 18:17 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 10:32 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-28 20:53 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 17:53 -0700
                                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 12:10 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 04:59 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 14:21 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 06:40 -0700
                                                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 17:38 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 10:44 -0700
                                                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-29 22:10 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-29 15:09 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-28 11:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 10:43 +0000
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-29 08:50 +0200
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-27 12:32 -0400
                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-23 13:17 -0400
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-23 13:20 -0400
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 10:25 -0700
                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-24 09:51 +0200
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 12:05 -0400
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 10:43 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-27 12:18 +0000
                                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 05:26 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-27 14:11 +0100
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 06:38 -0700
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-27 13:55 +0000
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:15 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 07:34 -0700
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-27 15:56 +0100
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 08:13 -0700
                                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-27 21:35 +0100
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-27 18:58 +0000
                                                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 12:35 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-06-27 13:21 -0400
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 11:34 -0700
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-27 12:07 -0700
                                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-28 11:02 +0000
                                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 06:12 -0700
                                                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-07-03 17:25 +0000
                                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-24 11:51 -0700
                                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 15:17 -0400
                                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-24 12:31 -0400
                                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-23 21:11 +0200
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 20:22 +0100
                                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 12:39 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-23 01:51 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-22 19:55 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam> - 2015-06-22 22:51 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 02:57 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 11:08 +0100
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 00:00 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 09:40 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 11:03 +0200
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 06:06 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 14:45 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-11 11:33 -0700
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-23 15:15 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 15:23 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 07:23 -0700
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 15:50 +0100
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 16:51 +0200
                                              Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 10:53 -0700
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-22 19:26 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-23 13:37 +0000
                                                    Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 07:53 -0700
                                                      Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 17:04 +0200
                                                        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 16:24 +0100
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 08:44 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:01 -0700
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-23 15:22 -0700
                                                              Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:56 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 08:00 -0700
                                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-24 08:26 -0700
                                                          Re: typedef forward declaration David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-23 23:06 +0200
                                                            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-23 22:20 +0100
                                                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-22 21:18 +0100
                                                  Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-22 14:21 -0700
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-20 10:30 +0100
                                    Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 09:08 +0000
                                      Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 02:14 -0700
                                  Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-20 09:08 +0000
                  Re: typedef forward declaration David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:52 -0700
                    Re: typedef forward declaration Dr Nick <nospam-4@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2015-06-17 19:52 +0100
                  Re: typedef forward declaration James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-17 15:32 -0400
                Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-17 19:58 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-15 20:02 +0100
      Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 17:40 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 17:57 +0100
          Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 18:37 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 18:44 +0100
              Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-15 19:39 +0100
                Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 19:45 +0100
          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-15 20:31 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-15 13:29 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 19:09 -0700
            Re: typedef forward declaration Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-06-15 18:10 -0600
              Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-16 00:30 +0000
                Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-15 17:41 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-06-15 20:58 -0600
            Re: typedef forward declaration Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-16 09:43 +0100
              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 12:27 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-06-16 09:20 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:18 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-15 10:13 -0700
          Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 18:24 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-18 21:47 +0000
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 06:24 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration Lőrinczy Zsigmond <nospam@for.me> - 2015-06-15 21:20 +0200
    Re: typedef forward declaration luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2015-06-15 18:08 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:18 -0700
      Re: typedef forward declaration Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2015-06-26 18:46 +0200
        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 10:28 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 05:34 -0700
      Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-13 21:40 +0100
        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 09:27 -0700
          Re: typedef forward declaration Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-07-14 20:11 +0100
            Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 12:20 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 12:50 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-14 16:56 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 17:16 -0700
                  Re: typedef forward declaration Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-07-15 01:28 +0100
                    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 04:38 -0700
                      Re: typedef forward declaration Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-07-15 08:54 -0700
                        Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-15 08:57 -0700
              Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-14 17:03 -0700
                Re: typedef forward declaration glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-07-15 05:10 +0000
                  Re: typedef forward declaration Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-07-14 22:59 -0700
    Re: typedef forward declaration "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-14 13:14 -0700

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#65466

FromRichard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org>
Date2015-07-12 20:57 -0400
Message-ID<A1Eox.77613$gG6.64190@fx31.iad>
In reply to#65456
On 7/12/15 5:30 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>
> If I'm going to limit myself to the C defined maximum, then there is
> still an issue involved because when I go to save a value that will
> fit in 16 bits, it may not be saved as 16 bits on disk, but because
> int on this particular machine is mechanically represented by 36 bits,
> now I'm writing 20 extra bits per value, which when I read it in on
> the next computer, will fail unless it happens to also use the 36 bit
> format.
If you want to write portable data, it either needs to be transmitted as 
'textual' data (and apply character set conversions of the data if 
needed, ie between ASCII and EBCDIC), or using a portable format, which 
will define the data format in terms of fundamental units (like octets). 
There may still need to be a conversion applied when moving from one 
machine to another as not all machine write data fundamentally in octets 
(if it doesn't have an 8 bit byte).

Note that in C, I/O is fundamentally defined in terms of 'bytes' (aka 
char) and not anything bigger, like an int. Writing bigger units and 
expecting them to be 'portable' is foolish. A major intent of the C 
language is to be able to naturally write efficient code, which means 
using the machines native formats. This means that the naive method of 
just sending items other that bytes doesn't work if you need portable 
files (but is fine for local use).

Note that it is MUCH easier to write a layer to make the C efficient 
processing create portable files, then it would be to take a mythical 
'Portable C' (where types are defined to be the same on all 
implementations) efficient. If you want to be able to assume some base 
common properties of the machine, and they make the program 
significantly simpler, then do so, and just document that the program 
only works on machines that meet certain requirement. (Like what POSIX 
effectively does). This is not a sin. To paraphrase a statement, you 
want to make you programs as portable as needed and possible, but no 
more than that. Make it portable over the expected environments, avoid 
using gratuitous non-portable constructs, but don't go to extreme 
measures that make your code more complicated than needed. For example, 
making the assumption of 8 bit bytes or 2's complement notation may be 
reasonable in many cases. (Endian assumptions when creating portable 
files is less so, as it isn't that hard to have an endian correction 
layer,)

> Do you see what I'm talking about, Ben?  I may not be saying it in
> the proper words as per your usage, or even the industry standard
> usage, but surely you can compensate for my shortcomings in this area
> and understand the point I'm trying to make?
>
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin
>

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#65460

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2015-07-12 22:52 +0100
Message-ID<87380toxg9.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#65452
"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> Int it is not finite.

You mean int of course (C is case sensitive), but int is a type.  In so
far as types represent sets of values, int is always a finite type.  The
range of values an int object can represent is finite.

> It has a minimum value that
> is known, but no upper value that is known (apart
> from examination of min/max constants, and
> those can vary between compiler versions, or
> machines, etc.).

That's wrong, but only because you are using words wrongly.  I am sure
you mean something correct by those words.

> But if I'm writing portable C
> code, I cannot use int beyond its mins/maxs.

Indeed.

> It is only finite within the confines and encapsulation
> of the machine, or within the general guidance
> that there just aren't generally machines larger
> than 64 bits.

There's that word again!  The set of values from which the range of int
objects is drawn is an infinite set.  The range of any int object is
finite.  I don't believe you think any of my remarks are incorrect.  You
just want to re-phrase them in what I see and, at best, a confusing way.

-- 
Ben.

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#65465

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 16:56 -0700
Message-ID<f4e6154a-b411-42d0-a303-f1c5035ff4ec@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65460
On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 5:52:46 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Int it is not finite.
>
> You mean int of course (C is case sensitive), but int is a type.

This right here is why we cannot have any kind of discussion.

It makes me sad that you (and Ian) are this way.  There is so much
that is being lost between us over these types of semantics.  It is
doing nothing to increase either of us in knowledge or experience,
but is designed solely to place additional distances between us.

It makes me sad that in this forum we must live at this place where
these types of barriers are artificially erected because there are
people who remain absolutely unwilling to move the slightest bit to
meet another person where they may be, inferior to your knowledge,
or to meet them on occasion when they make this kind of simple mistake.

It's so unnecessary to be that way.  And it makes me sad to such an
extent that we must live at this place.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65467

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 13:22 +1200
Message-ID<d0gi5uFmf76U7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#65465
Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 5:52:46 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Int it is not finite.
>>
>> You mean int of course (C is case sensitive), but int is a type.
>
> This right here is why we cannot have any kind of discussion.
>
> It makes me sad that you (and Ian) are this way.  There is so much
> that is being lost between us over these types of semantics.  It is
> doing nothing to increase either of us in knowledge or experience,
> but is designed solely to place additional distances between us.

If you re-read what I wrote, semantics were not the issue.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#65462

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 10:05 +1200
Message-ID<d0g6m6Fmf76U6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#65452
Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Int it is not finite. It has a minimum value that
> is known, but no upper value that is known...

Assuming you mean "int", then you are wrong again.  In C  int is signed, 
so if you don't know the upper value, you also don't know the minimum value

-- 
Ian Collins

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#65468

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-12 19:04 -0700
Message-ID<ad2232a4-49db-478e-b4a9-634f06a74056@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65462
Ian Collins wrote:
> Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> > Int it is not finite. It has a (1)minimum value
> > that is known, but no (2)upper value that is
> > known...
>
> Assuming you mean "int", then you are wrong
> again. In C int is signed, so if you don't know
> the upper value, you also don't know the
> minimum value.

(1) -32768 to +32768
(2) The actual maximum range as per implementation
    on the machine hardware.

The (2) value could be about +/- 2^31, +/- 2^63,
+/- 2^35, +/- 2^19, +/- 2^15, or other value.

It is not known.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65470

FromIan Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 20:28 +1200
Message-ID<d0hb6bFflldU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#65468
Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Ian Collins wrote:
>> Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> Int it is not finite. It has a (1)minimum value
>>> that is known, but no (2)upper value that is
>>> known...
>>
>> Assuming you mean "int", then you are wrong
>> again. In C int is signed, so if you don't know
>> the upper value, you also don't know the
>> minimum value.
>
> (1) -32768 to +32768
> (2) The actual maximum range as per implementation
>      on the machine hardware.
>
> The (2) value could be about +/- 2^31, +/- 2^63,
> +/- 2^35, +/- 2^19, +/- 2^15, or other value.
>
> It is not known.

So there we go, Ben was right to quibble about your imprecise language. 
  You are discussing the range of int, not it's value.  That being true, 
Ben was correct when he said the size of a C int is always finite while 
the the set of possible sizes for an int is not.

-- 
Ian Collins

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#65471

FromBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2015-07-13 09:45 +0100
Message-ID<mnvtou$5ua$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#65468
On 13/07/2015 03:04, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> Ian Collins wrote:
>> Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> Int it is not finite. It has a (1)minimum value
>>> that is known, but no (2)upper value that is
>>> known...
>>
>> Assuming you mean "int", then you are wrong
>> again. In C int is signed, so if you don't know
>> the upper value, you also don't know the
>> minimum value.
>
> (1) -32768 to +32768

It's usually +32767

-- 
Bartc

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#65472

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 03:01 -0700
Message-ID<d3fe793b-6f76-4541-b763-64a1e238bf68@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65471
Bartc wrote:
> > (1) -32768 to +32768
>
> It's usually +32767.

You are correct, Bart. My mistake. Thank you for
correcting me.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65473

FromBen Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Date2015-07-13 11:01 +0100
Message-ID<87r3ocnzp2.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
In reply to#65471
Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 13/07/2015 03:04, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> Ian Collins wrote:
>>> Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>>> Int it is not finite. It has a (1)minimum value
>>>> that is known, but no (2)upper value that is
>>>> known...
>>>
>>> Assuming you mean "int", then you are wrong
>>> again. In C int is signed, so if you don't know
>>> the upper value, you also don't know the
>>> minimum value.
>>
>> (1) -32768 to +32768
>
> It's usually +32767

Rick is talking about the guaranteed range and that's -32767 to +32767.

-- 
Ben.

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#65475

From"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 03:19 -0700
Message-ID<01df48ae-2509-4699-bb14-2d7828f7d881@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65473
Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> Rick is talking about the guaranteed range
> and that's -32767 to +32767.

Now that I did not know. I thought it was:

    -(2^(n-1)) to +(2^(n-1))-1; where n = 16, 32, 64, ...

Thank you for correcting / educating me.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

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#65517

Fromglen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Date2015-07-13 19:56 +0000
Message-ID<mo154g$9g2$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#65475
Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Rick is talking about the guaranteed range
>> and that's -32767 to +32767.
 
> Now that I did not know. I thought it was:
 
>    -(2^(n-1)) to +(2^(n-1))-1; where n = 16, 32, 64, ...
 
> Thank you for correcting / educating me.

C allows for ones complement and sign magnitude machines. 

The IBM 7090 and 7094 are 36 bit machines, but integer arithetic
is sign magnitude 16 bits in that 3 bit word.

The original Fortran compiler allowed statement numbers up to 32767.
It was later increaed to 99999, but the five columns remained.

As far as I know, there are no C compilers for the 7094.

-- glen

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#65479

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2015-07-13 08:27 -0400
Message-ID<mo0ap8$gni$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#65414
On 07/12/2015 12:02 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
...
> I think I qualify as a mathematician - I have a doctorate and a 
> couple of publications - even if I have drifted away these days.
...
> not finite "infinite" and I believe they would not make any 
> distinction between unbounded and infinite.

I don't have your credentials. My most advanced credential is a
Certificate in Applied Mathematics from Cambridge, roughly equivalent to
an MS in mathematical physics in the US. The most advanced math I
remember studying includes differential geometry, symplectic geometry,
and advanced group theory.

However, I did study enough math to be quite certain that mathematicians
do make a distinction between sets that are infinite in size and sets
that are unbounded. Finite but unbounded sets are of considerable
importance in theoretical physics. I took classes that talked about such
stuff during my Junior year at Caltech.

The simplest such set I can think of is a simple closed curve of finite
length embedded in a two-dimensional space. It is, in itself, a
one-dimensional set, and you can travel around that set in either
direction, going as far as you like, without ever reaching the boundary
of the set, but eventually you end up right back to where you started.
So it is unbounded, but finite.

Some people get confused by this example, saying "What do you mean it
doesn't have a boundary. It IS a boundary!" And they're correct - there
is an open set of points which are inside that curve, and that curve is
the boundary of that open set. However, one of the most important things
I learned in point set topology is "The boundary of a boundary is 0".
Precisely because the closed curve IS the boundary of that open set, it
does not, itself, have a boundary.

Topologically, that set is equivalent to U(1), the space of unitary
1-dimensional matrices, a very important set in quantum mechanics. It
can be represented as a circle in the complex plane. U(N) is finite in
size, but unbounded, for all values of N.

Another topologically equivalent set would be a line segment, with the
two ends identified. "identified" means that if you start at the left
end of the line segment, and move left, you end up on the right end of
the line segment. If you start at the right end, and move right, you end
up at the left end. This is, again, a set of finite length, but no
boundaries.

If you take the outer product of three such sets, you describe a cube
with the property that whenever you reach one face of the cube, and keep
moving perpendicular to that face, you end up on the opposite face of
the cube. I attended a lecture once which seriously considered the
possibility that the entire universe has such a structure. It turns out
that General Relativity has no trouble dealing with such a universe - it
evolves pretty much the same way as the conventional Big Bang model for
a flat universe. From the inside, such a universe would appear to be
spatially periodic, with the period being the size of the cube. However,
since the farther away we look, the farther back in time we're looking,
it could be very hard to detect the periodicity if the cube is
sufficiently large. The speaker described the analysis his group had
performed, looking at images of distant galaxies for any such
periodicity. Note that the repeating structure needn't be a cube. Any
shape that can be used to tile 3-dimensional flat space works. They
didn't find anything, but the fact that they didn't find anything can be
used to set a lower limit on the size of any periodic structure in the
universe. That limit was somewhat smaller than the size of the entire
observable universe, but only by a factor of about 2.
-- 
James Kuyper

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#65495

FromDavid Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 10:01 -0700
Message-ID<ebe2ddfa-75a0-4b16-9cfb-bc4a2188151a@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65479
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 5:27:52 AM UTC-7, James Kuyper wrote:
> On 07/12/2015 12:02 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> ...
> > I think I qualify as a mathematician - I have a doctorate and a 
> > couple of publications - even if I have drifted away these days.
> ...
> > not finite "infinite" and I believe they would not make any 
> > distinction between unbounded and infinite.
> 
> I don't have your credentials. My most advanced credential is a
> Certificate in Applied Mathematics from Cambridge, roughly equivalent to
> an MS in mathematical physics in the US. The most advanced math I
> remember studying includes differential geometry, symplectic geometry,
> and advanced group theory.
> 
> However, I did study enough math to be quite certain that mathematicians
> do make a distinction between sets that are infinite in size and sets
> that are unbounded. Finite but unbounded sets are of considerable
> importance in theoretical physics. 

That feels very odd to me. Like everything else in mathematics it 
depends on your definitions. To me "finite but unbounded" is 
meaningless (and I am glad you say it is used in physics).

> I took classes that talked about such stuff during my Junior year 
> at Caltech.
> 
> The simplest such set I can think of is a simple closed curve of finite
> length embedded in a two-dimensional space. It is, in itself, a
> one-dimensional set, and you can travel around that set in either
> direction, going as far as you like, without ever reaching the boundary
> of the set, but eventually you end up right back to where you started.
> So it is unbounded, but finite.

I do not understand what "it" means in your conclusion. The only thing
you have said is finite is the length of the curve. And the length isn't
even variable much less unbounded.

> Some people get confused by this example, saying "What do you mean it
> doesn't have a boundary. It IS a boundary!" And they're correct - there
> is an open set of points which are inside that curve, and that curve is
> the boundary of that open set. However, one of the most important things
> I learned in point set topology is "The boundary of a boundary is 0".
> Precisely because the closed curve IS the boundary of that open set, it
> does not, itself, have a boundary.
> 
> Topologically, that set is equivalent to U(1), the space of unitary
> 1-dimensional matrices, a very important set in quantum mechanics. It
> can be represented as a circle in the complex plane. U(N) is finite in
> size, but unbounded, for all values of N.
 
It seems to me that you want to say  U(N) is finite but the size of
U(N) is unbounded (with unbounded as N inceases understood). This usage 
of "unbounded" is common parlance. And I suppose sloppy speech (common
among physicists) might lead them to say U(N) is unbounded in this
context. Perhaps a mathematician might get careless enough to say it -
but (s)he would know better.

> Another topologically equivalent set would be a line segment, with the
> two ends identified. "identified" means that if you start at the left
> end of the line segment, and move left, you end up on the right end of
> the line segment. If you start at the right end, and move right, you end
> up at the left end. This is, again, a set of finite length, but no
> boundaries.

Oh my God, someone taught you to use "unbounded" to mean not having
a topological bound. I have never encountered that usage. So maybe I
was wrong about mathematical usage. But unboundaried has no a priori 
relation to finiteness. Apples and Oranges.

> If you take the outer product of three such sets, you describe a cube
> with the property that whenever you reach one face of the cube, and keep
> moving perpendicular to that face, you end up on the opposite face of
> the cube. I attended a lecture once which seriously considered the
> possibility that the entire universe has such a structure. It turns out
> that General Relativity has no trouble dealing with such a universe - it
> evolves pretty much the same way as the conventional Big Bang model for
> a flat universe. From the inside, such a universe would appear to be
> spatially periodic, with the period being the size of the cube. However,
> since the farther away we look, the farther back in time we're looking,
> it could be very hard to detect the periodicity if the cube is
> sufficiently large. The speaker described the analysis his group had
> performed, looking at images of distant galaxies for any such
> periodicity. Note that the repeating structure needn't be a cube. Any
> shape that can be used to tile 3-dimensional flat space works. They
> didn't find anything, but the fact that they didn't find anything can be
> used to set a lower limit on the size of any periodic structure in the
> universe. That limit was somewhat smaller than the size of the entire
> observable universe, but only by a factor of about 2.

This is relatively well-known stuff. The cosmologists have lots of
fun. Science fiction writers have been playing with it since the 1940's.

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#65501

FromBartc <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2015-07-13 18:38 +0100
Message-ID<mo0svl$pca$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#65495
On 13/07/2015 18:01, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 5:27:52 AM UTC-7, James Kuyper wrote:
>> On 07/12/2015 12:02 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
>> ...
>>> I think I qualify as a mathematician - I have a doctorate and a
>>> couple of publications - even if I have drifted away these days.
>> ...
>>> not finite "infinite" and I believe they would not make any
>>> distinction between unbounded and infinite.
>>
>> I don't have your credentials. My most advanced credential is a
>> Certificate in Applied Mathematics from Cambridge, roughly equivalent to
>> an MS in mathematical physics in the US. The most advanced math I
>> remember studying includes differential geometry, symplectic geometry,
>> and advanced group theory.
>>
>> However, I did study enough math to be quite certain that mathematicians
>> do make a distinction between sets that are infinite in size and sets
>> that are unbounded. Finite but unbounded sets are of considerable
>> importance in theoretical physics.
>
> That feels very odd to me. Like everything else in mathematics it
> depends on your definitions. To me "finite but unbounded" is
> meaningless (and I am glad you say it is used in physics).

The surface of a sphere is finite but unbounded.

-- 
Bartc

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#65513

FromKeith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Date2015-07-13 12:20 -0700
Message-ID<lnvbdnlv9n.fsf@kst-u.example.com>
In reply to#65501
Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
[...]
> The surface of a sphere is finite but unbounded.

That depends.  If considered as an area, it's finite.  If considered as
a set of points, it has infinitely many points.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#65575

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <nospam@nospam.nospam>
Date2015-07-14 11:15 -0700
Message-ID<mo3jku$csb$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#65513
> "Keith Thompson"  wrote in message 
> news:lnvbdnlv9n.fsf@kst-u.example.com...

> > Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
[...]
> > The surface of a sphere is finite but unbounded.

> That depends.  If considered as an area, it's finite.  If considered as
> a set of points, it has infinitely many points.

I do not know if this is particularly relevant to the discussion but a 
fractal like
the von Koch star has an infinite perimeter, yet a finite area.

I personally find that to be a fairly interesting property.

:^) 

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#65557

FromDavid Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-14 08:57 -0700
Message-ID<95b341cf-81aa-446b-b882-0a46a2c160b3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65501
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 10:38:28 AM UTC-7, Bart wrote:
> On 13/07/2015 18:01, David Kleinecke wrote:
> > On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 5:27:52 AM UTC-7, James Kuyper wrote:
> >> On 07/12/2015 12:02 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> >> ...
> >>> I think I qualify as a mathematician - I have a doctorate and a
> >>> couple of publications - even if I have drifted away these days.
> >> ...
> >>> not finite "infinite" and I believe they would not make any
> >>> distinction between unbounded and infinite.
> >>
> >> I don't have your credentials. My most advanced credential is a
> >> Certificate in Applied Mathematics from Cambridge, roughly equivalent to
> >> an MS in mathematical physics in the US. The most advanced math I
> >> remember studying includes differential geometry, symplectic geometry,
> >> and advanced group theory.
> >>
> >> However, I did study enough math to be quite certain that mathematicians
> >> do make a distinction between sets that are infinite in size and sets
> >> that are unbounded. Finite but unbounded sets are of considerable
> >> importance in theoretical physics.
> >
> > That feels very odd to me. Like everything else in mathematics it
> > depends on your definitions. To me "finite but unbounded" is
> > meaningless (and I am glad you say it is used in physics).
> 
> The surface of a sphere is finite but unbounded.
 
As elsewhere that is not the same unbounded. The use of "unbounded"
to mean "without a boundary" is new to me.

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#65540

Fromluser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com>
Date2015-07-13 23:25 -0700
Message-ID<938aca60-b9af-4528-9aec-386388576f63@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#65495
On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:02:07 PM UTC-5, David Kleinecke wrote:
> 
> This is relatively well-known stuff. The cosmologists have lots of
> fun. Science fiction writers have been playing with it since the 1940's.

Unless you consider stuff like Plato's Critias and Timaeus.

The Ouspensky/Gurdjieff tradition considers a cosmos to
be a periodic "shape" of 8 or 9 dimensions.

existence |- time-like
eternity
duration
length  |- space-like
width
depth
+lower three |- etheric/electrical

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#65635

FromJames Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net>
Date2015-07-15 12:59 -0400
Message-ID<55A6915B.2010707@verizon.net>
In reply to#65495
On 07/13/2015 01:01 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 5:27:52 AM UTC-7, James Kuyper wrote:
...
>> The simplest such set I can think of is a simple closed curve of finite
>> length embedded in a two-dimensional space. It is, in itself, a
>> one-dimensional set, and you can travel around that set in either
>> direction, going as far as you like, without ever reaching the boundary
>> of the set, but eventually you end up right back to where you started.
>> So it is unbounded, but finite.
> 
> I do not understand what "it" means in your conclusion. The only thing
> you have said is finite is the length of the curve. And the length isn't
> even variable much less unbounded.

"it" refers to the set. Not the size of the set, but the set itself.
"unbounded" in this context means that the set has no boundaries.

>> Some people get confused by this example, saying "What do you mean it
>> doesn't have a boundary. It IS a boundary!" And they're correct - there
>> is an open set of points which are inside that curve, and that curve is
>> the boundary of that open set. However, one of the most important things
>> I learned in point set topology is "The boundary of a boundary is 0".
>> Precisely because the closed curve IS the boundary of that open set, it
>> does not, itself, have a boundary.
>>
>> Topologically, that set is equivalent to U(1), the space of unitary
>> 1-dimensional matrices, a very important set in quantum mechanics. It
>> can be represented as a circle in the complex plane. U(N) is finite in
>> size, but unbounded, for all values of N.
>  
> It seems to me that you want to say  U(N) is finite but the size of
> U(N) is unbounded (with unbounded as N inceases understood).

No, as I very explicitly said above, its size is finite. Its size is
therefore also bounded, in the sense that you're using the term. What I
meant is that the set U(N) has no boundaries.

>> Another topologically equivalent set would be a line segment, with the
>> two ends identified. "identified" means that if you start at the left
>> end of the line segment, and move left, you end up on the right end of
>> the line segment. If you start at the right end, and move right, you end
>> up at the left end. This is, again, a set of finite length, but no
>> boundaries.
> 
> Oh my God, someone taught you to use "unbounded" to mean not having
> a topological bound. I have never encountered that usage.

It never occurred to me that this usage might be problematic, since it's
ubiquitous in the contexts where I first learned it. I've been searching
the web for mathematical citations to back up that usage, without
success. However, I have at least found evidence that I'm in good
company among physicists in using the term that way:
<http://www.bartleby.com/173/31.html>. For obvious reasons, that usage
has been very influential on other physicists, regardless of what a
mathematician might think of it.

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